2017 NAPLEX results: bad, real bad

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I had no idea that there was anything called an Angora rabbit and certainly never realized that the profile pic and username were related. And if anyone should know about different kinds of rabbits I think it is me!
 
Ten years ago, you would never see a school with a pass rate for the NAPLEX or MPJE below 90%...now it seems rare to be above 90%.
 
Naplex is a joke with minimum score of 75. I mean if everyone getting 130-140+ score on first try they need to make it even harder...
 
This is just a guess, but I bet that with PCOM-GA being the most recently-opened pharmacy school in GA, they could be the school that has tipped many of the job markets in GA "over the edge" into saturation territory. Then again, like you said, they don't accept nearly as many applicants per year as schools like Mercer and South. I had no idea that Mercer was graduating ~150 pharmacists every year. With their c/o 2016 NAPLEX pass rate being only 79%, I guess that means only 118 or 119 students actually entered the job market last year?

Personally, I think it's South. 3 year program and churns out a boatload of graduates. Mercer's pass rate is alarmingly surprising since they are held in such high regard in the south.
 
Even Minnesota (ranked #2 according to US news) had a big drop to high 80's. Glad the program I am in is consistently #1 in terms of pass rate haha, although its rankings aren't as high. The us news rankings are a joke, does not take any consideration of the quality of the education, but rather research. I see this pharm school bursting soon, U of A has already reduced its class size!
 
IMO, I blame schools mainly for students failing or passing. Period.

First of all, NAPLEX is not a joke, it is not what it used to be. I took the NAPLEX before Nov 2016 and I failed. Then, 3 months later I took the new NAPLEX and I killed it big time. How it is possible that a student that failed so bad the old "easier" NAPLEX, 3 months later kills the new, harder, and broader material test?. I did not do any special diet, my brain did not get larger, I wasn't feeling any sicker or healthier. The only thing I changed was how I approached the test and how I studied.

When I did rotations, I was fortunate to get to know lots of students from different schools here in FL, I noticed for instance how students from some schools were definitely better at clinical oriented material than others. I asked and noticed the way they take exams, approach classes, type of questions, materials used, didactic approaches, assignments, etc...it was clear they were doing stuff pretty different...Schools DO have a great idea in what it is going to be tested during the boards and they can tailor their students from day one to study in a way that can maximize that learning. So when those students approach the NAPLEX, there is a tendency to get higher rates of passing just by applying the methods/strategies/approaches taught/tested during 4 years. "It is easier to skate on ice when you have been rollerblading for many years. It is easier to ride a motorcycle when you have ridden a bicycle for many years...etc" There will be always outliers for "weak" or "strong" schools.

In my experience, NAPLEX is a a combination of random facts, clinical "must know stuff", and crazy stuff you wonder, "the heck they pulled that from", but you believe you were able to solve it because you knew the basics/principles.

However, the real problem is not the NAPLEX or MPJE. The real problem is... are students going to be able to land a job after all these mumble jumble? The answer is clearly. NO, NO, and NO. And this is where it gets extremely nasty. Racking thousand of dollars in debt after dealing with all these stuff and not be able to secure anything, it is not fair from any point where you see it.

Life has never been fair, never will, so pharmacy school is no different.
 
Do you blame your school for your failing and your passing?
Yes, I do blame it for my failing. Also, consider that I am an outlier. IMO, a student should not even need to buy or use a "NAPLEX review book" or method to pass this test. After spending thousands of dollars in tuition, it should be immediately understood that as soon as a student graduates then the test will be managable because you have been learning stuff for four years. That is not the case. The majority of students that did not use the "Review books" and relied on the 4 years of education alone that the school gave us. Failed.

I passed because I used those review books and other strategies not taught on school (thanks student doctor forum). I am not smart at all and I am way less intelligent/smart at taking exams than my Rho Chi and A+ friends that passed the NAPLEX just by studying 2 days before the exam. However, I managed to get significantly higher score than those super sharp students in the supposedly newer/harder/longer test. We might call it a flaw in the scoring, or whatever we could think of. But it is a fact.
 
