Planning a transfer

[Goro]

I understand that residency is different, but I don't have any allegiance to these people. I don't them anything outside the job requirements. I don't have to like them. And there nothing to like about them. I hate the place with a passion. Some people take this so personally, a random person online doesn't like their program and it's labeled as a calloused disregard

You made your bed, now you lie in it.

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[cj_cregg]

I understand that residency is different, but I don't have any allegiance to these people. I don't them anything outside the job requirements. I don't have to like them. And there nothing to like about them. I hate the place with a passion. Some people take this so personally, a random person online doesn't like their program and it's labeled as a calloused disregard

That's fine if you hate your program, but you need to have your PD like you if you want any chance whatsoever of getting into even a mediocre program in the same specialty. Nobody here is taking this personally, we are all trying to give you the best chance possible of practicing medicine AT ALL let alone transferring. People are getting snarky with you because you come across as intentionally self sabotaging.

 

[guytakingboards]

OP, this is going to sound like a ridiculous question this late in the game but I ask it sincerely: do you want to practice medicine?

 

[DO2015CA]

I've heard many negative things about the program name, location, reputation etc.

So now you are taking secondary information from disgruntled people? Are you too young to have played the game telephone in elementary school?

 

[Qpworueury]

So now you are taking secondary information from disgruntled people? Are you too young to have played the game telephone in elementary school?

It's not just a couple people. It's lots of faculty
at my current program and former residents at that program. One of my faculty members at my current program said "oh man I would be upset as you if I ended up there for residency"

 

[DO2015CA]

It's not just a couple people. It's lots of faculty
at my current program and former residents at that program. One of my faculty members at my current program said "oh man I would be upset as you if I ended up there for residency"

Ok well then forgo the spot

 

[Qpworueury]

Ok well then forgo the spot

I need a job so I can't

 

[Dr.LeoSpaceman]

This is the gold standard kind of trolling. Just believable enough for everyone to pile in. An artistic mix of hubris, poor grammar, and original content.

Bravo.

Yeah, definitely confirmed at this point. The slow trickle of "new" information meant to continue engagement with fresh disbelief/annoyance ("Everyone hates the place", "Even people at my program said they'd be upset") is a dead give away. Kudos for playing the long game and setting up a follow-up from the original. That's dedication.

It's starting to feel like the infernal "reply all" chains with people saying "Don't reply all!". And yes, I'm part of the problem..

 

[Goro]

I need a job so I can't

10/10!

 

[Qpworueury]

Yeah, definitely confirmed at this point. The slow trickle of "new" information meant to continue engagement with fresh disbelief/annoyance ("Everyone hates the place", "Even people at my program said they'd be upset") is a dead give away. Kudos for playing the long game and setting up a follow-up from the original. That's dedication.

It's starting to feel like the infernal "reply all" chains with people saying "Don't reply all!". And yes, I'm part of the problem..

It doesn't really matter to me if you think this. Am I over exaggerating, probably. But most everyone I told in my current program had a visceral negative reaction to this place. I think 1-2 people had a positive reaction.

To add, if I matched at one of my top choices. Life would be so much easier. But because of the match my plans were turned upside down.

 

[Qpworueury]

OP, this is going to sound like a ridiculous question this late in the game but I ask it sincerely: do you want to practice medicine?

I like medicine. It would be a whole lot easier if things fell into place the way I wanted

 

[ThoracicGuy]

 

[ThoracicGuy]

 

[smq123]

It would be a whole lot easier if things fell into place the way I wanted

Good observation, Captain Obvious.

 

[Smurfette]

I've heard many negative things about the program name, location, reputation etc.

I think the reputation from what I heard is poor, in terms of teaching and research opportunities. A lot of people don't like the location either. I don't know a single person that had this place in their top 5. It's a backup for most people. No one is excited to go there. I haven't even heard from any of the residents there yet. By this time last year everyone was chatting at my current program

Yup. The irony is that you tarnished your reputation by sending an inappropriate email, sending a follow up lie in an email, failing to respond to the program, such that they had to contact your current employer (thus making this "public" among multiple circles) to physically find you and put you on the phone with them, and whatever else you may have said and done to make this extra cringeworthy. I GUARANTEE you are not a top choice of theirs at this point. They aren't putting you in their top 5 either, you are basically damaged goods. Program directors talk, so you are going to be damaged good to all their PD friends too. You and your program are stuck with each other for 45 days nonetheless. The question is, who has more to lose in this situation? Hint: it's not the program. If they fire you on day 46, you are screwed. If you continue to do sketchy things and try to stealth yourself out of your program, you are also going to end up screwed.

