3.6 BCPM vs 3.7 BCPM

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bnleong

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How big of a difference would this would make for my application( 3.6 vs 3.7 bcpm)

Is there a big difference between students with a 3.6 vs a 3.7. Technically speaking 3.7 is the A- cutoff. How do adcoms view this?
 
they view students who view this as an issue to be too neurotic to become physicians
 
How is a 0.1 difference in GPA "neurotic"?

A 0.1 difference is the same as getting a D instead of an A in a class.
 
3.7 is obviously better than 3.6, but not that big a deal.
 
I think it makes a difference. If you look at the average science gpa of schools like Albert Einstein, or Mt. Sinai, its like 3.7 or 3.8. Now if you have a lower grade than that it certainly puts you at a disdavantage.
 
It matters. Everything in this process matters.
 
bnleong said:
How big of a difference would this would make for my application( 3.6 vs 3.7 bcpm)

Is there a big difference between students with a 3.6 vs a 3.7. Technically speaking 3.7 is the A- cutoff. How do adcoms view this?
Click to expand...

What difference does it make? Are you going to take another year of classes to try to raise your BCPM from 3.6 to 3.7? If not, it's irrelevant. If so, how do you know you're going to raise your GPA? What if it went down? Then you'd not only have spent money for another year of school as well as given up a year of future earnings in addition to hurting your chacces.
 
i agree with the above that this will make little difference - schools look at the applicant as a whole, not just .1 diff. in the GPA. get a good MCAT, be an interesting person at your interview, and a 3.6 will do you just fine.
 
drizzt3117 said:
What difference does it make?
Click to expand...

👍👍👍👍👍

this is the correct answer...SO WHAT?? as long as you are trying your best in your classes you will end up with whatever GPA you end up with....of course it is "better" to have a higher GPA...noone should be arguing otherwise....but, to paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld: "you apply to med school with the GPA you have" (his quote was "you go to war with the army you have" in case anyone was wondering)....the difference between a 3.6 and 3.7 absolutely doesn't matter as far as we are concerned because noone should go out of their way (by doing post bacc or SMP or whatever) to improve their 3.6 GPA...and if you are still in undergrad you should be trying your hardest and aiming for a 4.0 every semester anyway
 
skinMD said:
👍👍👍👍👍

this is the correct answer...SO WHAT?? as long as you are trying your best in your classes you will end up with whatever GPA you end up with....of course it is "better" to have a higher GPA...noone should be arguing otherwise....but, to paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld: "you apply to med school with the GPA you have" (his quote was "you go to war with the army you have" in case anyone was wondering)....the difference between a 3.6 and 3.7 absolutely doesn't matter as far as we are concerned because noone should go out of their way (by doing post bacc or SMP or whatever) to improve their 3.6 GPA...and if you are still in undergrad you should be trying your hardest and aiming for a 4.0 every semester anyway
Click to expand...


Says the guy with a 3.5 BCMP and who only got into SUNY schools.


0.1 GPA points matters when it comes to top schools.
 
shindotp said:
Says the guy with a 3.5 BCMP and who only got into SUNY schools.


0.1 GPA points matters when it comes to top schools.
Click to expand...

It matters in terms of competitiveness for med school but doesn't matter in terms of how an applicant should behave. It's not smart to take classes to try to improve a 3.6 after you're already graduated and you should always try to get As when you are pursuing a degree so I don't see what difference it makes for the OP.

So if we're having a theoretical argument and comparing two students who are similar in every way except 0.1 point difference in BCPM, yes, it matters. In terms of how it should affect the OP's behavior, it doesn't matter.
 
Agree with SkinMD. What kind of d-bag criticizes someone for getting into med school? If you get into a med school in the US, you're a smart guy. F off to anyone who says otherwise.

Not only that, but it IS neurotic to stress over a 3.6 vs. a 3.7. Yeah, a 3.7 looks better. Guess what? A 33 looks better than a 32 on the MCATs, are you going to stress over that as well? I hope not.
 
