2021 new grad salaries

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watchfulwaiting1957 said:
With an abundant supply of pharmacists I don't think they will have a problem getting takers for 32/hr base. I myself have seen similar offers on Indeed. Overall I think this is good for the profession. It will weed out the people that are just in pharmacy for the money and only the pharmacist purists will remain that actually like pharmacy and enjoy helping people.
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Work is a means to an end. When the wages of a job go down substantially, the quality of applicants eventually drastically falls. I've seen this with certain positions in social work that pay literally just north of minimum wage ($11.75/hr) for a bachelor's or even master's degree. Only those with no other options take these positions, and they either quickly move on once they have the experience or they stay because they ended up there for a reason (multiple problems with other employers, etc). These are critical jobs, but they're filled only with the inexperienced or the concerningly terrible, because goodwill alone means nothing when it is overridden by the desire to care for one's own family and basic needs in all but the most foolish of people
 
mentos said:
There is no such thing as a "top" pharmacy school. The majority of employers don't care where you went.
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This is mostly true - I don't care about the top pharmacy school, and I precept for one of the top 3 according to the rankings - we do care about the bottom schools thou - as long as you are not from a dipoloma mill (probably the bottom 1/2 of schools now)- it doesn't matter where you went.
 
mentos said:
There is no such thing as a "top" pharmacy school. The majority of employers don't care where you went.
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I care insofar as 'is it a school I have actually heard of'?

PS Bonus points if it's a state school from one of the Plains/Midwestern states. Warm fuzzy feelings all over.
 
mentos said:
There is no such thing as a "top" pharmacy school. The majority of employers don't care where you went.
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Apparently University of North Carolina Chapel Hill is is the top pharmacy school followed closely by University of California SF. It is unclear to me what top really means within the context of employment or even PGY1/PGY2. I conjecture that at least part of being the top is having higher than average placement rates.

Even placement rates stats are highly controversial. Does working at Burger King full time count as a placement? Does working a 2 year contract job at a university hospital count as placement? This ambigurity in the placement metric may help boost pharmacy school stats to make them more appealing to potential pharm students.

 
mentos said:
UCSF had a 63% fail rate for CPJE in 2019-2020, second to last out of all CA schools. West Coast and Chapman, considered diploma mills, had higher pass rates.


So much for rankings.
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I was wondering why UCSF dropped. I remember them being #1 for a while.

I would like to add my salary to this thread as I got a job. It's (comes out to) 37.50 an hour salaried in a chain-retail setting in the eastern area of the USA. It may not seem like much to some of you but I am very thankful for it. Now time to start paying back my 180,000 in loans x.X

Mad Jack said:
I saw a billboard for roofers, $30.25 an hour. Chewy is paying $20.75 an hour. Walmart pays $18.75 an hour in their warehouse. No skill can earn almost half of what a pharmacist makes, while some skill can earn 75%. Who's going to go to school for 6+ years just to make a 25% premium?
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Roofing is hard physical work. I have worked briefly as a roofer in my younger days. You carry these heavy 40 lb rolls of shingles up a ladder over and over again. Also it's a risky job, one fall and you may be done working; forever.

I'm not sure about Chewy but I know they ship heavy bags of dog and cat food mainly. So if the job involves heavy, repetitive lifting of heavy animal feed bags I'm sure that wage is hard work. Now if you can use the forklift that wouldn't be a bad job. The crazy think with decreasing pharmacy wages is they are being eroded from both sides. They are getting lower and lower and then inflation is making the real value of the wage have less actual spending power.
 
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watchfulwaiting1957 said:
I would like to add my salary to this thread as I got a job. It's (comes out to) 37.50 an hour salaried in a chain-retail setting in the eastern area of the USA. It may not seem like much to some of you but I am very thankful for it. Now time to start paying back my 180,000 in loans x.X
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Jesus $37.50? I feel bad for you man. My first job was 53.50 with CVS 6 years ago and my DM even told me I was underpaid at the time.

Techs at my workplace get $25/hr and they have no loans.
 
mentos said:
Jesus $37.50? I feel bad for you man. My first job was 53.50 with CVS 6 years ago and my DM even told me I was underpaid at the time.

