[2018-2019] Emergency Medicine Application Thread

[gamerEMdoc]

I’ve talkd about this in the AMA thread, I’ll repost what I initially said over there. I would imagine most programs have some sort of initial ranking system before they sit down as a group and go over the list (assuming they do that with the residents). It would be way too much work to have everyone on equal footing then try to rank 100 people, you’d forget way too much about the applicants that would help you differentiate people, and I think it would be more likely at that point to just devolve into a popularity contest.

Repost of our process below:

Prior to the interview, I score the applications for the week. The score is a weighted scoring system that factors in all the different parts of the application, but is weighted to give the most importance to the parts of the app that I think are the most valuable. After the interview, we as interviewers sit around and give an interview score, that gets added to the applicants total score to give them a total "application score". We then order our rank list from top to bottom from highest scoring applicant to lowest scoring applicant to form our initial rank list.

In the weeks before we certify, we then take an hour or two as a group with all the residents to go over each candidate (I have a powerpoint summary slide on every candidate with their app score, board scores, SLOEs, and picture). The residents and faculty all give their input on who we should move up or down from their initial app score ranking, and make any suggestions on who not to rank. We take that feedback, then the PD and I sit around the next day and basically move the people based on feedback and our gut to determine our final rank list.

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[MacNCheese]

I’ve talkd about this in the AMA thread, I’ll repost what I initially said over there. I would imagine most programs have some sort of initial ranking system before they sit down as a group and go over the list (assuming they do that with the residents). It would be way too much work to have everyone on equal footing then try to rank 100 people, you’d forget way too much about the applicants that would help you differentiate people, and I think it would be more likely at that point to just devolve into a popularity contest.

Repost of our process below:

Prior to the interview, I score the applications for the week. The score is a weighted scoring system that factors in all the different parts of the application, but is weighted to give the most importance to the parts of the app that I think are the most valuable. After the interview, we as interviewers sit around and give an interview score, that gets added to the applicants total score to give them a total "application score". We then order our rank list from top to bottom from highest scoring applicant to lowest scoring applicant to form our initial rank list.

In the weeks before we certify, we then take an hour or two as a group with all the residents to go over each candidate (I have a powerpoint summary slide on every candidate with their app score, board scores, SLOEs, and picture). The residents and faculty all give their input on who we should move up or down from their initial app score ranking, and make any suggestions on who not to rank. We take that feedback, then the PD and I sit around the next day and basically move the people based on feedback and our gut to determine our final rank list.

Hey thanks for that! Very interesting to hear from your perspective.

 

[John Red]

Question about waitlists. I have received interviews/denials from about 30% of the programs I applied to. I have recieved email regarding waitlist at 2 programs. All the other programs I have heard absolutely nothing from.

My question is this: what is the status of our apps if we haven’t heard anything? Is this some sort of purgatory for apps where you haven’t been screened out yet but also not waitlisted?

Thnx.

 

[LaceyMD]

Question about waitlists. I have received interviews/denials from about 30% of the programs I applied to. I have recieved email regarding waitlist at 2 programs. All the other programs I have heard absolutely nothing from.

My question is this: what is the status of our apps if we haven’t heard anything? Is this some sort of purgatory for apps where you haven’t been screened out yet but also not waitlisted?

Thnx.

My understanding is that many programs simply won't tell you if you're on the waitlist, so it's not that your app is in purgatory, it's on a waitlist but the program isn't one that notifies you of this. At other programs, you may have already been screened out, but again, they're not a program that notifies you of this. From talking to previous fourth years, I've heard that it's not uncommon to never hear anything from some programs through the whole process. So you could have been waitlisted, or you could have already been silently rejected. Not easy to tell which one at this point, or ever really, unless you get an invite from them later.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Question about waitlists. I have received interviews/denials from about 30% of the programs I applied to. I have recieved email regarding waitlist at 2 programs. All the other programs I have heard absolutely nothing from.

