2020-2021 Waitlist Support Thread

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ibnalkamil1990 said:
Not entirely true. If you want any IM/Peds/FM/Gas/EM program with no location preference maybe. Many DO schools don't have departments in more competitive specialties, a few don't even have IM departments which is ridiculous.

While high stats premeds are likely to do well in (DO) med school, nevertheless, they might be 95% close to matching ENT or Ophtho and get displaced by a more competitive applicant, then end up SOAPing to gen surg or community IM. The MD tag by itself may have been enough to tip the scales (assuming identical board scores and ECs).

I can tell you about a handful of my friend's classmates at DO school who busted their ass doing research, volunteering, high boards just to barely scrape into rads and gas while people from my school and other nearby schools match them all day long at "better" programs (Pay, location, prestige) without any of the aforementioned ECs.
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I'm not sure if a WL thread, where people are already discouraged and coming to terms with their current acceptances or lack thereof, is the best place for this assessment. Particularly in response to someone saying they were content with their school option.
 
thebillymed said:
I know someone who was told that they will receive their final decision after orientation starts in a few days
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That is hardly shocking. If anything, it means this person is near the top of the list, even though, unfortunately, the odds of receiving a call are not good if classes are starting in a few days. Whether or not people are explicitly told this, it happens at EVERY school, with at least a select few people who are not released from WLs until after classes begin.

No school releases its entire WL until after classes begin. The alternative would require schools to have empty seats in the class if people withdraw at the very last minute, and we all know that would be the absolutely worst outcome for schools. Especially when it costs them nothing to keep a few people hanging until after classes begin.
 
456432 said:
It’s the last weekday of the last full week in May, and my WLs haven’t budged. 🙁

I want to say that WL movement was just low this year, but I’m sure that’s what applicants say every year.
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I think it was very low this year. Remember when we all thought WL was going to be significant this cycle?
 
lanadelgay124 said:
I'm not sure if a WL thread, where people are already discouraged and coming to terms with their current acceptances or lack thereof, is the best place for this assessment. Particularly in response to someone saying they were content with their school option.
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I agree. One battle at a time, in my opinion.

Getting in is a struggle - we can deal with residency stuff after the dust settles.
 
KnightDoc said:
Well, then with DO, "committing" does not involve the standard Webster definition of the word. 🙂

In the MD world, nothing is automatic. When you CTE, YOU are supposed to withdraw from all WLs. Not only is it considered unethical not to do so, but the WL schools can see the CTE (but not which school), so they will know you were supposed to withdraw and didn't. If they are playing by the so-called rules, they will never call you off the WL after seeing you CTE elsewhere, so there is simply no reason to screw around with this.

This has nothing to do with DO, which is a totally different system with different rules and expectations, and also has nothing to do with any so-called MD "commitments" that don't also involve a CTE selection on the AMCAS CYMS tool.
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Kinda dumb question but what’s CTE?
 
I just got my first A yesterday - ignored the dean's call twice because I thought it was spam until they texted me asking for me to pick up. Thank you to this forum for giving something to browse while I was sobbing and trying to rewrite my personal statement unsuccessfully. You guys are the real ones. I hope there is more movement to bless you all with the A you so deserve.
 
I know it's considered common knowledge on SDN that most pre-med advisors aren't very helpful but dang...mine was minimally helpful all cycle and then suddenly super helpful when I ended up with 4 WLs, and has now has ignored all my emails since 4/30 lol.

I've mostly come to terms with reapplying and most of my reapp is done but whenever I open my PS to edit it I freeze....anyone else relate/have advice on how to get past this?
 
Otterly said:
I know it's considered common knowledge on SDN that most pre-med advisors aren't very helpful but dang...mine was minimally helpful all cycle and then suddenly super helpful when I ended up with 4 WLs, and has now has ignored all my emails since 4/30 lol.

I've mostly come to terms with reapplying and most of my reapp is done but whenever I open my PS to edit it I freeze....anyone else relate/have advice on how to get past this?
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I'll take a stab at it -- Yes, you are absolutely in the game at the end of May with 4 WLs, but it's an irrefutable fact that the window is closing. That said, the issue comes down to how committed you are to reapplying right away if things don't work out?

Many schools recommend skipping a cycle to address whatever held you back this time around. Do you know what that was, and have you already addressed it, or is your issue simply one of the numbers?

