90/180 BOG policy on the chopping block

[armytrainingsir]

I swear.

I was a cheerleader for army medicine. First for AD and HPSP.
Then the green weenie made me walk that back.

Hey, the reserves are still fun and a good gig, right?

Then they yank the HPSP retirement credit.

And now, they want to kill the 90 day BOG policy.

I guess they really really really don’t want docs anymore.

Good f’in luck with that.

Anyway, check your army email for a survey from COL Clark, the BOG manager. He seems to be fighting to keep it.

Sigh.

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[CCM-MD]

****. I just signed on the dotted line.

 

[armytrainingsir]

Yeah. I know.

 

[DMBandFan86]

For where er you go, you will always know that the army goes rolling along…..



On my way out of the reserves currently. I almost regretted getting out a few months ago. Even thought about trying to stop the process, and just stay in for another 6-8 years to make 20+. Then i had to call someone who works full time in my unit. Couldn’t get an answer. Tried going up the chain who all work full time. Can barely reach anyone for weeks-months. I just can’t work in that environment anymore. No incentive to do your job, and definitely no reason to do your job well. Just wait until they enact the 4 day work week.

Then got an email from APMC saying they weren’t going to pay for drills anymore. Have to go through my unit to RST. The same unit that cant process any paperwork or answer questions and I live 1000 miles away. Then I just said forget it. Maybe in 10 years they will change things, but for now I don’t belong.

 

[Asklepian]

I can't imagine that this would be good for Army retention or accession whatsoever from the physician side. There is already a lot of sacrifice from physicians taking time out from busy medical practices to serve in an active capacity, but if we get hamstrung further the cons to pros ratio will certainly increase and likely turn more folks away from prolonged service or even initial commitment.

Honestly, if the Army wants to improve physician recruitment and retention it needs to do the same things the private world does to attract talent: better pay, more cushy perks, or both. We have too much going for us outside of the military to continue to sacrifice more with dwindling return...just my two cents.

 

[pgg]

They

Don't

Care

About

Retention

As

Long

As

The

HPSP

Pipeline

Is

Full


And not to put too fine a point on it, but retention is actually an ANTI-goal. Senior doc widgets are more expensive than junior doc widgets. Senior widgets that stay until retirement are super duper extra expensive widgets. The only widgets they want are the newly trained cheap ones on ADSOs, plus a bare minimum of slightly less junior widgets who can do the leadership stuff.

 

[usma05]

I swear.

I was a cheerleader for army medicine. First for AD and HPSP.
Then the green weenie made me walk that back.

Hey, the reserves are still fun and a good gig, right?

Then they yank the HPSP retirement credit.

And now, they want to kill the 90 day BOG policy.

I guess they really really really don’t want docs anymore.

Good f’in luck with that.

Anyway, check your army email for a survey from COL Clark, the BOG manager. He seems to be fighting to keep it.

Sigh.

Well that sucks for the 90 days rule. Re: hpsp credit....I've seen Navy had taken it away, what's your source for Army? I ask cause I know multiple people that got credit in the last couple years and haven't heard of an acute change.

Also, they'll just enact the doctor draft that's been in law for decades if $%&# hits the fan and they need bodies. Really affects primary care and surgeons mostly.

 

[armytrainingsir]

Well that sucks for the 90 days rule. Re: hpsp credit....I've seen Navy had taken it away, what's your source for Army? I ask cause I know multiple people that got credit in the last couple years and haven't heard of an acute change.

Also, they'll just enact the doctor draft that's been in law for decades if $%&# hits the fan and they need bodies. Really affects primary care and surgeons mostly.

Actually I was speaking about Navy re HPSP.
Sorry for being unclear
Army still seems to be allowing it.
Which is darn peculiar. How can two services implement the same DoD instruction so completely differently?

 

[DMBandFan86]

Green weenie = Army, no?

 

[armytrainingsir]

Green weenie = Army, no?

Yup

 

[armytrainingsir]

Bit more info.
BOG policy seems to be under review.
Who knows if that means they have already made a decision or not.
Again, watch your emails if you’re reservist and don’t blow off any surveys.
Hopefully we can nip this in the bud.

 

[TheGoose]

Just when I was considering the Reserve...

Any word on impact to national guard? Same policy?

 

[dj-Roomba]

I'm considering joining the Army reserve. What is the 90/180 BOG policy?

 

[DeadCactus]

I'm considering joining the Army reserve. What is the 90/180 BOG policy?

Policy has limited Reserve Component deployment lengths to 90/180 days in-country ( with a few weeks pre- and post-deployment). This made service a lot more realistic for civilian physicians because a 3 month deployment is a hardship but surmountable. The concern now is that physicians will be expected to deploy for 6, 9, or even 12+ months that Active Duty faces which will cause significant problems with civilian practices.