Techs at my workplace get $25/hr and they have no loans.
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Don't feel bad for me friend. Feel bad for the literally thousands of new grads living at home not working or working fast food for 10 bucks an hour. Their voices are silent and not represented well here as their shame keeps them quiet.

I know many new grads personally that I would tell their stories here but no one would believe the stories. Also tech's where I live start at $12 at the BIG RED THREE LETTER in a suburban setting $25 seems really high for technicians, you must live in a high income area.

This job is a blessing for me and I will be showing up 30 minutes early and staying at least 1 hour after my shift, every shift while being extremely thankful for the opportunity to work and grow my resume.

It must have been nice to be working during the golden area of pharmacy pay!👍🤓

Interestingly enough this is 3 dollars more than I made at my last major non-pharm job and that was ten years ago so at least I'm moving up baby! (EDIT: after inflation I may actually be making less than my last job)
 
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watchfulwaiting1957 said:
Don't feel bad for me friend. Feel bad for the literally thousands of new grads living at home not working or working fast food for 10 bucks an hour. There voices are silent and not represented well here as their shame keeps them quiet.

I know many new grads personally that I would tell their stories here but no one would believe the stories. Also tech's where I live start at $12 at the BIG RED THREE LETTER in a suburban setting $25 seems really high for technicians, you must live in a high income area.

This job is a blessing for me and I will be showing up 30 minutes early and staying at least 1 hour after my shift, every shift while being extremely thankful for the opportunity to work and grow my resume.

It must have been nice to be working during the golden area of pharmacy pay!👍🤓

Interestingly enough this is 3 dollars more than I made at my last major non-pharm job and that was ten years ago so at least I'm moving up baby! (EDIT: after inflation I may actually be making less than my last job)
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I'm in LTC not retail. Hospitals pay techs $20+ too. Retail pays techs barely above minimum wage.

The golden age was 2004-2007 when new grads got 50k sign on bonuses, new cars, student loan reimbursement etc. Tuition was half the price back then and pay was higher.
 
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That is really high for LTC. Our highest paid tech makes a little over $20/hr and she is our tech supervisor with over a decade of experience. Starting wage for us is $12.50 and the vast majority of our techs are barely above that.

We do lose most of our good help to pharmacies that pay more though. You get what you pay for. I do wonder what our turnover costs are as well.
 
mentos said:
I'm in LTC not retail. Hospitals pay techs $20+ too. Retail pays techs barely above minimum wage.

The golden age was 2004-2007 when new grads got 50k sign on bonuses, new cars, student loan forgiveness etc. Tuition was half the price back then and pay was higher.
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Well I imagine it was also much harder to get into pharmacy school back then due to there being less schools so makes since. That is crazy. $50,000 sign on bonus. wow. Again it must've felt amazing to be that in demand. I'm glad you were able to experience Mr. Mentos 🤓 👍 May we all get the chance ride the fast one! Not to brag but I have had some pretty amazing experiences in my life so far that I am very lucky for.

WorthlessOxygen said:
What do you mean "comes out to" ? Is that after some sort of tax/deductions?
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Sorry if I was unclear. I was converting annual salary to per an hour. But it might not be accurate as I don't know how many hours I am going to be working per a pay period.

owlegrad said:
That is really high for LTC. Our highest paid tech makes a little over $20/hr and she is our tech supervisor with over a decade of experience. Starting wage for us is $12.50 and the vast majority of our techs are barely above that.

We do lose most of our good help to pharmacies that pay more though. You get what you pay for. I do wonder what our turnover costs are as well.
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Companies often spend thousands of dollars training employees and spending all those man hours screening people, bg checks, ect.
 
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watchfulwaiting1957 said:
Well I imagine it was also much harder to get into pharmacy school back then due to there being less schools so makes since. That is crazy. $50,000 sign on bonus. wow. Again it must've felt amazing to be that in demand. I'm glad you were able to experience Mr. Mentos 🤓 👍 May we all get the chance ride the fast one! Not to brag but I have had some pretty amazing experiences in my life so far that I am very lucky for.
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Man I wish I was a pharmacist during that time. I didn't even know what a pharmacy was in 2004-2007. I thought CVS was just a convenience store like 7/11. I had no idea there was a pharmacy in the back.
 
