21% Tuition increase!!! When will the madness end?

[lalalaaaaaa]

On January 29, Illinois administration informed everyone that for incoming M1s, the tuition would be raised 21%, to a total of $42,000. This will make UIC, Illinois' only public school, also its most expensive to attend. (And I thought Colorado was bad!)

I imagine that this will have disturbing effects on medical education, both in Illinois and elsewhere. By raising the total cost of attendance to nearly $300,000, I bet many more students will be priced out of careers in primary care, at a time when the healthcare system is already projected to reach a shortage of 50,000 primary care physicians by 2020. It seems to me that this will discourage students from underserved, poorer communities from aspiring towards becoming physicians, which inevitably means that these communities will only become increasingly underserved in the future.

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[lalalaaaaaa]

Do you all think that this hike is a part of an increasing trend in public medical education to shift the financial burden of attendance away from the state, and towards the students?

Seems to defeat the purpose of state medical schools, and might threaten to turn a career in medicine into a pipe dream only accessible to the richest students.


Seems wrong.

EDIT: see what I did there to all the Illinois people getting their thread closed ...this is also plagiarized from one of those threads, but it seems important for open discussion.

 

[DrBowtie]

http://www.usdebtclock.org/state-debt-clocks/state-of-illinois-debt-clock.html

 

[lalalaaaaaa]

http://www.usdebtclock.org/state-debt-clocks/state-of-illinois-debt-clock.html

(Increasing debt)=1/(achieving dreams)

 

[DrBowtie]

(Increasing debt)=1/(achieving dreams)

Point being, the state doesn't have money to subsidize the school with.

 

[1TB4RKSB4CK]

Contemplating about still matriculating if accepted to UIC even with the tuition hike.

 

[MT Headed]

UIC is not Illinois' only public medical school.

What evidence do you have that anybody has been "priced out of careers in primary care" due to medical school debt?

Before answering the second question, take a look at Doc Espana's insights here http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=12123123#post12123123 and here http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=12125029#post12125029

At least you didn't copy/paste the link to the petition too and get your post banned like the others.

 

[EBTrailRunner]

I'm glad I decided not to attend my interview there... OOS tuition was already killer.

 

[lalalaaaaaa]

UIC is not Illinois' only public medical school.

What evidence do you have that anybody has been "priced out of careers in primary care" due to medical school debt?

Before answering the second question, take a look at Doc Espana's insights here http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=12123123#post12123123 and here http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=12125029#post12125029

At least you didn't copy/paste the link to the petition too and get your post banned like you colleagues.

I actually don't know anything about the public school issue. I don't know about being pushed out of primary care on a national level, in fact most of the people I know graduating from med school this year are going into primary care despite being >200,000 in debt.

I started this thread more because the 21% hike seems astounding to me.

 

[IMSingular]

Hike the fee. Forgive primary physicians's debt if they practice in boonies.
Then may be state will get what it wants.

 

[MT Headed]

I actually don't know anything about the public school issue. I don't know about being pushed out of primary care on a national level, in fact most of the people I know graduating from med school this year are going into primary care despite being >200,000 in debt.

I started this thread more because the 21% hike seems astounding to me.

RFU, Loyola, and Rush all produce the same percentages of primary care physicians (at prices similar to UIC's new price) as UIC does at its old price. Look, I'm not trying to be annoying here. Raising tuition at UIC may cause harm somewhere, but I think the shrill original post is inaccurate on many counts.

Besides a transfer of ~$100K of wealth from future physicians to the bankrupt and corrupt State of Illinois, what are the other repercussions of this decision? Because I think the evidence that the Cabrini-Green diaspora will suffer more in the future than they would have otherwise is mighty thin.

 

[BurntFlower]

Did the OOS tuition also increase?

 

[MT Headed]

Did the OOS tuition also increase?

Yes.

http://www.medicine.uic.edu/finaid/cost/COA/

But it will be "only" $71K per year in base tuition ($96K total COA per year). Not at the top yet, but definitely top tier.

 

[flatearth22]

Med school tuition 15 years ago seem comical compared to today:

http://services.aamc.org/tsfreports/report.cfm?select_control=PUB&year_of_study=1997

http://services.aamc.org/tsfreports/report.cfm?select_control=PRI&year_of_study=1997

 

[BurntFlower]

Yes.

http://www.medicine.uic.edu/finaid/cost/COA/

But it will be "only" $71K per year in base tuition ($96K total COA per year). Not at the top yet, but definitely top tier.

Yeah...that is waaay too high for me. Crossing off my list.

