medanthgirl

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I can't remember which post I saw this on, but someone was saying that RFU ain't all that - that even if you might get in to RFU's med school, it's not that good of a school, b/c they don't have good residency matches and it's just barely above a carribean school. Is this true? Granted any school that gets you in, providing you work your butt off, is good enough for me, but this seems harder to accept, seeing that the pricetag is sooooooo heavy ($52K i think).

Plus, anytime that RFU's post-bacc comes up in the posts I only remember seeing mentions of people getting accepted to RFU, not other schools, even in the Chicago area. Is this true? Maybe is it better to go with Layola's program then? :confused:
 

Phil Anthropist

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Rosalind Franklin's program is 48 credits in one year. Other true SMPs are about 36 or less. I imagine it's hard to go on interviews, work on secondaries, etc., if you're in RFU's program. If I went to RFU's program I would probably expect to go to RFU (assuming I performed well enough), not another med school. However, if you did up some of the old threads (when RFU was still Finch) you can see that some students in the program are successful getting in elsewhere. The caveat is that some of these students were borderline applicants prior to entering the MS in Applied Physiology program. So again, chances are you'll end up at RFU. One big advantage of RFU over Loyola is that Loyola MAMS is designed so that you apply after the program (i.e., the program is designed so that you participate in the application cycle during your glide year)

When I do apply, Loyola would be one of my dream schools. But honestly, Rosalind Franklin is leaps and bounds above a Caribbean school when it comes to obtaining residencies. Okay, so it's not Harvard, Wash U, or Hopkins, but it's definitely not "barely above a Caribbean school." Any Caribbean student would kill for the opportunity to go to *any* US allopathic school (hyperbolically speaking ;) ). My best friend is at SGU right now and he's trying to transfer to a US med school that isn't exactly the first choice of most traditional applicants (not that it's a bad school though!). In fact, most people probably haven't even heard of this particular school!

Regarding residency appointments, judge for yourself:

Rosalind Franklin:
http://www.rosalindfranklin.edu/students/class/2004/matchlist.htm
St. George's:
http://www.sgu.edu/nhome.nsf/webcontent/78ACA4C6CBA8513885256E6A0079D86C?OpenDocument
Ross:
http://www.rossmed.edu/Residency_Appts_/residency_appts_.html
AUC:
http://www.aucmed.edu/students/resid_appts.htm
Saba (when it opens it goes to 2002, but you can see later years):
http://www.saba.edu/residency_match.php

The uber-competitive matches coming from the Caribbean are rare. Typically, these applicants have something great going for them (kick ass USMLE Step I and II, incredible recommendations from attendings/big wigs, excellent clinical grades, connections, etc.). People who say, "You can match ophthalmology coming from the Caribbean," are making very misleading statements. Yes, it's possible...but highly unlikely. But for less competitive--competitive matches, the Carib's still okay (obgyn, IM, peds, psych, gas, EM, etc.).

Edit: one more thing...

Loyola is better designed if you'd like more med school options (but I still think this program is flawed for a variety of reasons).

With RFU, it's hard to imagine why you would not enroll for the following year (in hopes of getting into another med school) when you've already got an acceptance in hand. I think it would be extremely risky turning down an acceptance when you've got no guarantee of success for the upcoming cycle.
 

myg

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Hi,

After completing the RFU MAP program, is application to the RFU Med school still through the same AMCAS process ?
Also,
since RFU MAP students share classes with RFU MED students, if you are later accepted into the RFU MED program, are you enrolled into the second year or given credit for the classes you have already taken ?

I appreciate any help !!

Thanks

MYG
 

Phil Anthropist

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myg said:
Hi,

After completing the RFU MAP program, is application to the RFU Med school still through the same AMCAS process ?
Also,
since RFU MAP students share classes with RFU MED students, if you are later accepted into the RFU MED program, are you enrolled into the second year or given credit for the classes you have already taken ?

I appreciate any help !!

Thanks

MYG
This is what I've gathered from students in the program...

When you enroll, you are told to file AMCAS before you even enter the program.

If you are accepted after completing the program, you start as an M1A: medical student first year-advanced. This isn't the same as being a 2nd year med student. You take the few classes left to complete your first year courses (not that many). You can choose to do research, take some coursework electives, sit on your butt and relax a little, etc. But you still have to pay full tuition. So yes, you don't have to repeat courses you've completed successfully. I would guess that you could retake a course if you really wanted to, but don't quote me on that. I'm sure a graduate of the program would be better equipped to answer that question [ :oops: ].
 

myg

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Hello Phil,
Thanks for the quick reply !! Now you've gone and done it, I just have more questions !!! :p

I had applied for and got admitted to the MAP program for July 2004. I tried to defer admission for a year due to personal reasons but that was a no go. When I received all of the acceptance paperwork, there was nothing in there about applying to AMCAS ? Do you suppose they mention it during orientation ?

