2019 Match Results

[AnatomyGrey12]

if you look at kcu website of ortho residencies, the St. Luke's Des Peres Hospital is closing, but the St. Mary's one is still open. The first year residents, 2/3 of are KCU grads so that's neat. But, the rest of the PGY years, none of them are from KCU. So I have to concur with the above that it doesn't really matter where you go. If you go to KCU, it might be easier to get audition rotations, however.

Residency

Kansas City University of Medicine’s College of Osteopathic’s graduates are highly sought after and are historically successful in securing a residency Match.

www.kcumb.edu

Audition rotations are generally first come first serve once you meet the pre-specified criteria

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[AsparagusSoup]

^ In addition to above, we have a ton of people who come in die hard ortho then magically change their minds once they have experience (and scores) back. Don't necessarily pick a school based on specialty choice because it will change many times

I get that, 100%. Was more so just going to ask what they got involved with and what they felt were the most beneficial experiences at KCU for getting into a top-tier specialty. I figured I’d shoot for ortho now and see where I land as classes progress (and my interests)

 

[NecFasc92]

I get that, 100%. Was more so just going to ask what they got involved with and what they felt were the most beneficial experiences at KCU for getting into a top-tier specialty. I figured I’d shoot for ortho now and see where I land as classes progress (and my interests)

I would buff up your app and reapply to US MD. The days of matching ortho as a DO are dwindling. In 4-5 years I think it’s quite logical to predict it to be near non-existent

 

[AsparagusSoup]

I would buff up your app and reapply to US MD. The days of matching ortho as a DO are dwindling. In 4-5 years I think it’s quite logical to predict it to be near non-existent

Thank you for the honesty

 

[Dr.Bruh]

I would buff up your app and reapply to US MD. The days of matching ortho as a DO are dwindling. In 4-5 years I think it’s quite logical to predict it to be near non-existent

That’s just silly. Nearly all of the AOA ortho programs were able to convert and some were able to increase spots too. Def harder than it was in the AOA match days but DOs will still be matching ortho for years to come. These programs have mostly DO PDs and don’t take any applicant seriously that doesn’t audition.

 

[NecFasc92]

That’s just silly. Nearly all of the AOA ortho programs were able to convert and some were able to increase spots too. Def harder than it was in the AOA match days but DOs will still be matching ortho for years to come. These programs have mostly DO PDs and don’t take any applicant seriously that doesn’t audition.

Nothing silly about it. I know 4-5 of those programs personally who have filled solely with MD applicants last cycle and this cycle aren’t interviewing DOs. Also, I have close friends this cycle applying ortho with crazy stats who have ZERO invites

You have no idea what you’re talking about

 

[MADD!!!]

It will only get harder for DO’s. Yea maybe the PD’s are DO’s, but I’ve already seen one PD for Urology out and replaced with an MD and the residency is all filled with MD’s. (Former AOA program)

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I would buff up your app and reapply to US MD. The days of matching ortho as a DO are dwindling. In 4-5 years I think it’s quite logical to predict it to be near non-existent

Lol

Nothing silly about it. I know 4-5 of those programs personally who have filled solely with MD applicants last cycle and this cycle aren’t interviewing DOs. Also, I have close friends this cycle applying ortho with crazy stats who have ZERO invites

You have no idea what you’re talking about

Might have something to do with the fact that most of the DO places haven’t sent out invites yet...

You don’t know what you’re talking about. Will ortho still be an uphill battle and get even harder with the influx of increased candidates? Yes. Non-existent? Lmao, that's just ignorance of how the DO ortho world works.

 

[Epilepsy365]

That’s just silly. Nearly all of the AOA ortho programs were able to convert and some were able to increase spots too. Def harder than it was in the AOA match days but DOs will still be matching ortho for years to come. These programs have mostly DO PDs and don’t take any applicant seriously that doesn’t audition.

There is some truth to @NecFasc92. Program leadership does change, and usually that goes with a chance in philosophy. It helps to know which program is historically DO friendly. But, in today age, you need to first make sure that your scores are within the +/- 10 its of the specialty average for both USMLEs, get good letters, and broadly apply to all programs whose Step 1/2 cutoffs are below yours.