My question is this: what is the status of our apps if we haven’t heard anything? Is this some sort of purgatory for apps where you haven’t been screened out yet but also not waitlisted?

Thnx.

Could be in a wait list, could be denied. ERAS isn't the most user friendly experience. When I check "wait to invite" on an application, putting them in our waitlist group, students don't get a message saying "you've been waitlisted". There isn't an option to click a button to decline an app (that I know of) that automatically messages students saying "you didn't make the cut". Maybe these options exist and I haven't found them, but like I said, its not the best system.

So possibly they are at places that never saw your app because of filtering. Possibly you are on a wait-list. Possibly you have been declined.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Maybe but probably not. I can’t imagine many EM PDs are going to care about a 4th year performance on a non-EM rotation when they have 2-3 EM evaluations (SLOEs) from a variety of different EM programs to know what kind of student you are in the ED. I’ve never once in my career had a PD in another field like IM, Gen Surgery, FP etc ask me how a candidate that was applying to their program did on their EM rotation. PDs care about how you perform in their chosen field.

 

[23333]

After 4 weeks of silence FINALLY got a new invite today! Direct result of a personalized LOI.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Yeah more still will come out, though the bulk of them are done until cancellations. We sent out our last non-cancellation invite last week. We'll have cancellations in Dec/Jan, and I have a ranked waitlist of 50 candidates to invite when that happens

 

[neuromom]

I just want to send a big THANK YOU to the individuals that are canceling their interview invites in a timely manner and not sitting on an abundance of invites. I believe I got my first, second round invite because of this. Stay strong everybody!

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I just want to send a big THANK YOU to the individuals that are canceling their interview invites in a timely manner and not sitting on an abundance of invites. I believe I got my first, second round invite because of this. Stay strong everybody!

I can't tell you how much I appreciate this from a program standpoint as well. Canceling the week of the interview really makes it impossible to fill that slot and often we don't even try. It takes awhile, because you have to go down your waitlist, email people, wait to hear back from them, if they don't want the interview, email the next one, etc. It's not as easy as someone cancels and you can fill that interview in an hour. Having several weeks to be able to fill that spot and give someone else a chance (as opposed to just leaving the spot open, which is what typically happens on the late cancellations) is extremely helpful.

It's really unfortunate when people cancel the day before the interview or even the morning of the interview (which actually does happen). It really does hurt other students, and is super frustrating from the other side.

I guess that's my PSA. Cancel early if you really have no interest and are planning to cancel, please. It's the right thing to do.

 

[theSmurfette]

Let’s just add 2 more rejections to the pile after sending them interest emails. Or you get no response-either reject me or tell me something!! Then you get a rejection from a place that chose to interview you last year but you’re not good enough this year. Reapplication sucks. Even more when you are just spinning your wheels doing nothing for a year.

And peeps, don’t blow off CS! You can kiss your desired specialty goodbye because all of a sudden you’re spoiled goods. Let’s give 10
people, with no medical education, the ability to derail your entire life. You work for 8+ years for the end game. You miss years with your kids in the hope of finally getting to enjoy life after school & residency only to get the big finger. It’s not a “speak English and you’ll pass” anymore. Thanks Harvard for that one!

Yes, I’m bitter. I would have never gone to medical school if I knew I wouldn’t be an EM doc in the end. I would have picked a different career.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Let’s just add 2 more rejections to the pile after sending them interest emails. Or you get no response-either reject me or tell me something!! Then you get a rejection from a place that chose to interview you last year but you’re not good enough this year. Reapplication sucks. Even more when you are just spinning your wheels doing nothing for a year.

And peeps, don’t blow off CS! You can kiss your desired specialty goodbye because all of a sudden you’re spoiled goods. Let’s give 10
people, with no medical education, the ability to derail your entire life. You work for 8+ years for the end game. You miss years with your kids in the hope of finally getting to enjoy life after school & residency only to get the big finger. It’s not a “speak English and you’ll pass” anymore. Thanks Harvard for that one!

