25 MCAT 2.7 cGPA is SMP for me?

[PmDawn]

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Hi guys,

I am 25 years old, 3 years out of School. I work in research, 2 publications, and 500+ hours clinical volunteering.

I am applying to Ross and have an interview with SGU coming. Now I am debating if SMP would be able to get me into US schools. I have too many units to be able to change my GPA (2.7cGPA, 2.5sGPA), so that is what it is. I scored 25N (8V,8P,9B) on MCAT.
Is it realistic to think that smp will give me a chance to go to US schools? My GPA is not going to change but I could retake the MCAT maybe score closer to 30.
My question is should I just put my efforts in going the carib route, or do I have a good chance at US schools (MD or DO) after smp?

Any advise appreciated, maybe you have debated a similar scenario.

 

[deleted248403]

To get into a US MD school with that GPA would take you at least 3 years; you aren't competitive for an SMP right now

Depending on your timeline, but your cGPA is just too low. You'd have to score solid mid to high 30s for an SMP to take a flyer on you with that cGPA

I would go Carib if you want to start med school within 2-3 years of now

*Edit - you posted this exact same question, 2 years ago, with the same stats, and same situation (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=8281087#post8281087 ); if you haven't changed anything about your app, why would anything change with the answer?*

 

[HerbalPlz]

To get into a US MD school with that GPA would take you at least 3 years; you aren't competitive for an SMP right now

Depending on your timeline, but your cGPA is just too low. You'd have to score solid mid to high 30s for an SMP to take a flyer on you with that cGPA

I would go Carib if you want to start med school within 2-3 years of now

*Edit - you posted this exact same question, 2 years ago, with the same stats, and same situation (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=8281087#post8281087 ); if you haven't changed anything about your app, why would anything change with the answer?*

Nice catch 👍

 

[chirodocjrd]

Yes, it is a possibility to get into an SMP. Take what everyone on here says with a grain of salt. They all mean well but they're all just students like us. I was told by some to retake 2 years of classes and then try for an smp, that I had no chance, etc, etc. But they were wrong. I would suggest that you apply to some SMP's and see how it goes. I'd recommend retaking the MCAT in Jan, apply to the SMP's early Jan or Feb and give it a shot. I was a similar gpa (but i was a dc for 10 years) and was accepted to Mississippi College and to PCOM. I'm at PCOM right now doing their Biomedical Science program.

I had the same thoughts as you, go caribbean or smp. I'd suggest that you apply to the SMP's as well as to SGU and Ross. If you don't get in an smp, go to the Caribbean in the fall. I was accepted to MC pretty quickly but I was on the wait list at PCOM until literally July 28 so don't give up hope if you don't get in right away. Just make plans for the Caribbean and change them if you get accepted to an SMP.

Good luck to you!

 

[DrMidlife]

Yes, it is a possibility to get into an SMP.

Not an SMP that can get you into a US MD school, not with a sub-3.0/sub-30. DO and Carib are options, sure, I'm not arguing with that.

But they were wrong.

When you get into med school, report back on whether you are happy with your SMP/DO/etc choices, and why it worked out for you to not follow best practices for a GPA/MCAT comeback.

If you want to speed things up, instead of doing the work to demonstrate you're ready to thrive at a US MD school, into which it's very difficult to get accepted, you bet, there are other options.

(I should mention that after I did multiple more years of undergrad, I got rejected by 8 of the 11 DO schools I applied to, before I did a good SMP and got in MD. Point being, getting in DO is no cakewalk, there are no guarantees, and multiple years were required to get the job done.)

Mississippi College

...which is a terminal masters degree not hosted at a med school, and has no published record of getting its grads into med school, nor is it hosted at a med school, and quite frankly, I don't understand why any low-stats candidate other than a Mississippi resident would do that program with the intention of getting into a US MD school. For somebody who needs help getting into a DO school, I don't understand why you'd pick a small private college with no success record to do academic enhancement.

and to PCOM. I'm at PCOM right now doing their Biomedical Science program.

Arguably the best DO school. Good choice.

Just make plans for the Caribbean and change them if you get accepted to an SMP.

As a Carib grad, you have maximum student debt and minimum chances at a US residency as a US-IMG (US international med grad), assuming you don't fail out with a substantial chunk of the class. Understand that the Carib grad who gets to be a rich successful private practice specialist is the top of the top of the average class size of 400. The other 399 don't get advertised (and 150+ don't get to be doctors at all).

Best of luck to you.

 

[DrMarkCraig]

The other 399 don't get advertised (and 150+ don't get to be doctors at all).

