27yo in Texas want to be a future surgeon, do I stand a chance?

[FunFacts2023]

I've dived deep into the forum for about half a year now, thanks for all the info and sharing. I thought maybe I can post my background and seek some advice.

Background:

• Education: Bachelor of Architecture (5y GPA 3.77) + Master of Architecture (GPA 3.64)+ Master of Computer Science (GPA 3.83)
• Employment and Family: Being an Architect for 5+years, Married with kids, LGBTQ, First-generation college student
• Prerequisite Class: Need to basically take all prerequisites
• MCAT: Haven't taken any, but aim to start studying for MCAT as I take the prerequisites
• Shadowing/ Clinic/ Volunteering: No shadowing but prepare to get, no Clinic also plan to get, Use to volunteer in the very rural areas to help build houses and develop the village infrastructure + teach, stopped after starting working, plan to get more volunteering work

Plan:
Quitting my job to take all prerequisites starting 23 Fall at Rice (or another university in Houston cause that's my partner's job location), aiming for applying 2 years later. In the meantime shadow + volunteer as much as I can. Also plan to get trained and qualified as EMT / Certified Phlebotomy Technician. Not so sure about research, since my science education is not enough. But I have excellent digital modeling and illustrating skills + ability to write simple code/ run simple machine learning, so maybe I will still have a chance.

Questions:

• Is the opportunity cost too much? My current job does pay 100k/y. I want to quit because of a traumatizing incident connected close to the industry + I feel I can achieve more than 100k. I still love doing what I do, but I can no longer picture myself spending more years in this industry.
• Is any other school recommendation other than Rice? I tried to find a post-bacc program but really find none. We have family and kids now, so Houston is all I can do. Rice is expensive but I do want to prove I can get A-level grades from a top school. Plus I want to get some counselor advice from Rice, I am sure they sent dozens of students to Baylor each year...
• What other activity I can actively engage in? I do want to make sure this is something I want to do for the rest of my life. I thought for months about my decision of career changing and did a lot of research: talking to people, reading books, and watching Youtuber Doctors and Medical Students. Also talked with every doctor I met in life. I want to make sure I would like to be a doctor. Apart from shadowing/ volunteering / maybe getting an assistant job at a clinic, what else I can do to get better exposure to the truth of a healthcare career?
• Should I only apply within Texas or try other schools as well? I understand as a Texas resident, an instate application might be slightly more beneficial for me. I absolutely love Texas and its climate. That being said, me and my partner had studied and worked for years (5-10y) in NYC so lots of friends and connections there. She is very fond of NYC and might want to move back later. The other factor is (pardon me for my ignorance)... as an LGBTQ, I am not so sure if Texas schools would be prone to not accept me (since I did hear some unfriendly comments about LGBTQ). I of course want to study and practice in a place me and my family feel safe. So far Houston has been very diverse but I am not sure about other places...
• Any other advice? I want to make myself useful and give care to people in need. This calling partly comes from my natural characteristic, and partly comes from my traumatized experience. Work plays an important part in my life, I would like to love my job if I can. This is a big change, so I am actively seeking for any advice you would give.

My own little thoughts:
Strangely I found being an Architect sometimes is similar to being a doctor (in my observation), tell me if I am wrong 😉

Having to make a decision based on multiple resources that are fast changing and might not be true​

Constantly have to consult other disciplines and heavily rely on teamwork (I love being on a team)​

Sometimes have to make decisions/ take actions in a short time under huge pressure​

If screwed up, the cost is huge. (If a building is poorly designed, it would take even more money to remove or fix it)​

Can never truly know if a judgment call is fully right or not and have to live with the uncertainty​

Constantly learning new things, and you have to learn new things...​

Crazy hours... dedication to the work, aiming for a higher purpose​

Most of the time not doing anything fun, just always coordinating and documenting and trapped by regulations​

I realized I wrote too much, appreciate your reading! Please let me know if you think I stand a chance at MD school, I really enjoy working with my hands so being a surgeon is my dream, but I am open to suggestions.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[bomba]

I would recommend getting some clinical exposure before making a drastic decision like quitting your job. Ideally in a setting that exposes you to the less "glamorous" side of medicine--hospice is a good option. You may find that a medical career doesn't seem that appealing after a bit of clinical volunteering/shadowing, or that you have a stronger interest in an allied health field. Either way, proving to yourself that your interest in becoming a physician is genuine and not fleeting should be the first step.