Even in a DO friendly field like Neurology, I personally feel that some MD programs have extended IIs to MDs with similar stats to mine, but not to me. It is what it is. For a field like Ortho, you def need to beat your competition in all aspects in order to even be considered on equivalent playing field as a MD with lower stats.

 

[PorkChopsOG]

Does anyone know any of the KCU people who matched ortho? I got accepted for next year and deciding if KCU is the right school for me

What intere$t$ you $o much about Ortho?
I would recommend you being open minded first 2 years, get your board scores back first, and then decide if ortho is right for you.
But KCU has a very good anatomy fellowship with a lot of research projects that people serious about ortho/gensurg participate in. That will be your best bet.

 

[AsparagusSoup]

What intere$t$ you $o much about Ortho?
I would recommend you being open minded first 2 years, get your board scores back first, and then decide if ortho is right for you.
But KCU has a very good anatomy fellowship with a lot of research projects that people serious about ortho/gensurg participate in. That will be your best bet.

I am open-minded, but I know that ortho is extremely tough to get into, so id rather plan for that. I also do have relevant interests in ortho besides the salary. Thank you for the advice

 

[NecFasc92]

Lol


Might have something to do with the fact that most of the DO places haven’t sent out invites yet...

You don’t know what you’re talking about. Will ortho still be an uphill battle and get even harder with the influx of increased candidates? Yes. Non-existent? Lmao, that's just ignorance of how the DO ortho world works.

Considering I have 2 ortho DO PD relatives I do

 

[AlteredScale]

I get that, 100%. Was more so just going to ask what they got involved with and what they felt were the most beneficial experiences at KCU for getting into a top-tier specialty. I figured I’d shoot for ortho now and see where I land as classes progress (and my interests)

KCU has a name going for itself because we have so many grads in so many specialties in so many locations that programs would probably feel comfortable taking from a known name.

For ortho specifically, 2/3 in the current class are from KCU. Applications for audition rotations specifically for that program do in fact ask "why do you wish to rotate here" in which coming from KCU can be a plus since you can say you're from the area and you know the people in that class.

But KCU isn't special in that regard as I am sure there are a good amount of other DO schools that have ties to smaller ortho programs that are now ACGME accred but will continue looking for DO applicants. It's so hard to say with generalization if all these programs will start trickling in some MD people as well now that they will actually have those apps potentially submitted. But doubt even if that occurs that many competitive MD ortho applicants are going to be ranking highly (if at all) these tiny places since many want to continue specializing in a particular field.

Don't expect a bite from MD ortho even with exceptional grades because there's so much more that goes on with getting into those programs (both academics and politics/prestige) that any DO applicant really understands. Do not expect anything going for ortho and do plan for backup. Doesn't matter what DO school you go to. I know of one person that did a ton of research at a KU-w with literally the highest scores in our class and running circles around others in auditions there. He did not receive an interview despite all that. Again, don't expect anything.

 

[Ho0v-man]

What intere$t$ you $o much about Ortho?
I would recommend you being open minded first 2 years, get your board scores back first, and then decide if ortho is right for you.
But KCU has a very good anatomy fellowship with a lot of research projects that people serious about ortho/gensurg participate in. That will be your best bet.

Sadly in our screwed up system if you’re not gunning for ortho in preclinical and trying to get some pubs, you’re behind by the time you hit third year.

 

[AlteredScale]

Sadly in our screwed up system if you’re not gunning for ortho in preclinical and trying to get some pubs, you’re behind by the time you hit third year.

You mean you don't have SSP, 700+/250+, and 6 "pubs" (all in the school research journal)?

 

[MADD!!!]

Just to add some real world complexity to this—- it may still be easier to match Ortho as a DO vs MD. How? DO Ortho PD’s still value audition rotations and your personality much higher than scores. So if you meet a certain cut-off (like 550-600 level 1 and 230+ step 1) you may still have a shot as a DO when in MD world with a 230s step 1 score your chances are significantly less in the MD world.

These things rarely get talked about on SDN, but there’s more than 1 strategy to getting to your goal.

Edit: maybe easier isn’t the best term, but rather if you’re not the strongest standardized test taker.

