2017 NAPLEX results: bad, real bad

[BMBiology]

Let's discuss the 2016/2017 results in this new thread:

https://nabp.pharmacy/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/NAPLEX-2016-Pass-Rates.pdf

Man, those are some bad scores. How can these schools say they are preparing their students for the real world when they can't pass a minimum competency exam?

Provider status? Forget about that. Let's pass first.


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[BMBiology]

Even the California pharmacy schools are screwing up! 89% for Western, 92% for UOP!

California schools usually get > 98% pass rate when I was in school.


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[BMBiology]

California Northstate: 87%
Loma Linda: 83%

No wonder pharmacy students in Boston did so poorly....64% pass rate!? They usually get the California school rejects.


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[PharmDBro2017]

Needing to be said, difficulty has changed in the last year and it is not so much a minimum competency exam anymore.

All of the pharmacists I speak to say the NAPLEX used to be a joke; it isn't anymore. Supposedly the new (more difficult) 2016 naplex just changed AGAIN to a more difficult 2017 naplex (via RxPrep). Wouldn't be surprised if pass rates decreased further for 2017.

 

[Old Timer]

My Alma Mater, Temple, did pretty well. Don't know how it compared to the 80's when I took mine.....

 

[PharFromNormal]

So the NABP is doing what they can do to combat oversaturation. What are you doing?

 

[Gombrich12]

They've increased the NAPLEX fee to $575, I guess they figure they should take every last penny they can from the rubes.

 

[gwarm01]

So the NABP is doing what they can do to combat oversaturation. What are you doing?

I don't think anyone is upset about that. If anything, I'm glad they've increased the difficulty of the exam. Admission statistics for new pharmacy students are terrible, so if anything I can rest easier knowing that we aren't going to have as many "minimally competent" pharmacists out there.

It is interesting to note the difference between schools from 2015 to 2016. My school, University of Arkansas, dropped from 94% to 80%. The other school in Arkansas, Harding University, dropped from 93% to 67%. Meanwhile, University of Florida actually increased from 93% to 94%.

I wish we knew more details about each individual program. Did UF change their curriculum in anticipation of a harder exam? Were they simply able to keep admitting well-qualified students due to their desirable location?

In the case of UAMS, I have heard about policies enacted over the past few years to make it more forgiving. Students are allowed to retake tests, and some of the classes that were notorious for punishing, handwritten exams have all moved to computerized testing formats. The admission standards have dropped quite a bit, but we are still able to attract halfway decent students due to a lack of competition in the state.

 

[Niosh]

I wonder what would happen to passing rates if they increased the minimum score from 75 to 80.

 

[owlegrad]

I wonder what would happen to passing rates if they increased the minimum score from 75 to 80.

They would go down.

 

[owlegrad]

Wow 'ole UF is looking quite good right now.

 

[Niosh]

They would go down.

Clearly, but by how much?

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Good. Make it even harder next year.

 

[Amicable Angora]

I disagree, I believe that the NAPLEX should be a super easy exam. It should be an exam that you could go in without any extra studying outside of school and easily pass. It is unreasonable to force someone who was admitted into a professional program, and met graduating standards, to spend 4 or more years of their life preparing for a career and then fail at the end with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt on their heels.

This is not helping, and will not help address the saturation issue because there still is no accountability. The only person that suffers is the individual, while even their pharmacy brethren are celebrating (see here) and rubbing their hands together in glee. This is not right.

Only if schools are held accountable, will this be effective. So for example, say a school's pass rate is under 70%. 2 years of this within a 5 year period and the program should be shut down. Then, for example, a school's pass rate is 70-80% (some determined number), sanctions should be put on the school for improvement else they face the risk of closure or loss of funding, etc.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

The NAPLEX is a joke and always has been. It allows people I wouldn't even consider competent to pass. It needs to be markedly harder. There used to be almost zero clinical knowledge on the exam. I don't know if it's changed since, but I suspect it hasn't. They'd test you on nonsense like what color the 5mg Warfarin is, but wouldn't test on something you might actually need to know, like Vanc dosing.