If you think you might need to sit another cycle out, you're fine and you have all the time in the world. Otherwise, what are you waiting for?

Being sad, frustrated and hopeful is natural, but, if you are committed to reapplying this cycle, you have had a heads-up for over a month that it would be a distinct possibility. While submitting on Day One is certainly not essential, the way you get past your freeze is by realizing that the verification queue is steadily building every day, and literally thousands of people are already in ahead of you while you are frozen.

If that doesn't motivate you, you really might need to take a break. By the time you know for sure that you are not going to medical school this summer, it will be sometime in July or August, you will no longer be early, and will actually be bumping up against not even being on time for a reapp, depending on what the verification queue looks like then.

TBH, if I were you, I'd have either already decided to sit this cycle out, or I would have at least submitted one school in order to get verification going. Don't rush something that isn't ready, but there is no reason (or excuse) to hold a reapp until mid-July. Hopefully, this will motivate you to swallow hard and get going. Good luck!!
 
KnightDoc said:
I'll take a stab at it -- Yes, you are absolutely in the game at the end of May with 4 WLs, but it's an irrefutable fact that the window is closing. That said, the issue comes down to how committed you are to reapplying right away if things don't work out?

Many schools recommend skipping a cycle to address whatever held you back this time around. Do you know what that was, and have you already addressed it, or is your issue simply one of the numbers?

If you think you might need to sit another cycle out, you're fine and you have all the time in the world. Otherwise, what are you waiting for?

Being sad, frustrated and hopeful is natural, but, if you are committed to reapplying this cycle, you have had a heads-up for over a month that it would be a distinct possibility. While submitting on Day One is certainly not essential, the way you get past your freeze is by realizing that the verification queue is steadily building every day, and literally thousands of people are already in ahead of you while you are frozen.

If that doesn't motivate you, you really might need to take a break. By the time you know for sure that you are not going to medical school this summer, it will be sometime in July or August, you will no longer be early, and will actually be bumping up against not even being on time for a reapp, depending on what the verification queue looks like then.

TBH, if I were you, I'd have either already decided to sit this cycle out, or I would have at least submitted one school in order to get verification going. Don't rush something that isn't ready, but there is no reason (or excuse) to hold a reapp until mid-July. Hopefully, this will motivate you to swallow hard and get going. Good luck!!
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Just to poke my head into this discussion, how many WLs can you be on and still have a decent chance of acceptance? I'm personally on two WLs (though more like one since one of the schools has had very little waitlist movement - their words).
 
stardocscream said:
Just to poke my head into this discussion, how many WLs can you be on and still have a decent chance of acceptance? I'm personally on two WLs (though more like one since one of the schools has had very little waitlist movement - their words).
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Obviously it depends on the person, and the schools. There have been several people who were on one and received an A, while there are others on 4, 5, or more and are still waiting. I'm just going by the general rule of thumb that 3 IIs should result in an A because, statistically, it's true.

Of course, if someone is really bad at interviewing, that will mess with the numbers, as will having the bad luck of being on WLs at schools with little or no movement. As I have been trying to say all along, I'd be cautiously optimistic until it no longer makes sense, but, I'd never allow hope to get in the way of doing what I needed to do to put myself in the best possible position for a reapp (i.e., either skipping a cycle to fix a deficiency OR applying as early as possible to give myself every possible advantage).
 
stardocscream said:
Just to poke my head into this discussion, how many WLs can you be on and still have a decent chance of acceptance? I'm personally on two WLs (though more like one since one of the schools has had very little waitlist movement - their words).
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Last year I was on two waitlists and had to reapply this cycle so there is no guarantee even if you were on a lot of waitlists.
 
KnightDoc said:
I'll take a stab at it -- Yes, you are absolutely in the game at the end of May with 4 WLs, but it's an irrefutable fact that the window is closing. That said, the issue comes down to how committed you are to reapplying right away if things don't work out?

Many schools recommend skipping a cycle to address whatever held you back this time around. Do you know what that was, and have you already addressed it, or is your issue simply one of the numbers?

If you think you might need to sit another cycle out, you're fine and you have all the time in the world. Otherwise, what are you waiting for?

Being sad, frustrated and hopeful is natural, but, if you are committed to reapplying this cycle, you have had a heads-up for over a month that it would be a distinct possibility. While submitting on Day One is certainly not essential, the way you get past your freeze is by realizing that the verification queue is steadily building every day, and literally thousands of people are already in ahead of you while you are frozen.

