3rd year problems

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MedicalStudent5

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Did you know people have been peddling that kind of bull**** scaremongering for past 10 years?

Why is it going to happen now.

This sounds like a huge liability for the hospital, especially since so many crucial decisions are made based on how a radiologist reads a study. A subtle finding can determine whether a patient receives surgery, is treated with serious medications, etc. Because of this, I doubt that radiologists will be competing with their Indian counterparts any time soon.

Ah, technology is getting better. Part of the problem is how fast you can move large amounts of data across the world (i.e bandwidth). As technology improves, it will be much easier for someone in India to get 1000 scans in full within minutes. Now, you're correct that the legal environment will not allow them to be the only ones looking at the scans... but it is very possible that they can look at scans overnight for pennies on the dollar, then the other radiologists can sign off on them in the morning.

This is no different from Anesthesia having tons of nurses to provide for basic anesthesia cases. Will MDs still be needed? Absolutely. Will there need be as great? No, it will be diminished by some amount. How much is the question that everyone is guessing. But to think that the demand for radiologists will not change with the technological environment is delusion.

It's not competition as much as it is filling a niche that eases the costs of radiology services in America. I think the nurse anesthetist analogy fits here.

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link2swim06

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Ah, technology is getting better. Part of the problem is how fast you can move large amounts of data across the world (i.e bandwidth). As technology improves, it will be much easier for someone in India to get 1000 scans in full within minutes. Now, you're correct that the legal environment will not allow them to be the only ones looking at the scans... but it is very possible that they can look at scans overnight for pennies on the dollar, then the other radiologists can sign off on them in the morning.

This is no different from Anesthesia having tons of nurses to provide for basic anesthesia cases. Will MDs still be needed? Absolutely. Will there need be as great? No, it will be diminished by some amount. How much is the question that everyone is guessing. But to think that the demand for radiologists will not change with the technological environment is delusion.

It's not competition as much as it is filling a niche that eases the costs of radiology services in America. I think the nurse anesthetist analogy fits here.

This can be applied to almost every area of medicine. PA and NPs will be seeing increasing numbers of patients with MD supervision to reduce cost.

The good news is patient visits will nearly double in the next 20 years due to obesity and baby boomers. Currently per AAMC we have a shortage of approx 13,700 physicians, by 2025 that will be a shortage of nearly130,600 physicians. I'd bet serious money there will be almost no unemployment in the next couple decades for anyone with a MD.
 

calvnandhobbs68

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I would be very careful about Radiology though. With time a lot of American radiologists are going to be struggling to find a job. The whole high tech world is changing everything including the way we will be practicing medicine. Why would a hospital pay a radiologist in the US $350,000 / year when they can simply hire a radiologist in India for $25,000 and obtain almost the same results. I know it sounds unethical but we know how companies are trying to profit every day.

People who say this don't understand that it's just ridiculous because the radiologists are the bottleneck. What radiologist is gonna say "Sure I'll sign off on twice as many reads per hour putting my medical license on the line for 100K less a year! Sign me up!" The job market isn't that bad fellas.
 
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MedicalStudent5

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This can be applied to almost every area of medicine. PA and NPs will be seeing increasing numbers of patients with MD supervision to reduce cost.

The good news is patient visits will nearly double in the next 20 years due to obesity and baby boomers. Currently per AAMC we have a shortage of approx 13,700 physicians, by 2025 that will be a shortage of nearly130,600 physicians. I'd bet serious money there will be almost no unemployment in the next couple decades for anyone with a MD.

Yup.

I agree with all you've said. I don't think we will have ANY trouble finding jobs. I think the pay will obviously change bc the gov't doesn't want to pay $ for healthcare and will cut as many costs as possible (medicare + medicaid pay HUGE sums of doctors salaries).
 

MedicalStudent5

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People who say this don't understand that it's just ridiculous because the radiologists are the bottleneck. What radiologist is gonna say "Sure I'll sign off on twice as many reads per hour putting my medical license on the line for 100K less a year! Sign me up!" The job market isn't that bad fellas.