 

[lord999]

The NAPLEX is a joke and always has been. It allows people I wouldn't even consider competent to pass. It needs to be markedly harder. There used to be almost zero clinical knowledge on the exam. I don't know if it's changed since, but I suspect it hasn't. They'd test you on nonsense like what color the 5mg Warfarin is, but wouldn't test on something you might actually need to know, like Vanc dosing.

UF has always been student-hateful. Anyone who manages to survive their vindictive curriculum is probably going to pass.

It hasn't changed that much, but actually, I wish they kept those "stupid easy if you've actually worked in a pharmacy" questions. OF COURSE for someone like you that question is completely inane as who wouldn't know? However, questions like that weed out people who have never worked a day in practice. Like when to use a filter needle, the difference between D5W and NS, what is methyldopa's place in hypertension treatment, things that wouldn't necessarily be mentioned in an academic lecture but would of course be learned by anyone having a casual relationship to the practices should have known.

NAPLEX should be something that we all as practitioners should be able to take with very little if any preparation and convincingly pass it. I'm forgiving of someone who fails MPJE once especially in a state that they are new to as certain practices are special to the state (especially places like TX, NY, and FL that have weird things going on), but NAPLEX failures should be judgmental in the sense that it is the bare minimum that anyone expects.

Then again, have you ever had a transfer where you couldn't understand the other side's spoken English? I kind of wish they would incorporate that into the exam as well.

 

[Monsterdaddy]

https://nabp.pharmacy/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/MPJE-2016-Pass-Rates_v2.pdf

MPJE scores are even lower (Note: California is excluded)

 

[MatCauthon]

I'm pretty sure pharmacy has the easiest licensing exam possible. For one, we only have 1 exam. Look at all the exams MDs, PAs, and dentists have to take along the way.

The exam should be challenging, and students need to spend the proper time studying. How many law students fail the bar after paying for 3 years of law? Having a tough Naplex is a good way to prevent pharmacy schools from loading their classes with subpar students. Naplex isn't a great way to control saturation but it can at least be a matter of pride among those who pass it.

 

[bigd123456]

deleted

 

[steveysmith54]

If you look at schools' attrition rate nowadays, it seems like that has gone up immensely. Most if not all elite students who could go to med/dds/etc schools are out of pharmacy. A lot of schools are adimiting students straight from CC. I am not surprised. I've precepted some dumb asses in the last couple of yrs.

Schools with rates less than 75 percent have no business being open. 1/4 kids can't pass the minimum competency exam? give me a fricking break

 

[Amicable Angora]

I'm pretty sure pharmacy has the easiest licensing exam possible. For one, we only have 1 exam. Look at all the exams MDs, PAs, and dentists have to take along the way.

The exam should be challenging, and students need to spend the proper time studying. How many law students fail the bar after paying for 3 years of law? Having a tough Naplex is a good way to prevent pharmacy schools from loading their classes with subpar students. Naplex isn't a great way to control saturation but it can at least be a matter of pride among those who pass it.

And students failing the bar exam didn't stop floods of applicants from ruining their profession. Hence, why it won't work here for pharmacy.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Wow, I'm shocked to see that all the pharmacy schools in GA had pass rates <80% except for UGA. Even Auburn (which, here in the south, is considered to be a coveted school by basically anyone who has an inkling of interest in going to pharmacy school) had a <80% overall pass rate.

Just curious -- for the overall pass rate figure, how long do the statisticians wait before they decide to crunch the numbers and report this? Technically, couldn't a school's graduates from any particular year continue to take and re-take the NAPLEX even after they'be been out of school for a year?

 

[sosoo]

Lebanese American U has a 100% pass rate... How u doing! ^__^ ,

 

[Lnsean]

These schools with 150+ students and 60-80% pass rate should cut their class sizes down...it's obviously there's no screening being done or they cannot handle the task of teaching that many students (Case in point: massuchusettes---wth---why do you have 270 students in each of your schools)

Props to the larger schools that are still able to maintain 90%+ (UF, all the UCs, Ohio, PCOM, Rutgers). UF is definitely killing it----270+ student body and 94% pass rate.

 

[PAtoPharm]

These schools with 150+ students and 60-80% pass rate should cut their class sizes down...it's obviously there's no screening being done or they cannot handle the task of teaching that many students (Case in point: massuchusettes---wth---why do you have 270 students in each of your schools)

Props to the larger schools that are still able to maintain 90%+ (UF, UCSF, Ohio, PCOM, Rutgers)

PCOM-GA didn't do so well (~75%). I wonder why the GA campus had such a lower pass rate than the main campus.