If that doesn't motivate you, you really might need to take a break. By the time you know for sure that you are not going to medical school this summer, it will be sometime in July or August, you will no longer be early, and will actually be bumping up against not even being on time for a reapp, depending on what the verification queue looks like then.

TBH, if I were you, I'd have either already decided to sit this cycle out, or I would have at least submitted one school in order to get verification going. Don't rush something that isn't ready, but there is no reason (or excuse) to hold a reapp until mid-July. Hopefully, this will motivate you to swallow hard and get going. Good luck!!
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Hey! I appreciate you taking the time to respond!
I'm reapplying this cycle because my main weakness (confirmed by a few adcoms who gave me feedback) was low clinical hours which I increased substantially this year. They confirmed that everything else, including my volunteer hours which I was nervous about (and have worked on this past year), were strong, but those hours kept me down.

Regarding my PS, I was again given feedback from multiple people that it was strong, and connected the narrative of my app, and to just modify it to include my clinical exposure from my full time patient care job this year. If I was starting completely over than you bet i would've started it awhile ago, but I was advised not to do that. And maybe to clarify further, I've already outlined what those revisions will look like and started writing bits and pieces. It's just opening the old document to synthesize those changes where i'm hitting inertia, and as i've thought about it in response to your comment, I think this "freezing" is really just avoiding the emotions that come with not having gotten in. Ya know...good old fear of failure.

Also, some adcoms straight up told me to wait until mid June to start working on my reapp and one said that it wouldn't make a difference even if i waited until July to apply....I'm not gonna be THAT relaxed about the timeline haha, but I personally am not stressed about submitting in early June.
 
WatashiSauce said:
Last year I was on two waitlists and had to reapply this cycle so there is no guarantee even if you were on a lot of waitlists.
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Yeah. That terrifies me to no end. It is really luck and chance at this point.
 
KnightDoc said:
Obviously it depends on the person, and the schools. There have been several people who were on one and received an A, while there are others on 4, 5, or more and are still waiting. I'm just going by the general rule of thumb that 3 IIs should result in an A because, statistically, it's true.

Of course, if someone is really bad at interviewing, that will mess with the numbers, as will having the bad luck of being on WLs at schools with little or no movement. As I have been trying to say all along, I'd be cautiously optimistic until it no longer makes sense, but, I'd never allow hope to get in the way of doing what I needed to do to put myself in the best possible position for a reapp (i.e., either skipping a cycle to fix a deficiency OR applying as early as possible to give myself every possible advantage).
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Okay. I’m definitely planning on other things in case this cycle goes sour.

Luckily, my interview seems to have gone well (according to adcoms). However, their concern with me is over my record (multiple meh MCATs).

...and it seems that one of my schools moves quickly. They rank folks and then rank again if they expend the first list. They already expended the first list...but I wasn’t on the second, which is what concerns me.

I’m hoping that they move through the second list so they can start ranking again, but I’m worried that my meh MCAT (not to mention that I don’t live in the area of the school...and they do give preference to their region) makes my loss a foregone conclusion.
 
Otterly said:
Hey! I appreciate you taking the time to respond!
I'm reapplying this cycle because my main weakness (confirmed by a few adcoms who gave me feedback) was low clinical hours which I increased substantially this year. They confirmed that everything else, including my volunteer hours which I was nervous about (and have worked on this past year), were strong, but those hours kept me down.

Regarding my PS, I was again given feedback from multiple people that it was strong, and connected the narrative of my app, and to just modify it to include my clinical exposure from my full time patient care job this year. If I was starting completely over than you bet i would've started it awhile ago, but I was advised not to do that. And maybe to clarify further, I've already outlined what those revisions will look like and started writing bits and pieces. It's just opening the old document to synthesize those changes where i'm hitting inertia, and as i've thought about it in response to your comment, I think this "freezing" is really just avoiding the emotions that come with not having gotten in. Ya know...good old fear of failure.

Also, some adcoms straight up told me to wait until mid June to start working on my reapp and one said that it wouldn't make a difference even if i waited until July to apply....I'm not gonna be THAT relaxed about the timeline haha, but I personally am not stressed about submitting in early June.
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I totally get it -- that's why I was trying to motivate you to get past the freeze and just get yourself verified. Worst case, you are throwing away $170. Best case, if you need to apply, you are putting yourself in a position to be complete in the middle of July instead of the end of August. Will the 6 weeks matter? Probably not, but, why screw around on a reapp if it's avoidable?
 
stardocscream said:
Okay. I’m definitely planning on other things in case this cycle goes sour.

