2017 NAPLEX results: bad, real bad

[lord999]

By your logic do you suggest that the PCAT exam is also getting more difficult? And the only difference in higher scores is the amount of time prepared for it? I believe the average pcat scores for all admitted pharmacy students as a whole has decreased but don't ask me for numbers.
Yes preparation has something to do with it but there is a bit of learning ability/competence and knowledge rentesion as well. Have you never met anyone that can ace exams without studying and you have to bust your ass for a B?
If more of the type of people that have to bust their ass to pass are taking the test then yes it's going to be more and more based on preperation... but that's not the only factor at play.

For PCAT, not possible unless they have rescaled the scores. They are supposed to target scores to some standard population. That's why the scores used to be outrageously high during the initial administrations as the exam's ideal population was not a particularly good testing cohort.

It's really school dependent as well. My alma mater was an mild work B, a hard A, and a comatose C (you really had to try to fail). On the other hand, there were some schools, UF comes to mind, that passing was actually a problem due to faculty abuse.

That said, from dealing with academic council matters, we have more marginal students than before (as in fails a class and we have to make decisions). I don't really know about whether classes in general are worse (I'm at a good school), but there's chatter about that at meetings.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[pharmasaurusRex17]

This is very true. MCP made MA a joke to be in. It was difficult to find a TECH job in this state, forget about RPH.

MCP is a scam of a school. They are just a business and they manufacture pharmacists.

Why students keep going here is beyond comprehension. Maybe because they accept bottom of the barrel?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

MCP students are an interesting mix, after experiencing Boston campus for 6 years. I dont know how bad Worcester is but apparently it's a LOT worse than us... That being said, those who are the top portions of the class end up doing really well and they're just as competitive as graduates from say USC or UCSF. 2 of my colleagues matched USC, 1 UVA, 1 UMD, 1 in GA, I'm in WA, a friend in OR, a few in NJ and NY, a ton in MA... (these are just residents, the other part of us matched fellowships)

They accept a wide range of students from what I notice. You have your top students, but you also have bottom of the barrel students. Just like every school. I just wish they didn't accept so many students. The campus is already small as it is... My class graduated 260 ish in Boston alone.

 

[krzasa]

Throwing my two cents from a 2017 grad who recently took the NAPLEX: I passed it just fine without needing to review much, other than a few calculations I was rusty on, though I think my school prepared our class well for it, and has a pass rate of ~95% or more the past couple years

We actually have a brand new pharmacy school that opened up in our state this year, so our Dean is working hard to reduce class sizes from almost 170 to 120, so there are some administrators that understand the problem!

 

[Jibby321]

The NAPLEX is a joke and always has been. It allows people I wouldn't even consider competent to pass. It needs to be markedly harder. There used to be almost zero clinical knowledge on the exam. I don't know if it's changed since, but I suspect it hasn't. They'd test you on nonsense like what color the 5mg Warfarin is, but wouldn't test on something you might actually need to know, like Vanc dosing.

I took it this past week. (Don't have my score yet) but I did find the exam to be very easy. However, I didn't have any silly questions like what color is warfarin or levothyroxine. The exam is much much more clinical in nature than in the past. The closest thing I had to a give me question was asking the ingredients in certain HIV medications.

 

[Abby Atwood]

I think that some of the new pharmacy programs are trying new things with group learning. I don't think group learning is for everyone. I know that I would have done a little bit worse in a program with that type of teaching strategy. It can be difficult for a new pharmacy school to fill seats if they are competing with a less expensive state school that has a more established reputation. Not every new pharmacy school has that problem though.

The exam has also become a bit more difficult. The pharmacy program I graduated from is an established program with a good reputation. Our pass rate dropped by about 10% after the exam format changed. I don't know how my year will do, so it might rebound this year.

An eighty something percent pass rate isn't terrible. In most cases, people can take the exam again without substantial consequences. There is a bit of luck to it. I didn't get any HIV questions on my exam which is really lucky since I'm pretty weak in that area.

 

[Baalzeebub]

The average PCAT score across the country for students admitted to pharmacy school last year was around a 53.
Curb your outrage- that school with an average in the 60s is actually above average!

Keep in mind there aren't necessarily going to get a big drop in PCAT scores since they are based on percentiles. In general I assume pharmacy attracts less desirable candidates than it did 15 years ago, so the PCAT average for good pharmacy schools "should" be going up regardless of how smart the actual candidates actually are.

 

[Baalzeebub]

They only care when a student dies because they know the student loan money dies with the student. They already got the money from the student, yes. But the Federal Student Aid people might start squeezing for answers before lending money again for another student heading to the same bubble... and that my friend, is what schools care/fear the most. The only way out of this mess, is to get regulation in place from the "top dogs". Otherwise, the ship will keep sinking. I am drowning the heck out with the huge loans and unemployed.