 

[BenJammin]

95.8% ain't bad when you realize that the other school in the state is in the 80s. $40k a year at OU is such a scam.

 

[steveysmith54]

California Northstate: 87%
Loma Linda: 83%

No wonder pharmacy students in Boston did so poorly....64% pass rate!? They usually get the California school rejects.


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what's more mind boggling from the MA debacle is MCP Boston had 371 test takers and MCP Worcester had 321 test takers... Jeezus fricking christ, how fricking big are their classes? What type of admission standards do they have? i heard that state of MA's job market is so pitiful that most grads don't even try to look for a job in MA and just move. This is coming from someone who lives one of the most saturated areas in the country.

 

[deleted820760]

My school is above 90% pass rate. Did you guys notice the schools with pass rate in the 50s?

How is the Lebanese pharmacy school able to get 100% every year?

I think they should shut down all the private pharmacy schools that have pass rates below 88%. Then get the best faculty from those schools and replace the bad faculty at the public schools with low pass rates. Saturation problem solved, and low Naplex pass rates solved.

@Amicable Angora, I am not happy that so many people failed, but I think they need to keep making the Naplex harder. I'm not trying to use the Naplex to treat the saturation issue. I don't think it helps saturation anyway because people who fail can retake it up to five times!!! Crazy! I think the Naplex should be more difficult because that's how a licensing exam for professionals with Doctorate degrees should be! Would you want to go to a healthcare professional who was minimally competent? You would probably want someone who is completely competent, right? Furthermore, I definitely do not think the old exam tested for minimal competency because I know many incompetent pharmacists who passed. Old Naplex was a joke. I heard the board exam for physicians is extremely difficult, as it should be. Believe it or not, I heard the nursing exam is difficult, too, but who really knows.

Also, I would not be opposed to making Naplex mandatory even for practicing pharmacists who have been out of school for 10 years. Every 10 years, take and pass Naplex in order to continue practicing as a pharmacist. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that's how it is for Physicians, or maybe it was another healthcare professional.

 

[El Trombopag]

How is the Lebanese pharmacy school able to get 100% every year?

Total of 5 students over the past 3 years...




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[deleted820760]

South Dakota students rocked both the Naplex and MPJE! 100% pass rate for MPJE. Good for them!

 

[deleted820760]

Total of 5 students over the past 3 years...




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Yes, but they could have failed and had 0% pass rate. LOL

 

[SmallCapPharma]

what's more mind boggling from the MA debacle is MCP Boston had 371 test takers and MCP Worcester had 321 test takers... Jeezus fricking christ, how fricking big are their classes? What type of admission standards do they have? i heard that state of MA's job market is so pitiful that most grads don't even try to look for a job in MA and just move. This is coming from someone who lives one of the most saturated areas in the country.

This is very true. MCP made MA a joke to be in. It was difficult to find a TECH job in this state, forget about RPH.

MCP is a scam of a school. They are just a business and they manufacture pharmacists.

Why students keep going here is beyond comprehension. Maybe because they accept bottom of the barrel?


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[genesis09]

There will not be any changes to NAPLEX this year. The next change will be in 2018 with the new communication skills section. The change in November was a change to a non adaptive exam and increase in number of questions.

 

[Amicable Angora]

My school is above 90% pass rate. Did you guys notice the schools with pass rate in the 50s?

How is the Lebanese pharmacy school able to get 100% every year?

I think they should shut down all the private pharmacy schools that have pass rates below 88%. Then get the best faculty from those schools and replace the bad faculty at the public schools with low pass rates. Saturation problem solved, and low Naplex pass rates solved.

@Amicable Angora, I am not happy that so many people failed, but I think they need to keep making the Naplex harder. I'm not trying to use the Naplex to treat the saturation issue. I don't think it helps saturation anyway because people who fail can retake it up to five times!!! Crazy! I think the Naplex should be more difficult because that's how a licensing exam for professionals with Doctorate degrees should be! Would you want to go to a healthcare professional who was minimally competent? You would probably want someone who is completely competent, right? Furthermore, I definitely do not think the old exam tested for minimal competency because I know many incompetent pharmacists who passed. Old Naplex was a joke. I heard the board exam for physicians is extremely difficult, as it should be. Believe it or not, I heard the nursing exam is difficult, too, but who really knows.