Yes, I do blame it for my failing. Also, consider that I am an outlier. IMO, a student should not even need to buy or use a "NAPLEX review book" or method to pass this test. After spending thousands of dollars in tuition, it should be immediately understood that as soon as a student graduates then the test will be managable because you have been learning stuff for four years. That is not the case. The majority of students that did not use the "Review books" and relied on the 4 years of education alone that the school gave us. Failed.

I passed because I used those review books and other strategies not taught on school (thanks student doctor forum). I am not smart at all and I am way less intelligent/smart at taking exams than my Rho Chi and A+ friends that passed the NAPLEX just by studying 2 days before the exam. However, I managed to get significantly higher score than those super sharp students in the supposedly newer/harder/longer test. We might call it a flaw in the scoring, or whatever we could think of. But it is a fact.

My school just made us drop ~$300 on Rxprep materials for NAPLEX review. I get why they did but the fact that we only got a discount on the final cost instead of the school picking it up is bull**** to me.
 
Yes, I do blame it for my failing. Also, consider that I am an outlier. IMO, a student should not even need to buy or use a "NAPLEX review book" or method to pass this test. After spending thousands of dollars in tuition, it should be immediately understood that as soon as a student graduates then the test will be managable because you have been learning stuff for four years. That is not the case. The majority of students that did not use the "Review books" and relied on the 4 years of education alone that the school gave us. Failed.

I passed because I used those review books and other strategies not taught on school (thanks student doctor forum). I am not smart at all and I am way less intelligent/smart at taking exams than my Rho Chi and A+ friends that passed the NAPLEX just by studying 2 days before the exam. However, I managed to get significantly higher score than those super sharp students in the supposedly newer/harder/longer test. We might call it a flaw in the scoring, or whatever we could think of. But it is a fact.

I'm happy that you had the courage to say this. The NAPLEX has always been a minimal competency exam. It was never supposed to be the equivalence of a board certification test or anything, just a safety net to prove that your school has prepared you to be a baseline pharmacist that is ready for practice. That baseline expectation of pharmacists has grown over the years, and if the schools can't keep up or are admitting students that can't meet the standard.. then the students deserve failure (unfit to practice) and the schools deserve punitive action (unfit to teach). I'm happy that you were able to pass after studying, but ideally you never would have needed that second try. Really though, I don't think it's your fault. Looking at the latest NAPLEX stats shows that there is a systematic issue at play.
 
This guy's blog covers the topic well and I think he hits all the points as to why the scores are lower; test fatigue (250 questions), increased difficulty of content, lowering admission standards, etc. All of these things are contributing to the lower pass rate. He sums it up very well.

Source: https://www.meded101.com/wow-the-2016-naplex-pass-rate/
"The 2016 NAPLEX Pass Rate was posted a little while back. I wasn’t surprised by a drop in the pass rate for 2016. What I was surprised by was how BIG the drop in the NAPLEX pass rate was.

The NAPLEX has been getting a facelift over the last few years. I wrote a while back about the changes in the NAPLEX and gave you some speculation about what might happen and why changes were being made. You can go back and read that here if you are interested.

Back to the 2016 NAPLEX results. The drop from 2015 to 2016 was much bigger than I had thought it would be. I expected a decrease in pass rate, but not that big. I will focus on the first time attempts. The numbers:





      • 2014 NAPLEX pass rate 94.88% – very respectable
      • 2015 NAPLEX pass rate 92.64% – a drop, but not a crazy one
      • 2016 NAPLEX pass rate 85.86% – HARD TO IGNORE THAT DROP
Why did it drop so much? This obviously needs to be looked at closely.