 

[Snoozles]

re: where to take pre-reqs

I think it would be overkill to take basic science courses through Rice and pay private school tuition for freshman/sophomore level coursework. You can take these through HCC, U of H, or basically anything less expensive.

I also agree with having more direct clinical exposure before quitting your job. At the bare minimum, schedule 2-4 shadowing days in different specialties with any doctors you know so you can see the ugly side of things. My first shadowing experience was with an ophthalmologist. Surgery = cool! Clinic = fighting with insurance companies sprinkled with seeing patients.

 

[FunFacts2023]

I would recommend getting some clinical exposure before making a drastic decision like quitting your job. Ideally in a setting that exposes you to the less "glamorous" side of medicine--hospice is a good option. You may find that a medical career doesn't seem that appealing after a bit of clinical volunteering/shadowing, or that you have a stronger interest in an allied health field. Either way, proving to yourself that your interest in becoming a physician is genuine and not fleeting should be the first step.

Thank you for replying and offering this good advice. Yes, I've seen and read about it, but having no direct clinical exposure. Hospice being a good option is also a quite valid suggestion, I've read about it in 'Being Mortal' but I guess the reality would be a bit harsher. I would dig in

 

[FunFacts2023]

re: where to take pre-reqs

I think it would be overkill to take basic science courses through Rice and pay private school tuition for freshman/sophomore level coursework. You can take these through HCC, U of H, or basically anything less expensive.

I also agree with having more direct clinical exposure before quitting your job. At the bare minimum, schedule 2-4 shadowing days in different specialties with any doctors you know so you can see the ugly side of things. My first shadowing experience was with an ophthalmologist. Surgery = cool! Clinic = fighting with insurance companies sprinkled with seeing patients.

Appreciated! I did struggle a bit trying to determine whether it would be worth it... I went to an Ivy League school and that did play a factor when I applied for grad school, I just assumed that should still play a big factor. But I guess the MCAT weighs more in the application, good to know! It would be better if I can go to a relatively low-cost school, that would lighten the load for my family. Thank you for your suggestion!
I have a small follow-up since both replies suggest I start shadowing... If after shadowing, I still feel excited (or maybe just not dislike) this line of trade, would that be a strong reason that I can move forward? I've read books written by surgeons and know bits and pieces, I know it's nothing to compare to real-life shadowing but it also gave me their perspectives and thoughts. Is there anything else that can give me warnings about what to expect besides these resources?

 

[KaiBuzz]

I think Rice is the best option in Houston if you want to convince adcoms that you can handle the rigor of med school. Maybe try volunteering at a free clinic to see if medicine is for you.

 

[FunFacts2023]

I think Rice is the best option in Houston if you want to convince adcoms that you can handle the rigor of med school. Maybe try volunteering at a free clinic to see if medicine is for you.

That is my initial thought as well, it just boils down to whether the name is worth the buck, Rice is expensive. I would probably mix-match, and it might also give me more flexibility in my schedule. Thanks for your advice, yes Houston has a lot of hospitals and clinics so I would start there!

 

[Snoozles]

Maybe some adcoms can chime in to this difference of opinion. I'm not convinced spending many thousands of dollars on Rice is worth it for a non-trad student who attended an Ivy undergrad. Anecdotally, I took my pre-req coursework through community colleges and Biochem at a university, no one asked me about this on the interview trail. It seems like a reasonable MCAT score confirms sufficient knowledge of the basic sciences. Of course, if it works for your schedule and you can afford it, then obviously Rice is a prestigious institution and will provide an excellent education.

To answer the other question, OP, it seems like you're itching to quit your job? Reading books is a great way to be introduced to the field, but there's something about seeing, hearing, and smelling patients with your own senses that cannot be replicated. If you are still interested after some shadowing, I still wouldn't quit your day job until you absolutely have to unless you have alternative sources of income/support and a plan to fill the extra time with meaningful volunteering/extracurriculars. You would arrive at your application cycle with little/no recent work experience unless you decide to get a (lower-paying) clinical job like EMT, scribe, CNA, MA, etc.