 

[CCM-MD]

Policy has limited Reserve Component deployment lengths to 90/180 days in-country ( with a few weeks pre- and post-deployment). This made service a lot more realistic for civilian physicians because a 3 month deployment is a hardship but surmountable. The concern now is that physicians will be expected to deploy for 6, 9, or even 12+ months that Active Duty faces which will cause significant problems with civilian practices.

Good way to end up with no physicians in the reserve.

 

[DeadCactus]

Good way to end up with no physicians in the reserve.

I suspect that is sometimes their goal. Probably a lot of ~15 year physicians they would love to drive out.

 

[armytrainingsir]

And the Army’s policy goes rolling along…..

After the first Gulf War, reservists quit in droves after having civilian practices ruined by pointless MOBs. I knew a CT surgeon that sat at Bullis for months doing nothing before backfilling to Tripler. He resigned his commission as soon as he separated from AD.
Pointless waste.
So the army learned a lesson and when 9/11happened, quickly pivoted to 90 day BOG for docs and granted credit for HPSP toward retirement to entice ets’ing docs to transfer to the reserves.
Now, that need is ‘over’ with CENTCOM being a memory in DC even though PACOM being the next big thing and war in the pacific being the biggest apparent threat.

So, why the change?
First, still no change in policy and they might not change anything after this review.


If they do scrap the 90day BOG policy, a few possibilities as to why.
.
Army has a short memory and forgets lessons learned in the 90s.

Money. People are expensive. So are F35s. They are happy to get rid of expensive physicians during ‘peace’ time they can buy more toys They can always draft physicians if needed immediately, extend AD folks, MOB all AD docs and leave CONUS to civilian systems, recall retirees, and offer substantial financial incentives to debt laden senior residents.

No need. Planners have determined that a major conflict in the pacific won’t need much in the way of deployed medical support due to its planned lethality and/or short duration.

Conspiracy theory alert! Deliberate weakening of military strength by nefarious actors within the system.

 

[TheEarDoc]

And the Army’s policy goes rolling along…..

After the first Gulf War, reservists quit in droves after having civilian practices ruined by pointless MOBs. I knew a CT surgeon that sat at Bullis for months doing nothing before backfilling to Tripler. He resigned his commission as soon as he separated from AD.
Pointless waste.
So the army learned a lesson and when 9/11happened, quickly pivoted to 90 day BOG for docs and granted credit for HPSP toward retirement to entice ets’ing docs to transfer to the reserves.
Now, that need is ‘over’ with CENTCOM being a memory in DC even though PACOM being the next big thing and war in the pacific being the biggest apparent threat.

So, why the change?
First, still no change in policy and they might not change anything after this review.


If they do scrap the 90day BOG policy, a few possibilities as to why.
.
Army has a short memory and forgets lessons learned in the 90s.

Money. People are expensive. So are F35s. They are happy to get rid of expensive physicians during ‘peace’ time they can buy more toys They can always draft physicians if needed immediately, extend AD folks, MOB all AD docs and leave CONUS to civilian systems, recall retirees, and offer substantial financial incentives to debt laden senior residents.

No need. Planners have determined that a major conflict in the pacific won’t need much in the way of deployed medical support due to its planned lethality and/or short duration.

Conspiracy theory alert! Deliberate weakening of military strength by nefarious actors within the system.

I'd say it's some bean counter thinking they can just throw a ton of incentives at people to draw docs out of the IRR to join up if things get hot or they just expect to be able to force people out of the IRR and back into service if they need them and it will be cheaper than continuing to pay high level officers monthly drill pay, board pay, and all the bennies they get when they do pull them up for service.

I was always jealous of the 90/180 day BOG folks as for many providers taking a financial hit of going for an entire year was also hard, but they didn't care. My AOC does 12 month mobilizations/deployments. Luckily I work for the VA so it's not as big of a deal if I get plucked up for a year, but if I had my own practice (which is common in audiology) or worked in a smaller ENT clinic (again common in audiology) I could kill a practice with 1 mobilization for 12 months.

I'd rather see them do 180 BOG for all AMEDD. I think it would definitely help ease some of the pain and retain folks, but again we are in "peace" time now so retention is not a concern. They know they can just open that spigot again if they need to and hand out of some cash from Uncle Sugar and they will get warm bodies.

My advice to anyone who is 0-4 and above with less than 12 years in is drop your VA disability paperwork, get your service connection, resign your commission unless you just die hard love the military and can't see yourself not embracing the suck that is most likely coming.

 

[rando97]

Anyone know what happened? Is it still 90 day cap? Incoming M1 deciding whether or not to do reserves

 

[armytrainingsir]

The ‘official ‘ (?). answer I’m told is it is already gone officially (start of COVID) but they are trying to reinstate it but they have been honoring it the entire time.

That said, if you’re an M1, there’s no way to predict what will be going on when you’re ready to practice medicine as a civilian, so don’t even fool yourself that you can figure it out.