Yes, I’m bitter. I would have never gone to medical school if I knew I wouldn’t be an EM doc in the end. I would have picked a different career.

I know this is easy for me to say, because I got to do the field that I wanted to do. But trust me when I say, EM isn't the be all and end all of medicine. Being a physician, any physician, can allow you to have a rewarding career. If you don't match EM this year and have to go the backup route, own it. Become their best resident. Become a chief resident in the program. Find something you love about it. Want to do academics? Become a mentor for med students and/or residents for that field. Want to just see patients and go home at the end of your shift... work in an urgent care or rural ED. You will find things about wherever you end up (EM or not) that you will like and dislike. Embrace the things you enjoy regardless, and forge your path based on that.

Trust me, there are things I dislike about EM. Many things. But I find sanity in focusing on the things I love, like teaching, mentorship, advising, procedures, critical care, etc.

Best of luck though, I still hope EM works out for you!

 

[CardiacLion]

So what’s the deal with pre-Interview dinners? Are they “not required” like everyone says?

I’be only been to a handful throughout the interview trail only because it’s a lot of time taken out to travel, etc.

I just don’t want to be someone who isn’t as highly considered as another interviewee because I couldn’t make it to the dinner.

 

[Yung Kelso]

@gamerEMdoc. How do you feel about thank you letters after interviews. Do you read them? Do you care if students write them or not? Does it influence how you rank your students? how long after an interview is too long to write one? can I write one to programs I interviewed at a month ago?

 

[gamerEMdoc]

So what’s the deal with pre-Interview dinners? Are they “not required” like everyone says?

I’be only been to a handful throughout the interview trail only because it’s a lot of time taken out to travel, etc.

I just don’t want to be someone who isn’t as highly considered as another interviewee because I couldn’t make it to the dinner.

Not required at all. It's for you to meet some of the residents and get their sense of the program and ask questions you may not want to ask the faculty during the formal interview. Doesn't factor into the rank list at all with the exception if you do something really stupid and unprofessional.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

How do you feel about thank you letters after interviews.

I don't really feel one way or the other about them.

Do you read them?

Every one I get, but I don't always respond to the thank you emails.

Do you care if students write them or not?

Nope

Does it influence how you rank your students?

Nope

how long after an interview is too long to write one?

After rank lists are in

can I write one to programs I interviewed at a month ago?

Sure. This is something that doesn't affect rank lists at all. Write them if you want, don't write them if you want. Write them all at the end. Write them the week after the interview. Never write them. Doesn't matter.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

So what’s the deal with pre-Interview dinners? Are they “not required” like everyone says?

I’be only been to a handful throughout the interview trail only because it’s a lot of time taken out to travel, etc.

I just don’t want to be someone who isn’t as highly considered as another interviewee because I couldn’t make it to the dinner.

I stopped going to these about halfway through the interview season. I went on about 20 interviews because of couples' match and I was tired of being "on" all the time. Most of the time, the residents you meet at these things are the "gung-ho, nothing is wrong with our program, chief gunner" types who won't be honest with you about what you really want to know.

If you go, you should definitely consider it "part of the interview." We were always encouraged to report back both positives and negative to the PD from these events. If anything, I bet your attendance has the potential to hurt you rather than help.

I didn't attend the pre-interview dinner for the program I matched at lol.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I stopped going to these about halfway through the interview season. I went on about 20 interviews because of couples' match and I was tired of being "on" all the time. Most of the time, the residents you meet at these things are the "gung-ho, nothing is wrong with our program, chief gunner" types who won't be honest with you about what you really want to know.

Definitely true. The people that volunteer to go to an interview dinner are the people that really like their program and want to sell it. You'll definitely get a skewed view in the sense that you are unlikely to get negative opinions. If you do, that would probably be a really bad sign.

If you go, you should definitely consider it "part of the interview." We were always encouraged to report back both positives and negative to the PD from these events. If anything, I bet your attendance has the potential to hurt you rather than help.