 

[Epilepsy365]

Just to add some real world complexity to this—- it may still be easier to match Ortho as a DO vs MD. How? DO Ortho PD’s still value audition rotations and your personality much higher than scores. So if you meet a certain cut-off (like 550-600 level 1 and 230+ step 1) you may still have a shot as a DO when in MD world with a 230s step 1 score your chances are significantly less in the MD world.

These things rarely get talked about on SDN, but there’s more than 1 strategy to getting to your goal.

Edit: maybe easier isn’t the best term, but rather if you’re not the strongest standardized test taker.

Please don’t give advice about the match or the current residency application environment especially when you are a MS III or lower.

 

[Dr.Bruh]

KCU has a name going for itself because we have so many grads in so many specialties in so many locations that programs would probably feel comfortable taking from a known name.

For ortho specifically, 2/3 in the current class are from KCU. Applications for audition rotations specifically for that program do in fact ask "why do you wish to rotate here" in which coming from KCU can be a plus since you can say you're from the area and you know the people in that class.

But KCU isn't special in that regard as I am sure there are a good amount of other DO schools that have ties to smaller ortho programs that are now ACGME accred but will continue looking for DO applicants. It's so hard to say with generalization if all these programs will start trickling in some MD people as well now that they will actually have those apps potentially submitted. But doubt even if that occurs that many competitive MD ortho applicants are going to be ranking highly (if at all) these tiny places since many want to continue specializing in a particular field.

Don't expect a bite from MD ortho even with exceptional grades because there's so much more that goes on with getting into those programs (both academics and politics/prestige) that any DO applicant really understands. Do not expect anything going for ortho and do plan for backup. Doesn't matter what DO school you go to. I know of one person that did a ton of research at a KU-w with literally the highest scores in our class and running circles around others in auditions there. He did not receive an interview despite all that. Again, don't expect anything.

Any idea how the one dude matched UConn ortho last year? I know he killed boards but any idea how many interviews he got to feel comfortable skipping the AOA match?

 

[AlteredScale]

Any idea how the one dude matched UConn ortho last year? I know he killed boards but any idea how many interviews he got to feel comfortable skipping the AOA match?

I have no clue how many ACGME ii he got. All I know is had very VERY significant ties to that program from previous work experiences which may have helped him make his decision.

 

[You shall know the Truth]

Does anyone know any of the KCU people who matched ortho? I got accepted for next year and deciding if KCU is the right school for me

Do MD!

 

[You shall know the Truth]

It will only get harder for DO’s. Yea maybe the PD’s are DO’s, but I’ve already seen one PD for Urology out and replaced with an MD and the residency is all filled with MD’s. (Former AOA program)

Same thing in ent, the PD is changed to an MD.

 

[MADD!!!]

Please don’t give advice about the match or the current residency application environment especially when you are a MS III or lower.

plz stop commenting on my posts. You’re really annoying.

and for the record there are multiple people on this thread commenting who are in my shoes. @AnatomyGrey12 being a perfect example.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Just to add some real world complexity to this—- it may still be easier to match Ortho as a DO vs MD. How? DO Ortho PD’s still value audition rotations and your personality much higher than scores. So if you meet a certain cut-off (like 550-600 level 1 and 230+ step 1) you may still have a shot as a DO when in MD world with a 230s step 1 score your chances are significantly less in the MD world.

These things rarely get talked about on SDN, but there’s more than 1 strategy to getting to your goal.

Edit: maybe easier isn’t the best term, but rather if you’re not the strongest standardized test taker.

10 years ago or so that was actually the case. Now that is far from the truth. The match rate to DO ortho is around 50% if not lower. You are right that a non-700 COMLEX doesn’t mean you are out of the game, but for every one Jay matches with a 570 there are 5 that don’t. Honestly that kinda plays true regardless of score bracket, but a high score will never hurt you.

Considering I have 2 ortho DO PD relatives I do

Cool. You aren’t the only one here with above average knowledge about this... your comments are simply wrong.

 

[MADD!!!]

10 years ago or so that was actually the case. Now that is far from the truth. The match rate to DO ortho is around 50% if not lower. You are right that a non-700 COMLEX doesn’t mean you are out of the game, but for every one Jay matches with a 570 there are 5 that don’t. Honestly that kinda plays true regardless of score bracket, but a high score will never hurt you.



Cool. You aren’t the only one here with above average knowledge about this... your comments are simply wrong.