Sometimes a 3.6 can look better than a 3.7. Like if the admissions committee member who is reviewing your file happens to really really like the number 3.6. Maybe if his birthday is March 6? And his dog died on March 7?
 
shindotp said:
Says the guy with a 3.5 BCMP and who only got into SUNY schools.


0.1 GPA points matters when it comes to top schools.
Click to expand...

What does it matter that he only got into SUNY schools? He is still right and going to attend an accredited US medical school.
 
shindotp said:
Says the guy with a 3.5 BCMP and who only got into SUNY schools.


0.1 GPA points matters when it comes to top schools.
Click to expand...

guys, shindotp seems like a troll. I've read couple posts made by him, and he seems really belligerent and bitter.

Don't take his comments too seriously, skinMD. And congrats for acceptance into great schools!
 
LOL!!!!

Nice job protecting your ego there.

You did do a great job! For your crappy stats that is. Oh, would it have made a difference if I got into med school by now? Alright, when I get into a better med school than you a couple of years from now, I'll give you a message and let you know 😉

And if you think I give a crap what your life has been like, you're wrong. The only reason you call my comment "******ed" is because it's truthful and you have to protect your self-esteem. Which is totally understandable - you don't have much to be proud of so you have to protect what you do have (your two acceptances to SUNY schools).

Congrats on being able to accomplish sooooo much with your limited capabilities.
 
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If you're thinking about going back to school to raise your GPA, don't. If you're debating slacking off during your senior year and dropping your GPA to a 3.6 versus putting in some more effort and getting a 3.7, put in the effort. As was said above, every bit helps.
 
vin5cent0 said:
Agree with SkinMD. What kind of d-bag criticizes someone for getting into med school? If you get into a med school in the US, you're a smart guy. F off to anyone who says otherwise.

Not only that, but it IS neurotic to stress over a 3.6 vs. a 3.7. Yeah, a 3.7 looks better. Guess what? A 33 looks better than a 32 on the MCATs, are you going to stress over that as well? I hope not.
Click to expand...

1. I wasn't criticizing him for getting into medical school. I was criticizing his statement that nothing matters other than you get into medical school (like it's a 0 or 1 in binary).

2. I never said he wasn't smart... I will say that you're not very bright though.
 
shindotp said:
LOL!!!!

Nice job protecting your ego there.

You did do a great job! For your crappy stats that is. Oh, would it have made a difference if I got into med school by now? Alright, when I get into a better med school than you a couple of years from now, I'll give you a message and let you know 😉

And if you think I give a crap what your life has been like, you're wrong. The only reason you call my comment "******ed" is because it's truthful and you have to protect your self-esteem. Which is totally understandable - you don't have much to be proud of so you have to protect what you do have (your two acceptances to SUNY schools).

Congrats on being able to accomplish so much with your limited capabilities.

EDIT: Btw, calm down please. It's amusing how many people here think they're the sh** when they're just sh**.
Click to expand...


People like these need to get banned (or just die). Hopefully, a mod will take notice.
 
shindotp said:
LOL!!!!

Nice job protecting your ego there.

You did do a great job! For your crappy stats that is. Oh, would it have made a difference if I got into med school by now? Alright, when I get into a better med school than you a couple of years from now, I'll give you a message and let you know 😉

And if you think I give a crap what your life has been like, you're wrong. The only reason you call my comment "******ed" is because it's truthful and you have to protect your self-esteem. Which is totally understandable - you don't have much to be proud of so you have to protect what you do have (your two acceptances to SUNY schools).

Congrats on being able to accomplish sooooo much with your limited capabilities.
Click to expand...

when some idiot says stupid incendiary crap directed at me i have to put them in their place....that's why i responded to your garbage

i'm not going to dignify the rest of your BS with a response ....go back to trying to be a bully on WoW cause you've obviously failed at it here

wow-jenkins.jpg
 
Hey I didnt expect this post to turn into a flame war. It was just a simple question.

Btw, I am not too neurotic about my grades.I've just read so many posts here on sdn emphasizing the importance of gpas and MCATS that its getting me a little paranoid.

I mean you need to be a little bit neurotic about your grades. How else do you keep them high?
 
shindotp said:
1. I wasn't criticizing him for getting into medical school. I was criticizing his statement that nothing matters other than you get into medical school (like it's a 0 or 1 in binary).

