3 year GMO payback then civilian residency?

[MMADoc]

Hello all,

I have a general scenario I wanted to run by forum members and see what their thoughts were. I am currently in the process of applying for a 3 year Army HPSP. I am about 80% sure I will want to specialize in EM. I am currently a below average M1 medical student and I know Army EM residencies are competitive. I was thinking about doing a PGY1 then heading off to GMO land to complete my 3 year payback and then do a civilian EM residency afterward. I have a desire to serve my country (for a bit at least) and if I project I will have about $275-300K in loans if I pay for my medical school education myself. I am thinking really hard about if I should take the HPSP or not and I would appreciate any advice.

1) Have you heard of anyone doing this? Is it difficult to secure a civilian residency EM spot? Would you get credit for the experience as a GMO or the previous PGY1 year served?

2) I know for the Army they have either 3-4 EM residency locations you can apply for...how does applying for a TY or PGY1 go about when you want to go straight into GMO after?

3) How hard would it be to separate from the Army after paying back your 3 years as a GMO (i.e. is there a chance that some random nonsense will prevent me from being discharged)?

4) How difficult would it to be to get a GMO tour base location overseas (Germany, S. Korea, etc)?

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[colbgw02]

1. It's pretty common. You'll get no credit for your GMO time, except that you will stand out from the other applicants. Many, but not all, PDs would view it as a bonus. Whether or not your internship counts depends on what kind you complete (probably TY in Army) and how specific your specialty's rules are about internship rotations. Don't be surprised if you end up repeating all or some of your internship.

2. It's been awhile, but I think you just list TY internships on your match wish list. With the exception of GS, all other Army internships should be tied to residency slots. Taking one of those when you don't intend to continue immediately to PGY-2 hoses a fellow applicant and possibly the program.

3. Not hard. Short of a land war in east Asia, we're not going to stop-loss people en masse. Just keep in mind that any commission comes with a minimum 8-year obligation. You may end up having to spend a few years in the IRR, which isn't typically a big deal, but still something you should be aware of.

4. Germany, or anywhere in Europe, would be difficult, but certainly not impossible. Korea is usually easy to get, but keep in mind that many of those assignments are hardship tours. You would not be able to bring any family with you (and have the Army pay for it).

 

[playaodamonth]

I did three and out in the Navy. Now most of my med school friends are attendings making the big money or finishing fellowship. The plan really set me back.

Did this hurt you in getting a good civ residency? Or did PDs look at your military experience favorably?

 

[cautionmaster]

Did this hurt you in getting a good civ residency? Or did PDs look at your military experience favorably?

No. And yes.

 

[MMADoc]

All,
Just talked to my Army HPSP recruiter and he dropped some knowledge on me that seemed contradictory to what I have been hearing otherwise. Can I get a fact check?

1) The Army does not have GMOs.
2) You apply for 6 residency spots for the military match (instead of 5)
3) You also apply for the civilian match while applying for the Army match. If you get selected into a civilian specialty that the Army needs more of (e.g. EM) and you do not get accepted into a similar Army residency spot, you can apply to your Army PD that you are accepted into for a deferment into the civilian residency.
4) You have to select an Army residency program for all of the 6 military match spots even if there are less than six locations for specialty of your choice. So you can't just pick a FGYME spot to fill in the blank residency spots that are not the specialty of your choice and then do a civilian residency after you serve your commitment.
5) Your payback time only starts when you are a practicing physician that has completed a residency (i.e. going with that whole, there is no Army GMO and you are unable to do a FYGME and then serve your commitment).

Is there anywhere I can get straight answers concerning the Army residency match and their policies? The Army GME maybe? Thanks for the clarification, just trying to figure things out before I sign on the dotted line.

 

[DoctaJMa]

All,
Just talked to my Army HPSP recruiter and he dropped some knowledge on me that seemed contradictory to what I have been hearing otherwise. Can I get a fact check?

1) The Army does not have GMOs.
2) You apply for 6 residency spots for the military match (instead of 5)
3) You also apply for the civilian match while applying for the Army match. If you get selected into a civilian specialty that the Army needs more of (e.g. EM) and you do not get accepted into a similar Army residency spot, you can apply to your Army PD that you are accepted into for a deferment into the civilian residency.
4) You have to select an Army residency program for all of the 6 military match spots even if there are less than six locations for specialty of your choice. So you can't just pick a FGYME spot to fill in the blank residency spots that are not the specialty of your choice and then do a civilian residency after you serve your commitment.
5) Your payback time only starts when you are a practicing physician that has completed a residency (i.e. going with that whole, there is no Army GMO and you are unable to do a FYGME and then serve your commitment).