That's never been my experience at all. Not when I was a resident and not at my program now. When I was a resident, unless someone said something outrageously unprofessional (and it happens), then we never talked to the PD about the dinner. The only time I even ask the residents about the dinner is sometimes I'll ask the people that went if there was anyone they really liked. Nothing formal.

I do agree with the sentiment that it's still kind of part of the interview, but I don't think its necessary to go at all, and I don't think 95% of what you say or do at the dinner will make it back to program leadership at most places.

 

[CardiacLion]

Anyone who is not planning on pursuing an invite to Stony Brook, please cancel lol!

Sorry just a humble request so a waitlisted like myself can have the opportunity to interview at a dream institution.

 

[Manny's Mangoes]

@gamerEMdoc How much importance do you put on Step 2? I had slightly above avg Step 1 and improved by only a point on Step 2. I need a reason to contact programs to let them know I'm still interested and was going to use Step 2 as the reason.

Note: I recently found out one of my SLOEs really hurt me and is basically a red flag, so at this point I'm grasping at straws

 

[CardiacLion]

@gamerEMdoc How much importance do you put on Step 2? I had slightly above avg Step 1 and improved by only a point on Step 2. I need a reason to contact programs to let them know I'm still interested and was going to use Step 2 as the reason.

Note: I recently found out one of my SLOEs really hurt me and is basically a red flag, so at this point I'm grasping at straws

Ugh sorry to hear of that. Honestly I think this whole SLOE thing needs to be handled better. I feel like for something that is weighted even more than board scores (in many, if not all cases), you should have some transparency in how your SLOE's will read. The current SLOE process as it stands is akin to someone having taken their USMLE STEP 1 and not knowing what their scores were until after they matched.

I was brave enough to ask my last interviewer what my SLOE's were like, and received a very rigid response like "you signed a waiver, I can't tell you how they read." I wasn't asking to see them physically, just if they were good or bad. It's silly that I can't even get a roundabout idea of how I performed on my clinical rotations, nonetheless definitively know how I did so that I CAN improve rotation to rotation.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

@gamerEMdoc How much importance do you put on Step 2? I had slightly above avg Step 1 and improved by only a point on Step 2. I need a reason to contact programs to let them know I'm still interested and was going to use Step 2 as the reason.

Note: I recently found out one of my SLOEs really hurt me and is basically a red flag, so at this point I'm grasping at straws

I consider step 2 like I consider step 1. Important, but nowehere near em grades and sloes.

 

[TheKMan1]

Ugh sorry to hear of that. Honestly I think this whole SLOE thing needs to be handled better. I feel like for something that is weighted even more than board scores (in many, if not all cases), you should have some transparency in how your SLOE's will read. The current SLOE process as it stands is akin to someone having taken their USMLE STEP 1 and not knowing what their scores were until after they matched.

I was brave enough to ask my last interviewer what my SLOE's were like, and received a very rigid response like "you signed a waiver, I can't tell you how they read." I wasn't asking to see them physically, just if they were good or bad. It's silly that I can't even get a roundabout idea of how I performed on my clinical rotations, nonetheless definitively know how I did so that I CAN improve rotation to rotation.

I don't quite understand this. Your transcript grade is a rough estimate of your sloe at worst. Most places probably use honors for top 10/ top 1/3. Furthermore, most rotations give you after shift or mid point feedback. Finally, the interview offers you receive are another indicator of overall sloe strength. I didn't feel in the dark about my sloes despite never having had anyone tell me anything about them.

 

[theSmurfette]

I don't quite understand this. Your transcript grade is a rough estimate of your sloe at worst. Most places probably use honors for top 10/ top 1/3. Furthermore, most rotations give you after shift or mid point feedback. Finally, the interview offers you receive are another indicator of overall sloe strength. I didn't feel in the dark about my sloes despite never having had anyone tell me anything about them.