2. I never said he wasn't smart... I will say that you're not very bright though.
Click to expand...

What other logical assumption is there to make about someone belittling someone who can only get into a bad school? Thanks, genius.
 
shindotp said:
1. I wasn't criticizing him for getting into medical school. I was criticizing his statement that nothing matters other than you get into medical school (like it's a 0 or 1 in binary).

2. I never said he wasn't smart... I will say that you're not very bright though.
Click to expand...

1. if you are using US News as your holy grail of what a "good" school is...one of the schools i got into is among the 60 ranked schools so that would not make it a "bad" school using the criteria that i'm sure you're using. and with < 50% of applicants getting into ANY med school in a given cycle i think getting in definitely by far matters the most. plus SUNYs are half price!

2. i went to an ivy league school so i'm pretty darn smart and bright thankyouverymuch
 
Skin, don't even worry about it. You've managed to get two acceptances, which is two more than many applicants are able to get. Who cares if one person chooses to trivialize that accomplishment? You've done a great job and you should be proud of your acceptances.
 
shindotp said:
but I'm a freshman so I was ineligible for many...
Click to expand...

Apparently shindotp is a freshman (according to one of his previous posts), so he/she hasn't been broken by four years of college + the MCAT yet...interesting.

/stalker

:meanie:
 
bnleong said:
Hey I didnt expect this post to turn into a flame war. It was just a simple question.

Btw, I am not too neurotic about my grades.I've just read so many posts here on sdn emphasizing the importance of gpas and MCATS that its getting me a little paranoid.

I mean you need to be a little bit neurotic about your grades. How else do you keep them high?
Click to expand...

GPA and MCAT are important, b/c they're really the only two solid numbers and ADCOM can look at. The debate can rage on forever about how this correlates with being succesfull in med school/as a physician, but they're not going anywhere any time soon. The higher your #s, the better your chances of having someone seriously look through the rest of your application and decide if you should be invited for an interview or not. As someone who barely snuck into school b/c of a subpar undergrad GPA, my advice is to shoot for the best GPA you can get. Don't let this turn you into a 60hr/week of studying/don't do anything else type person b/c college is awesome and shouldn't be missed, but put in the work you know you need to put in to do well.
 
when comes down to you vs another applicant, the one with 3.7 over 3.6 will do better, same as saying the difference between a 30 and a 31...
 
bleedblue said:
when comes down to you vs another applicant, the one with 3.7 over 3.6 will do better, same as saying the difference between a 30 and a 31...
Click to expand...

I think there is a greater difference in terms of how it will be viewed by adcoms between the grades in your example as opposed to the MCAT score...
 
flip26 said:
I think there is a greater difference in terms of how it will be viewed by adcoms between the grades in your example as opposed to the MCAT score...
Click to expand...

I think science GPA matters less than cumulative GPA, in my experience. I had 4.0 BCPM with a somewhat lower cumulative, and my experience was closer to those students who had my cumulative GPA than my science.

You're right that one point difference in BCPM may make a bigger difference than one point in MCAT but I would say it depends on where that point is... 29-30, 30-31, 31-32, etc... are pretty big thresholds, 41-42 is essentially meaningless.
 
shindotp said:
LOL!!!!

Nice job protecting your ego there.

You did do a great job! For your crappy stats that is. Oh, would it have made a difference if I got into med school by now? Alright, when I get into a better med school than you a couple of years from now, I'll give you a message and let you know 😉

And if you think I give a crap what your life has been like, you're wrong. The only reason you call my comment "******ed" is because it's truthful and you have to protect your self-esteem. Which is totally understandable - you don't have much to be proud of so you have to protect what you do have (your two acceptances to SUNY schools).

Congrats on being able to accomplish sooooo much with your limited capabilities.
Click to expand...


Really now, counting your chickens before they hatch?