Best of luck to you.

DrMidlife, is the attrition rate really that high for the Caribbean?

 

[deleted248403]

When you get into med school, report back on whether you are happy with your SMP/DO/etc choices, and why it worked out for you to not follow best practices for a GPA/MCAT comeback.

Agreed with everything Midlife said; when you've walked the walk chirodocjrd, then you can tell us we are wrong. But as of right now, you have 0 medical school acceptances that you've reported

DrMidlife, is the attrition rate really that high for the Caribbean?

Yes - and its going to get worse if the recent budget cut stuff for residency programs get pushed through. We had meetings at my US Allo school about how we will struggle to get residencies; caribs will have no chance at US residencies.

 

[Jack1919]

I agree with Chirodocjrd. There are so many different scenarios in which one can climb their way out of the dreaded low GPA . It will take a lot of hard work, but it can be done. I highly recommend reading
The low GPA thread and do some soul searching.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=125347

There are something like 2500+ posts over 7 years of great information and anecdotes from people who have done this.

I would definitely try to for a higher MCAT score. With an improved score it wouldn't hurt to apply broadly to SMP type programs. Also, is there any chance of repeating any of the courses which are bringing your GPA down? Unless you're dead set on MD only then factor that in as well. But, you are not in any way chained to Carib only schools. I think people are quick to give that impression because they don't want to sugar coat anything for you as it will be tough, but not impossible.

Best of luck to ya!!

 

[DrMarkCraig]

Agreed with everything Midlife said; when you've walked the walk chirodocjrd, then you can tell us we are wrong. But as of right now, you have 0 medical school acceptances that you've reported

Yes - and its going to get worse if the recent budget cut stuff for residency programs get pushed through. We had meetings at my US Allo school about how we will struggle to get residencies; caribs will have no chance at US residencies.

I knew it was bad but I did not realize it was that daunting.

Vaguely similar to the law school predicament - $200k in student debt with the slim hope of placing in the top 1/5 of your class. Whoops.

 

[DrMidlife]

DrMidlife, is the attrition rate really that high for the Caribbean?

The attrition rate in the Carib is extraordinary, and it's the obvious result of low standards for acceptance, huge class sizes and a for-profit business model.

Yes - and its going to get worse if the recent budget cut stuff for residency programs get pushed through. We had meetings at my US Allo school about how we will struggle to get residencies; caribs will have no chance at US residencies.

I don't honestly think things will change that much for Carib grads and US residencies. As long as primary care residencies in rotten locations go unfilled, FMGs (including US-IMGs) who are able to pass boards and graduate will fill them. What has changed is that a US-IMG doing primary care (or a US MD from a private or OOS med school who doesn't get scholarships and doesn't do well on boards) has too much student loan debt to ever break free of it into the prosperity and well-being that you would hope doctors have after all that training.

Lastly on this, it's very difficult to find out any of the following, even with the most reputable Carib schools:
- how many students are in each class (is SGU really 700 per year?)
- how many fail out (is it really 50%? 25%?)
- how many are allowed to take boards (they don't let you take boards if they don't think you'll pass, that's a critical difference with US schools)
- how many need more than 4 years to graduate?

Best of luck to you.

 

[PmDawn]

The attrition rates for Carib MD is no secret and the residency placement is an uphill battle. I have done my research. I'm not sure if SMP followed by DO is possible in my situation, and that is why I posted.

My problem is that post-bacc requires money and student loans will not cover that since it is not a degree granting program. Last year I applied for a private loan for a post-bacc and was denied by wells fargo and sallie mae even with co-signer. With my gpa I need at least 2-3 years worth of post-bacc. Which I can't finance.

I have looked at other professions that I would have a shot at, mainly PA or Podiatry school. I have shadowed both and feel I would be happier as a General Surgeon. I know that this residency is doable coming from SGU.

At least with CarribMD or SMP I qualify for government loans.

Thanks for the comments so far

 

[DrMidlife]

Do better research. Such as reading the low GPA thread in this forum.

A 2nd bachelors is a degree-granting program, eligible for federal aid, lets you take boatloads more undergrad, AND gets you registration priority.

And/or, look at Harvard Extension, Berkeley Extension, UT Dallas.

Doing Carib isn't a path to a career as a general surgeon, empirically. What WOULD be a path to gen surg would be re-learning how to study and take tests before you try to get into med school. If you can't kill the MCAT, what makes you think you'll kill boards, MD/DO/Carib? Seriously.

Best of luck to you.