 

[Dartmouth2005]

On January 29, Illinois administration informed everyone that for incoming M1s, the tuition would be raised 21%, to a total of $42,000. This will make UIC, Illinois' only public school, also its most expensive to attend. (And I thought Colorado was bad!)

I imagine that this will have disturbing effects on medical education, both in Illinois and elsewhere. By raising the total cost of attendance to nearly $300,000, I bet many more students will be priced out of careers in primary care, at a time when the healthcare system is already projected to reach a shortage of 50,000 primary care physicians by 2020. It seems to me that this will discourage students from underserved, poorer communities from aspiring towards becoming physicians, which inevitably means that these communities will only become increasingly underserved in the future.

The madness will end when the federal government stops handing thousands of dollars in non-dischargeable loans out to anyone. Under our current system, the schools have no incentive to stop raising the cost of attendance since they know the government will cover the bill.

If the state does not give enough money to cover the university's costs, then the university can just shift those costs to the federal government by raising tuition and having students borrow money from the federal government.

 

[NickNaylor]

Med school tuition 15 years ago seem comical compared to today:

http://services.aamc.org/tsfreports/report.cfm?select_control=PUB&year_of_study=1997

http://services.aamc.org/tsfreports/report.cfm?select_control=PRI&year_of_study=1997

Cost of education in general seems comical compared to today. Even in the 80s tuition at many schools was just a few thousand a year. Of course inflation plays a role in the increases, but it's still laughable.

 

[MT Headed]

Yeah...that is waaay too high for me. Crossing off my list.

I know, right? Makes my list of OOS-friendly private schools a bargain by comparison. Now I don't feel so bad about my own situation. Isn't there a public school in Florida that charges over $100K OOS tuition?

 

[startswithb]

Come to Southern Illinois University. M1 tuition is $26,000.

 

[SoundofSilver]

The madness will end when the federal government stops handing thousands of dollars in non-dischargeable loans out to anyone. Under our current system, the schools have no incentive to stop raising the cost of attendance since they know the government will cover the bill.

If the state does not give enough money to cover the university's costs, then the university can just shift those costs to the federal government by raising tuition and having students borrow money from the federal government.

This x1,000,000. I wish more people would understand this.

Government intervention in the student loan market has created a student loan bubble similar to the housing bubble that burst in 2008.

 

[NickNaylor]

This x1,000,000. I wish more people would understand this.

Government intervention in the student loan market has created a student loan bubble similar to the housing bubble that burst in 2008.

HOW DARE YOU ALL PRIVATE BANKS DO IS RIP PEOPLE OFF WE WOULDN'T EVEN BE ABLE TO GO TO COLLEGE OTHERWISE

 

[dreamweaver1988]

http://www.usdebtclock.org/state-debt-clocks/state-of-illinois-debt-clock.html

Not accurate, sorry. Most states balance their budget each and every year.

Med school tuition 15 years ago seem comical compared to today:

http://services.aamc.org/tsfreports/report.cfm?select_control=PUB&year_of_study=1997

http://services.aamc.org/tsfreports/report.cfm?select_control=PRI&year_of_study=1997

My uncle went to WVSOM right after it opened - it cost him $500 a semester. And, his home state gave him a $250 scholarship. Lol. 'Twould be nice to attend medical school and pay $250 a semester for tuition.

 

[MT Headed]

Not accurate, sorry. Most states balance their budget each and every year.

Illinois isn't most states. They take financial mismanagement to a whole new level.

http://biggovernment.com/publius/2012/01/07/illinois-debt-downgraded-again-worst-in-nation/

Illinois Debt Downgraded Again, Worst in Nation

"Both Moody’s and S&P said they are troubled by Illinois’ failure to balance its budget ..."

 

[SoonerFromTexas]

Wow. That is almost three years of tuition in Texas. This post made me very grateful.

 

[bassvp]

In a couple years they'll be saying "you were only $300,000 in debt?!?"

 

[gravitywave]

The madness will end when the federal government stops handing thousands of dollars in non-dischargeable loans out to anyone. Under our current system, the schools have no incentive to stop raising the cost of attendance since they know the government will cover the bill.

If the state does not give enough money to cover the university's costs, then the university can just shift those costs to the federal government by raising tuition and having students borrow money from the federal government.

This x1,000,000. I wish more people would understand this.

Government intervention in the student loan market has created a student loan bubble similar to the housing bubble that burst in 2008.

90+% of tuition increases over the last ten years are attributable to declining direct government support for higher education. step back for a minute and consider why tuitions have been increasing > CPI over the same period.