Education is means to an end. A doctor is a doctor is a doctor. What other title do you get by attending one school instead of another? Besides, it's not like the SUNYs are at the lower end of the spectrum. In fact, SUNY upstate has a median 3.7 BCPM GPA and median 32 MCAT for accepted students.
--

What I would like to know is the weighted difference between GPA and MCAT. Do more schools like to see MCAT over GPA? (As long GPA is acceptable. About 3.4+) Because, certain udergrad universities are just more competitive than others. I mean, is a 4.0 at a city college that much better than say, a 3.5 at an ivy? This is not to say those who go to city colleges are less deserving than others; however, the difficulty and competition are lopsided. (My friend has a 4.0; I've seen her work and I feel like I can do it blindfolded) I am a huge proponent of the MCAT (Yes, even the verbal). I can't see another way of standardizing results besides making all pre-meds go to one big school. Now, I know there are other factors to an app but which is more favored: GPA or MCAT?

I am starting to regret shelling out 20k a year (As opposed to the city paying me 3k a year to go to a city college) for an ivy education. For what? More time needed to study to achieve the same results (even though it is almost near impossible to achieve a 4.0 at any top tier school)? For bragging rights (80k for a different school name on some piece of paper)? The challenge and evironment are great but it is a little disheartening that someone else can do 10 times less and still have a slightly better chance in the admission's process. I wish someone had informed me about this whole process and I should've researched it myself. I guess having senioritis while holding an acceptance letter in my hand proved detrimental to my perception of the process. (But it's not like my parents would have let me choose otherwise)

Anyway, I know that a 3.7 is comparably better than 3.6 and, as the OP mentioned, it is the difference between a B+ and A-. But, I figure, that you can always make this up through research work, hospital experience, a good interview and by trying your best on the MCAT (This means studying as much as possible).
 
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drizzt3117 said:
I think science GPA matters less than cumulative GPA, in my experience. I had 4.0 BCPM with a somewhat lower cumulative, and my experience was closer to those students who had my cumulative GPA than my science.

You're right that one point difference in BCPM may make a bigger difference than one point in MCAT but I would say it depends on where that point is... 29-30, 30-31, 31-32, etc... are pretty big thresholds, 41-42 is essentially meaningless.
Click to expand...

I realize now that the discussion was on BCPM; my point on the diff between a 3.6 and 3.7 was really directed at cum GPA.
 
MedicScholar said:
Anyway, I know that a 3.7 is comparably better than 3.6 and, as the OP mentioned, it is the difference between a B+ and A-. But, I figure, that you can always make this up through research work, hospital experience, a good interview and by trying your best on the MCAT (This means studying as much as possible).
Click to expand...

This probably depends on where exactly that 0.1 is. Is it a 3.4-3.5? One might get your full application looked at, the other might get a quick trip to the trash bin, depending on the school
 
nogolfinsnow said:
This probably depends on where exactly that 0.1 is. Is it a 3.4-3.5? One might get your full application looked at, the other might get a quick trip to the trash bin, depending on the school
Click to expand...

That's the thing. GPA's are not equally weighted assessments. A high GPA at a top tier school is considerably harder to obtain. Now, would a 3.8 30 MCAT App at a lower tier college be better than say a 3.3 37 MCAT app at a top tier undergrad (with everything else being similar)? Some schools won't even look at 3.3's but is that a necessarily good judgement protocol?

Would a 3.7 BCPM even with a cGPA at 3.4 or lower be looked at?

The whole process is convoluted.
 
GPA and MCAT are both important. I think MCAT is slightly more important but they are both stats that will make a difference in your application. The school you attend for undergrad is taken into account, but most likely not enough to make up for the difference in degree of difficulty between schools.


MedicScholar said:
Really now, counting your chickens before they hatch?

Education is means to an end. A doctor is a doctor is a doctor. What other title do you get by attending one school instead of another? Besides, it's not like the SUNYs are at the lower end of the spectrum. In fact, SUNY upstate has a median 3.7 BCPM GPA and median 32 MCAT for accepted students.
--

What I would like to know is the weighted difference between GPA and MCAT. Do more schools like to see MCAT over GPA? (As long GPA is acceptable. About 3.4+) Because, certain udergrad universities are just more competitive than others. I mean, is a 4.0 at a city college that much better than say, a 3.5 at an ivy? This is not to say those who go to city colleges are less deserving than others; however, the difficulty and competition are lopsided. (My friend has a 4.0; I've seen her work and I feel like I can do it blindfolded) I am a huge proponent of the MCAT (Yes, even the verbal). I can't see another way of standardizing results besides making all pre-meds go to one big school. Now, I know there are other factors to an app but which is more favored: GPA or MCAT?