Not if 4th year is pass/fail. It was only after I failed to match that I knew one of my letters was mediocre. All comments during my interviews were “they seemed to really like you.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[whatisthisstuff]

I don't quite understand this. Your transcript grade is a rough estimate of your sloe at worst. Most places probably use honors for top 10/ top 1/3. Furthermore, most rotations give you after shift or mid point feedback. Finally, the interview offers you receive are another indicator of overall sloe strength. I didn't feel in the dark about my sloes despite never having had anyone tell me anything about them.

Eh I've heard multiple people receiving Honors and getting a bottom 1/3 SLOE. Even if the disparity isn't so drastic, middle 1/3 SLOEs seem to be freezing alot of people out this cycle. For a n=1, I received Honors and HP for my 2 SLOEs, have been hinted that they are average, and have only received 5 total interviews. All feedback had been strong on my rotations (and prior). All other stats, grades have been excellent, no red flags on my application. Also in regards to interviews received, by the time you realize you aren't receiving interviews its often too late to apply to many programs competitively so this really doesn't help at all. In retrospect, I probably underapplied (30 programs) but I applied to an appropriate number given all the information that was available (including direct feedback from a PD). Ultimately you can maybe gauge if there is a major red flag on your app, but if you are sitting in this middle ground there is really no way to know how many programs you can safely apply to.

 

[TheKMan1]

All fair retorts! I'm just offering an n =1 that I felt I had a good idea of what I had going for me and so far it appears close to the truth. I guess it seems I may have just guessed right in my own case and it appears from everything you're all saying the process isn't transparent enough.

 

[Manny's Mangoes]

Ugh sorry to hear of that. Honestly I think this whole SLOE thing needs to be handled better. I feel like for something that is weighted even more than board scores (in many, if not all cases), you should have some transparency in how your SLOE's will read. The current SLOE process as it stands is akin to someone having taken their USMLE STEP 1 and not knowing what their scores were until after they matched.

I was brave enough to ask my last interviewer what my SLOE's were like, and received a very rigid response like "you signed a waiver, I can't tell you how they read." I wasn't asking to see them physically, just if they were good or bad. It's silly that I can't even get a roundabout idea of how I performed on my clinical rotations, nonetheless definitively know how I did so that I CAN improve rotation to rotation.

I 100% agree with this. If I had known my SLOE was a red flag then I would've prepared better for the cycle, by doing more EM rotations to obtain more SLOEs and by having a backup speciality to apply to.

In regards to grades being predictors of how the SLOE is, I feel like that doesn't always hold true, like how @BlackLips mentioned.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

When did the specialty start using SLOES? They sound super lame.

I 100% agree with this. If I had known my SLOE was a red flag then I would've prepared better for the cycle, by doing more EM rotations to obtain more SLOEs and by having a backup speciality to apply to.

In regards to grades being predictors of how the SLOE is, I feel like that doesn't always hold true, like how @BlackLips mentioned.

 

[narcan't]

Have an interview in ~2 weeks at I program I did an audition that I can't see myself ranking simply due to location. I really want to cancel it but will that look bad since I did an audition? Don't want to take a spot from someone sitting on a waitlist but also don't want to screw myself by pissing off the PD somehow

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Also in regards to interviews received, by the time you realize you aren't receiving interviews its often too late to apply to many programs competitively so this really doesn't help at all.

This is the best argument against SLOEs being blinded IMO, though I still think the benefits of being blinded still outweigh the negatives. I don't know when the deadline of "its too late to apply to FP/IM/etc is... so I always typically say you want at least 5 interviews by Nov 1, and if not, you need to cut bait. I'm not sure if that's too late or not, I mean there's still 3 months of interviews at that point, so it doesn't seem too late. The issue really is things like LORs. I think a student who may be on the bubble definitely benefits from foresight by getting a letter from their IM and FP rotations in 3rd year if they had a good rotation and keeping those in their back pocket so if they have to cut bait, they have a few non-EM LORs they can submit to a backup should they choose to go in that direction.

When did the specialty start using SLOES? They sound super lame.