Ha, I hit a real low point in 2004 when I was denied admission to RFU Med, considering its not so stellar reputation :oops:(.

Phil Anthropist said:
This is what I've gathered from students in the program...

When you enroll, you are told to file AMCAS before you even enter the program.

If you are accepted after completing the program, you start as an M1A: medical student first year-advanced. This isn't the same as being a 2nd year med student. You take the few classes left to complete your first year courses (not that many). You can choose to do research, take some coursework electives, sit on your butt and relax a little, etc. But you still have to pay full tuition. So yes, you don't have to repeat courses you've completed successfully. I would guess that you could retake a course if you really wanted to, but don't quote me on that. I'm sure a graduate of the program would be better equipped to answer that question [ :oops: ].
 

Phil Anthropist

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myg said:
I had applied for and got admitted to the MAP program for July 2004. I tried to defer admission for a year due to personal reasons but that was a no go. When I received all of the acceptance paperwork, there was nothing in there about applying to AMCAS ? Do you suppose they mention it during orientation ?

Ha, I hit a real low point in 2004 when I was denied admission to RFU Med, considering its not so stellar reputation :oops:(.
I wouldn't worry about the rep so much. I realize it's not exactly everyone's dream school, but I think RFU's grads do quite well for themselves. And ultimately, it's where you get your residency (and fellowships if you continue) that really matters. I think premeds like to get in squabbles about reputation of med schools, but it's the residency/fellowship that's more important. It just so happens that some of the schools that have big reps tend to match into more competitive specialties better.

But honestly, if your mission is to get into a US allo school, RFU's program is way to go.

Koman's one of the experts around these parts for the program. So you might want to ask him. But I was told by a former student of the program (or maybe I read it on an old thread...I can't remember) that the AP students are told to file AMCAS at some point by the program director/coordinator (I don't know...someone!). It could very well be during orientation.
 

myg

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Hi, I have sent a PM to KOMAN and will post his reply here for the benefit of others.

My biggest concern is that if I go into the MAP and complete it satisfactorily and bomb the MED interview ( as I bombed the original Med interview), I would have lost yet another chance ? Ha.. wow, never realized I worried so much !!

Phil Anthropist said:
I wouldn't worry about the rep so much. I realize it's not exactly everyone's dream school, but I think RFU's grads do quite well for themselves. And ultimately, it's where you get your residency (and fellowships if you continue) that really matters. I think premeds like to get in squabbles about reputation of med schools, but it's the residency/fellowship that's more important. It just so happens that some of the schools that have big reps tend to match into more competitive specialties better.

But honestly, if your mission is to get into a US allo school, RFU's program is way to go.

Koman's one of the experts around these parts for the program. So you might want to ask him. But I was told by a former student of the program (or maybe I read it on an old thread...I can't remember) that the AP students are told to file AMCAS at some point by the program director/coordinator (I don't know...someone!). It could very well be during orientation.
 

redsoxfan

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Phil Anthropist said:
I wouldn't worry about the rep so much. I realize it's not exactly everyone's dream school, but I think RFU's grads do quite well for themselves. And ultimately, it's where you get your residency (and fellowships if you continue) that really matters. I think premeds like to get in squabbles about reputation of med schools, but it's the residency/fellowship that's more important. It just so happens that some of the schools that have big reps tend to match into more competitive specialties better.

But honestly, if your mission is to get into a US allo school, RFU's program is way to go.

Koman's one of the experts around these parts for the program. So you might want to ask him. But I was told by a former student of the program (or maybe I read it on an old thread...I can't remember) that the AP students are told to file AMCAS at some point by the program director/coordinator (I don't know...someone!). It could very well be during orientation.

I'm so glad there are other pple w/similar questions... I am in the process of applying to RFU's MAP program. I'm a little stumped on the essay--"discuss your academic objectives"--um, how about get into med school?? Not really sure what to say to that. Also, like some of you, I'm not sure if this program is worth its money. However, I did talk to someone in admissions the other day and she was pretty helpful. Apparently everyone in the program gets an interview before classes start so that profs will not be biased later on. This year's application says "A modification of the curriculum has been implemented with the 2004-2005 academic year, which will provide a more balanced course load for the program." I don't know if this means more time to fill out secondaries, etc. As for the reputation of the school, I hadn't heard anything negative before this discussion board, although I am not from the Chicago area. I do, however, work with an RFU med school grad, now Cardiology fellow, who is excellent...
 