 

[Lunasly]

Point being, the state doesn't have money to subsidize the school with.

I'll say this once: infowars.com

Plenty of information on there to realize just exactly why many states in the U.S. just don't have the money to subsidize.

 

[Knocked Up]

On January 29, Illinois administration informed everyone that for incoming M1s, the tuition would be raised 21%, to a total of $42,000. This will make UIC, Illinois' only public school, also its most expensive to attend. (And I thought Colorado was bad!)

I imagine that this will have disturbing effects on medical education, both in Illinois and elsewhere. By raising the total cost of attendance to nearly $300,000, I bet many more students will be priced out of careers in primary care, at a time when the healthcare system is already projected to reach a shortage of 50,000 primary care physicians by 2020. It seems to me that this will discourage students from underserved, poorer communities from aspiring towards becoming physicians, which inevitably means that these communities will only become increasingly underserved in the future.

stop complaining and just go to Tufts:

http://www.tufts.edu/med/docs/about/offices/finaid/COA1112MDPhD.pdf

wait....just joking

 

[tantacles]

HOW DARE YOU ALL PRIVATE BANKS DO IS RIP PEOPLE OFF WE WOULDN'T EVEN BE ABLE TO GO TO COLLEGE OTHERWISE

You've got a little froth on your chin you might want to wipe off.

 

[link2swim06]

This x1,000,000. I wish more people would understand this.

Government intervention in the student loan market has created a student loan bubble similar to the housing bubble that burst in 2008.

Its comical my student loans are 6.8-7.8%...my visa card is only 9.9% and it at least it gives me rewards.

Wait...I could have had so many rewards by now if I used it for tution...

 

[dd128]

Yeah...that is waaay too high for me. Crossing off my list.

Dude, your avatar terrifies me to my soul...sorry not related to the thread, but thought I'd share

 

[45408]

The madness will end when the federal government stops handing thousands of dollars in non-dischargeable loans out to anyone. Under our current system, the schools have no incentive to stop raising the cost of attendance since they know the government will cover the bill.

If the state does not give enough money to cover the university's costs, then the university can just shift those costs to the federal government by raising tuition and having students borrow money from the federal government.

this x a billion trillion zillion


but, but, but think of the children who wouldn't be able to afford college!!!

They could afford it if the government hadn't interfered so badly in the first place!

 

[mishaS]

By raising the total cost of attendance to nearly $300,000, I bet many more students will be priced out of careers in primary care

At Georgetown there were very honest about this given their high tuition cost. They told us that we should realistically consider how our debt would impact our decision on what specialty we go into. I keep mentioning a particular pediatrician I know, and bless her for going where her passions lie despite her debt, but she doesn't live, at all, how people would expect when they find out she's a doctor.

I'm just glad Michigan has a law that limits tuition hikes to only 7.1%/year. At worst, they could maximally hike up our tuition to 38K by my fourth year. Honestly though, knowing what the out of staters are paying here. One of my classmates probably could have gotten into a medical school in Texas if he had applied earlier in the cycle (he applied really late), or if he would have just reapplied early in the next cycle, but he didn't want to risk it or have to lose another year. 1 year of tuition here for him costs as much as what his total tuition cost would have been in Texas.

edit*
Also, +1 to everyone who's said the problem lies in the massive amount of loans handed out, and how much money they allow to flow through universities.

 

[druggeek]

On January 29, Illinois administration informed everyone that for incoming M1s, the tuition would be raised 21%, to a total of $42,000. This will make UIC, Illinois' only public school, also its most expensive to attend. (And I thought Colorado was bad!)

I imagine that this will have disturbing effects on medical education, both in Illinois and elsewhere. By raising the total cost of attendance to nearly $300,000, I bet many more students will be priced out of careers in primary care, at a time when the healthcare system is already projected to reach a shortage of 50,000 primary care physicians by 2020. It seems to me that this will discourage students from underserved, poorer communities from aspiring towards becoming physicians, which inevitably means that these communities will only become increasingly underserved in the future.

on the bright side, saturation won't happen (which is much worse than anything).

 

[IMSingular]

Its comical my student loans are 6.8-7.8%...my visa card is only 9.9% and it at least it gives me rewards.

Wait...I could have had so many rewards by now if I used it for tution...

Fed loan interest rates are ridiculous. Financially justifiable interest rate should be 10 or 20 year federal bond rate + 1%. And student's should be given a choice of 10 year or 20 term.

 

[SoundofSilver]

90+% of tuition increases over the last ten years are attributable to declining direct government support for higher education. step back for a minute and consider why tuitions have been increasing > CPI over the same period.