 

[PandaBaer]

It's never a good idea to run towards something because you're running away from something else.

In the eyes of adcoms you're basically a high school graduate, the same rules apply to you as a freshmen pre-med. Ace your pre-reqs, ideally at prestigious schools, but it really doesn't matter too much, plenty of students accepted with only CC coursework. Crush the MCAT, this is the biggest determinate of which doors are open for you. Get enough clinical/volunteering experience to be able to convince the toughest critics you want to be a physician. Research is only necessary for academic med schools, but given your preference for urban environments might not be a bad idea, your coding/ML skills will help in doing quick dry lab projects. Age and family really isn't a factor for admissions nowadays, just make sure your family is flexible/comfortable with the demands of medical training, time/energy/cost/location.

 

[FunFacts2023]

Maybe some adcoms can chime in to this difference of opinion. I'm not convinced spending many thousands of dollars on Rice is worth it for a non-trad student who attended an Ivy undergrad. Anecdotally, I took my pre-req coursework through community colleges and Biochem at a university, no one asked me about this on the interview trail. It seems like a reasonable MCAT score confirms sufficient knowledge of the basic sciences. Of course, if it works for your schedule and you can afford it, then obviously Rice is a prestigious institution and will provide an excellent education.

To answer the other question, OP, it seems like you're itching to quit your job? Reading books is a great way to be introduced to the field, but there's something about seeing, hearing, and smelling patients with your own senses that cannot be replicated. If you are still interested after some shadowing, I still wouldn't quit your day job until you absolutely have to unless you have alternative sources of income/support and a plan to fill the extra time with meaningful volunteering/extracurriculars. You would arrive at your application cycle with little/no recent work experience unless you decide to get a (lower-paying) clinical job like EMT, scribe, CNA, MA, etc.

Appreciate your advice. I understand that you have been in my shoes before, thus the good advice.
I have thought about quitting my job for years, but like you said I don't want to quit it until I found something more meaningful. I do have a relatively successful career along the trip, but I've made up my mind. I know it might sound cheesy, but when I still suffer from PTSD 2 years after I left my last job position, I know I got to change to survive. For the fair amount of years I spent in this industry, the things I've seen and experienced, and the fact I know certain things would replay on me or someone in my position, it is unacceptable for me to continue. This is just explaining that quitting is not for the pursuit of anything, I quit because I thought about it for 3+ years and decided that is the best move. That being said, I haven't quit yet, partly because I am still performing very well in my current position and my colleague has good feedback. I am considering this because we are moving to Houston and my current position is not flexible for remote. Hopefully, that clears some doubt...

Yes, I know that a steady income and a job that currently still renders me useful would be crucial. I've thought about it and discussed it with my partner a number of times. I too fear that without a job, I might become cranky (I really do love working). So I will keep that in mind and maybe find a local job here in Houston. Your point is valid, I might not have enough extracurriculars to fill my time.

 

[FunFacts2023]

It's never a good idea to run towards something because you're running away from something else.

In the eyes of adcoms you're basically a high school graduate, the same rules apply to you as a freshmen pre-med. Ace your pre-reqs, ideally at prestigious schools, but it really doesn't matter too much, plenty of students accepted with only CC coursework. Crush the MCAT, this is the biggest determinate of which doors are open for you. Get enough clinical/volunteering experience to be able to convince the toughest critics you want to be a physician. Research is only necessary for academic med schools, but given your preference for urban environments might not be a bad idea, your coding/ML skills will help in doing quick dry lab projects. Age and family really isn't a factor for admissions nowadays, just make sure your family is flexible/comfortable with the demands of medical training, time/energy/cost/location.

No, it's not a good idea to run towards pre-med because I am running away from my current profession. Not to mention how much it would cost. I am posting here to get advice so I make sure I don't do that.
I feel I would love to be a doctor, but I can never know unless I do it. Shadowing would be a way to get exposure and I really appreciate the advice, I would start shadowing sooner than I planned before.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I think the one thing i find troublesome is that you were an architect and then you did computer science all at age 27. It makes me wonder why you're jumping industries and if medicine would turn into another regret

I don't think anyone will penalize your LGBT status. There are plenty of LGBT doctors in Texas and elsewhere

 

[gyngyn]

Rice is expensive.