Luckily, my interview seems to have gone well (according to adcoms). However, their concern with me is over my record (multiple meh MCATs).

...and it seems that one of my schools moves quickly. They rank folks and then rank again if they expend the first list. They already expended the first list...but I wasn’t on the second, which is what concerns me.

I’m hoping that they move through the second list so they can start ranking again, but I’m worried that my meh MCAT (not to mention that I don’t live in the area of the school...and they do give preference to their region) makes my loss a foregone conclusion.
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Sorry to hear this. If you know MCATs are an issue, are you considering another one? If not, what's the plan?
 
KnightDoc said:
Sorry to hear this. If you know MCATs are an issue, are you considering another one? If not, what's the plan?
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I have other career stuff in mind.

Alas, I expanded a lot of MCATs already. That test has kicked my arse >.<.

If that was such a weakness, wonder why the school interviewed me? I would’ve thought they would’ve chased after somebody better.

I don’t know. I’m thankful that I didn’t get a post II R, but the waitlist is making me nervous overall.
 
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fogo said:
Is the 3 IIs > 1 A really a statistically significant thing? 4 WLs but I feel like odds are stacked heavily against me. Prepping for re apps of course 🥲
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Everyone says this but tbh it depends on where you’re wl at. I was on 2wl (one do one md) and recently got off the do one. It’s a crap shoot and having more wl may be significant but the schools themselves I feel are more important factors.
 
fogo said:
Is the 3 IIs > 1 A really a statistically significant thing? 4 WLs but I feel like odds are stacked heavily against me. Prepping for re apps of course 🥲
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I don't know how true this statement ever was, but this cycle was different.

Schools may have over-interviewed and over-waitlisted applicants in anticipation of a matriculation crisis that never manifested. Keep hoping for the best, but it's good that you're also preparing for the worst. Best of luck.
 
fogo said:
Is the 3 IIs > 1 A really a statistically significant thing? 4 WLs but I feel like odds are stacked heavily against me. Prepping for re apps of course 🥲
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Yes. Individual school II to A conversion rates (including people being called off the WL) range from as low as 15% to as high as around 75%, with the median being between 1/3 and 1/2. 3 IIs --> 1 A is a reasonable guesstimate. It's not precise, because some rock stars bat close to 1.000 while people with weak interpersonal skills get shut out no matter how many IIs they have, but, it's what we have, and it does end up panning out for a lot of people.

4 WLs should result in an A, but it's not precise and it's not a guarantee. At this point in the cycle, which schools you are talking about and your position on the their WLs are, of course, much more relevant than general statistics spread across a 60,000 person applicant pool. Although I have no doubt it sucks, just try to keep in mind that it's not over yet, and several people have popped onto the thread this week to report success.
 
stardocscream said:
I have other career stuff in mind.

Alas, I expanded a lot of MCATs already. That test has kicked my arse >.<.

If that was such a weakness, wonder why the school interviewed me? I would’ve thought they would’ve chased after somebody better.

I don’t know. I’m thankful that I didn’t get a post II R, but the waitlist is making me nervous overall.
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It's the @LizzyM staircase. You are good enough to score an II, but, according to your post-II feedback, your place on the staircase, including your interview performance and MCAT score, was not high enough to receive an A when compared to everyone else. A ton of people on SDN continuously make the mistake of believing that once they receive an II that the scoreboard rests to 0 and results are totally determined by interview performance.

Bottom line -- the MCAT was NOT such a weakness to preclude an II, but, after all was said and done, it was a big enough weakness to preclude an A. You can take another shot and maybe find success if a future pool is a little weaker, keeping in mind that this year's cycle was particularly brutal. Otherwise, you know what you need to fix. If you can't or don't want to, as you said, there are plenty of other satisfying career paths for bright, motivated people.
 
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swiftcoffeemed said:
Everyone says this but tbh it depends on where you’re wl at. I was on 2wl (one do one md) and recently got off the do one. It’s a crap shoot and having more wl may be significant but the schools themselves I feel are more important factors.
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This is VERY true. It's just math that says that more WLs mean more shots in the crap shoot! The most important factors are whether your particular schools are having movement and, of course, your place on the list.
 