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Hi,

I did not go through the AP program at RFU, but I have friends that did. Yes they do have to apply to AMCAS during that year, so you could apply to other schools if you wanted to. The AP program is a very competitive program and the student that get into it work very hard, not everyone in the program gets accepted into the school. As far as reputation of RFU, the reason why it doesn't have a stellar reputation is not due to the quality of the students, it is more because it does not have its own hospital associated with it, so it's name is not out there. But believe me, I am a 4th yr. graduating from the school, and we get into many competive residencies just as any other school. Just last yr., we've had a student get into urology at U. of Michigan, ortho at Stanford, anesthesia at Harvard etc. Medical school is what you make of it. Get good grades and make the connections on your elective rotations, and do some research.
 

EctopicFetus

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As far as comparing RFU to the Caribbean... well we have better match results than them and the DOs (who for the record do better in the match than the Carribean).

Last yr we had someone match straight into plastics 55 total spots. This yr we have 7 or 8 that matched in the Optho and 1 girl got ENT at Yale. I think we also got 2 in Urology and we constantly get 2 or so into NeuroSurg. Our school is doing exceptionally well because the students that get in are very motivated.

Peace Ectopic!
 

myg

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It looks like if I indeed go through the RFU MAP route and do have to go through the AMCAS application process I am not sure if I have to write the MCAT again. I originally took it in April 2002. I read somewhere (not sure if it was a school specific site) that anyting over 3 years requires a redo ?
 

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The general rule on the MAP program is that you need to maintain a 2.96 GPA. Some people have a real hard time with this cause they show up unprepared to do the necessary amount of work.

Also, there are a number of MAP grads who score over 230 on the boards.

Anyways,
Dont knock it until you try it. Also as far as matching we had one guy match EM at Harvard. I would say that we probably have one of the best EM match lists in the country (we matched for more EM spots last year than any other school.)

One other thing about the carribean (not to knock it) but a large number of students dont make it through their first year. Thats not the case at CMS.
 

myg

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I am seriously considering going the MAP route. I am pretty decent when it comes to studying and can hopefully keep my GPA on the right side of 3.00. I looked at all of the other options and the more I look, I don't think I want to be an FMG. I would not mind spending an year. But I am very hesitant when it comes to actually making the transition from MAP to med school. It still seems like a place where one mistake could ruin your chances. Does anyone have any stats as to # Accepted to RFU Med / # Applications from MAP Students ?
 
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medanthgirl

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whew - okay, i feel better now about RFU. The post i saw earlier just made me panic i guess, that going to rfu's physiology program would lock you in there and not neccessarily open you up to other places (which is what i would like out of a post bacc program,that i could apply 8-10 places with a better chance/more confidence), but getting into rfu would be a good thing regardless :)

it's funny... my husband is a peds resident and last night at a housestaff dinner people were talking about how many people go into specialties just so they can pay back their med school debt (depending on where they went) in a reasonable amount of time. i just gulped b/c all i could think about was RFU 5(52,000) = 250,000K. gulp. even though i would gladly live the life of a pauper to learn and live medicine, there are just some practical concerns (i.e. my husbands 100,000K med school debt, kids in the future - sorry honey mommy doesn't have money for your college, she's still paying off hers, etc)
 

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Does anyone have any stats as to # Accepted to RFU Med / # Applications from MAP Students ?

Generally about 2/3 of the class ends up on the right side of the curve. Over the last 5 yrs or so NO ONE with a 3.0 has been denied. They dont make a promise like they used to but it is almost 100% sure unless they think you are a terrible person or something.

Also I can speak that my "MAP" class we refer to it as simply "A.P" we had a number 10 or so go to other schools for their MD, including one girl who went to UF to do an MD/PhD.

If you guys have other questions please feel free to IM me. RFUMS is a wonderful place with wonderful students.
 

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Wow ..that is indeed good news . .sorry for my ignorance re: MAP and AP .. I sound like an outsider trying to talk the talk :p. EctopicFetus, please forgive my ignorance, did you mention that you were an AP "Grad" and now are a RFU Med student ? If so, how recent was that ? and how was the interview ? did they put you through your paces in terms of questions or was it more of an informal chat and a formality ?
 