You already have a "brand name" education. There is no need take basic classes at a fancy place. Take them anywhere and do well in them.
Shadow primary care docs (in their office or clinic). You never know what specialty will be available to you and most docs do primary care.

 

[FunFacts2023]

I think the one thing i find troublesome is that you were an architect and then you did computer science all at age 27. It makes me wonder why you're jumping industries and if medicine would turn into another regret

I don't think anyone will penalize your LGBT status. There are plenty of LGBT doctors in Texas and elsewhere

Relief to know that LGBTQ is still OK in Texas, just the recent political atmosphere is not too reassuring.
Good catch! I did a Computer Science Degree a couple of years ago (during the time I have a full-time job) cause my work needs it. Haha, Architects also code to make some of the most bizarre buildings you would see out there! And we interact with almost all the digital tools on the market as well, from AWS to ML to Robotic arms, etc.
Yes, a lot of people ask if I want to switch to the Tech industry and be a coder. I love communicating and engaging with real people, I don't like the fact programmer have to sit behind a computer and code most of the time. I also don't like the fact that Tech companies price efficiency higher than human beings (a typical example is takeout apps can be a lose-lose-lose for merchandizer, customer, and delivery person) but it's at the core of their mentality. Admittedly we can't live without the service they provide, I do want to pay my respect to all the programmers that make things happen, but it's not my line of trade.
That being said, I have a lot of friends who work in Tech companies and they are mostly nice people. But when we talk about some of the deeper issues, I can see how they think differently than me. Most of them do not like teamwork, but I love teamwork. Almost all of them have a tendency of thinking most questions have the right answer. (And there is nothing wrong with that, we need certainty) For me, most questions don't have and can never have a finite and right answer, the answer largely depends on the criteria.
So in short, I don't like Computer Science as a discipline or Software engineering as a job. Mainly cause I really think differently and value completely different things, which would create a lot of trouble if I go for that industry. Imagine your colleague told you a bug is only a bug in certain conditions, in other conditions, it's not a bug it's a feature (one of the typical CS jokes but I found it true). Or we can't just simply use some sorting mechanism to determine how to reward certain users because it's not fair, but maybe that sorting and rewarding really boosts usage by 300%.
A side note: Computer Science is something everyone should learn a bit in this world, it gives you perspective on how our digital world runs.

 

[FunFacts2023]

You already have a "brand name" education. There is no need take basic classes at a fancy place. Take them anywhere and do well in them.
Shadow primary care docs (in their office or clinic). You never know what specialty will be available to you and most docs do primary care.

Fair point! I would definitely shadow primary docs as well. One of my friend's partner is a primary doctor and they said primary docs have to know everything but then don't need to go into full details of it (that's where a specialist comes into play). My characteristic is I really love being an expert on one particular thing so I guess I didn't think too much about the possibility of being a primary doc. But I think your point of view is valid, yes I am not sure what I can get yet and primary is a good start.

 

[chilly_md]

So in short, I don't like Computer Science as a discipline or Software engineering as a job. Mainly cause I really think differently and value completely different things, which would create a lot of trouble if I go for that industry. Imagine your colleague told you a bug is only a bug in certain conditions, in other conditions, it's not a bug it's a feature (one of the typical CS jokes but I found it true). Or we can't just simply use some sorting mechanism to determine how to reward certain users because it's not fair, but maybe that sorting and rewarding really boosts usage by 300%.
A side note: Computer Science is something everyone should learn a bit in this world, it gives you perspective on how our digital world runs.

Consider the adjacent jobs such as being a tester, project manager (PM), analyst etc. These require more communication and you won’t have to be working as much on a computer like a software developer (particularly for PM or business analyst roles).