The issue is, it only takes 10-20% of people who are willing to do it to change the entire market, and those people could be paid MORE not less by supervising multiple international radiologists (look at primary care with PAs or an Anesthesia shop with 2 MD and 8 nurses, it's increased income, not less). Here's an oversimplified example:

Radiologist signs off on 4x the reads because he spends 1/4 the time. His salary is actually INCREASED, because he + the internationals are doing 4 times the work but since overseas are working for 20-30% of the normal fees, the hospital walks away paying radiologist in America 120% (of his normal salary), and 4 India radiologists 20% (x4) for a total of 200%... yet the work of 4 radiologist is being done. So in the end, you get the work of 4 people with 1 supervisor but pay only half of what 4 full time American radiologists would get paid.

Like the above poster said, almost everyone is going to be subjected to this, not only radiology. But it's already happening in anesthesia, it will be happening faster than you all think in Radiology. And everyone else is to follow. Whatever costs the least amount will be the preferred method, not what works the best.

My example is actually already happening at some hospitals. I read it in the rads forum, it's not science fiction.
 

evilbooyaa

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The radiology example is already happening to some extent. I have a relative who signs off on overnight images that are read in India (US Night = India daytime). Especially X-rays and CT scans primarily. He said more intricate scans aren't sent and are read in-house by a resident.
 

link2swim06

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The radiology example is already happening to some extent. I have a relative who signs off on overnight images that are read in India (US Night = India daytime). Especially X-rays and CT scans primarily. He said more intricate scans aren't sent and are read in-house by a resident.

A US trained radiologist living in India, or an Indian radiologist that has never stepped foot on US soil?
 

siliso

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Human life is freaking hard. Terrible things happen. You are honored to be there in a way that few people are invited to be. Sometimes all you can do is be there with the suffering, which is a brutal job but can bring peace and comfort to others. Sometimes it turns out that what is gross and horrifying to you is still someone's life and brings joy to them and their family despite the pain or sadness.

I'm replying in sincerity and empathy, which I know doesn't fit with the general meme-driven tenor here, but you have an opportunity to reflect and grow if you want it, and especially if your feelings are based in identification and horror at suffering rather than cynicism and a derisive kind of disgust. You can acknowledge your feelings and seek spiritual or philosophical or psychological support as you adjust to your new role in daily contact with the sick and suffering, because it is hard. It brings up into focus your own vulnerability and mortality and that of your loved ones. It's not easy work, and it's harder when you are early on and don't have a lot of technical knowledge and skill that you could bring to bear in hopes of changing the outcome, but you could do it if you are motivated. Or you can seek another path (non clinical, low patient contact) if you can't ever see yourself growing into it and finding it rewarding.
 

link2swim06

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Lol, not that one. And how many US trained radiologist do you think move to set up a practice in India?

If someone's entire family lived in India and they just came over here for rads residency they might go back, especially if they can read US films and make good money.


I know it isn't uncommon for a radiologist trained in the US to live in other parts of the world and do teleradiology.
 

peteB

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I can't imagine a US trained radiologist would ever want to work in India.

So probably an Indian radiologist that hasn't stepped foot on US soil.

Why would you assume a US trained radiologist would never work in India? I know a US trained doctor who went to work in India- he's said it's awesome, with US training you can easily get a very well paid job at really nice hospitals for the wealthy- much nicer than the majority of hospitals in the US. There are even patients flying in from the US and Europe to have their operations done there. Plus, people in India really respect doctors. They stand up when a doctor enters the room, and are always deferential to a doctor. It's a far cry from the treatment doctors get here, from what I've seen.The hospital even pays for his home and a car with driver.

Not to mention the patients pay you in cash ( no insurances ) and you don't have to worry about malpractice suits.

It's a pretty good deal if you ask me.
 

MedicalStudent5

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Why would you assume a US trained radiologist would never work in India? I know a US trained doctor who went to work in India- he's said it's awesome, with US training you can easily get a very well paid job at really nice hospitals for the wealthy- much nicer than the majority of hospitals in the US. There are even patients flying in from the US and Europe to have their operations done there. Plus, people in India really respect doctors. They stand up when a doctor enters the room, and are always deferential to a doctor. It's a far cry from the treatment doctors get here, from what I've seen.The hospital even pays for his home and a car with driver.