I tell people how simple it is to "sense" the market. Go to cvs, publix, walgreens, you name it, open up an account (it is free), see how many openings they have. Think about the 12 hr shift and how many pharmacist can work in a pharmacy any given month. Think about the number of graduates/year...Yup, it is baaaad.

Not only that, but pharmacies are not even staying the same, they are contracting. I live in one of the largest pharmacy areas in the country (so many retired people here), so I'm at ground zero, so to speak, of retail pharmacy. Probably 300 stores at peak, down to 275-ish. In the last 2 years went from 20+ 24-hr pharmacies to about 5. Many others had their hours reduced. This is only the beginning, a lot more cuts are coming, and that's not even mentioning grocery stores. How may can stay open long term by filling 100 rxs/day? My guess is that in 10 years there will be 10-20% fewer jobs for pharmacists. I don't even want to think about the increase in new grads. An absolute nightmare.

 

[rxdawg21]

New schools are doing group learning? Shoot I went to UGA years ago and they were doing that crap in therapeutics.

As for the job market it's been discussed ad nauseam. I'm actually surprised it seems better then I expected (not saying it's good but people I know are still switching to publix in Atlanta and people are starting in Atlanta or getting a speciality job in Atlanta or another major ga city) Little has changed in the last few years compared to the rapid changes i witnessed as a technician/intern from 2007-2010. Heck the VA has grown exponentially (all 3 major hospitals in ga)

 

[quickpic007]

Not only that, but pharmacies are not even staying the same, they are contracting. I live in one of the largest pharmacy areas in the country (so many retired people here), so I'm at ground zero, so to speak, of retail pharmacy. Probably 300 stores at peak, down to 275-ish. In the last 2 years went from 20+ 24-hr pharmacies to about 5. Many others had their hours reduced. This is only the beginning, a lot more cuts are coming, and that's not even mentioning grocery stores. How may can stay open long term by filling 100 rxs/day? My guess is that in 10 years there will be 10-20% fewer jobs for pharmacists. I don't even want to think about the increase in new grads. An absolute nightmare.

My previous employer was moderately profitable at 600 sold rx weekly. Profit loss reports were just over 130K after paying 60 rph hours and 80 tech hours. We did have several specialty patients and the inventory was expertly managed...

 

[Digsbe]

I wonder how many new grads haven't been able to get licenses yet and how many have been barred from entering the job market.

 

[PharmDBro2017]

I wonder how many new grads haven't been able to get licenses yet and how many have been barred from entering the job market.

I've only heard from a couple that have failed in my class so far.

Overall, the naplex was surprisingly easy, although my schools pass rate for last year did not reflect it (we had a bunch of idiots obviously). 250 questions/400minutes was pretty taxing, and warps your mind by the time you are finished. I studied for probably a solid 10 days while working full time, waking up at ~3am and studying till 5am, then a few more hours later in the evening after work. I just focused on calculations for 3 days prior to the exam, HIV, Oncology. Studied my notes from ICU/oncology/critical care rotations.

I didn't think that I was very prepared (since I didn't study much) but I was more prepared than I thought. I learned a lot in school and rotations; only made it through about half of RXPrep book. I do recommend their book though.

 

[297point1]

Keep in mind there aren't necessarily going to get a big drop in PCAT scores since they are based on percentiles. In general I assume pharmacy attracts less desirable candidates than it did 15 years ago, so the PCAT average for good pharmacy schools "should" be going up regardless of how smart the actual candidates actually are.

I am really trying to understand what you just said, but man oh man...where to start:
- Seat availability continues to escalate (though slower than before)
- Applicant numbers (quantity) are dropping
- Applicant readiness (quality) has dipped slightly, but is relatively unchanged

How the PCAT is scored - raw scores or percentiles - doesn't make a huge difference. PCAT scores are re-centered every few years anyways, which makes longitudinal tracking difficult. [Side note: SAT scores were re-centered in 1995 because the actual scores were on the decline for 15 years; every year brought a new "all-time low" total score on the exam and calls for secondary educational reform coupled with antagonism by lawmakers and school boards towards teachers and schools. SAT scores immediately jumped in 1996, but the students taking the exam were no smarter than the year before.]

If a rising tide lifts all boats, an ebb tide lowers them. Pharmacy admissions is in an ebb tide right now. Even the "good pharmacy schools" you refer to are having to go deeper into their applicant pools to fill their incoming classes due to fewer applicants and more competition amongst schools; the current market dynamics are affecting everybody (albeit not equally).

 

[deleted727644]

Everyone seems to complain about the schools taking in more students but really it's the students who think they can handle pharmacy school and the NAPLEX. In the end they're 200k in debt because they didn't work hard enough or they're just not cut out to handle the work.
Do you think pharmacy schools will care? No. They're getting their money from students either way and getting accredited easily. The only time these schools will make any changes and show that they actually care for their students is when they're on probation.
So students need to ask themselves if they'll put their 100% in pharmacy school before committing. The idea of becoming a pharmacist & getting over 100k might sound exciting but don't overlook the fact if you're dumb. Be realistic. Be competitive.