Also, all your future co-residents are currently interns, not fourth year med students lolligagging around waiting for residency to start after graduation like last year. They're busy. If it bothers you so much you haven't heard from anyone, no one is stopping you from being the one to start some sort of communication.

NGL, this thread is some much needed entertainment. 👹

 

[Helpful Troll]

To add, if I matched at one of my top choices. Life would be so much easier. But because of my performance my plans were turned upside down.

FTFY

 

[Qpworueury]

Yup. The irony is that you tarnished your reputation by sending an inappropriate email, sending a follow up lie in an email, failing to respond to the program, such that they had to contact your current employer (thus making this "public" among multiple circles) to physically find you and put you on the phone with them, and whatever else you may have said and done to make this extra cringeworthy. I GUARANTEE you are not a top choice of theirs at this point. They aren't putting you in their top 5 either, you are basically damaged goods. Program directors talk, so you are going to be damaged good to all their PD friends too. You and your program are stuck with each other for 45 days nonetheless. The question is, who has more to lose in this situation? Hint: it's not the program. If they fire you on day 46, you are screwed. If you continue to do sketchy things and try to stealth yourself out of your program, you are also going to end up screwed.

Also, all your future co-residents are currently interns, not fourth year med students lolligagging around waiting for residency to start after graduation like last year. They're busy. If it bothers you so much you haven't heard from anyone, no one is stopping you from being the one to start some sort of communication.

NGL, this thread is some much needed entertainment. 👹

I see. Just to add, there's a thread here discussing similar issues, and the users here actually think problem residents get GOOD PD letters if they want to transfer. So maybe not all is lost.

[serious] Switching from surgery to anesthesia after placed on probation

 

[LunaOri]

I see. Just to add, there's a thread here discussing similar issues, and the users here actually think problem residents get GOOD PD letters if they want to transfer. So maybe not all is lost.

[serious] Switching from surgery to anesthesia after placed on probation

Haha no! Program directors don’t want to trash their own reputations by giving problem residents good letters.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Reddit doesn't seem a very serious place regarding that above thread. PDs don't need to fluff a bad resident up to get them to leave, they can just not renew their contract and the problem resident is gone.

I give that part a 3 out of 10.

Have you considered maintaining eye contact with your advanced program PD to establish dominance yet?

 

[GoSpursGo]

I understand that residency is different, but I don't have any allegiance to these people. I don't them anything outside the job requirements. I don't have to like them. And there nothing to like about them. I hate the place with a passion. Some people take this so personally, a random person online doesn't like their program and it's labeled as a calloused disregard

I've heard many negative things about the program name, location, reputation etc.

I think the reputation from what I heard is poor, in terms of teaching and research opportunities. A lot of people don't like the location either. I don't know a single person that had this place in their top 5. It's a backup for most people. No one is excited to go there. I haven't even heard from any of the residents there yet. By this time last year everyone was chatting at my current program

It's not just a couple people. It's lots of faculty
at my current program and former residents at that program. One of my faculty members at my current program said "oh man I would be upset as you if I ended up there for residency"

It doesn't really matter to me if you think this. Am I over exaggerating, probably. But most everyone I told in my current program had a visceral negative reaction to this place. I think 1-2 people had a positive reaction.

To add, if I matched at one of my top choices. Life would be so much easier. But because of the match my plans were turned upside down.

It’s ok to be upset with your match. But none of this matters anymore. This was the best you could do, because you were not the stellar applicant you believed you were. There is no reason to believe you can do better outside of the match and especially not given your history since the match.

I see. Just to add, there's a thread here discussing similar issues, and the users here actually think problem residents get GOOD PD letters if they want to transfer. So maybe not all is lost.

[serious] Switching from surgery to anesthesia after placed on probation

Skipping over the part where you're intentionally ignoring that most of the respondents in that thread actually say the opposite of what you're representing, that situation is completely apples and oranges to your situation. This person is trying to switch from a more competitive specialty to a less competitive specdialty and is coming from a highly regarded program. It is very easy for that person to come up with a story about how "I did well in med school and matched at a great program, but I've come to understand that my career goals more closely align with anesthesia than surgery." Anesthesia programs would happily take a stellar surgical applicant. You are trying to change programs in the same specialty and are coming from a poorly regarded program, meaning that by definition you were a marginal applicant for your field. Other than the programs that are close to your family, I do not see how you can make an argument to change programs. People do not transfer programs just because they don't like their match.