Not to mention the patients pay you in cash ( no insurances ) and you don't have to worry about malpractice suits.

It's a pretty good deal if you ask me.

I know a guy who won a 100 million dollar lottery... anyone else want to play the n=1 game with us?
 
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IslandStyle808

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Why would you assume a US trained radiologist would never work in India? I know a US trained doctor who went to work in India- he's said it's awesome, with US training you can easily get a very well paid job at really nice hospitals for the wealthy- much nicer than the majority of hospitals in the US. There are even patients flying in from the US and Europe to have their operations done there. Plus, people in India really respect doctors. They stand up when a doctor enters the room, and are always deferential to a doctor. It's a far cry from the treatment doctors get here, from what I've seen.The hospital even pays for his home and a car with driver.

Not to mention the patients pay you in cash ( no insurances ) and you don't have to worry about malpractice suits.

It's a pretty good deal if you ask me.

It maybe good for the doctors but medical care in India is for the rich. Either you pay the doctor/hospital or you don't get treatment (this is true for a lot of hospitals). It is nearly impossible to set up insurance because of the amount of poor in the country (hence the reason for hospitals to be paid cash). As for malpractice, you have a lot of poor people who can't afford a lawyer and a legal system that is broken. These are some of the reasons why there are so few lawsuits (in general).

They are revered because they are rich and hold a doctorate (so the people think they are knowledgeable). This is why a lot of parents push their children into medicine. Don't get me wrong there are some doctors that truly do care about the people they treat. However, I really don't believe it is the majority that care but some (half of them only care about their pay check and showing off how rich they are). I am Indian so trust me on this aspect.

This untouchable feeling that doctors have over there makes them lazy. For example, my uncle goes to see the doctor and only tells him he feels dizzy. The doctor says he has a head cold just based on one symptom "vertigo." A good doctor would gain more clues and have differential diagnoses. I too get sick there often and I get an incorrect diagnosis from multiple physicians (maybe 1 out of 4 times they get it right).

It is a good deal as a doctor but as a patient I would rather be treated here in the U.S. over India.
 

DrBowtie

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Lots of misinformation/people know a lot of illegal activity going on apparently. Hit that whistleblower money up.

If the US ever allows services to be billed for and completed by non US licensed physicians, every field is toast. There is zero barrier to entry now for a flood of FMGs in all fields.
 

peteB

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Don't get me wrong there are some doctors that truly do care about the people they treat. However, I really don't believe it is the majority that care but some (half of them only care about their pay check and showing off how rich they are). I am Indian so trust me on this aspect.

I am not Indian so I will take your word for this, but I believe that this is true in the US as well. I know most of the people in my class very well, and I can tell you that the majority are in it for money, job security, and prestige, not because they care about patients at all. Even though those have all been steadily declining, there is still quite a lot when compared to other professions. The rest are probably heavily influenced by that as well, even though they won't admit it. I wonder how many people would still be interested in medicine if it paid the national average (somewhere around 50k, I think)?
 

MedicalStudent5

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Hey at least I have n of 1. You have n of 0.

Not true. It's a story, the individual above even mentioned it:

The radiology example is already happening to some extent. I have a relative who signs off on overnight images that are read in India (US Night = India daytime). Especially X-rays and CT scans primarily. He said more intricate scans aren't sent and are read in-house by a resident.


Lots of misinformation/people know a lot of illegal activity going on apparently. Hit that whistleblower money up.

If the US ever allows services to be billed for and completed by non US licensed physicians, every field is toast. There is zero barrier to entry now for a flood of FMGs in all fields.

The example I spoke of is just asking the question, "how far will what is already happening go?"

It's the same question the people in Anesthesia are wondering. Some states are thinking about letting nurses prescribe pain medications... again, a question of how much and how far nurses (or signing off on international telerads) will go.