Also, I would not be opposed to making Naplex mandatory even for practicing pharmacists who have been out of school for 10 years. Every 10 years, take and pass Naplex in order to continue practicing as a pharmacist. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that's how it is for Physicians, or maybe it was another healthcare professional.

No, the NAPLEX is just a profit making tool for various pharmacy organizations. It's cleverly marketed to be for the safety of the patient, which is inherently false. I have met incompetent people everywhere in every profession, and thinking that an exam, that has already been analyzed, broken down, and gamed, can somehow guarantee competence is ridiculous.

Pharmacists do not act "competent" because they passed an exam or because they care for a patient's well being (that could be a reason but that's not the primary one). They are competent because they cannot afford a lawsuit that will prevent them from practicing (see Uber employed pharmacist) or cost them millions of dollars.

 

[Amicable Angora]

I don't think people are really empathizing with people who cannot pass the NAPLEX exam and thus cannot work. We have said on this forum before that if you cannot pass the NAPLEX then the school you went to is ultimately to blame and should be exposed. There is no accountability. In the end, the result is that that individual cannot practice. They are the victim, no "we" are the victims. These victims will have $200,000+ in loans, be unable to work, and literally have no future. You cannot honestly wish that kind of situation on another human being can you? At that point, one of the best choices is to literally commit suicide and that is a sickening thought.

 

[deleted820760]

I don't think people are really empathizing with people who cannot pass the NAPLEX exam and thus cannot work. We have said on this forum before that if you cannot pass the NAPLEX then the school you went to is ultimately to blame and should be exposed. There is no accountability. In the end, the result is that that individual cannot practice. They are the victim, no "we" are the victims. These victims will have $200,000+ in loans, be unable to work, and literally have no future. You cannot honestly wish that kind of situation on another human being can you? At that point, one of the best choices is to literally commit suicide and that is a sickening thought.

I don't wish it on anybody. However, they are not fit to be pharmacists if they can't pass an exam with 5 tries.

Have you looked into the exams other professionals have to take? Physicians have to take the United States Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE), which is a three-part examination taken during and after medical school. It's very intense. If they don't do well on the first two parts, they won't match into residency. If they don't pass the 3rd part, they can't practice. Even beyond that, then they have to take their Board Certification exams, which I heard are extremely difficult. They take months and months to prepare for these exams.

I don't think the Naplex is anything to complain about. It's a joke even with the changes. We need to raise standards, not lower them.

 

[CMUchicka]

Yes, but they could have failed and had 0% pass rate. LOL

I actually have worked with one of their graduate. At the first, I thought he had international pharmacy degree but after talking to him I learned that he has pharmD. He said it's similar to what we have here. But I think he had to get certain intern hours here before he could get licensed here.

 

[deleted820760]

They would go down.

LOL! You're funny. I think Niosh meant, go down by how much?

 

[Amicable Angora]

I don't wish it on anybody. However, they are not fit to be pharmacists if they can't pass an exam with 5 tries.

Have you looked into the exams other professionals have to take? Physicians have to take the United States Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE), which is a three-part examination taken during and after medical school. It's very intense. If they don't do well on the first two parts, they won't match into residency. If they don't pass the 3rd part, they can't practice. Even beyond that, then they have to take their Board Certification exams, which I heard are extremely difficult. They take months and months to prepare for these exams.

I don't think the Naplex is anything to complain about. It's a joke even with the changes. We need to raise standards, not lower them.

We are not physicians, nor do we make $200,000+

 

[Lnsean]

Yes, but they could have failed and had 0% pass rate. LOL

Less variance....it's easier to get 5 people towards one goal than 200 people towards one goal.

 

[Lnsean]

what's more mind boggling from the MA debacle is MCP Boston had 371 test takers and MCP Worcester had 321 test takers... Jeezus fricking christ, how fricking big are their classes? What type of admission standards do they have? i heard that state of MA's job market is so pitiful that most grads don't even try to look for a job in MA and just move. This is coming from someone who lives one of the most saturated areas in the country.