For the past 20 years at least.

Non-standardized LORs have been shown to be essentially worthless with low reliability among interpreting faculty in many specialties. They just don't matter. No one writes anything objective, and many people cut and paste their letters and just insert students names. Several years ago, I had two people interviewing in the same week who had a written non-sloe LOR from an EM PD at an AOA program. The letters word for word said the same thing just changed the name. I probably saw that same letter from that PD at least 5 more times during the interview season. They are honestly, truly worthless from a programs perspective, in terms of trying to get a sense of whether you want to hire someone to work for you. Without some type of more standardized letter, which has been studied and shown to have significantly better reliability and much quicker time to interpret, I wouldn't really even consider LORs that much. Which means you'd be ranking people based on their board scores. Which is more transparent, I agree, but it also isn't a good predictor of what you are hiring people for.

The blinded SLOE creates issues for students who are at the low end in terms of planning a backup, I get that, but they also help many students with mediocre board scores who are very good clinical workers. Without having a good way of knowing a student is clinically an all star despite their mediocre or low board scores, these students wouldn't have a chance at matching EM. The SLOE basically puts at the forefront clinical skill, which is what you are hiring the candidate for.

Ideally the system would be blinded, but with some form of transparency for candidates at risk. I like the idea of a SLOE GPA (top 10 = 4, top 1/3 = 3, mid 1/3 - 2, low 1/3 = 1, dnr = 0). It would be awesome if there was some automated system that sent out a one time message in the last week of October to notify students if their SLOE GPA was under 2.0. That would immediately notify the at risk students who are a minority of the candidates, without jeopardizing the majority of the SLOEs being blinded. I'm not sure how that could even be done, but it would be pretty cool nonetheless.

 

[8741empls]

Have an interview in ~2 weeks at I program I did an audition that I can't see myself ranking simply due to location. I really want to cancel it but will that look bad since I did an audition? Don't want to take a spot from someone sitting on a waitlist but also don't want to screw myself by pissing off the PD somehow

I don’t see how that person could affect your application at other places once the SLOE is written without making himself and their program look petty. You don’t want to go there for residency. If you have enough interviews elsewhere to feel comfortable canceling that one, I say do it. I wouldn’t waste your money and both of your time interviewing at a program you won’t rank.
This process is nuts. It makes all of us other think everything.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Have an interview in ~2 weeks at I program I did an audition that I can't see myself ranking simply due to location. I really want to cancel it but will that look bad since I did an audition? Don't want to take a spot from someone sitting on a waitlist but also don't want to screw myself by pissing off the PD somehow

No. Why would they care? Seriously. Programs have no interest in having their time wasted by interviewing someone who isn't going to rank them, any more than you would appreciate having a program interview you if they didn't have any interest in ranking you. Why waste eachothers time. Cancel it and allow someone else to take the spot. Personally, I appreciate the honesty and early cancellation.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I don’t see how that person could affect your application at other places once the SLOE is written without making himself and their program look petty. You don’t want to go there for residency. If you have enough interviews elsewhere to feel comfortable canceling that one, I say do it. I wouldn’t waste your money and both of your time interviewing at a program you won’t rank.
This process is nuts. It makes all of us other think everything.

Yep

 

[narcan't]

No. Why would they care? Seriously. Programs have no interest in having their time wasted by interviewing someone who isn't going to rank them, any more than you would appreciate having a program interview you if they didn't have any interest in ranking you. Why waste eachothers time. Cancel it and allow someone else to take the spot. Personally, I appreciate the honesty and early cancellation.

I didn't think they would care but this process makes us paranoid. Thanks for the input, cancelling now! Hopefully one of you folks can get it!

 

[narcan't]

Yep

I don’t see how that person could affect your application at other places once the SLOE is written without making himself and their program look petty. You don’t want to go there for residency. If you have enough interviews elsewhere to feel comfortable canceling that one, I say do it. I wouldn’t waste your money and both of your time interviewing at a program you won’t rank.
This process is nuts. It makes all of us other think everything.