 

[chirodocjrd]

My post was in response to robflanker saying, "you aren't competitive for an SMP right now. Depending on your timeline, but your cGPA is just too low. You'd have to score solid mid to high 30s for an SMP to take a flyer on you with that cGPA". It had nothing to do with getting into medical school since, as another posted stated, I have 0 medical school acceptances under my belt. It seems the poster didn't read very carefully and just assumed more than what was stated.
I do agree with Midlife and the other posters here with regards to the Caribbean route. Hence the reason that I chose an SMP instead of going that route. To the OP, I would seriously do the research like Midlife said and come to a informed decision. I wish you the best of luck and hope that we all make it into medical school in the near future.

 

[drizzt3117]

I'd go the Carib route, that being said, gsurg won't be a walk in the park, I'd you match, you'll probably be looking at the most malignant community programs in poor locations unless you slaughter step 1/2.

The attrition rates for Carib MD is no secret and the residency placement is an uphill battle. I have done my research. I'm not sure if SMP followed by DO is possible in my situation, and that is why I posted.

My problem is that post-bacc requires money and student loans will not cover that since it is not a degree granting program. Last year I applied for a private loan for a post-bacc and was denied by wells fargo and sallie mae even with co-signer. With my gpa I need at least 2-3 years worth of post-bacc. Which I can't finance.

I have looked at other professions that I would have a shot at, mainly PA or Podiatry school. I have shadowed both and feel I would be happier as a General Surgeon. I know that this residency is doable coming from SGU.

At least with CarribMD or SMP I qualify for government loans.

Thanks for the comments so far

 

[acesup123]

Forget the formal SMP, just enroll at your local state college and take a bunch of science classes for two years and ace them. While your doing this study for the MCAT at the same time. You will save money, and you can tailor your class schedule to your MCAT studying.

 

[Cheesecake2012]

Hey, Whatever you do, do not go to a carib medical school. There is no point. Especially for anyone who has started this past fall or who is planning to start in January. By the time you are done there will be no residency spots for foreign grads. There will be about 1500 spots left which makes your chances of getting residency literally close to zero. These are all facts. Most of my friends are in the same boat right now and that is one of the reasons why I did not continue on to rotations. I went to one of the schools you mentioned in your post.

I would take advice from the others in this thread!

Hi guys,

I am 25 years old, 3 years out of School. I work in research, 2 publications, and 500+ hours clinical volunteering.

I am applying to Ross and have an interview with SGU coming. Now I am debating if SMP would be able to get me into US schools. I have too many units to be able to change my GPA (2.7cGPA, 2.5sGPA), so that is what it is. I scored 25N (8V,8P,9B) on MCAT.
Is it realistic to think that smp will give me a chance to go to US schools? My GPA is not going to change but I could retake the MCAT maybe score closer to 30.
My question is should I just put my efforts in going the carib route, or do I have a good chance at US schools (MD or DO) after smp?

Any advise appreciated, maybe you have debated a similar scenario.

 

[DocGodfather]

You can go the carib route, or you can take 1-2 years and retake all your C's and D's if you are thinking about DO, since they have the grade replacement. It will be harder for allo if you have a bunch of units and stuck at a 2.5. Not sure any programs would take you.

 

[chirodocjrd]

Agreed with everything Midlife said; when you've walked the walk chirodocjrd, then you can tell us we are wrong. But as of right now, you have 0 medical school acceptances that you've reported

Just wanted to get back to this post since robflanker asked so nicely ...you were wrong. I applied for the first time this app cycle after putting in the work to improve and....I got accepted. And probably so can the OP, so don't give up.

 

[deleted248403]

Just wanted to get back to this post since robflanker asked so nicely ...you were wrong. I applied for the first time this app cycle after putting in the work to improve and....I got accepted. And probably so can the OP, so don't give up.

I hope for your sake its at PCOM... cos if its Carib then you are making a grave mistake.

If it is a US acceptance, than congrats.

Just wish the ones who didnt get in would also come back, rather than the handful that take the time to go the GPA repair route.

 

[chirodocjrd]

Yep...PCOM! I spent 3 years total working my butt off, 2 years in PCOM's biomedical science masters program, and was lucky enough to get accepted.

Robflanker- I'm glad you didn't take my post wrong. I just reread it and it came across kinda pissy when I didn't mean it that way at all.

 

[DrMidlife]

Yep...PCOM! I spent 3 years total working my butt off, 2 years in PCOM's biomedical science masters program, and was lucky enough to get accepted.

This is a tremendous success. Very well done.

Please do a writeup in the nontrad low GPA success stories thread.