As the poster above mentioned, the whole field of medicine can actually be affected by similar factors (the blurring lines of boarded docs and midlevels/whoever doing the same thing... dermatology --> DNP doing botox, Ophtho ---> ODs doing minor surgical procedures.

The only thing I'm pointing out is that the govt is cheap and doesn't really care about quality, they will do whatever is the cheapest delivery of healthcare to the nation. So we can say boarded physicians are much better than __________ but the question is, will the govt pay for it?

Think about this, if Obama is re-elected and Medicare doesn't change, it will go bankrupt likely within however many years (10?). Do you think when the govt has the choice between eliminating medicare completely or paying doctors much less and letting midlevels/international telerads do much more, what will happen? The reality is that the money is running out and huge changes will need to be made, and the govt doesn't care about doctors salaries at all.

The mistake most people are making in their reasoning is believing that the govt will pay for the best or most qualified care... they will not. They will take the cheapest.

edit: read this in an article today:

From Medscape Business of Medicine

How Much Should Doctors Really Make?

Another view is that the US free market more or less accurately determines how much money it takes to attract and keep talented people in medicine. In a country where the top 1% have an average pretax income of $380,000, not counting capital gains,[1] while the median household income is about $50,000, these observers say that it takes the promise of high and secure earnings to convince the brightest young people to choose a career in medicine rather than the potentially more lucrative fields of finance, management, law, and lobbying.

....

Uwe Reinhardt, PhD, a Princeton University economics professor, has suggested that doctors should earn enough after expenses to place them at or above the 95th percentile of US income -- $200,000 in 2011, according to the Tax Policy Center's breakdown of U.S. income distribution. Indeed, the median primary care physician compensation of $212,840 last year met that standard, while the median specialist physician compensation level of $384,467 placed specialists above the 98th percentile, according to the latest Medical Group Management Association (MGMA) physician compensation survey.
...

It's no secret that different types of US physicians make hugely different amounts of money. According to the latest MGMA physician compensation survey, in 2011, geneticists earned median pay of $142,234, geriatricians $195,000, general pediatricians $203,948, family physicians doing obstetrical work $204,411, general internists $215,689, invasive cardiologists $472,446, invasive radiologists $486,764, and general orthopedic surgeons $520,119. Certain subspecialists earned substantially more, with neurologic surgeons earning $704,170 and cardiovascular-pediatric surgeons making $725,704.

Physicians owning ancillary facilities such as diagnostic imaging may actually earn more than the MGMA figures because what they reported may not have included ancillary revenues, according to the MGMA.

Looking at those numbers, "it's hard for any [US] doctor to complain about income," says Glen Stream, MD, president of the American Academy of Family Physicians. "But our grave concern is the disparity between primary care and subspecialty income. That's a huge driver in medical students choosing specialties other than primary care. Attracting more people to primary care would make our healthcare system higher-functioning and more cost-effective."

Still, even US primary care physicians generally receive higher fees and higher incomes than their counterparts in other advanced countries, while US orthopedic surgeons and other specialists earn far more than their international colleagues, according to the aforementioned Health Affairs article.[2] Adjusted for purchasing-power parity, US primary care physicians in 2008 earned an average of $186,582 before taxes and after expenses, compared with $159,532 in the United Kingdom, $131,809 in Germany, and $95,585 in France. US orthopedic surgeons earned $442,450, compared with $324,138 in the United Kingdom, $202,771 in Germany, and $154,380 in France.

Entire article is pretty interesting, but these were some highlights.
 
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peteB

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Think about this, if Obama is re-elected and Medicare doesn't change, it will go bankrupt likely within however many years (10?). Do you think when the govt has the choice between eliminating medicare completely or paying doctors much less and letting midlevels/international telerads do much more, what will happen? The reality is that the money is running out and huge changes will need to be made, and the govt doesn't care about doctors salaries at all.

The mistake most people are making in their reasoning is believing that the govt will pay for the best or most qualified care... they will not. They will take the cheapest.