EctopicFetus

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I am currently a 3rd yr. MAP and AP are the same thing. We call it "the AP program" but it doesnt matter. I am currently at RFUMS. The interview really depends on who you get but I can say it doesnt matter my two interviews were a complete joke, we just shot the breeze. Although I know others who got questions like.. "ok so you finished genetics, so pick a disease and tell me everything you know about it" my friend bombed this question but he still got in. Another question someone told me was "I see you are from California.. How would you revamp the medical system there?"

My hardest question was "do you want something to drink", it really was that easy!

In the end it doesnt matter, just be yourself and dont spaz it truly is nothing more than a formality! Good luck. If you have more Qs ill try to check this board but PMing me is better.
 

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question about lors:

does RFU accept "current letters for medical school" like Georgetown does? Or do you have to use their forms and/or letters written directly to the program?
 

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mspe22med said:
question about lors:

does RFU accept "current letters for medical school" like Georgetown does? Or do you have to use their forms and/or letters written directly to the program?
Hello all, I guess I should post to help out. I believe RFU accepts current letters for medical schools. You should talk to admissions for that but my year they did. I finished AP last year and Im a M1A this year. This means Im NOT a M2 but an M1 that only has to take the classes I didnt take last year. Interviews are a formality. They do ask you hard questions like a normal interview but they are really nice about it. Plus, if you bomb an interview, I heard you can re-do it until its satisfactory. Also, ppl do get into other schools, its just not that common. One of my friends got into Rush without even finishing AP. However, he had a pretty good undergrad GPA and decent MCATs that he probably would have made it in without AP. I think that most AP programs dont really help you that much to get into other schools. Its only showing 1 year of work, schools like it if you consistanly show good grades, ie a grad program etc. But if you like RFU, AP is great.

As far as RFU, its no Harvard, but I think students do well here because they are so motivated. I hear we score better than average on Step I. If the other ex-AP are right, a lot of AP kids go on to score above 230 on the boards. Im hoping thats the case for my year, heh heh, Ill just have to wait and see. Its got a bad rep because the school doesnt have its own teaching hospital, such as UCLA or USC/LA County hospital. But we do rotate thru good hospitals such as cook county. welll....thats about it from me, hope it helps.

TheKoman
 

EctopicFetus

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TheKoman said:
As far as RFU, its no Harvard, but I think students do well here because they are so motivated. I hear we score better than average on Step I. If the other ex-AP are right, a lot of AP kids go on to score above 230 on the boards. Im hoping thats the case for my year, heh heh, Ill just have to wait and see. Its got a bad rep because the school doesnt have its own teaching hospital, such as UCLA or USC/LA County hospital. But we do rotate thru good hospitals such as cook county. welll....thats about it from me, hope it helps.

TheKoman
It certainly isnt Harvard, I would also say that one of the bigger drawbacks is the lack of research opportunities. That being said if you want to go into one of the more competitive fields you should find your own research opportunity in your field.

That being said some of my colleagues' board scores (all of which did the AP) program. 256, 251,249, 2 others over 245, then 237, 233. I sadly didnt do as well. 2 others i know didnt do well either with socres of 210 and 207.

Those are just some of the scores as you can see AP students sure do know how to prepare for the test.

Additionally, one of the current 4th yrs I know who was an AP matched at Northwestern for Optho and another guy got over 260 and is going into IM.

Bottom line is you can do very well if you want to.
 

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I'm curious about three other things:

-How hard exactly is it to get into the AP program? What kind of GPA/GRE do you need, and what's the acceptance rate into the AP program?

-Is a "B" an above-average or below-average grade in the med school classes in you take in the AP program? In other words, do you need to do better than the average first-year RFU med student in order to get a 3.0+ average in your classes?

-If you complete the AP program with a 3.0+ GPA, do you need to take off for a "glide year" before enrolling in the RFU med school, or can you enroll in the med school immediately after you finish the AP program?
 

TheKoman

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gnin said:
I'm curious about three other things:

-How hard exactly is it to get into the AP program? What kind of GPA/GRE do you need, and what's the acceptance rate into the AP program?

-Is a "B" an above-average or below-average grade in the med school classes in you take in the AP program? In other words, do you need to do better than the average first-year RFU med student in order to get a 3.0+ average in your classes?

-If you complete the AP program with a 3.0+ GPA, do you need to take off for a "glide year" before enrolling in the RFU med school, or can you enroll in the med school immediately after you finish the AP program?
1. Cant say how hard exactly it is to get into AP. Id say 3.0 GPA 29MCATs is the average stats

2. "B" is above-average. Some clases are straight scaled, 90-80-70, little or no curve.

3. No "glide year", can enroll immediately when accepted.