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Relief to know that LGBTQ is still OK in Texas, just the recent political atmosphere is not too reassuring.
Good catch! I did a Computer Science Degree a couple of years ago (during the time I have a full-time job) cause my work needs it. Haha, Architects also code to make some of the most bizarre buildings you would see out there! And we interact with almost all the digital tools on the market as well, from AWS to ML to Robotic arms, etc.
Yes, a lot of people ask if I want to switch to the Tech industry and be a coder. I love communicating and engaging with real people, I don't like the fact programmer have to sit behind a computer and code most of the time. I also don't like the fact that Tech companies price efficiency higher than human beings (a typical example is takeout apps can be a lose-lose-lose for merchandizer, customer, and delivery person) but it's at the core of their mentality. Admittedly we can't live without the service they provide, I do want to pay my respect to all the programmers that make things happen, but it's not my line of trade.
That being said, I have a lot of friends who work in Tech companies and they are mostly nice people. But when we talk about some of the deeper issues, I can see how they think differently than me. Most of them do not like teamwork, but I love teamwork. Almost all of them have a tendency of thinking most questions have the right answer. (And there is nothing wrong with that, we need certainty) For me, most questions don't have and can never have a finite and right answer, the answer largely depends on the criteria.
So in short, I don't like Computer Science as a discipline or Software engineering as a job. Mainly cause I really think differently and value completely different things, which would create a lot of trouble if I go for that industry. Imagine your colleague told you a bug is only a bug in certain conditions, in other conditions, it's not a bug it's a feature (one of the typical CS jokes but I found it true). Or we can't just simply use some sorting mechanism to determine how to reward certain users because it's not fair, but maybe that sorting and rewarding really boosts usage by 300%.
A side note: Computer Science is something everyone should learn a bit in this world, it gives you perspective on how our digital world runs.

If the CS degree were to improve upon your architecture degree, that's a totally fine explanation, and I don't see a reason to hold it against you

 

[FunFacts2023]

Consider the adjacent jobs such as being a tester, project manager (PM), analyst etc. These require more communication and you won’t have to be working as much on a computer like a software developer (particularly for PM or business analyst roles).

That is entirely true.
Frankly speaking, a few of my colleagues went to companies does architecture software to serve as customer specialists. Me and my partner talked about this. If I am not able to get into any medical school after 2 years, I would go fight for a PM job. After all, we all have bills to pay. But like I said, I've already known what I don't like about Tech companies, so I want to see if I can have a better choice.

 

[chilly_md]

That is entirely true.
Frankly speaking, a few of my colleagues went to companies does architecture software to serve as customer specialists. Me and my partner talked about this. If I am not able to get into any medical school after 2 years, I would go fight for a PM job. After all, we all have bills to pay. But like I said, I've already known what I don't like about Tech companies, so I want to see if I can have a better choice.

As gyngyn pointed out, you can take your pre-reqs anywhere. Since you’re moving to Houston, I would suggest University of Houston for cost and convenience.

 

[esob]

There are lots of other opportunities in Houston to take prereqs. There is zero reason to take them at Rice...Except if you are going to take enough classes to qualify for their health professions committee letter (or whatever they call it). Rice has an astounding record of placing premeds. Their average, last I checked (which was four years ago), was the highest in Texas. The caveat is that it will cost money, and you will likely have to be better than the average bear to score A's @ Rice compared to less-rigorous institutions. If you can swing the cost and the above access to a premed committee is true, it could be a power play.

Why is this, you might ask? The sheer volume of applications that med schools deal with creates a dire need for a sorting/screening system. You are likely already familiar with some metrics, including MCAT, sGPA, and cGPA. Still, this can still leave a sizeable stack of applications to sort through and there are plenty of mitigating circumstances regarding why someone might have done poorly in a class or made an average MCAT score, and there is a real opportunity cost to missing out on those applicants. This is where the committee letter comes in. The premed committees (at institutions that have them) typically serve as gatekeepers in multiple ways. Importantly, they can decline to provide a letter for anyone that might look good on paper but is otherwise well-known to the members as lacking in some substantive way. However, perhaps the most imperative function they serve is to provide a numerical rank against your peers. This usually comes in the form of "FunFacts2023 represents the top quartile of SDN University's premed students this cycle," boldly printed as the first line of your committee letter. And, while no one knows what cutoff's medical schools might use, the higher the percentile, the better. It also stands to reason that the top quartile at Rice is > the top quartile at a less rigorous institution.

Most universities require you to take a certain amount of courses in their curriculum, however, in order to qualify for a letter.