Its hard to tell because there is no data right now to show COMLEX data trends to match rate specifically for DO applicants applying to AOA ortho. Yes a high score doesn’t hurt — but I talked to the PD at my schools ortho directly and he said (along with other PD’s he said too) that they really won’t rank ppl unless they’ve done auditions with them personally, and at that point they want to see how well you work, get along with everyone else, etc.

And you might say 10 years ago that was true, but I can tell you at my school the same PD’s have been here for ortho and Surg for probably 10 years or longer.
Also on that note it’s actually really funny he was addressing a group session we had about residency interviews and he was wondering why all of his applicants now do much better or focus more on USMLE than COMLEX. This is n=1 but it just goes to show the dichotomy of what you read on SDN/ what goes on in med students minds vs a PD who has been doing this since before we were born.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

And you might say 10 years ago that was true, but I can tell you at my school the same PD’s have been here for ortho and Surg for probably 10 years or longer.

It doesn’t matter at all who the PDs are. 10 years ago it was about a 1.3 applicant to spot ratio, now it’s roughly 2.3 to a spot. The DO ortho match is a bloodbath now.

 

[Ho0v-man]

It doesn’t matter at all who the PDs are. 10 years ago it was about a 1.3 applicant to spot ratio, now it’s roughly 2.3 to a spot. The DO ortho match is a bloodbath now.

It’s definitely gonna be interesting. On the one hand there’s more competition from the sheer number of applicants. On the other hand, I’m guessing a not insignificant portion of those applicants think that just being a chill dude/dudette on an audition will get them the spot over the high-scoring, well published super star who is also chill on an audition.

And who knows, maybe that will hold up?Because the folks neurotic enough to be legit ortho applicants weren’t learning about the merger for the first time during preclinical like half of our classmates. They’ve been preparing for this storm before it was on most people’s radar. So maybe rockstars like you will have more success on the MD side of things opening up spots for the weaker applicants.

Literally no one knows. There’s just not enough data for anything but a good guess. This is gonna be the craziest match in DO history.

 

[gyngyn]

All members are free to give their opinions without regard to year of education or training.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

It’s definitely gonna be interesting. On the one hand there’s more competition from the sheer number of applicants. On the other hand, I’m guessing a not insignificant portion of those applicants think that just being a chill dude/dudette on an audition will get them the spot over the high-scoring, well published super star who is also chill on an audition.

And who knows, maybe that will hold up?Because the folks neurotic enough to be legit ortho applicants weren’t learning about the merger for the first time during preclinical like half of our classmates. They’ve been preparing for this storm before it was on most people’s radar. So maybe rockstars like you will have more success on the MD side of things opening up spots for the weaker applicants.

Literally no one knows. There’s just not enough data for anything but a good guess. This is gonna be the craziest match in DO history.

This next charting outcomes is going to be very very telling honestly. Across the board.

 

[Med.School.Hopeful]

Pick the cheapest one with the curriculum that will work best for you to succeed.

Realistically, the DO school you graduate from has little to do with how you match, except in that the region you go to school is more likely to be the region you match/get interviews, and as others have said certain school curricula can make it harder for you to study independently for boards.

EDIT: So I will say that if you are concerned with being a marginal student, one of the biggest advantages a school can offer you is affiliated GME, and rotations at said GME in 3rd year. People hire who they know, and if you rotate through a residency program and impress people that can trump a marginal board score.

I have 8 interviews to DO programs right now so I'm gonna have some decisions to make. Excuse my ignorance but what is the point of paying attention to a school's match list (and making this thread) if it doesn't matter? I've been told by some people that its something you should really look for.

 

[Isoval]

I have 8 interviews to DO programs right now so I'm gonna have some decisions to make. Excuse my ignorance but what is the point of paying attention to a school's match list (and making this thread) if it doesn't matter? I've been told by some people that its something you should really look for.

You should look for trends. Schools that match people to certain programs year over year are, obviously, known to those programs.

If the school is only known to “low tier” programs, then the chances you end up at one is comparatively higher. Conversely, if you school matches people to Cleveland Clinic or JHU every year, the chances they take your application seriously are comparatively higher.