This is so true. The government not only doesn't care about doctors' salaries, but also knows that doctors can't do much when their salaries get cut. Doctors can't strike, and most can't choose not to accept Medicare patients because they will lose a huge amount of money, as little as it is. Also, it seems that most private insurances follow Medicare pretty closely in terms of compensation to physicians. In addition, the general public seems to think doctors are extremely overpaid and would not be in support of any legislation to protect doctors' salaries against more affordable healthcare for themselves.
 

MedicalStudent5

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This is so true. The government not only doesn't care about doctors' salaries, but also knows that doctors can't do much when their salaries get cut. Doctors can't strike, and most can't choose not to accept Medicare patients because they will lose a huge amount of money, as little as it is. Also, it seems that most private insurances follow Medicare pretty closely in terms of compensation to physicians. In addition, the general public seems to think doctors are extremely overpaid and would not be in support of any legislation to protect doctors' salaries against more affordable healthcare for themselves.

yeah.

I'm for us. I mean, I for doctors. I understand now that we work our assess off and almost put life on hold (completely change our lives) for our entire training. I actually think this is one of the craziest jobs around (in terms of demands). I'm just calling things how I see them. Most can't and will never realize what goes into turning a premed into a competent attending. It's a whole hell of a lot.
 

mzarrowsmith

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I've always known that I was uncomfortable in medical settings, especially around blood and needles, but I felt that I should just "man up" and get over it.

Why did you apply to medical school in the first place? Did you shadow physicians before applying?

"I hate guns, discipline, and camouflage...so I decided to join the Marines!"
 

peteB

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Why did you apply to medical school in the first place? Did you shadow physicians before applying?

"I hate guns, discipline, and camouflage...so I decided to join the Marines!"

Honestly, I got talked into it by my family. I have a pretty doctor-heavy family. They've been "conditioning" me for it since I was like 6. My dad's a doctor and I've spent time at his clinic. It honestly didn't seem that bad to me at the time. I guess I wasn't really thinking about it, just going on autopilot. How could they all be wrong? I knew there were issues I had with blood and guts, but I figured everybody had those and it was just one of those things I'd have to get over as part of training to be a doctor.
 

link2swim06

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This is so true. The government not only doesn't care about doctors' salaries, but also knows that doctors can't do much when their salaries get cut. Doctors can't strike, and most can't choose not to accept Medicare patients because they will lose a huge amount of money, as little as it is. Also, it seems that most private insurances follow Medicare pretty closely in terms of compensation to physicians. In addition, the general public seems to think doctors are extremely overpaid and would not be in support of any legislation to protect doctors' salaries against more affordable healthcare for themselves.

One point I'd like to add. The ONLY time in the past 10 years I can remember the general public's opinion directly influenced legislation was the SOPA/PIPA bill.

The other thousands of laws in the past decade were mainly influenced by lobbyists. Its a well documented fact that most of the public is oblivious to the day to day legislation. Doctors have the AMA and individual specialties have their own smaller lobbyists. There is a good reason why physicians aren't paid pennies.
 

peteB

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One point I'd like to add. The ONLY time in the past 10 years I can remember the general public's opinion directly influenced legislation was the SOPA/PIPA bill.

The other thousands of laws in the past decade were mainly influenced by lobbyists. Its a well documented fact that most of the public is oblivious to the day to day legislation. Doctors have the AMA and individual specialties have their own smaller lobbyists. There is a good reason why physicians aren't paid pennies.

OK, that's true. But when it comes to voting in politicians like Obama who is responsible for a lot of huge changes to healthcare, the people are the ones deciding. Also, lets keep in mind that the nursing field has a powerful lobby as well which is going to be on the side of increasing the utilization of NPs and other nurses instead of MDs by increasing their practice rights.Also, insurance companies do a lot of lobbying and their main concern is their own costs, not maintaining the doctors' salaries. The AMA is good and all, but they are going to face a lot of competition in the future from these other groups.

Physicians aren't paid pennies yet, but you must agree that physician compensation has decreased dramatically over the years, which shows that things are not working in favor of the physicians anymore.
 

link2swim06

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OK, that's true. But when it comes to voting in politicians like Obama who is responsible for a lot of huge changes to healthcare, the people are the ones deciding. Also, lets keep in mind that the nursing field has a powerful lobby as well which is going to be on the side of increasing the utilization of NPs and other nurses instead of MDs by increasing their practice rights.Also, insurance companies do a lot of lobbying and their main concern is their own costs, not maintaining the doctors' salaries. The AMA is good and all, but they are going to face a lot of competition in the future from these other groups.