 

[FunFacts2023]

There are lots of other opportunities in Houston to take prereqs. There is zero reason to take them at Rice...Except if you are going to take enough classes to qualify for their health professions committee letter (or whatever they call it). Rice has an astounding record of placing premeds. Their average, last I checked (which was four years ago), was the highest in Texas. The caveat is that it will cost money, and you will likely have to be better than the average bear to score A's @ Rice compared to less-rigorous institutions. If you can swing the cost and the above access to a premed committee is true, it could be a power play.

Why is this, you might ask? The sheer volume of applications that med schools deal with creates a dire need for a sorting/screening system. You are likely already familiar with some metrics, including MCAT, sGPA, and cGPA. Still, this can still leave a sizeable stack of applications to sort through and there are plenty of mitigating circumstances regarding why someone might have done poorly in a class or made an average MCAT score, and there is a real opportunity cost to missing out on those applicants. This is where the committee letter comes in. The premed committees (at institutions that have them) typically serve as gatekeepers in multiple ways. Importantly, they can decline to provide a letter for anyone that might look good on paper but is otherwise well-known to the members as lacking in some substantive way. However, perhaps the most imperative function they serve is to provide a numerical rank against your peers. This usually comes in the form of "FunFacts2023 represents the top quartile of SDN University's premed students this cycle," boldly printed as the first line of your committee letter. And, while no one knows what cutoff's medical schools might use, the higher the percentile, the better. It also stands to reason that the top quartile at Rice is > the top quartile at a less rigorous institution.

Most universities require you to take a certain amount of courses in their curriculum, however, in order to qualify for a letter.

This is very useful info! Thank you esob!
I searched for a NYC/ CT post-bacc program before I know we would move to Houston. Uconn post-bacc officer told me they no longer provide committee letters but they still put together a package for people who do well in post-bacc. My previous academic record clearly shows that I can handle coursework well, so he feels confident that I will get a nice package. I was trying to look for something similar when I start searching in Houston, you clearly answered a question in my mind! I also find schools that have post-bacc have better connections with affiliated hospitals (where you can get more responses if you send cold emails) and volunteering opportunities. Those are the things I might find hard to initiate since I knew no one in Houston. A school connection would help me establish connections faster.

I haven't competed with Ivy level students for almost 8 years, so I am not so sure if I am still good enough. Getting an A from other schools might be better than getting a B or lower from Rice. I'll weigh in those factors and think it through, thanks for the good info!

 

[esob]

This is very useful info! Thank you esob!
I searched for a NYC/ CT post-bacc program before I know we would move to Houston. Uconn post-bacc officer told me they no longer provide committee letters but they still put together a package for people who do well in post-bacc. My previous academic record clearly shows that I can handle coursework well, so he feels confident that I will get a nice package. I was trying to look for something similar when I start searching in Houston, you clearly answered a question in my mind! I also find schools that have post-bacc have better connections with affiliated hospitals (where you can get more responses if you send cold emails) and volunteering opportunities. Those are the things I might find hard to initiate since I knew no one in Houston. A school connection would help me establish connections faster.

I haven't competed with Ivy level students for almost 8 years, so I am not so sure if I am still good enough. Getting an A from other schools might be better than getting a B or lower from Rice. I'll weigh in those factors and think it through, thanks for the good info!

You are 100% correct that an A from another school > B from Rice

 

[DocJanItor]

I've dived deep into the forum for about half a year now, thanks for all the info and sharing. I thought maybe I can post my background and seek some advice.

Background:

• Education: Bachelor of Architecture (5y GPA 3.77) + Master of Architecture (GPA 3.64)+ Master of Computer Science (GPA 3.83)
• Employment and Family: Being an Architect for 5+years, Married with kids, LGBTQ, First-generation college student
• Prerequisite Class: Need to basically take all prerequisites
• MCAT: Haven't taken any, but aim to start studying for MCAT as I take the prerequisites
• Shadowing/ Clinic/ Volunteering: No shadowing but prepare to get, no Clinic also plan to get, Use to volunteer in the very rural areas to help build houses and develop the village infrastructure + teach, stopped after starting working, plan to get more volunteering work

Plan:
Quitting my job to take all prerequisites starting 23 Fall at Rice (or another university in Houston cause that's my partner's job location), aiming for applying 2 years later. In the meantime shadow + volunteer as much as I can. Also plan to get trained and qualified as EMT / Certified Phlebotomy Technician. Not so sure about research, since my science education is not enough. But I have excellent digital modeling and illustrating skills + ability to write simple code/ run simple machine learning, so maybe I will still have a chance.