    • The obvious answer and the one that the education community probably hopes is that the substantial drop in test scores is due to the change in the content of the test. Certainly could play a role, but that large of a drop?
    • Test fatigue. The number of questions on the NAPLEX is now up to 250 questions. That is a ton of content and when you are doing a significant number of case based questions as well as calculations, that makes that number feel even larger. Some students are better test takers than others, but 6 hours for an exam is a long time.
    • A larger concern for the profession of pharmacy; are schools accepting applicants that they likely wouldn’t have been accepted 10 years ago? Classrooms obviously have to be filled or at least close to filled for colleges of pharmacy to make it financially. Some maybe are, some maybe aren’t?
    • How much of an impact are the newer colleges of pharmacy? If you look at the numbers, there’s certainly an argument to be made.
    • Is information about the worsening job prospects for pharmacists trickling down to high quality students and leading students down the path of becoming NP’s, PA’s, or MD’s?
    • What was also a little alarming for the profession as a whole was that the number of 1st time students taking the exam. It has gone up by nearly 1,000 in just 2 years time".
 
It's the quality of students. This isn't hard to verify, many schools publish GPA, PCAT scores, etc. Midwestern Glendale used to boast avg PCAT scores of 88% back in 2009-10? The last year they published it was just above 70% and now they stopped publishing it altogether and so I assume the average is less than 70%. And to corroborate this, I met some very poor students who recently got interviews with a 35% PCAT.

Google some schools and search for class profile or class statistics. Some schools are very detailed with their info, I found one that showed a PCAT range of 16%-99% (avg in the 60's) -- I mean just wow!
 
Some schools are very detailed with their info, I found one that showed a PCAT range of 16%-99% (avg in the 60's) -- I mean just wow!

The average PCAT score across the country for students admitted to pharmacy school last year was around a 53.
Curb your outrage- that school with an average in the 60s is actually above average!
 
More on the PCAT: students with middling scores aren't taking the test a second time to improve their score, because what is an 'acceptable' score has dropped. Schools that are trying to hold the line on PCAT standards are losing out on applicants to schools who don't. A few schools have dropped the PCAT entirely; others still want you to take it, but don't appear to care how you perform.

Are pharmacy applicants actually less knowledgeable about the subject matter now than 5-10 years ago? Some are (it's undeniable). But many other intelligent applicants aren't being compelled to take the exam a second time, where a better result would be expected. In the past, they were compelled to do so- and most did. Now? Many would rather save the $200 they would have spent on the PCAT retake for something else.
 
You do know that the competencies for the 2016 test were changed, right? The goal of NABP was to not have as many people pass which is exactly what happened. The test was changed again in November of 2016 to not be adaptive.

People are always complaining about how there are too many pharmacists and when NAPB does something you are calling the schools and students dumb...

Can't it be both? I mean if larger programs like UF, Rutgers, PCOM and the California schools can continue to have 90%+ despite having 200 students in their classes then these other schools that have 60-80% should take another look at their teaching ability (school's stupid) or selection process (students are stupid). Massachusetts has schools with 270 students+ in each...with 60-70% pass rate...wtf....it's probably a combination of both...they have no business teaching a class of 270 students and their selection process sucks....

Hopefully these new stricter standards on the NAPLEX will put some of these low quality programs under scrutiny and force these schools to select better students or reduce class sizes to "meet" the numbers in terms of pass rate.
 
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When I was at Midwestern-Glendale this past fall for an interview, they shared that their average PCAT last year was 68%.
It's the quality of students. This isn't hard to verify, many schools publish GPA, PCAT scores, etc. Midwestern Glendale used to boast avg PCAT scores of 88% back in 2009-10? The last year they published it was just above 70% and now they stopped publishing it altogether and so I assume the average is less than 70%. And to corroborate this, I met some very poor students who recently got interviews with a 35% PCAT.

Google some schools and search for class profile or class statistics. Some schools are very detailed with their info, I found one that showed a PCAT range of 16%-99% (avg in the 60's) -- I mean just wow!
 
Student quality is the principal driver here. Either higher % of mediocre/bad students or similar % of mediocre/bad students compared to previous years and they can't clear a minimum competency exam that has a higher bar to clear now (more questions, retooling of content).

I went to MCPHS, which deserves to be sanctioned for its lax admission standards leading to the current situation... no, this program is not graduating any thought leaders but the education itself is not horrible. I mean, it's pharmacy... come on. Good students can still be successful in school and in their careers. However the bottom 20% of students are just terrible and remember there is a lot of attrition so those taking the NAPLEX are those that managed not to get weeded out.