Physicians aren't paid pennies yet, but you must agree that physician compensation has decreased dramatically over the years, which shows that things are not working in favor of the physicians anymore.

Just high paying specialties have been cut. Primary care has seen raises every year. Granted nobody is outpacing inflation, but neither are 80% jobs in the US economy.
 

mzarrowsmith

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Honestly, I got talked into it by my family. I have a pretty doctor-heavy family. They've been "conditioning" me for it since I was like 6. My dad's a doctor and I've spent time at his clinic. It honestly didn't seem that bad to me at the time. I guess I wasn't really thinking about it, just going on autopilot. How could they all be wrong? I knew there were issues I had with blood and guts, but I figured everybody had those and it was just one of those things I'd have to get over as part of training to be a doctor.

Sorry to hear. Since they'd likely be pissed if you quit, I'd say finish the MD. If you can't stand the thought of a residency, consulting firms like McKinsey and Bain definitely recruit non-residency trained MDs if you like PowerPoint presentations and speaking Bullsh*tese. Good luck.

http://www.mckinsey.com/careers/your_background/advanced_professional_degrees/medical_degree_faq
 

BlueElmo

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On a side note, I started from OP's original post, and read through the entire thread. It's pretty interesting to see how OP's original question has evolved into different topics through 77 posts. Just wanted to add that.
Okay carry on.
 

Valadi

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Medical geneticist or rads.

The "go into industry" thing is easy to say but not to do. I talked with the medical affairs director at KCI, and a board member from LifeCell and invariably they say they can't think of anyone who they hired right out of medical school and said they don't even recruit at that level.

Put another way, getting your dream industry job directly out of medical school is probably more difficult than getting a derm residency. A few years after practice, however, is a different story.
 

evilbooyaa

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Why would you assume a US trained radiologist would never work in India? I know a US trained doctor who went to work in India- he's said it's awesome, with US training you can easily get a very well paid job at really nice hospitals for the wealthy- much nicer than the majority of hospitals in the US. There are even patients flying in from the US and Europe to have their operations done there. Plus, people in India really respect doctors. They stand up when a doctor enters the room, and are always deferential to a doctor. It's a far cry from the treatment doctors get here, from what I've seen.The hospital even pays for his home and a car with driver.

Not to mention the patients pay you in cash ( no insurances ) and you don't have to worry about malpractice suits.

It's a pretty good deal if you ask me.

Because at the end of the day, it's still living in India. I'm Indian. My uncle is very well to do in the biggest city in the country. He gets all the new tech toys before I do there. I wouldn't trade my life in the US for his any day of the week.

Who cares if you're completely rich out the ass if when you go outside you have to see all the beggars and homeless on the street? I would never, EVER, trade the quality of life that we all take for granted here in the US to go back to India.

Some people may disagree with that outlook, but as someone who was born in India, raised in the US, and has since gone back and visited, it is flabbergasting to me to think that people would willingly go back to India (especially as a trained radiologist, a job that is guaranteed some serious cash in the US).
 

VenusinFurs

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I used to be freaked out by blood. I used to be freaked out by gyn procedures. I quickly got over these things as I learned more about what was going on.
 

peteB

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Who cares if you're completely rich out the ass if when you go outside you have to see all the beggars and homeless on the street?
.

I don't think this is unique to India. There are terribly poor parts of the U.S. too. My school happens to be close to a very poor area where you'll see plenty of homeless and beggars. You'll also see many dilapidated buildings when you go outside. It's not a very pretty sight. Those kinds of things are reality everywhere in the world, unless you isolate yourself in a rich neighborhood.

You seem to be disgusted by the sight of the poor and the homeless, but I'm not. They're people too. The mere sight of them doesn't make me want to run away to another country and never come back. It also doesn't affect the quality of my life in any way. I still live in a nice house and have a nice car and everything I need, and I'm sure your uncle does too.