While public funding has decreased, this is not why tuition has skyrocketed.

Let's say I'm a business that loses a state subsidy for something. The first thing I'm going to do is look for ways to cut waste and inefficiencies to save money. Simply raising the price of my product by 20% would be suicide as I would lose a ton of customers and I'd still be bleeding money due to all the waste/inefficiencies. Now if things got really bad, I might be forced to raise prices, but only slightly and only after I've made cuts elsewhere.

When a university loses state funding, they don't have to cut anything. They can keep building fancy new dining halls, rock climbing walls, and all the other BS that has nothing to do with education. They don't even have to fire a single useless administrator (and there are a lot of them). It's easy, all they have to do is raise tuition because their "customers" are guaranteed to pay due to easy government loans. And if the student later defaults on that loan, the university couldn't care less because they've already been paid, but the tax payers (you know, the people who fund the federal student loan program) have been screwed over. So in a sense, all the student loans that will never be paid back can be looked at as a tax on the American people that goes directly to the universities, so if anything, public funding for education has actually increased!

This is why government intervention (i.e. federal student loans) has caused tuition to skyrocket rather than cuts in state funding to education.

 

[gravitywave]

While public funding has decreased, this is not why tuition has skyrocketed.

Let's say I'm a business that loses a state subsidy for something. The first thing I'm going to do is look for ways to cut waste and inefficiencies to save money. Simply raising the price of my product by 20% would be suicide as I would lose a ton of customers and I'd still be bleeding money due to all the waste/inefficiencies. Now if things got really bad, I might be forced to raise prices, but only slightly and only after I've made cuts elsewhere.

When a university loses state funding, they don't have to cut anything. They can keep building fancy new dining halls, rock climbing walls, and all the other BS that has nothing to do with education. They don't even have to fire a single useless administrator (and there are a lot of them). It's easy, all they have to do is raise tuition because their "customers" are guaranteed to pay due to easy government loans. And if the student later defaults on that loan, the university couldn't care less because they've already been paid, but the tax payers (you know, the people who fund the federal student loan program) have been screwed over. So in a sense, all the student loans that will never be paid back can be looked at as a tax on the American people that goes directly to the universities, so if anything, public funding for education has actually increased!

This is why government intervention (i.e. federal student loans) has caused tuition to skyrocket rather than cuts in state funding to education.

this isn't really what's going on. i recognize that it's an attractive argument, but it doesn't reflect reality. i don't have time to get into this right now, but a few of us went over this issue

blah

, and i cited research that was done on the subject from here.

it would be nice if the student loan market was a little better broken out into tranches so that med students, with their epically low default rates, didn't have to pay the same interest as undergrads. but letting the private market into the student loan world wholesale is a recipe for abuse. we have enough trouble with the private market churning out diploma mills as it is.

 

[Caprica6]

What evidence do you have that anybody has been "priced out of careers in primary care" due to medical school debt?

I don't have a link, but I went to a talk at my state's medical school recently about the state of affairs facing current and future medical students. It addressed tuition, residency, debt, demographics, etc.

When polled student debt vs potential income was a significant factor for students when choosing a specialty over primary care.


In regards to OP's comment about tuition increases discouraging students from underserved and poorer communities applying to medical school, I don't see why that would be the case. Most medical students are going to graduate with a significant amount of debt. How many of you know a student from a middle/upper class family that is going to be paying their tuition with something other than financial aid? I think it's probably the minority.

 

[SoundofSilver]

but letting the private market into the student loan world wholesale is a recipe for abuse. we have enough trouble with the private market churning out diploma mills as it is.

At least we'd have the same basic consumer protections offered with other types of loans. Federal student loans are the most malignant loans out there. And I (and many others) really do think we'd be much better off if the government had never gotten involved in student loans.

And the for-profit degree mills only exist because they want a piece of that easy government credit. Let's say for a minute that free market forces were allowed to dictate things, what private institution in their right mind would give you a loan to go to one of those "schools" when their students default at significantly higher rates than students who go to non-profit schools.

Anyways, I don't have much time to get into this either (must get back to studying), but it's an important argument and I appreciate the dialogue.

 

[IMSingular]

it would be nice if the student loan market was a little better broken out into tranches so that med students, with their epically low default rates, didn't have to pay the same interest as undergrads. ...

Actually no one can default on federal loans. Federal loans survive bankruptcy. Only time they get extinguished is student dies or ma be is disabled. 0.5% for admnistrative purposes- fee similar to mortgage loans-, and another 0.5% to pay to insure against death or disabilty is the spread over federal bonds is financially justified.