Questions:

• Is the opportunity cost too much? My current job does pay 100k/y. I want to quit because of a traumatizing incident connected close to the industry + I feel I can achieve more than 100k. I still love doing what I do, but I can no longer picture myself spending more years in this industry.
• Is any other school recommendation other than Rice? I tried to find a post-bacc program but really find none. We have family and kids now, so Houston is all I can do. Rice is expensive but I do want to prove I can get A-level grades from a top school. Plus I want to get some counselor advice from Rice, I am sure they sent dozens of students to Baylor each year...
• What other activity I can actively engage in? I do want to make sure this is something I want to do for the rest of my life. I thought for months about my decision of career changing and did a lot of research: talking to people, reading books, and watching Youtuber Doctors and Medical Students. Also talked with every doctor I met in life. I want to make sure I would like to be a doctor. Apart from shadowing/ volunteering / maybe getting an assistant job at a clinic, what else I can do to get better exposure to the truth of a healthcare career?
• Should I only apply within Texas or try other schools as well? I understand as a Texas resident, an instate application might be slightly more beneficial for me. I absolutely love Texas and its climate. That being said, me and my partner had studied and worked for years (5-10y) in NYC so lots of friends and connections there. She is very fond of NYC and might want to move back later. The other factor is (pardon me for my ignorance)... as an LGBTQ, I am not so sure if Texas schools would be prone to not accept me (since I did hear some unfriendly comments about LGBTQ). I of course want to study and practice in a place me and my family feel safe. So far Houston has been very diverse but I am not sure about other places...
• Any other advice? I want to make myself useful and give care to people in need. This calling partly comes from my natural characteristic, and partly comes from my traumatized experience. Work plays an important part in my life, I would like to love my job if I can. This is a big change, so I am actively seeking for any advice you would give.

My own little thoughts:
Strangely I found being an Architect sometimes is similar to being a doctor (in my observation), tell me if I am wrong 😉

Having to make a decision based on multiple resources that are fast changing and might not be true​

Constantly have to consult other disciplines and heavily rely on teamwork (I love being on a team)​

Sometimes have to make decisions/ take actions in a short time under huge pressure​

If screwed up, the cost is huge. (If a building is poorly designed, it would take even more money to remove or fix it)​

Can never truly know if a judgment call is fully right or not and have to live with the uncertainty​

Constantly learning new things, and you have to learn new things...​

Crazy hours... dedication to the work, aiming for a higher purpose​

Most of the time not doing anything fun, just always coordinating and documenting and trapped by regulations​

I realized I wrote too much, appreciate your reading! Please let me know if you think I stand a chance at MD school, I really enjoy working with my hands so being a surgeon is my dream, but I am open to suggestions.

General surgery residency is 5 years long. If you chose to go for a fellowship, you'll need a minimum of 1 year of research (likely 2) and then the fellowship itself of 1-2 years. That's a minimum of 5 years, max of 9. And that's not counting med school, pre reqs, MCAT. All in all you're looking at 10-15 years before you're practicing on your own.

Also, if you have PTSD from being an architect I have really bad news about surgeons...

 

[FunFacts2023]

General surgery residency is 5 years long. If you chose to go for a fellowship, you'll need a minimum of 1 year of research (likely 2) and then the fellowship itself of 1-2 years. That's a minimum of 5 years, max of 9. And that's not counting med school, pre reqs, MCAT. All in all you're looking at 10-15 years before you're practicing on your own.

Also, if you have PTSD from being an architect I have really bad news about surgeons...

Yes, me and my partner have talked about the timely cost of this career change. Let's say I am willing to suffer in advance to be eventually in a career that is fulfilling. Work means a lot to me and I would only expect those residency years to be very very tiring but also exciting.