Anyway, with the number of millionaires that India is generating at an amazing rate, I'm sure there are rich communities you can live in and escape the sights of poverty that you dislike, just like you can here in the U.S.
 
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mzarrowsmith

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Who cares if you're completely rich out the ass if when you go outside you have to see all the beggars and homeless on the street? I would never, EVER, trade the quality of life that we all take for granted here in the US to go back to India.

This quote is amazing because it's so easy to visualize evilbooyaa's smug look of disdain as he steps over some mud-caked, mentally ill old Dalit man who lives in a pile of trash just steps away from Bangalore's newest Louis Vuitton store.
 

peteB

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This quote is amazing because it's so easy to visualize evilbooyaa's smug look of disdain as he steps over some mud-caked, mentally ill old Dalit man who lives in a pile of trash just steps away from Bangalore's newest Louis Vuitton store.

This is exactly what I was imagining but I couldn't put it in words :thumbup:. I wonder what would happen if he ended up having to do his residency in Detroit.
 

peteB

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I would never, EVER, trade the quality of life that we all take for granted here in the US to go back to India.

Does your quality of life include having a team of people working for you taking care of your every need? Because the doctor I know in India does. And it barely dents his paycheck. I'm sure the same applies to other countries as well. Labor is incredibly cheap in these places and as a doctor you can afford to hire quite a few people to do whatever you would normally have to do on your own in the US.
 

peteB

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It is. Those people were the ones who got interviews. They probably had good research/LORs/etc. Look at the median score.

That's what I was thinking. I'm sure the other things on their applications are unbelievably good, which is why they got in with poor scores. I don't have anything outstanding so I probably wouldn't get an interview. Just looking at the numbers alone is misleading.
 

RoadRunner17

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Primary Care won't be that bad. The vast majority of patients you see will be relatively healthy, and if there are serious problems that you can't handle, you send them to the ER/admit to another service.
 

calvnandhobbs68

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Primary Care won't be that bad. The vast majority of patients you see will be relatively healthy, and if there are serious problems that you can't handle, you send them to the ER/admit to another service.


If you call obese diabetics healthy then yes the majority of your patients will be healthy.
 

RoadRunner17

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If you call obese diabetics healthy then yes the majority of your patients will be healthy.

Compared to the patients in the hospital, yes, outpatient family medicine/internal medicine/pediatrics as a whole tend to be healthier when you see them in clinic. Also, he doesn't like the hospital environment- likely he's referring to the inpatient environment. Refer to the original post for the context.

I really don't like being in the hospital or around sick people- it scares me. The entire environment gives me the creeps. Looking at disfigured and diseased people freaks me out.
 

peteB

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Compared to the patients in the hospital, yes, outpatient family medicine/internal medicine/pediatrics as a whole tend to be healthier when you see them in clinic. Also, he doesn't like the hospital environment- likely he's referring to the inpatient environment. Refer to the original post for the context.

You're right, I would be better in the outpatient environment, the patients are much less "sick" than they are in the hospital.
 

gravitywave

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Compared to the patients in the hospital, yes, outpatient family medicine/internal medicine/pediatrics as a whole tend to be healthier when you see them in clinic. Also, he doesn't like the hospital environment- likely he's referring to the inpatient environment. Refer to the original post for the context.

this. inpatient and outpatient are so different they are practically like wholly different jobs. and fewer and fewer docs are doing both.

primary care docs should still be comfortable doing minor office-based procedures, though. plus you'd still have to get through at least three years of residency, much of which will be hospital-based.
 

peteB

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this. inpatient and outpatient are so different they are practically like wholly different jobs. and fewer and fewer docs are doing both.

primary care docs should still be comfortable doing minor office-based procedures, though. plus you'd still have to get through at least three years of residency, much of which will be hospital-based.

are all residency programs hospital based? are there any that aren't, or are more outpatient than others?
 

evilbooyaa

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I don't think this is unique to India. There are terribly poor parts of the U.S. too. My school happens to be close to a very poor area where you'll see plenty of homeless and beggars. You'll also see many dilapidated buildings when you go outside. It's not a very pretty sight. Those kinds of things are reality everywhere in the world, unless you isolate yourself in a rich neighborhood.