I guess rumors about PDs talking to each other? This process makes me paranoid. Thanks for your input!

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I guess rumors about PDs talking to each other? This process makes me paranoid. Thanks for your input!

Yeah but think about what you were paranoid about for a second. First of all, its not like there is a cabal of PDs that are all best friends, talk every day, and share stories about students to one another. Second, even if there was, you are one of 700 or more applicants to any given program. Why would they honestly be so hurt by you not wanting to go to their program that they would tell all the other PDs in their PD super group?

Remember, even if a PD was super angry about a student cancelling (they aren’t), how would they know where else you applied to in order to contact the PDs there? Or are they going to contact every program in the country to warn them that you cancelled an interview? I’d imagine nearly every PD in the country cancelled some of their interviews. Almost everyone cancels at least one of their interviews. I can’t imagine how crazy it would come accross if there was a lunatic PD out there emailing programs to stay away from a student because they cancelled an interview.

I’ve not been doing this forever, but I’m not a rookie at this job either. I can tell you, I’ve had a PD contact me one time during match season, it was about my opinion on a candidate that rotated but didn’t get a SLOE and they were just looking for my opinion of them to see if it matched theres. That’s it. No PD has ever contacted me or our PD to talk negatively or warn us about a student. I would literally be shocked if any program had the time to be so petty to try to ruin the career of a student that cancelled.

Do not worry about this at all.

 

[Apollyon]

For the past 20 years at least.

Well, when I applied 16 years ago, the model of the SLOE had just come out, and no one - no one - required one.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Well, when I applied 16 years ago, the model of the SLOE had just come out, and no one - no one - required one.

It must have become adopted quickly, because when I was applying 14 years ago, my advisor told me I needed to get two SLOEs.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

No. It has nothing to do with being a top program. Top programs are getting top candidates who are rotating and ranking highly other top programs. Which means they still aren't going to match all their top candidates. Most programs go into the middle of their list to fill out their class. But a top programs middle of their list has people on it that would be top of the list at other places.

I'm not certain what to make of the CORD statement about 40-100, that seems like a broad number so it's hard to know what to make of that. I would venture to guess most programs aren't dipping into the lower 1/3 of their list (70-100) but I could be wrong.

 

[CardiacLion]

Anyone else feeling "meh" about their interviews? I feel like I've been pretty open and candid with my interviewers in terms of answering the questions they ask: (f.e. what you like to do for fun, why EM, why this program). But I am really not trying to "stand out." I feel like most of my interviews have just been a friendly, human, colloquial conversation - but nothing much more than that. Some are short interviews and some are long.

I've only been told good things about my application, so I'm not sure if I'm just looking too into all this lol.

 

[Waterlover]

Anyone else feeling "meh" about their interviews? I feel like I've been pretty open and candid with my interviewers in terms of answering the questions they ask: (f.e. what you like to do for fun, why EM, why this program). But I am really not trying to "stand out." I feel like most of my interviews have just been a friendly, human, colloquial conversation - but nothing much more than that. Some are short interviews and some are long.

I've only been told good things about my application, so I'm not sure if I'm just looking too into all this lol.

This sounds like how interviews normally go?? Do you mean you feel meh about the places you're interviewing at? Or meh about the impression you feel like you're leaving on places?

 

[CardiacLion]

This sounds like how interviews normally go?? Do you mean you feel meh about the places you're interviewing at? Or meh about the impression you feel like you're leaving on places?

Meh about the impression I'm leaving. My conversations are usually about my hobbies, why I chose EM, and the generic why this program - so I think it's pretty on par with how most interviews go. I've gotten along well with almost all of my interviewers, usually always making them laugh or smile at one point throughout the interview.

But for some reason I feel like if I don't specifically get positive feedback on the interview itself from the faculty member, it means that I did poorly. Which I guess is a false assumption?

