A plan of Action

[M.Furfur]

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Members don't see this ad.

I apologize for opening another thread about this topic that has been discussed ad nauseum.

The purpose of the thread is not to whine about the directions DNP programs are taking but to come up with a feasible plan to stop this nonsense. It is obvious that since nurses are governed by their own boards, they truly are unlimited in what they can claim. If they define surgery as something that falls under nursing practice, they can start a surgery residency, keep adding hours to it and later claim that they are equivalent to surgeons. This can apply to every specialty and has already been done in primary care and Anasthesia.

What can we do to stop this?

Can we deal with it at the level of universities educating them? Can we refuse their referrals? Stop hiring them? Aren't they technically practicing medicine without a license??

I can give you an example from Canada. One hospital that I used to work at decided to hire a np for one of their department. All doctors objected and gave the administration an ultimatum of US or her! Is this feasible in the US?

 

[badasshairday]

I agree, things need to be done. Also keep in mind that DNP's should be careful what they wish for:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3958/is_200303/ai_n9182920/

http://communitynewspapergroup.com/...y_register/news/doc4b192e803bc1b397045202.txt

 

[M.Furfur]

Here's the input of DOCB:

"I do think that we should lobby the BOMs to be ready to go when the time comes. It's pretty clear that anyone calling themselves a doctor and practicing medicine autonomously should fall under the BOM's jurisdiction. That will be an easy sale. The BOMs have lots of physician representation so they will understand the fake out going on and getting any burearucracy to expand its own power is a no brainer.

I also think we should be ready with a good attack ad campaign ready to go in each state where the DNPs make a play. Point out, dramatically, that these people are not doctors even though they are trying to play them in real life. They are taking advantage of the elderly and the sick, etc. etc. "

Here's the email of the Florida BOM. I urge everyone of you to write them and then write to your own State's BOM.

Email: [email protected]
Board Telephone: 850 245-4131
FAX: (850) 488-9325
Mailing Address:
4052 Bald Cypress Way, Bin #C03
Tallahassee, Florida 32399-3253

 

[M.Furfur]

American College of Surgeons
[email protected]

Emphasize that Doctors need to unite, that no specialty is insulated and that the independance of nursing boards makes it possible for them to start surgical residencies. Nurses lied once about primary care. Fool me once shame on you......

Americal medical association
https://extapps.ama-assn.org/contactus/contactusMain.do

American college of physicians
http://www.acponline.org/cgi-bin/feedback

American academy of family physicians
http://www.aafp.org/online/en/home/aboutus/theaafp/contact.html#Parsys71461

American academy of dermatology
http://www.aad.org/Forms/ContactUs/

American society of anasthesiologists
[email protected]

 

[M.Furfur]

..

 

[Rabbit Hole]

American College of Surgeons
[email protected]

Emphasize that Doctors need to unite, that no specialty is insulated and that the independance of nursing boards makes it possible for them to start surgical residencies. Nurses lied once about primary care. Fool me once shame on you......

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."


[Sorry, couldn't resist.] 😉

 

[JaggerPlate]

1- Stop hiring Nurse practitioners.

Very important step.

It makes me wonder something too ... should doctors refuse referrals from NPs?? Obviously they are going to need to refer anything important to a physician, and it seems like if the word got around that anyone who sees an NP and needs a potential referral won't be able to get one, or will have to see a doc before getting it, they would really struggle??

Or is this just too dangerous to patients??

 

[Smurfette]

I don't think that would be the answer. I think if an NP refers a patient to you, you should tell the patient that YOU should be managing the problem because it is outside of the NPs scope of practice, which is true.

 

[M.Furfur]

.

 

[caspian]

Posted this is in a different thread, but I think it's perfect for this Plan-o-Action discussion:

Organized medicine pushes back on expansions of scope of practice

Physicians ask legislatures to establish scope-of-practice review committees. They say court cases in Texas and Iowa highlight the need to preserve patient safety.



http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2010/01/18/prl20118.htm

Some highlights:

In anticipation of another onslaught in 2010, physicians, with the help of AMA model legislation, plan to push lawmakers to establish state scope-of-practice review panels to evaluate plans by nonphysician health professionals who wish to expand their practice realm. The panels would be composed of various regulatory board officials, university experts and other health care advisers to help lawmakers understand the underlying medical, educational and public interest considerations.

Members of the lay public who have been the victim of sub-par care need to be on these committees! In addition, former NP/CRNAs turned MDs should be present too. These individuals will lend credibility to the argument that a nurse's education is simply insufficient for the independent practice of medicine.


When legislative avenues fail, nonphysicians are turning to regulatory boards to expand their realm of expertise -- a tactic that increasingly is landing scope debates in the courts, said Rocky Wilcox, vice president and general counsel at the Texas Medical Assn.

CRNAs have done it, DNPs are already working on it. They skirt around the law by using their state boards to declare what tasks fall within their purview.