I was there during the good old days. Started with Walgreens in 2002 while still in undergrad... it was indeed good. When I graduated from pharmacy school in 2007, we all felt that we barely jumped in the last car of the gravy train as it was departing the station... and since 2009-2010 or so it has been steadily going downhill, in complete freefall since 2015 or so as a profession, though it didn't fully hit graduating students until 2019, I think.
 
watchfulwaiting1957 said:
Don't feel bad for me friend. Feel bad for the literally thousands of new grads living at home not working or working fast food for 10 bucks an hour. Their voices are silent and not represented well here as their shame keeps them quiet.

I know many new grads personally that I would tell their stories here but no one would believe the stories. Also tech's where I live start at $12 at the BIG RED THREE LETTER in a suburban setting $25 seems really high for technicians, you must live in a high income area.
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When you say new grad do you mean PharmD? If so that's really a raw deal
 
I'm seeing more schools create a " recruiter'' department. Not a person but an entire department to work with admissions. Saw the job duties and basically your on the road 3 out of 4 weeks during peak fall and spring season.

Schools rapidly expanded with no checks and balances for past 20 years and now we are at this stage trying to sell unassuming undergrads a pipedream.
 
VA77 said:
I'm seeing more schools create a " recruiter'' department. Not a person but an entire department to work with admissions. Saw the job duties and basically your on the road 3 out of 4 weeks during peak fall and spring season.

Schools rapidly expanded with no checks and balances for past 20 years and now we are at this stage trying to sell unassuming undergrads a pipedream.
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Makes sense that the deans would hire cheerleaders to try to get their admissions up in pharm schools. With declining youth in the USA and a "wokeness" for the declining salaries and employment of pharmacists I think the recruiters will have an uphill battle to sell the degree to students.

I personally have been getting an email once a month from a NY state pharm school telling me to apply to it and I will get accepted. The schools are desperate for students. I think within the next 5 years we will start to see the closures of some pharmacy schools.
 
VA77 said:
I'm seeing more schools create a " recruiter'' department. Not a person but an entire department to work with admissions. Saw the job duties and basically your on the road 3 out of 4 weeks during peak fall and spring season.

Schools rapidly expanded with no checks and balances for past 20 years and now we are at this stage trying to sell unassuming undergrads a pipedream.
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Unless these recruiters can shorten the length of pharmacy school to 2 years I don't think they're going to have much success. It doesn't make sense to spend 4 more years in school when you might come out making $80,000 and have very little future career advancement potential. Almost everything short of being a MD, PHD, or DVM takes less time than becoming a PharmD.

I think schools are counting on recruiting more underrepresented minority students, but I don't see that working out. The qualified URM students are going to be sought after by fields with better prospects. The URM students pharmacy schools are able to recruit will end up struggling and that could become problematic.
 
Gombrich12 said:
Unless these recruiters can shorten the length of pharmacy school to 2 years I don't think they're going to have much success. It doesn't make sense to spend 4 more years in school when you might come out making $80,000 and have very little future career advancement potential. Almost everything short of being a MD, PHD, or DVM takes less time than becoming a PharmD.

I think schools are counting on recruiting more underrepresented minority students, but I don't see that working out. The qualified URM students are going to be sought after by fields with better prospects. The URM students pharmacy schools are able to recruit will end up struggling and that could become problematic.
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80,000? more like 74,000 if you are lucky. There are pharmDs working for 35 at vaccination centers. I know because I applied to a bunch and didn't even get an interview for 35k.

WorthlessOxygen said:
Well now you gotta drop names!
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Sorry i only name drop if it's something positive to say about some entity. I don't wanna put people down. I know in my own life I have been put down enough.
 
Has anyone seen a significant drop in tuition to attract students? I've seen some gimmicks with seat deposits but nothing touching tuition at some of these pill mill schools.
 
watchfulwaiting1957 said:
Sorry i only name drop if it's something positive to say about some entity. I don't wanna put people down. I know in my own life I have been put down enough.
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Fair enough. I just hope it isn't my alma mater. I've heard admission standards have fallen to the point that it wouldn't surprise me too much.
 
