4th Year Stuff - Letters, Aways, Scheduling

[veenut]

Hello all, I thought we could start a thread about the common questions that come up when applying for ortho. I'll start with some of mine...

As my schedule stands I'm currently doing my home Ortho month in July, then 2 aways in Sept/Oct. I have some Urology research that got published and was thinking I could do a Uro rotation in August to get a letter from the attending I did my research with. Anyone know if a Urology letter would carry any weight or be frowned upon? The other option I was thinking was to do a SICU month in August, but I'm slightly terrified of stacking ortho, SICU, ortho, ortho together. Any thoughts?

Feel free to post your own questions on this thread, I figure it's easier than having 50 threads to dig through to get any useful info...

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[Mr. Freeze]

Why would you need to do a month of Uro to get a letter? I doubt an orthopod is going to put much stock in a wiener doc's opinion. I may be wrong though.

 

[DOme2009]

yeah, the cock-doc's letter won't help much. ortho programs want ortho letters like this: pd/chair > academic attending > private ortho >> all others. any letters from other specialties, esp. non-surg (esp. im) are worthless.

 

[PenguinHead]

What about getting a LOR from the PD while on an away? Should you mention it 2 weeks into the rotation and ask him if he'd be comfortable writing one before you leave. Do you mention it within the first week to give him plenty of time?

Thoughts?

 

[SOUNDMAN]

I'd be interested to know this as well.

 

[ddmo]

What about getting a LOR from the PD while on an away? Should you mention it 2 weeks into the rotation and ask him if he'd be comfortable writing one before you leave. Do you mention it within the first week to give him plenty of time?

Thoughts?

I would make sure to spend OR and clinic time with him/her, work hard, and act interested but not annoying. Then towards the end of the rotation ask for a letter. They are expecting you to ask since that's probably why you did the rotation, so don't feel shy.

 

[DOme2009]

I would make sure to spend OR and clinic time with him/her, work hard, and act interested but not annoying. Then towards the end of the rotation ask for a letter. They are expecting you to ask since that's probably why you did the rotation, so don't feel shy.

totally agree with this 100%, especially the part about clinic. face time in clinic can prove that you are competent in the outpatient setting and non-surgical management of orthopedic problems. scrubbing in on cases is a must, too, but helping a clinic run smoothly by doing good focused joint exams and reporting the findings accurately and concisely to a resident or attending can make you a stand-out applicant.

 

[Blesbok]

The only reason I am getting a non-ortho letter is because from what I have heard, some residency apps require a non-ortho letter. However, I would NOT waste a month during prime away season to get a single letter in a non-ortho specialty.

 

[veenut]

I talked to the Ortho residency director at my school and his thoughts about getting non-ortho letters were:

If it's Gen Surg or a surgical subspecialty and it's an excellent letter from someone who knew you well, it can only help you and will probably look better than a mediocre letter from an orthopod

If it's non-surgical, probably not a good idea to send it unless the program explicitly requests such a letter

If it's from an EM doc, for the love of god, don't send it.

Ditto for a letter from Psych...unless it's from your own shrink vouching that you in fact have been doing great since coming off the Haldol 2 weeks ago

 

[Blesbok]

I talked to the Ortho residency director at my school and his thoughts about getting non-ortho letters were:

If it's Gen Surg or a surgical subspecialty and it's an excellent letter from someone who knew you well, it can only help you and will probably look better than a mediocre letter from an orthopod

If it's non-surgical, probably not a good idea to send it unless the program explicitly requests such a letter

If it's from an EM doc, for the love of god, don't send it.

Ditto for a letter from Psych...unless it's from your own shrink vouching that you in fact have been doing great since coming off the Haldol 2 weeks ago

Or if it is from the residency director's shrink...

 

[PenguinHead]

I'm thinking about getting a letter from a PMR guy who is in the ortho dept via rehab. Did some ortho research with him after first year and may do a PRM month b/w aways.

This would only serve to fulfill the non-ortho letter if so required.