Just look at CPJE results... CPJE didn't change. And again it is noteworthy that more CNUCOP students passed the CPJE in the most recent period than UCSF students. That's pathetic.
 
Naw, you missed it...the results are right...well, if you search on the NABP website for...wow, they are actually gone at the moment. That is interesting.

If this was done on purpose (it could very well be an incidental web glitch), I wouldn't wager that this was because the schools complained. NABP really doesn't seem to pay too much attention to what schools say.


Edited to fix a weekend brain fart...NABP has nothing to do with the PCOA.
 
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There are a few posts in this thread talking about the change in the test format, but I am pretty sure the test didn't change until last November. 2016 results and the decline since 2014 has very little to do with 2 months of test change and much more to do with ****ty curriculums and substandard students, imo.
 
You cannot honestly wish that kind of situation on another human being can you? At that point, one of the best choices is to literally commit suicide and that is a sickening thought.

I was told that there was a student from Appalachian College who killed himself in 2016 after failing the NAPLEX 5 times. Apparently his fiance dumped him after she realized the financial problems he had. He couldn't take it. It sounds like a terrible situation.
 
I don't know if I agree. Schools aren't omniscient, they will never be able to completely screen out people who can't pass the NAPLEX.

Regardless though, if the person can not pass they shouldn't be a pharmacist. You seem to think otherwise.

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I have no sympathy for these schools.

They absolutely know that a large proportion of their class will not pass the exam. I mean seriously, some schools have a ~40% failure rate. How could they NOT know?

Knowing that students will continue to fail, they remain hell bent on fulfilling those seats to meet budget expectations.

I've grown to absolutely despise academia.
 
I was told that there was a student from Appalachian College who killed himself in 2016 after failing the NAPLEX 5 times. Apparently his fiance dumped him after she realized the financial problems he had. He couldn't take it. It sounds like a terrible situation.

I thought it would be morbid given the topic matter to "like" your post despite agreeing for it. Thank you for sharing. This happens more often than one would think. I have heard stories of people cutting themselves and delving into all sorts of deleterious behavior in response.
 
I thought it would be morbid given the topic matter to "like" your post despite agreeing for it. Thank you for sharing. This happens more often than one would think. I have heard stories of people cutting themselves and delving into all sorts of deleterious behavior in response.

I could have sworn growing up that you could be anything you want as long as you try hard enough. Sad people are resorting to hurting themselves when life doesn't turn out they way they want it too. Assuming they studied this is a prime example of why tough admission standards are needed. Much less the ease it is to make life altering mistakes. I caught a mistake the other day for amlodipine that the tech inputted as amiodarone. Sure, aptitude isn't everything, but I would hate for someone without the aptitude be placed in a stressful environment and catch mistakes like that on a daily basis.
 
So what exactly happens to these students that fail the exam? Do most pass on second try? I wonder how many go to pharmacy school and never even practice as a pharmacist after failing the exam multiple times.
 
So what exactly happens to these students that fail the exam? Do most pass on second try? I wonder how many go to pharmacy school and never even practice as a pharmacist after failing the exam multiple times.
I know of a few people where this happened, but they were the exception. I know more people who failed out and never got a chance to take the NAPLEX.
 
I know a person who finished the Pharm D, failed the NAPLEX twice, and just gave up. She works a non-pharmacy job that pays $30k per year with $300k+ debt.
 
I know a person who finished the Pharm D, failed the NAPLEX twice, and just gave up. She works a non-pharmacy job that pays $30k per year with $300k+ debt.
Damn.. why not take a review course and try again? Don't you get five shots at it?
 
Damn.. why not take a review course and try again? Don't you get five shots at it?

You can take the NAPLEX up to five times. Most people would spend the time and review more than just give up.
 
I was told that there was a student from Appalachian College who killed himself in 2016 after failing the NAPLEX 5 times. Apparently his fiance dumped him after she realized the financial problems he had. He couldn't take it. It sounds like a terrible situation.