Yea that's the scary part---it's like there's no screening process or they cannot handle teaching that many students

 

[deleted820760]

We are not physicians, nor do we make $200,000+

We could still kill someone if we are incompetent. We are healthcare professionals with Doctorate degrees. That should be sufficient reason to make our licensing exam as difficult as possible. It has nothing to do with how much we make. It has to do with what's safe for patients. That's probably why they make physicians take all of those extremely difficult exams AND do years of residency.

Like I said previously, I think even practicing pharmacists should have to take it every 10 years, so it's not like I'm just wanting things to be difficult for new grads. The Canadian licensing exam is much more difficult than our Naplex. I bet they still have high pass rates. They have 100% pass rate when they take our Naplex to become licensed here.

"Nothing worth having comes easy."

 

[Amicable Angora]

We could still kill someone if we are incompetent. We are healthcare professionals with Doctorate degrees. That should be sufficient reason to make our licensing exam as difficult as possible. It has nothing to do with how much we make. It has to do with what's safe for patients. That's probably why they make physicians take all of those extremely difficult exams AND do years of residency.

Like I said previously, I think even practicing pharmacists should have to take it every 10 years, so it's not like I'm just wanting things to be difficult for new grads. The Canadian licensing exam is much more difficult than our Naplex. I bet they still have high pass rates. They have 100% pass rate when they take our Naplex to become licensed here.

"Nothing worth having comes easy."

We are not physicians. When we get all the perks and compensation for being physicians I will agree with you 100%. Until that day, none of this matters beyond a very superficial level. There are so many physicians that are completely incompetent. The liability is pushed on us when they half ass their patients.

 

[owlegrad]

I don't think people are really empathizing with people who cannot pass the NAPLEX exam and thus cannot work. We have said on this forum before that if you cannot pass the NAPLEX then the school you went to is ultimately to blame and should be exposed. There is no accountability. In the end, the result is that that individual cannot practice. They are the victim, no "we" are the victims. These victims will have $200,000+ in loans, be unable to work, and literally have no future. You cannot honestly wish that kind of situation on another human being can you? At that point, one of the best choices is to literally commit suicide and that is a sickening thought.

How about empathizing with the would-be patients of the person who cannot pass the NAPLEX?

I actually know someone who couldn't pass the NAPLEX. I feel bad for him but what does it say about the caliber of pharmacist he would make that he couldn't pass an exam with a pass rate of like 95% (at the time)? I wouldn't want him to be my pharmacist...

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[owlegrad]

Also if committing suicide seems reasonable your priorities are way out of wack. Between PAYE, fleeing the country, or just dealing with your debt, killing yourself is most certainly NOT reasonable..

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[Amicable Angora]

How about empathizing with the would-be patients of the person who cannot pass the NAPLEX?

I actually know someone who couldn't pass the NAPLEX. I feel bad for him but what does it say about the caliber of pharmacist he would make that he couldn't pass an exam with a pass rate of like 95% (at the time)? I wouldn't want him to be my pharmacist...

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And to go back to what I said, who is ultimately to blame? The schools. The schools are letting in these subpar students who end up in this situation.

 

[owlegrad]

And to go back to what I said, who is ultimately to blame? The schools. The schools are letting in these subpar students who end up in this situation.

I don't know if I agree. Schools aren't omniscient, they will never be able to completely screen out people who can't pass the NAPLEX.

Regardless though, if the person can not pass they shouldn't be a pharmacist. You seem to think otherwise.

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[Amicable Angora]

I don't know if I agree. Schools aren't omniscient, they will never be able to completely screen out people who can't pass the NAPLEX.

Regardless though, if the person can not pass they shouldn't be a pharmacist. You seem to think otherwise.

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I'm going to end up repeating myself so I'll limit my response to you to this last post:

Sure, the person can't pass, but why can't they pass? They attended school, paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for their education and training. Schools are increasingly churning out students - so not 1 or 2 or even 3 individuals, rather significant chunks of their classes - that cannot pass these exams. These schools are defrauding society. There is no applicant that is thinking to themselves about how they are going to be a terrible pharmacist and be incompetent and fail an exam. So you cannot blame the individual. But you sure can blame the schools for signing on anyone with a pulse and willing to sign away $200,000.