Without getting into details, I want to clarify I am not saying I got PTSD from practicing as an architect. I know that the architecture industry is intense and yes I've been working long hours under stress and being bullied and etc. I do not intend to hide my disappointment in this industry. Honestly, even if I tribute my PTSD partly to the industry, I know how to cope with it better now than people who have never been under that kind of extreme scenario. I have been through meltdowns and recovered from them, then more meltdowns and recovered and witness more people having meltdowns but never recovering and I guess you saw similar things in the healthcare industry. A fun fact is architects have a starting wage of around 50k and after 10yr of practice it caps at around 100k-150k and stops there if you don't make it to a partner. Not saying money is everything, but I do want to point out that while the same suffering, some industries have better compensation systems.

 

[EmperorK]

Yes, me and my partner have talked about the timely cost of this career change. Let's say I am willing to suffer in advance to be eventually in a career that is fulfilling. Work means a lot to me and I would only expect those residency years to be very very tiring but also exciting.

Without getting into details, I want to clarify I am not saying I got PTSD from practicing as an architect. I know that the architecture industry is intense and yes I've been working long hours under stress and being bullied and etc. I do not intend to hide my disappointment in this industry. Honestly, even if I tribute my PTSD partly to the industry, I know how to cope with it better now than people who have never been under that kind of extreme scenario. I have been through meltdowns and recovered from them, then more meltdowns and recovered and witness more people having meltdowns but never recovering and I guess you saw similar things in the healthcare industry. A fun fact is architects have a starting wage of around 50k and after 10yr of practice it caps at around 100k-150k and stops there if you don't make it to a partner. Not saying money is everything, but I do want to point out that while the same suffering, some industries have better compensation systems.

Can I be honest? What makes you think all this won't happen in medicine? Cause now you're saying it pays more. The other issue is why surgery? That's like going from working one hundred hours at a tech firm to working one hundred hours as a surgeon just because it pays more, which is fine but comes across as contradictory reading your posts.

 

[FunFacts2023]

Can I be honest? What makes you think all this won't happen in medicine? Cause now you're saying it pays more. The other issue is why surgery? That's like going from working one hundred hours at a tech firm to working one hundred hours as a surgeon just because it pays more, which is fine but comes across as contradictory reading your posts.

Haha didn't I just say I knew it will also happen in medicine...? To elaborate, I am talking about long hours, high stress-high stakes, low income (in residency), high burnout rate, bully, gaslighting, and all kinds of discrimination. If I fancy so much about a 'good culture' I would have gone for Tech companies.

What I hope I shall find (by all means correct me if you think it's none-existence) is a calling, something bigger than myself that I am willing to make sacrifices to see done. I am talking about the privilege of company and facilitating a fragment of one's life.

I know the money talk would stir up some doubts but I put it down in my last reply anyway. I too ask myself frequently, did I choose this for the money? Because that would be a horrible decision: I did a calculation of my current income plus possible income from saving and investment vs 6yr pure spending and 5-10 very little income. Switching my career now to being a doctor financially is not a good choice at all. Even if everything went well, I would only begin to tie the earning gap in my mid-40th or even near 50th. Would I even live that long? What if I die in a car accident in the middle of this journey? Would all these be good enough reasons for me to stay where I am, and stop taking risks? I ask myself at least three times a day whether it would be worth it. I also question if I am still able to learn like a college student with all the responsibilities of family, kids, etc. Plus I am giving up a career that I once loved, I know how much it hurts when wasting precious time on something wrong.

I don't know the answers to all my anxiety for sure. But I'll explain why I bring out the money talk in my last reply. It is mainly to say: Hey, I might have never been in exact same toxic environment, but I've been in a similar toxic environment before, for a long while, and for less money. If this is a competition of who survives the toxic work environment, I think at least I would 'survive'. So I am not too worried about it, I've survived before, and I would only do better the next time. Needless to say, I aim to have a life slightly better than surviving, that's where (I hope) the satisfaction of being able to help save lives/improve life quality would come into play.

For surgery, not sure about that either but it's the thing I generally liked (echoed with) after some understanding of what each specialty does. I understand the surgery training is a very demanding road, not sure if I am physically strong enough for that either. That being said, I do not rule out the possibility I might be a primary doctor or an ob-gyn or something else ... who knows what I end up being able to match into?

Dentists earn a lot too, but I do not like to work with teeth so I choose not to even consider it.
EmperorK I do want to thank you for being honest and speaking directly. I know I need to be questioned, verified, and double-checked before I embarked.