What @AnatomyGrey12 is trying to get at is that your matching performance is dependent on YOU. It doesn’t matter where Jimmy of C/O 2020 went for residency, you can match better or worse based on your own performance. Your school generally has little to do with how you perform on board exams, which make up a large majority of the residency application package.

 

[sab3156]

I have 8 interviews to DO programs right now so I'm gonna have some decisions to make. Excuse my ignorance but what is the point of paying attention to a school's match list (and making this thread) if it doesn't matter? I've been told by some people that its something you should really look for.

A lot of the DO match lists are very similar. DO schools do not have any positive reputation in the ACGME world, outside of certain programs "knowing" about them if they are very close geographically. You should go to the school that is generally well-established and cheapest. Going to a particular school will not help you in the match, unless you are going to a very good MD school.

 

[getfat]

I have 8 interviews to DO programs right now so I'm gonna have some decisions to make. Excuse my ignorance but what is the point of paying attention to a school's match list (and making this thread) if it doesn't matter? I've been told by some people that its something you should really look for.

You should look for trends. Schools that match people to certain programs year over year are, obviously, known to those programs.

Delete

 

[Epilepsy365]

Another note to importance of match trends. Not just where the last class matched.

How the people above you performed intern year is important.

One intern at my site graduated from my school. No previous residents from my specific school. Apparently has been an absolute dud on the wards. I find it pretty unlikely they are going to rank to match anybody from my school for this residency.

Chill out on calling an intern a dud. Intern year just started three months ago.

 

[sab3156]

Another note to importance of match trends. Not just where the last class matched.

How the people above you performed intern year is important.

One intern at my site graduated from my school. No previous residents from my specific school. Apparently has been an absolute dud on the wards. I find it pretty unlikely they are going to rank to match anybody from my school for this residency.

Considering the fact that you will never get access to reliable information about resident performance, your post is pretty strange. And come on, you are calling someone out based on what? Your interactions with them and people who have nothing better to do than talk **** about interns? You are not their residency PD or faculty member and I doubt you know the faculty well enough for them to speak ill of a fresh resident in front of you.

 

[getfat]

Chill out on calling an intern a dud. Intern year just started three months ago.

Considering the fact that you will never get access to reliable information about resident performance, your post is pretty strange. And come on, you are calling someone out based on what? Your interactions with them and people who have nothing better to do than talk **** about interns? You are not their residency PD or faculty member and I doubt you know the faculty well enough for them to speak ill of a fresh resident in front of you.

Agreed "dud" might not have been the right term. Appreciate the critique.

 

[hallowmann]

So I was asking a chief resident of a categorical program about this one DO intern they had. They had them for their first call shift on the service (literally kid has never stepped on the wards here), and they were like, that kid was pretty poor. They really didn't ask enough or pertinent HPI stuff. I had to remind the chief what we were like intern year. All interns are terrible in the beginning. You spend maybe 5 mos with your brained turned off coasting through M4, then get dropped in a new system with no idea what you're doing.

As of now (4 mos in), that intern is solidly in the middle or a bit above the middle of the pack of the intern class. There is a steep learning curve, and most people adjust, but it takes time, especially if a lot of your early rotations are off-service rotations.

As far as the value of match lists go, it gives you an idea if there is a specific program you're interested in, but more than anything, these lists serve to give us hope that DOs aren't matching poorly and continue to match in varied specialities. Match lists aren't super high on the priority list for choosing schools, unless you want a very specific program or a lot of people aren't placing or are just getting intern years.

 

[AlteredScale]

So I was asking a chief resident of a categorical program about this one DO intern they had. They had them for their first call shift on the service (literally kid has never stepped on the wards here), and they were like, that kid was pretty poor. They really didn't ask enough or pertinent HPI stuff. I had to remind the chief what we were like intern year. All interns are terrible in the beginning. You spend maybe 5 mos with your brained turned off coasting through M4, then get dropped in a new system with no idea what you're doing.

As of now (4 mos in), that intern is solidly in the middle or a bit above the middle of the pack of the intern class. There is a steep learning curve, and most people adjust, but it takes time, especially if a lot of your early rotations are off-service rotations.

As far as the value of match lists go, it gives you an idea if there is a specific program you're interested in, but more than anything, these lists serve to give us hope that DOs aren't matching poorly and continue to match in varied specialities. Match lists aren't super high on the priority list for choosing schools, unless you want a very specific program or a lot of people aren't placing or are just getting intern years.