VA77 said:
Has anyone seen a significant drop in tuition to attract students? I've seen some gimmicks with seat deposits but nothing touching tuition at some of these pill mill schools.
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LoL has that ever happened? I've only seen tuition increases like clockwork for the past 30 or so years.
 
mentos said:
LoL has that ever happened? I've only seen tuition increases like clockwork for the past 30 or so years.
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Just trying to determine how or if the schools see the current landscape and what they are willing to try due to very lowering admission rates and requirements.
 
VA77 said:
Just trying to determine how or if the schools see the current landscape and what they are willing to try due to very lowering admission rates and requirements.
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My guess is that schools are still profitable at this point despite the drop in number of applicants. Naive students are still allowed to borrow money like candy, thus can still pay the exorbitant tuitions.
 
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Ya. They won’t drop the price because then they would have to drop the price of their other programs They would cut back/drop the program first likely (assuming pharmacy is just another program they have- not the sole program or very large portion of their school). And that would be a good thing.
 
No doubt tuition had increased exponentially in the past 15 years but so has program expenses. Faculty salaries were around 65k back then and now easily over 100k. Some places have done COLA increases but not merit increases. I'm trying to watch the faculty because we all know the rats get off the ship before it sinks. The programs have to cut back because most aren't profitable at 65% capacity.

Single programs are dead. They are just running out the clock in the 4th quarter because they have no other program to rob Peter to pay Paul.

Anyone want to take bets that CSU get yanked in ACPEs meeting next week. I'll put $100 that accreditation gets revoked. The real question is which programs get put on probation 🤔
 
VA77 said:
No doubt tuition had increased exponentially in the past 15 years but so has program expenses. Faculty salaries were around 65k back then and now easily over 100k. Some places have done COLA increases but not merit increases. I'm trying to watch the faculty because we all know the rats get off the ship before it sinks. The programs have to cut back because most aren't profitable at 65% capacity.

Single programs are dead. They are just running out the clock in the 4th quarter because they have no other program to rob Peter to pay Paul.

Anyone want to take bets that CSU get yanked in ACPEs meeting next week. I'll put $100 that accreditation gets revoked. The real question is which programs get put on probation 🤔
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Faculty make over 100k now? That's higher than retail.
 
VA77 said:
No doubt tuition had increased exponentially in the past 15 years but so has program expenses. Faculty salaries were around 65k back then and now easily over 100k. Some places have done COLA increases but not merit increases. I'm trying to watch the faculty because we all know the rats get off the ship before it sinks. The programs have to cut back because most aren't profitable at 65% capacity.

Single programs are dead. They are just running out the clock in the 4th quarter because they have no other program to rob Peter to pay Paul.

Anyone want to take bets that CSU get yanked in ACPEs meeting next week. I'll put $100 that accreditation gets revoked. The real question is which programs get put on probation 🤔
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What is the status with hampton? Are they officially closing or do they still fighting it?
 
VA77 said:
I'm trying to watch the faculty because we all know the rats get off the ship before it sinks.
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😆😆🤣🤣 But yeah Chicago with a 50.7% pass rate? I mean what is going on with that program. Some say it's the teachers that make the pass rate, others say it's the selection of the students that makes the pass rate. Nature vs. nurture. We may never know but I'm interested in what they were teaching these kids in class.

mentos said:
Faculty make over 100k now? That's higher than retail.
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The adjunct faculty I know are not making anywhere close to 100k. The idea of using unemployed pharmacists to create more pharmacy schools to make more unemployed pharmacists who then are used to create more pharmacy schools weirdly reminds me of Bernard Madoff.
 
watchfulwaiting1957 said:
😆😆🤣🤣 But yeah Chicago with a 50.7% pass rate? I mean what is going on with that program. Some say it's the teachers that make the pass rate, others say it's the selection of the students that makes the pass rate. Nature vs. nurture. We may never know but I'm interested in what they were teaching these kids in class.
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I would not blame the teachers. You can pass the Naplex by studying rxprep for a couple of weeks, no pharmacy school required.
 
according to bls, average here is 78/hr, kinda feel jipped even tho I know it is a lot higher than others
 
UCSF2021 said:
yea I thought it seems a little high to believe, but bls data is from the irs so it must be correct right?
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If you are talking about the average and not the median then there are severe outliers on the high end that drive the average up in your area. For example there are probably mom and pop specialty pharmacies with pharmacist owners making over 400,000 a year in your area driving up the over all average.
 