LOL. Ugh. I think I'm overthinking it. Can match day come already lol.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Yeah you are reading too much into this.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

It's not already determined. How could it be? A candidates rank is, afterall, dependent on how the program will rank other candidates as well. So until all interviews are over, your rank won't be determined. Now granted, after interview day you have an idea what region of the list a candidate will fall, but there has to be some type of overall rank list restructure at the end once you've interviewed all the candidates. Definitely having a good late rotation could boost your chances if you do really well.

 

[JohnnyBlaze2020]

I have a general question for anyone who can provide input. I’ll be entering the match as a couple with my partner. We are applying EM and OB/gyn. In total, I’ve recieved 16 IVs and she has recieved 14 IVs but we only end up with 12 different combinations that would allow for us to live with one another and complete residency. I know the match data shows 95% match for last years couples. But there is no data showing how many programs should be ranked in order to have a certain percentage of matching. I had 15 IVs by November 1st but really haven’t had any offers or waitlist invites since then. I don’t know why it has come to a hault for me. Any and all advice or input would be appreciated. Thank you!

 

[DrOMG]

Where can I find the percentage of applicants applying to EM that get their top choice or top 3? I've been quickly looking through the NBME match data but can't find it and I'm too lazy to continue plowing if someone here already knows.

 

[ShowtimeKaner88]

Where can I find the percentage of applicants applying to EM that get their top choice or top 3? I've been quickly looking through the NBME match data but can't find it and I'm too lazy to continue plowing if someone here already knows.

It was around 80% last year for within top 3. Something like 49% #1, 19%ish #2, and 11% for #3.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

It was around 80% last year for within top 3. Something like 49% #1, 19%ish #2, and 11% for #3.

The 49/19/10 numbers were not specialty specific. Its all US MD candidates that entered the match. Hard to say what the specialty specific numbers are, the NRMP doesn't disclose that.

It's definitely not 80% though for EM because only 78% of people applying to EM matched in EM last year (see below for data).

There were a total of 2265 matches into spots in EM in the 2018 match with 2901 total applicants. That means there was a 78% match rate (2265/2901) for people applying to EM.

1606 US MD 4th years matched in EM, a success rate of 87% (1606/1838).
For DOs in particular, 457 DOs matched in EM with a success rate of 82% (457/558)
For US IMGs, 77 matched in EM with a success rate of 46% (77/166)
For Non-US IMGs, 28 matched in EM with a success rate of 41% (28/68)

 

[ShowtimeKaner88]

That's a misleading statistic. 80% of people applying didn't get one of their top 3 because only 78% of people applying to EM matched in EM last year (see below for data). I seems likely that 80% of people that matched in EM got one of their top 3, as opposed to 80% that applied.

There were a total of 2265 matches into spots in EM in the 2018 match.

There were 2901 total applicants who applied to EM including:
- 1838 US MD grads
- 1063 others (DOs, reapplicants, IMGs)

That means there was a 78% match rate (2265/2901) for people applying to EM.

1606 US MD 4th years matched in EM, a success rate of 87% (1606/1838).
659 other candidates (DOs, reapplicants, IMGs) matched in EM with a success rate of 62% (659/1063)

Now, before all the DOs in the crowd freak out about that last number, realize the NRMP lumps that other category altogether when looking at the number of applicants. They do show that 484 DOs matched EM, compared to 66 reapplicants, 80 USIMGs, and 29 IMGs. So DO's took up the vast majority of the "other" matches, but the NRMP doesn't breakdown exactly how many DOs applied, vs reapplicants, IMGs, etc. So you can't calculate an exact percentage for each group. My guess is, the match rate is probably around 70% or so for DO's last year in EM, but that's a total guess.

Oh I was just referring to those applicants who successfully matched. I was just looking at one of the tables recently.

My bad on not clarifying that detail though, I’m gonna try and find the link for the table and I’ll share it.

 

[ShowtimeKaner88]

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/2017-Match-by-the-Numbers.pdf

This is from 2017 though.