You seem to be disgusted by the sight of the poor and the homeless, but I'm not. They're people too. The mere sight of them doesn't make me want to run away to another country and never come back. It also doesn't affect the quality of my life in any way. I still live in a nice house and have a nice car and everything I need, and I'm sure your uncle does too.

Anyway, with the number of millionaires that India is generating at an amazing rate, I'm sure there are rich communities you can live in and escape the sights of poverty that you dislike, just like you can here in the U.S.

Please, please stop comparing anything you see in the US (especially relating to beggars) to India. Unless you have seen both sides of the spectrum, you have absolutely no idea. I've seen the homeless on the streets in big cities like Philadelphia and NYC. They are NOTHING compared to those I've seen in India.

I'm not disgusted by beggars. I feel bad for them, immensely. I've learned to steel myself, at least against the ones in the US, for the most part. Everytime I go to India I always break down and end up giving something to the beggars I meet. Unfortunately I only stay in a few different relatives' places, so whenever we go out, the same people from the previous day know me and know that I am willing to give to them.

Also, as for the nice car, good luck getting through the traffic in the bigger Indian cities without getting it nicked, dinged, scratched, and a complete mess. You'd be better off buying a civic.

Also, I am including the servants in the quality of life issue. Like I said, it's not necessarily a problem in the house. It's the environment. Are you willing to let the monsoon season shut down 1.5-3 months of your good quality of life every year as you trudge through 2 feet of water to your job every day?

PeteB, why don't you do this: Get a job in India as a US trained MD. Start a blog and go through your daily experiences and chronicle how awesome everything is. India sounds like such a swell place (for a US-trained radiologist to go there), so why don't you do it? I've told you that I've already seen that part of the world, and while visiting it is something I would still like to do regularly, I would rather not live and work there.

I've seen the inside of 2 urban/city hospitals, and the populace walking through the doors is extremely different from what you see in India.

Also, @mzarrowsmith - "Smug look of disdain"? Quit trolling. You've probably never had to deal with the emotion involved with a 14-16 year old carrying a 1-2 year old wearing dirty rags begging you for 5 rupees so that she can feed herself and her child at the local food stand. It's heart wrenching to see someone go through that.
 

peteB

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Please, please stop comparing anything you see in the US (especially relating to beggars) to India. Unless you have seen both sides of the spectrum, you have absolutely no idea. I've seen the homeless on the streets in big cities like Philadelphia and NYC. They are NOTHING compared to those I've seen in India.

Dude, I've seen even worse than India, I've been to the absolute poorest part of Uganda, which is a far far poorer country than India is. I don't think you can even imagine what I saw there. Don't tell me I have no idea, you don't even know anything about me.
 

peteB

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Are you willing to let the monsoon season shut down 1.5-3 months of your good quality of life every year as you trudge through 2 feet of water to your job every day?

Also, @mzarrowsmith - "Smug look of disdain"? Quit trolling. You've probably never had to deal with the emotion involved with a 14-16 year old carrying a 1-2 year old wearing dirty rags begging you for 5 rupees so that she can feed herself and her child at the local food stand. It's heart wrenching to see someone go through that.

I don't let trudging through 2-3 feet of snow shut down my quality of life for 3 months a year, how is 2 feet of water any different?

And as far as @mzarrowsmith's comment, he wasn't trolling, the way you phrased your remark sounded very much like what he described. It may not be what you intended but it did.

You seem really bitter about India... I'm not sure what happened to you there, but clearly something did. You might hate the place, but that doesn't mean everyone does. In fact many of the world's richest people live there. They could definitely move out if they wanted to.
 
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peteB

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I don't think the OP started this thread to have everybody debate the future of healthcare or whatever.

You're right, the topic has gone way off course, but I don't mind. I always enjoy a good debate! I think I got most of the answers I was looking for, thanks to everyone who took the time to respond!
 
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