Girl who lived just a mile down the street from me killed herself after failing it on her first attempt like 5-10 years ago because she thought she was incompetent.
 
Graduates killing themselves out of despair is sad. You know these administrators don't care aside from possible bad publicity.
 
Graduates killing themselves out of despair is sad. You know these administrators don't care aside from possible bad publicity.

Not only do they not care, but I also think they're actively trying to suppress the spread of information related to the saturation. During the faculty presentations at at least two of my interviews, they showed a screenshot of the old BLS stats (the ones showing 20%+ job market growth) and used it as evidence to talk up how pharmacy will always be a surefire safe career bet. The BLS stats had been out for at least 6 months by this time.
 
Graduates killing themselves out of despair is sad. You know these administrators don't care aside from possible bad publicity.
You have a very stone cold idea of those administrators.

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You have a very stone cold idea of those administrators.

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They already show they dont have a conscience when it comes to putting us in debt and killing the job.market, this really isnt that far of a leap
 
Not only do they not care, but I also think they're actively trying to suppress the spread of information related to the saturation. During the faculty presentations at at least two of my interviews, they showed a screenshot of the old BLS stats (the ones showing 20%+ job market growth) and used it as evidence to talk up how pharmacy will always be a surefire safe career bet. The BLS stats had been out for at least 6 months by this time.

They only care when a student dies because they know the student loan money dies with the student. They already got the money from the student, yes. But the Federal Student Aid people might start squeezing for answers before lending money again for another student heading to the same bubble... and that my friend, is what schools care/fear the most. The only way out of this mess, is to get regulation in place from the "top dogs". Otherwise, the ship will keep sinking. I am drowning the heck out with the huge loans and unemployed.

I tell people how simple it is to "sense" the market. Go to cvs, publix, walgreens, you name it, open up an account (it is free), see how many openings they have. Think about the 12 hr shift and how many pharmacist can work in a pharmacy any given month. Think about the number of graduates/year...Yup, it is baaaad.
 
So the NABP is doing what they can do to combat oversaturation. What are you doing?

They've increased the NAPLEX fee to $575, I guess they figure they should take every last penny they can from the rubes.

I do not know what is the point of this discussion anyway because some of the pharmacist do not have any useful comments about the topic. NAPLEX is not an easy assessment test anymore as some pharmacist portray it to be. Students who came out from the exam feeling they failed it and then find out later they actually passed it , propagate false information to the incoming graduates to feed in their ego. My honest opinion is that new graduates need to prepare for the exam well and pass it. The only difference between students who passed the exam and failed it is a matter of how much time one spends preparing for the exam over a longer period of time. It has nothing to do with competence as some portray it to be.
 
The only difference between students who passed the exam and failed it is a matter of how much time one spends preparing for the exam over a longer period of time. It has nothing to do with competence as some portray it to be.

I think competence plays a part when you consider we all spent 4 years preparing for what is considered a minimal-competence licensing exam.

Admission statistics for many schools have showed lower standards in who they will accept for several years now. Say what you will about how GPA and test scores translate to real world performance at an individual level, but I can't help but be worried when I see an average GPA and PCAT fall from 3.5/80 to 2.5/30. Many schools are only concerned with siphoning as many student loan dollars as they can. They are accepting students that aren't capable of handling the responsibility that comes with being a pharmacist.
 
They still coming up with stupid questions like what kind of canes Alzheimer patients should use?
 
I do not know what is the point of this discussion anyway because some of the pharmacist do not have any useful comments about the topic. NAPLEX is not an easy assessment test anymore as some pharmacist portray it to be. Students who came out from the exam feeling they failed it and then find out later they actually passed it , propagate false information to the incoming graduates to feed in their ego. My honest opinion is that new graduates need to prepare for the exam well and pass it. The only difference between students who passed the exam and failed it is a matter of how much time one spends preparing for the exam over a longer period of time. It has nothing to do with competence as some portray it to be.