I am starting to regret shelling out 20k a year (As opposed to the city paying me 3k a year to go to a city college) for an ivy education. For what? More time needed to study to achieve the same results (even though it is almost near impossible to achieve a 4.0 at any top tier school)? For bragging rights (80k for a different school name on some piece of paper)? The challenge and evironment are great but it is a little disheartening that someone else can do 10 times less and still have a slightly better chance in the admission's process. I wish someone had informed me about this whole process and I should've researched it myself. I guess having senioritis while holding an acceptance letter in my hand proved detrimental to my perception of the process. (But it's not like my parents would have let me choose otherwise)

Anyway, I know that a 3.7 is comparably better than 3.6 and, as the OP mentioned, it is the difference between a B+ and A-. But, I figure, that you can always make this up through research work, hospital experience, a good interview and by trying your best on the MCAT (This means studying as much as possible).
Click to expand...
 
MedicScholar said:
That's the thing. GPA's are not equally weighted assessments. A high GPA at a top tier school is considerably harder to obtain. Now, would a 3.8 30 MCAT App at a lower tier college be better than say a 3.3 37 MCAT app at a top tier undergrad (with everything else being similar)? Some schools won't even look at 3.3's but is that a necessarily good judgement protocol?

Would a 3.7 BCPM even with a cGPA at 3.4 or lower be looked at?

The whole process is convoluted.
Click to expand...

Everyone's experiences are difficult. I went to a notoriously difficult undergrad and took few courses that fall into the BCPM (was an engineering major) got 4.0 in postbac and had a high MCAT and did well with the top tiers. That said, just because you go to a good school doesn't mean you're going to get away with poor academic performance. Med school is composed of people who in many cases are in the top 5-10% of their undergrad classes and you'll be competing with these people. It's not surprising for people who aren't used to getting anything but As to be in the bottom 50% of their med school classes.

To answer your question, though, many schools have specific people in admissions looking at every candidate from a certain set of undergrad schools, so they look at candidates from those schools from year to year and know how to compare their performances.
 
shindotp said:
Says the guy with a 3.5 BCMP and who only got into SUNY schools.


0.1 GPA points matters when it comes to top schools.
Click to expand...

BlueElmo said:
People like these need to get banned (or just die). Hopefully, a mod will take notice.
Click to expand...


unfortunately the mod did take notice, kept all the troll posts and deleted my (very witty) response to a post where someone attacked me (above)....thank you to those who helped try to put this troll in his place....here is a very watered down version of my response to shindotp's above comment (no more george bush giving anyone the finger 🙁):

[...] i have a 3.6/3.5/33 (in a difficult engineering major at a top school) and got into schools with medians of 3.7/3.6/32 [...]

[...]

oh and go check out this thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=602862 ...be sure to count the number of people with better stats than me who haven't gotten in anywhere yet

0.1 GPA points only matters to people who have nothing else to offer

i dont have my MDapps linked there so [people] like you who haven't even applied yet can make [stupid] comments like the one above, i have it up there cause i'm [very] proud of what i've accomplished despite the enormous hurdles that were in my way

[....]
Click to expand...
 
MedicScholar said:
That's the thing. GPA's are not equally weighted assessments. A high GPA at a top tier school is considerably harder to obtain. Now, would a 3.8 30 MCAT App at a lower tier college be better than say a 3.3 37 MCAT app at a top tier undergrad (with everything else being similar)? Some schools won't even look at 3.3's but is that a necessarily good judgement protocol?

Would a 3.7 BCPM even with a cGPA at 3.4 or lower be looked at?

The whole process is convoluted.
Click to expand...