 

[gdk]

1- i think it's pretty common to ask for a letter on away rotations. just make sure you spent time with that attending. also, search for threads about how to do well on away rotations here and on orthogate. at some places the attendings have their own clinic with more of a private practice feel. you may end up in clinic with mostly residents and you only see the attending in the OR...
2 - agreed with above on non-ortho surgery letters. if you did great, won some award or something it can only help but i would stay away from ER, medicine, etc. one of my best letters was from a cardiothoracic surgeon whom i rotated with (i ended up seeing the letter eventually).
3 - do whatever you feel comfortable with for your schedule keeping in mind that you might need to reserve time in dec and jan for your interviews. ortho interviews are spread out and many programs have 1 or 2 dates only. you need to make sure you have either vacation or a rotation that will give you time off to travel and make it to the dinner the night before the interview. this may mean missing 3-5 fridays and weekends both months.

 

[gostudy]

Couple of questions:

1. When is the latest one can get a letter and it be of some use for the app? I've heard by the end of October.

2. Is it possible to do a collaboration letter where more than one attending writes one letter for you?

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

yeah, the cock-doc's letter won't help much. ortho programs want ortho letters like this: pd/chair > academic attending > private ortho >> all others. any letters from other specialties, esp. non-surg (esp. im) are worthless.

I'm new to this process, but don't we need like 3 or so letters? Does this mean all of them should be related to the field you are applying for, or is it just important to have one really solid ortho letter? In other words, can the others be non-ortho related as long as you have a good ortho one?

 

[PenguinHead]

I'm new to this process, but don't we need like 3 or so letters? Does this mean all of them should be related to the field you are applying for, or is it just important to have one really solid ortho letter? In other words, can the others be non-ortho related as long as you have a good ortho one?

It depends on the program you will apply to, but most places will require 3 ortho letters. Others may require at least 2 ortho + 1 , or 3 ortho + 1. Or some combination like that.

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

It depends on the program you will apply to, but most places will require 3 ortho letters. Others may require at least 2 ortho + 1 , or 3 ortho + 1. Or some combination like that.

Wow, 3? That's pretty significant. How do orthopods get any work done with all these letters they're writing

The "dept. chair" letter seems like a pretty tricky one also...

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

Couple of questions:

1. When is the latest one can get a letter and it be of some use for the app? I've heard by the end of October.

2. Is it possible to do a collaboration letter where more than one attending writes one letter for you?

I can't answer your Q but I'll "bump" it. On a side note, I love your avatar. My wireless network is named "HAL9000"...I wonder if it's made any of my more geeky neighbors laugh?

 

[FutureOrthoDO]

Here is the low-down. You will get interviews where you rotate about 80-90% of the time. I got one in California where I didn't rotate (I suspect they interview everyone that applies). Board scores are NUMBER ONE!!! You don't make the scores, you don't get interviewed. All ortho applicants have top notch grades, are ranked high in their class, are involved in activities outside the classroom, anyone can get a professor/physician to write a good letter of recommendation, personal statements are all the same stuff. Research can help at some places. But Board scores are NUMBER ONE followed by a good audition rotation.

 

[Hyperlite2011]

When is the ideal time to do your home program sub-I? I'm planning on doing mine in May (last rotation of third year), since I'm pretty sure I'll have a late pick for my schedule if I wait until fourth year. Does it make a difference if you do the rotation before/after the new interns have started?

 

[DoctaJay]

The whole point of doing a home ortho sub-i first is 1) so you will get a chance to work with attendings and residents at your home program 2) get these attendings to write you LORS (imp) 3) make it easier for you to match at your home program because now they truly know how you work...i guess 4) it will help you to work out all your kinks (how to write a good note, physical exam, etc.) before you go on an away ortho rotation where you will be in an alien environment, which can be a hard transition.

I mean you won't be messed up if you don't do it first, but it seems like it can only help, which is the advice i got from the 4th yrs at my prog