 

[mig26x]

Posted this is in a different thread, but I think it's perfect for this Plan-o-Action discussion:

Organized medicine pushes back on expansions of scope of practice

Physicians ask legislatures to establish scope-of-practice review committees. They say court cases in Texas and Iowa highlight the need to preserve patient safety.



http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2010/01/18/prl20118.htm

Some highlights:

In anticipation of another onslaught in 2010, physicians, with the help of AMA model legislation, plan to push lawmakers to establish state scope-of-practice review panels to evaluate plans by nonphysician health professionals who wish to expand their practice realm. The panels would be composed of various regulatory board officials, university experts and other health care advisers to help lawmakers understand the underlying medical, educational and public interest considerations.

Members of the lay public who have been the victim of sub-par care need to be on these committees! In addition, former NP/CRNAs turned MDs should be present too. These individuals will lend credibility to the argument that a nurse's education is simply insufficient for the independent practice of medicine.


When legislative avenues fail, nonphysicians are turning to regulatory boards to expand their realm of expertise -- a tactic that increasingly is landing scope debates in the courts, said Rocky Wilcox, vice president and general counsel at the Texas Medical Assn.

CRNAs have done it, DNPs are already working on it. They skirt around the law by using their state boards to declare what tasks fall within their purview.

that's good news!!

 

[JaggerPlate]

that's good news!!

It's good news, but it was posted January 18, you know??? I'd love hear when these reviews will be, who will be attending, what will be discussed, etc.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

In the NPs establishing derm residency thread, I made a post that compared the education NPs/DNPs receive and what physicians receive. I was wondering if there's anything more I can do with that than just posting it on anonymous forums.

I've been contemplating (for a while since I originally made that post last year) trying to get in touch with journalists to try to get someone to post an article that included my comparison, but I don't know how good of an idea that would be. I'm currently considering posting that along with my email to the various chairs, etc, that were listed in several posts in the other thread. What would you guys recommend I do with that comparison? Would trying to get in touch with a journalist or emailing it to chairs, etc, be a good idea in your guys' opinions?

 

[Maybeknot]

I've started a website that will hopefully educate the public on this issue. I'm trying to make it well-referenced but in language that's easy for non-medical people to understand. I've PM'ed a few of you with the link; if anyone else wants to take a look and give comments or contribute, please PM me. I don't want to give out the full link until it's more complete.

 

[M.Furfur]

I finally received a reply from the AMA. They are aware and taking it very seriously.
They have lot of info in the member only section (Unfortunately I can't post them) and they are preparing for the coming storm big time.
Keep the pressure on State medical boards and keep notifying them about the new nursing tricks you encounter.

 

[Rabbit Hole]

I finally received a reply from the AMA. They are aware and taking it very seriously.
They have lot of info in the member only section (Unfortunately I can't post them) and they are preparing for the coming storm big time.
Keep the pressure on State medical boards and keep notifying them about the new nursing tricks you encounter.

2 specific examples of what I consider to be highly questionable behavior:
I posted about both of them here. (My posts are the last ones).

- 1 example involving misinformation by a person of authority. (Lisa Thiemann from AANA and CRNA).

- 1 example involving the entire Dermatology Nurses' Association "public relations program" - very poor taste.


What time is it? I believe it's time for a Hitler/Nazi reference:
“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.” - Joseph Goebbels, Propaganda Minister in Nazi Germany

 

[PICUPNP]

I have never experienced such whining from a group of educated people! You all do realize that the # of current NPs who support all of this crap is extremely low? I have bitched about this from the begining and it does no good. People up on high developed a degree which is useless and has caused more issues than any decsion I can remember. The concept of independent practice among NPs is ridiculous! Please, please, please get rid of the dnp degree(sham). Just a current NPs perspective.......

 

[Winged Scapula]

I have never experienced such whining from a group of educated people!

You must not spend much time on allnurses.com. 😀

You all do realize that the # of current NPs who support all of this crap is extremely low? I have bitched about this from the begining and it does no good. People up on high developed a degree which is useless and has caused more issues than any decsion I can remember. The concept of independent practice among NPs is ridiculous! Please, please, please get rid of the dnp degree(sham). Just a current NPs perspective.......

We do realize it. However, there are enough of your colleagues out there that believe they deserve to be called doctor, who want independent practice, who don't know what they don't know and assume they know more than the physicians, that we're concerned. All "movements" started with 1 person, right?

 

[deleted87716]

What time is it? I believe it's time for a Hitler/Nazi reference

Godwin's Law. Excellent.

 

[filter07]

What time is it? I believe it's time for a Hitler/Nazi reference:
"The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over." - Joseph Goebbels, Propaganda Minister in Nazi Germany

Godwin's Law fulfilled yet again!

oops already noted above

 

[mig26x]

I have never experienced such whining from a group of educated people! .

take a walk through allnurses.com. Is like everyone is a crybaby and I think the NP's/RN's in allnurses are also very upset about MA's wanting to do the nurses job.