If this post doesn't make it clear I don't know what else to say because we will just be going round and round in circles.

 

[lord999]

I'm going to end up repeating myself so I'll limit my response to you to this last post:

Sure, the person can't pass, but why can't they pass? They attended school, paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for their education and training. Schools are increasingly churning out students - so not 1 or 2 or even 3 individuals, rather significant chunks of their classes - that cannot pass these exams. These schools are defrauding society. There is no applicant that is thinking to themselves about how they are going to be a terrible pharmacist and be incompetent and fail an exam. So you cannot blame the individual. But you sure can blame the schools for signing on anyone with a pulse and willing to sign away $200,000.

If this post doesn't make it clear I don't know what else to say because we will just be going round and round in circles.

I tend to agree, but I would also say two other major factors work into this.

Speaking from the teaching side, the quality of instruction has gone way down (and it's something of a conversation piece in ACPE). I came from a shake and bake school and while I complained about it, I actually got a pretty decent set of lecturers (the pharmacologist who read verbatim from her notes being an exception). I've seen two Big 10 schools over the years and how they dumbed down the curriculum. It's not hard to pass pharmacy school, but it is work to do well in it. However, there's few of the PharmD faculty who actually had training in actual adult education or pedagogy, and most of us who are in research are too busy doing our professional beggar impression to NIH to be able to care about the undergraduates. I simply wouldn't bother attending classes in this era and just show up for exams for how little value added most faculty instructors bring to their classes.

Let's not make pharmacy into something it isn't. Pharmacy should not be a reach subject for anyone who did reasonably well in organic and analytical chemistry. The basic year might be challenging to someone whose first time in immunology or real physiology due to the memorization, but you know, the concepts aren't that difficult to memorize or master. I still hold to the belief that if the majority of a reasonably competent class finds the subject hard, the faculty are either being abusive about the subject or witless about teaching it (I've seen both). Hard is not the same as work. ID is a lot of work in terms learning about the vast combination of bugs to drugs, but the underlying concepts of antibiotic pharmacotherapy is not that hard.

The other major factor which I can tell in an hour is whether or not students took the time to work in a paid internship outside the requireds. There's something about the standards of getting paid that teach you all sorts of lessons school just can't. I see a much higher number of residency applications (I make it mandatory for fellowship ones where I will screen out anyone who does not have at least 500 hours from paid experience) that lack any paid experience in pharmacy prior to their residency application.

 

[deleted820760]

How about empathizing with the would-be patients of the person who cannot pass the NAPLEX?

I actually know someone who couldn't pass the NAPLEX. I feel bad for him but what does it say about the caliber of pharmacist he would make that he couldn't pass an exam with a pass rate of like 95% (at the time)? I wouldn't want him to be my pharmacist...

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Thank you for caring about the patient, Owl. You have the right priorities. It seems like many of the pre-pharm and pharm students are just in it for the money these days. The standards to get into pharmacy school has been lowered so much that students are failing and retaking multiple classes, then they can't even pass an easy Naplex exam. They get 5 tries to pass the Naplex! Someone who didn't even go to pharmacy school could probably pass it with 5 tries!

@Amicable Angora, someone in pre-pharmacy forum was bragging about how he got 13 Ds and 6 Fs in undergrad and still got accepted into pharmacy school. He was encouraging other people with multiple Ds and Fs to apply to pharmacy school. He then failed out of pharmacy school, and somehow convinced them to let him back in. I'm sorry but I do not want someone like that to become a practicing pharmacist. It's not that I wish bad upon those people, but I just think people like that should have never gotten into pharmacy school in the first place.

Some people are just not fit for certain careers. I could say I want to be a Navy SEAL but not even be able to do a pushup. Do you think I should still be allowed to be a Navy SEAL and put the other Navy SEAL's lives at risk and drag their name in the mud? If they let just anybody be a Navy SEAL, then they wouldn't be as great as they are now. That's the same with pharmacy. Subpar students and pharmacists are ruining this profession as much as these subpar schools opening up on every corner. I don't like the entitled attitudes I'm seeing among pre-pharmacy and pharmacy students. We are not owed anything. We have to work hard for it and earn it.