It truly is one giant mess b/c it's hard to compare GPAs across schools. Some big name schools have grade inflation issues, some are insanely hard. It works the same way at some smaller,lesser known schools and state schools, too. A good rule of thumb is probably to keep both GPAs at least 3.5 (bare minimum) and rock the MCAT. Even at a school w/ hard grading policies, people will be applying with 3.7+ GPAs, so having a 3.3 and claiming hard school won't get you much sympathy. If you go to a state school (not knocking them, I went to one) you probably want to be in the 3.6+ range and really use the MCAT as your equalizer.
 
NEW QUESTION OMG WHICH IS BETTER? AND HOW MUCH?

3.56BCPM vs 3.57BCPM?

What about 34 MCAT vs 35?
Pleze halp!
 
skinMD said:
unfortunately the mod did take notice, kept all the troll posts and deleted my (very witty) response to a post where someone attacked me (above)....thank you to those who helped try to put this troll in his place....here is a very watered down version of my response to shindotp's above comment (no more george bush giving anyone the finger 🙁):
Click to expand...


I didn't attack you. I just stated facts (like I'm doing now) - you got a 3.5 BCPM GPA. Obviously, that's not that great at all (especially from your Ivy GPA inflated institution, unless you go to Princeton), but I never said there was anything horribly wrong with it.

Wow, you're making a really big deal about this. It's pretty amusing :laugh:

Did you really need 3 more posts directed at me defending your little accomplishments (you're right, your school is ranked.. Good job getting into one of the lowest ranked med schools in the country - one that I wouldn't even want to apply to).

In my opinion, you'll become one of those stereotypically egotistical doctors going around acting like your MD automatically makes you superior to everyone else you work with.

Sorry to break it to you, but you're not as godlike as you think (even though you'd like to think so). 😉
 
shindotp said:
I didn't attack you. I just stated facts (like I'm doing now) - you got a 3.5 BCPM GPA. Obviously, that's not that great at all (especially from your Ivy GPA inflated institution, unless you go to Princeton), but I never said there was anything horribly wrong with it.

Wow, you're making a really big deal about this. It's pretty amusing :laugh:

Did you really need 3 more posts directed at me defending your little accomplishments (you're right, your school is ranked.. Good job getting into one of the lowest ranked med schools in the country - one that I wouldn't even want to apply to).

In my opinion, you'll become one of those stereotypically egotistical doctors going around acting like your MD automatically makes you superior to everyone else you work with.

Sorry to break it to you, but you're not as godlike as you think (even though you'd like to think so). 😉
Click to expand...

Well his BCPM is probably going to be a bit lower than you might otherwise expect because of the class he likely failed due to the institutional action he was talking about before.

Not all Ivies are that grade inflated either, Penn is pretty difficult as well, and so is Cornell.
 
shindotp said:
I didn't attack you. I just stated facts (like I'm doing now) - you got a 3.5 BCPM GPA. Obviously, that's not that great at all (especially from your Ivy GPA inflated institution, unless you go to Princeton), but I never said there was anything horribly wrong with it.

Wow, you're making a really big deal about this. It's pretty amusing :laugh:

Did you really need 3 more posts directed at me defending your little accomplishments (you're right, your school is ranked.. Good job getting into one of the lowest ranked med schools in the country - one that I wouldn't even want to apply to).

In my opinion, you'll become one of those stereotypically egotistical doctors going around acting like your MD automatically makes you superior to everyone else you work with.

Sorry to break it to you, but you're not as godlike as you think (even though you'd like to think so). 😉
Click to expand...

each of my 3 posts were responding to your 3 posts

it seems like it is you and not i who cares so much about prestige, being "better" than those around you and (unsuccessfully) trying to rub it in their faces

go back to studying for general chemistry and try to get out and have some fun during college rather than hanging around SDN trying to piss off people who are 6 years older than you....for all you know you might be weeded out next year

drizzt3117 said:
Well his BCPM is probably going to be a bit lower than you might otherwise expect because of the class he likely failed due to the institutional action he was talking about before.
Click to expand...

i didn't fail and it wasn't a BCPM class ....my BCPM is lower because i had to take more and harder physics classes and more math classes because of engineering...and i (ironically) suck at physics...the physics classes were basically 3 automatic Bs
 
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