Is there anywhere I can get straight answers concerning the Army residency match and their policies? The Army GME maybe? Thanks for the clarification, just trying to figure things out before I sign on the dotted line.

1) Your recruiter is wrong. The Army has GMOs. I will be headed that way after my Transitional Year this coming year.
2) You apply for a MINIMUM of 5 locations...but you can select more if the specialty you want has more than 5 sites OR if you are ranking Transitional Years.
3) Wrong again. You should probably apply to civilian programs just incase you get a deferrement but the likelihood of that happening is VERY low but it is still a possibility. The way the process works is you do your auditions and apply military match which happens mid Dec. IF you do not match into ur specialty then you will be automatically placed in a Transitional Year spot OR given a civilian deferment (although unlikely...in other words I would not plan on getting one, but I also wouldnt exclude it as a possibility).
4) See answer to #2.
5) Wrong (kinda). If you are able to go straight through for residency...meaning you graduate med school and get into a residency then the recruiter would be correct on payback. HOWEVER, if you get a transitional year and then do a GMO or FS tour, the GMO/FS tour time counts towards your payback. SO, in all actuality you can do a 4 year GMO/FS tour (after a one year Transitional Year) and get out and head to a civilian residency.

Dude seriously is this an AMEDD recruiter that gave you the info? Cause if a recruiter is THIS misguided someone needs to say something cause thats ALOT of bad info. I have had recruiters tell me some contradictory info but the stuff ur recruiter was wrong on is not only significant but some of the most important information to know to make a decision on whether to join.

 

[dwb8p]

Agree with JMa. Check out this link for more official info:

https://education.mods.army.mil/MedEd/FYGME/Docs/LOI_All.asp?CalledFromMenu=1#1

 

[colbgw02]

All,
Just talked to my Army HPSP recruiter and he dropped some knowledge on me that seemed contradictory to what I have been hearing otherwise. Can I get a fact check?

1) The Army does not have GMOs.
2) You apply for 6 residency spots for the military match (instead of 5)
3) You also apply for the civilian match while applying for the Army match. If you get selected into a civilian specialty that the Army needs more of (e.g. EM) and you do not get accepted into a similar Army residency spot, you can apply to your Army PD that you are accepted into for a deferment into the civilian residency.
4) You have to select an Army residency program for all of the 6 military match spots even if there are less than six locations for specialty of your choice. So you can’t just pick a FGYME spot to fill in the blank residency spots that are not the specialty of your choice and then do a civilian residency after you serve your commitment.
5) Your payback time only starts when you are a practicing physician that has completed a residency (i.e. going with that whole, there is no Army GMO and you are unable to do a FYGME and then serve your commitment).

Is there anywhere I can get straight answers concerning the Army residency match and their policies? The Army GME maybe? Thanks for the clarification, just trying to figure things out before I sign on the dotted line.

As already indicated, there is so much wrong with this that it makes me want to go undercover to a HP Army recruiter, then see how they react when I call them on all of their BS.

It's also another example of how these recruiters are, at best, wildly ignorant and misinformed or, at worst, intentionally dishonest.

 

[Aegis]

Wow. That recruiter is terrifying!! I agree with colbgw02, it would be pretty amusing to go undercover.

So I'm an AF GMO right now, there are some differences between the Army and AF, but I think the general mechanics are the same in how things work. I'm in my third year applying to residency next year. I considered ER for a long time, but decided on PM&R after it was all said and done, but I did do some research into EM civilian residencies. I owe four years, my plan is to pay it all off, separate, and do a civ residency just like you're proposing.

1) Your time as a GMO will make you more desirable to an EM PD, I've talked to several PD's regarding this. Each specialty is a little different in this sense, ER tends to favor GMO experience.
2) This has basically already been said, the way it works is you apply for an intern year only, be in prelim or transitional, for a GMO tour I recommend transitionals. In the AF you have to apply to at least one military program. When I originally went through it I thought I would just stay at my civilian med school for my intern year, I changed my mind the last minute and did a military internship. I was really glad I did, my general knowledge of the system gave me a strong advantage coming into my GMO vs. other GMOs who were basically seeing military medicine for the first time when they arrived at their assignment.
3) At least in the Air Force if you can pass a flight physical you are going to be a flight surgeon if you want to do a GMO, normal GMOs are reserved for those who can't be flight docs, and you wouldn't want to do it anyway.
4) I've echoed this before in these forums, everyone has different circumstances for why they do GMO, and everyone has different priorities. Some hate it, some love it. I wouldn't trade it for anything, and I'm glad I did it. Sure, my friends are all landing attending spots and making the big bucks, but I have four deployments under my belt, I've been places and done things they will never get to say they did, and when the dust settles I'll go back to the normal world and live out my normal 20 year career anyway, I'll just be a few years older with more stories to tell.