Dred Pirate said:
This is mostly true - I don't care about the top pharmacy school, and I precept for one of the top 3 according to the rankings - we do care about the bottom schools thou - as long as you are not from a dipoloma mill (probably the bottom 1/2 of schools now)- it doesn't matter where you went.
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looks like you'll never hire me lol
 
samven582 said:
Yes Touro.
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honestly I don't know much about it other than Sparda is from there - lol and I think they had some of the worst NAPLEX pass rates when I checked - I think I interviewed someone from there for our residency - seemed OK, but ultimately ranked pretty low. Although once you get experience, school doesn't matter (I went to a school that was "average" when I graduated but now the number of schools have doubled I am guessing I am in the top 25% as far as reputation. Again, not that that matters much
 
samven582 said:
Yes Touro.
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Dred Pirate said:
honestly I don't know much about it other than Sparda is from there - lol and I think they had some of the worst NAPLEX pass rates when I checked - I think I interviewed someone from there for our residency - seemed OK, but ultimately ranked pretty low. Although once you get experience, school doesn't matter (I went to a school that was "average" when I graduated but now the number of schools have doubled I am guessing I am in the top 25% as far as reputation. Again, not that that matters much
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All I know about Touro is the Touro I checked out in Manhattan. Touro College of Pharmacy. Very expensive and they had a massive cheating scandal which tarnished their reputation greatly. "Teachers, students and administrators tampered with a Touro College’s computer system to change grades and create fake degrees for money, prosecutors charged Monday. Among the fake degrees given were those for physicians’ assistants, they said. "

www.nbcnews.com

10 indicted for allegedly selling bogus degrees

Teachers, students and administrators tampered with a New York City private college’s computer system to change grades and create fake degrees for money, prosecutors charged Monday. Among the fake degrees given were those for physicians’ assistants, they said.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com

I think they have other campuses though, at least one in California. I went to a degree mill as well but at least mine wasn't expensive. If you are going to get something printed hot off the press at least try to get it for cheap.
 
Dred Pirate said:
honestly I don't know much about it other than Sparda is from there - lol and I think they had some of the worst NAPLEX pass rates when I checked - I think I interviewed someone from there for our residency - seemed OK, but ultimately ranked pretty low. Although once you get experience, school doesn't matter (I went to a school that was "average" when I graduated but now the number of schools have doubled I am guessing I am in the top 25% as far as reputation. Again, not that that matters much
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Yea, I actually knew sparda outside of SDN lol. As for NAPLEX, I actually did pretty well- 110 but you're right about Touro's NAPLEX pass rates. One of the worst in the country.
 
watchfulwaiting1957 said:
All I know about Touro is the Touro I checked out in Manhattan. Touro College of Pharmacy. Very expensive and they had a massive cheating scandal which tarnished their reputation greatly. "Teachers, students and administrators tampered with a Touro College’s computer system to change grades and create fake degrees for money, prosecutors charged Monday. Among the fake degrees given were those for physicians’ assistants, they said. "

www.nbcnews.com

10 indicted for allegedly selling bogus degrees

Teachers, students and administrators tampered with a New York City private college’s computer system to change grades and create fake degrees for money, prosecutors charged Monday. Among the fake degrees given were those for physicians’ assistants, they said.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com

I think they have other campuses though, at least one in California. I went to a degree mill as well but at least mine wasn't expensive. If you are going to get something printed hot off the press at least try to get it for cheap.
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I wish I knew this before I accepted their trash program.
 
samven582 said:
I wish I knew this before I accepted their trash program.
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Well I wouldn't be that concerned about the quality of the program. Most of studying for the MPJE and NAPLEX is autodidactic. I would be concerned about your presumed higher than average debt load. Even I am just one job termination from falling below the federal poverty level again.
 
watchfulwaiting1957 said:
Well I wouldn't be that concerned about the quality of the program. Most of studying for the MPJE and NAPLEX is autodidactic. I would be concerned about your presumed higher than average debt load. Even I am just one job termination from falling below the federal poverty level again.
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I'm not too concerned about my loans. I can pay it off right now but I'm waiting where Biden is going to do in the next few months. I continued to pay the bare minimum at the moment. Additionally, thank god for zero free interest
 
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