KnightDoc said:
It's the @LizzyM staircase. You are good enough to score an II, but, according to your post-II feedback, your place on the staircase, including your interview performance and MCAT score, was not high enough to receive an A when compared to everyone else. A ton of people on SDN continuously make the mistake of believing that once they receive an II that the scoreboard rests to 0 and results are totally determined by interview performance.

Bottom line -- the MCAT was NOT such a weakness to preclude an II, but, after all was said and done, it was a big enough of a weakness to preclude an A. You can take another shot and maybe find success if a future pool is a little weaker, keeping in mind that this year's cycle was particularly brutal. Otherwise, you know what you need to fix. If you can't or don't want to, as you said, there are plenty of other satisfying career paths for bright, motivated people.
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Thanks for the explanation.

I do hope that adcoms still blesses me, despite the supposedly brutal cycle (It’s a DO school, so I’m hoping all the super good applicants go MD...or somewhere else).
 
KnightDoc said:
Yes. Individual school II to A conversion rates (including people being called off the WL) range from as low as 15% to as high as around 75%, with the median being between 1/3 and 1/2. 3 IIs --> 1 A is a reasonable guesstimate. It's not precise, because some rock stars bat close to 1.000 while people with weak interpersonal skills get shut out no matter how many IIs they have, but, it's what we have, and it does end up panning out for a lot of people.

4 WLs should result in an A, but it's not precise and it's not a guarantee. At this point in the cycle, which schools you are talking about and your position on the their WLs are, of course, much more relevant than general statistics spread across a 60,000 person applicant pool. Although I have no doubt it sucks, just try to keep in mind that it's not over yet, and several people have popped onto the thread this week to report success.
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Sigh. I am sad because I don't think I am socially inept... I'm a relatively normal human being who works hard. My interviews, I thought, were at least ok. The fact that it's subjective and not something I could concretely improve makes this waitlist biznis more agonizing.
 
fogo said:
Sigh. I am sad because I don't think I am socially inept... I'm a relatively normal human being who works hard. My interviews, I thought, were at least ok. The fact that it's subjective and not something I could concretely improve makes this waitlist biznis more agonizing.
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I'm sure you aren't. You just have to keep in mind that it's been the most competitive cycle in a generation, and, it isn't over yet. Please reread all the posts you can find regarding the staircase. The interview is not make or break for most people, and it is almost certainly not the reason you are on 4 WLs, so it's pointless to agonize about fixing something that probably isn't broken.

The WL biz is about 60,000 people trying to squeeze into 22,000 seats, and you being near the top of those who have not yet been successful, since you received multiple IIs that were not followed by multiple Rs. You might still make it before the cycle is over. If not, while it's not horseshoes, being close does give you a huge head start on a reapp.
 
I fell into a rabbit hole and started reading online articles about waitlists and how to get off of them, etc. One article mentioned that waitlists can be used as a "soft R" - where the school waitlists anyone who isn't offered a seat and only rarely rejects applicants post-interview. Thoughts on this? 🙁
 
wegotthis20201234 said:
I fell into a rabbit hole and started reading online articles about waitlists and how to get off of them, etc. One article mentioned that waitlists can be used as a "soft R" - where the school waitlists anyone who isn't offered a seat and only rarely rejects applicants post-interview. Thoughts on this? 🙁
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It happens and totally depends on the school. Some schools send post-II Rs and others don't. Those that don't are certainly using their WL as a soft R for those who do not have a realistic chance to be called, since no school ever expects to have anything close a 100% II --> A conversion rate.

The problem at those schools is, if they don't provide transparency regarding your position on the list, you have no way to know whether you are likely to be called or whether you received a soft R. If your school sends post-II Rs and you didn't receive one, you can rest assured that your WL is not a soft R.
 
ibnalkamil1990 said:
You seem to know a lot for a premed. Have you applied to medical school yet? Just curious, and surprised by your 6000+ comments.
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1622398668935.png


He's just a legend. 😉
 
amzer-zo_hasta-buan said:
I just got my first A yesterday - ignored the dean's call twice because I thought it was spam until they texted me asking for me to pick up. Thank you to this forum for giving something to browse while I was sobbing and trying to rewrite my personal statement unsuccessfully. You guys are the real ones. I hope there is more movement to bless you all with the A you so deserve.
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Was this NJMS?
 
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