Absolutely. Come March/April many DO schools state on their social media that they " had 100% placement for residency" which is great, everyone has jobs. But it's important to know what percent of those jobs are 1-year prelim/TRI (excluding those matching to advanced spots) which can help gauge performance at a school if there is a CONSISTENT percentage of students entering this type of match for post-grad.

 

[Epilepsy365]

Absolutely. Come March/April many DO schools state on their social media that they " had 100% placement for residency" which is great, everyone has jobs. But it's important to know what percent of those jobs are 1-year prelim/TRI (excluding those matching to advanced spots) which can help gauge performance at a school if there is a CONSISTENT percentage of students entering this type of match for post-grad.

Yup. Pro tips to all the MS III and lower kids out there especially if you're looking for no placement rate:

Look at the number of spots for 1-year prelim/TRI. That's the real no placement rate right there bc I guarantee you that if some of those kids are legit matches for Opthal or Derm, they would be listed in the Derm or Opthal section instead.

 

[Dr.Bruh]

Yup. Pro tips to all the MS III and lower kids out there especially if you're looking for no placement rate:

Look at the number of spots for 1-year prelim/TRI. That's the real no placement rate right there bc I guarantee you that if some of those kids are legit matches for Opthal or Derm, they would be listed in the Derm or Opthal section instead.

You’d be suprised actually. KCU had a acgme Derm a few years back that your never know about based on their match list bc it was just listed as a prelim. There’s even an Ophtho match this year that isn’t our the current match list.

 

[AlteredScale]

You’d be suprised actually. KCU had a acgme Derm a few years back that your never know about based on their match list bc it was just listed as a prelim. There’s even an Ophtho match this year that isn’t our the current match list.

Quite frustrating this school doesn't actually list an accurate match list. Yet they can write "University of Chicago - Internal Medicine" when in fact it was not UC, it was an affiliate of UC...

 

[Cath Up]

Yup. Pro tips to all the MS III and lower kids out there especially if you're looking for no placement rate:

Look at the number of spots for 1-year prelim/TRI. That's the real no placement rate right there bc I guarantee you that if some of those kids are legit matches for Opthal or Derm, they would be listed in the Derm or Opthal section instead.

This comment is great advice for people looking at match lists. I think it's important to clarify though that some (maybe many?) DO programs don't list who has additional/categorical matches, so the 1-year prelim/TRI list is some unknown % mix of people who matched just fine and those who need to figure out additional GME. I just don't want people to think these lists are pure 1-year matches/scrambles, though it may be a majority.

 

[Scrubs101]

It doesn’t matter at all who the PDs are. 10 years ago it was about a 1.3 applicant to spot ratio, now it’s roughly 2.3 to a spot. The DO ortho match is a bloodbath now.

We had a meeting with our advisors recently and we were informed that the majority of our students that went unmatched last year were 600+ comlex going for competitive specialties. Yet I know of people with multiple board failures matching their #1 ranked FM spot.

As Big Daddy Kane once said "Pimpin aint easy"

Also the merger isnt what's screwing us the most (pretty stoked about the # of programs making it through tbh), it's this insane massive proliferation of US medical schools

 

[Epilepsy365]

We had a meeting with our advisors recently and we were informed that the majority of our students that went unmatched last year were 600+ comlex going for competitive specialties. Yet I know of people with multiple board failures matching their #1 ranked FM spot.

As Big Daddy Kane once said "Pimpin aint easy"

Also the merger isnt what's screwing us the most (pretty stoked about the # of programs making it through tbh), it's this insane massive proliferation of US medical schools

Got to play that music in the background in the OR when you're the big boss ortho doc. Then, you go and tell your story to the nurse, medical student, and PA:

"Now, back in my days..."

LOL I can see it already.

 

[Mass Effect]

You’d be suprised actually. KCU had a acgme Derm a few years back that your never know about based on their match list bc it was just listed as a prelim. There’s even an Ophtho match this year that isn’t our the current match list.

KCU has had at least 2 or 3 ACGME derm matches in the past 6 years. They also had an ACGME plastics match several years ago. LECOM has had some pretty good matches too that aren't always explicitly stated.