Not everyone took the CAT (Computer Adaptive Test) version. In 2004, I thought I actually failed because the questions got hard then they got really easy and knowing how the CAT works, getting easy questions meant you were a failing imbecile (I was taking the test under a hangover handicap as well due to the ATT being rescheduled earlier). I actually passed handily, but if the test is doing its job, it should get harder toward the end. The paper exam, NABPLEX, is a significant degree harder than the NAPLEX that I took (a couple of examples from the paper NABPLEX: there's questions on wet versus dry tablet method with an illustration of a tablet machine to guide some of them, there were questions on specific drug kinetics (phenytoin and theophylline) that are definitely not asked in the modern test, and there were questions that asked about SAR and metabolite breakdowns which are simplified in the current version). The modern version has more clinical relevance, the old versions had more scientific relevance. If anything, the exam is more relevant to what a normal person is likely to see today than the old exams. Oh, and back in the day, RxPrep and all those other nice books didn't exist for the clinical phase (the law book is still worth the purchase).

No, the test has not changed overly much outside of getting rid of some historical questions (I'm laughing as I got the Alzheimer's cane question in 2004, guess that one wasn't a experimental). NAPLEX is a minimal competency (arguably too minimal), failing this should be rightfully thought of as too incompetent to practice. Depending on a school's pass rate, it is the responsibility of the student and/or the school, but the school isn't doing the profession any favors by giving substandard training to marginal students. That's mostly the gripe around here.
 
Not everyone took the CAT (Computer Adaptive Test) version. In 2004, I thought I actually failed because the questions got hard then they got really easy and knowing how the CAT works, getting easy questions meant you were a failing imbecile

Took it in 04 as well - It was obvious when you were getting questions right because they seemed to ask a question that built off of the previous. But dang, they seemed hard, and I thought I failed - I had zero questions on lipids, diabetes, and hypertension. But a ton of questions on vaccines, TB, and HIV. I had the same question asked to me 3 times, but in different ways.

Then I realized I scored a 146 - so I did better than I thought
 
Took it in 04 as well - It was obvious when you were getting questions right because they seemed to ask a question that built off of the previous. But dang, they seemed hard, and I thought I failed - I had zero questions on lipids, diabetes, and hypertension. But a ton of questions on vaccines, TB, and HIV. I had the same question asked to me 3 times, but in different ways.

Then I realized I scored a 146 - so I did better than I thought

Had similar experience with the NAPLEX. I think the computer adaptive format makes for a difficult comparison with the written though since with the computer based NAPLEX, you can not backtrack & revisit questions to guide oneself to the correct answer (you know it or you don't at the expense of time & the computer format). There is also less freedom to strategize; for instance, I was hit with around 80% of my calculations questions in the first half of the exam putting me far behind of pace resulting in needing to rush through the remaining test.

There were some pharmacokinetic based math questions (phenytoin, digoxin) but nothing ridiculously extensive like in the APhA NAPLEX book. The stronger focus on Vaccines has possibly led to less content on more traditional science SAR based questions. Drug Info reference questions seemed like a ripe topic as well & I hear more pharmacy practice type competencies are being incorporated
 
I do not know what is the point of this discussion anyway because some of the pharmacist do not have any useful comments about the topic. NAPLEX is not an easy assessment test anymore as some pharmacist portray it to be. Students who came out from the exam feeling they failed it and then find out later they actually passed it , propagate false information to the incoming graduates to feed in their ego. My honest opinion is that new graduates need to prepare for the exam well and pass it. The only difference between students who passed the exam and failed it is a matter of how much time one spends preparing for the exam over a longer period of time. It has nothing to do with competence as some portray it to be.

By your logic do you suggest that the PCAT exam is also getting more difficult? And the only difference in higher scores is the amount of time prepared for it? I believe the average pcat scores for all admitted pharmacy students as a whole has decreased but don't ask me for numbers.
Yes preparation has something to do with it but there is a bit of learning ability/competence and knowledge rentesion as well. Have you never met anyone that can ace exams without studying and you have to bust your ass for a B?
If more of the type of people that have to bust their ass to pass are taking the test then yes it's going to be more and more based on preperation... but that's not the only factor at play.
 
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