Finally, I really don't see why you're so focused on this idea of switching right now before you even start the program. Maybe it's as terrible as you think it will be, but maybe it's not. Even if it is, you mentioned above that you would ideally swap between PGY years once theoretically spots open up at other programs. So the time to even start looking for open spots won't be until the end of 2023/early 2024. There is literally nothing you can do about this right now. So just keep your head down, be the best resident you can be, and keep all options on the table.

 

[Dr.LeoSpaceman]

Even if it is, you mentioned above that you would ideally swap between PGY years once theoretically spots open up at other programs. So the time to even start looking for open spots won't be until the end of 2023/early 2024.

I think this is one of the best pieces of advice, and relevant to others who may read this in the future. Show up to the original program, prove you're a good resident, and then approach the PD about supporting a transfer if you're still unhappy. The best way to get the advanced PD to forget the previous transgression is to demonstrate that it was the exception, not the rule, about who you are.

 

[Qpworueury]

I think this is one of the best pieces of advice, and relevant to others who may read this in the future. Show up to the original program, prove you're a good resident, and then approach the PD about supporting a transfer if you're still unhappy. The best way to get the advanced PD to forget the previous transgression is to demonstrate that it was the exception, not the rule, about who you are.

Thank you! This is exactly what I was saying but for the first half of the thread everyone said, transfer bad transfer bad. I'm talking to my PD today and will update everyone on what they think

 

[smq123]

Thank you! This is exactly what I was saying but for the first half of the thread everyone said, transfer bad transfer bad. I'm talking to my PD today and will update everyone on what they think

This is not at all what you were saying.

 

[xffan624]

Thank you! This is exactly what I was saying but for the first half of the thread everyone said, transfer bad transfer bad. I'm talking to my PD today and will update everyone on what they think

Let's review the tape. You wanted to pursue a transfer without actually telling your PD you were leaving until everything was concluded. If a PD wanted to talk to your PD you would drop the transfer application. The timing was unclear based on your posts but you were willing to drop the incoming program whenever as you didn't seem to care about your fellow residents having to crosscover. Just to reiterate. That's still a horrible and not actually realistic idea.

The idea of starting at your incoming residency, doing well, keeping your nose clean and your mouth shut about how much you hate it there, and then later (say 6 months) after establishing some goodwill approaching your PD about transferring at the end of the PGY2 year if there's a spot that opens up and better fits your needs, is feasible (not guaranteed, but more realistic than your original plan). You still need to do the first part of this plan before getting to the second part.

 

[Qpworueury]

So I talked with PD.

She basically said she completely understood why I wouldn't want to end up there. She's also heard it has had a terrible reputation in her particular field. She does say that whole controversy makes things more difficult. I may experience some let's just say hesitation and reluctance with me because of it. But she's been incredibly happy with my performance here and really believes I can change people's mind as I've had a bright, positive attitude and good outlook on things. She understood people make mistakes

Ultimately, she recommended me transfer between PGY-2 and PGY-3 as that's when the most open spots occur and by then hopefully I would have smoothed things over. In regards to when to tell your PD, she says you have to tell them at some point but it's probably favorable to wait until you have something tangentible from your desired program.

 

[DO2015CA]

So I talked with PD.

She basically said she completely understood why I wouldn't want to end up there. She's also heard it has had a terrible reputation in her particular field. She does say that whole controversy makes things more difficult. I may experience some let's just say hesitation and reluctance with me because of it. But she's been incredibly happy with my performance here and really believes I can change people's mind as I've had a bright, positive attitude and good outlook on things. She understood people make mistakes

Ultimately, she recommended me transfer between PGY-2 and PGY-3 as that's when the most open spots occur and by then hopefully I would have smoothed things over. In regards to when to tell your PD, she says you have to tell them at some point but it's probably favorable to wait until you have something tangentible from your desired program.

Ok. End of thread. Good luck

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Agreed. This is a much more reasonable plan than where this thread started (I'm leaving after 45 days). I would still encourage you to consider your "Plan A" to be to complete your residency at this place, and Plan B is to transfer somewhere else. PGY-2 spots in fields do open up but they are not common. if this program has a terrible rep, it's possible that other programs will not be excited to consider you as a transfer due to concerns about training. In any case, moving from one program to another in the middle of training is very difficult -- you won't know the people, systems, culture, etc. Applying for fellowships (if that's an issue for you) can also be more challenging if you move from one program to another.

Best of luck.

 

[Apollyon]

It's amazing how the "PD" said exactly what the OP thought "she" would.

 

[smq123]

So I talked with PD.

She basically said she completely understood why I wouldn't want to end up there. She's also heard it has had a terrible reputation in her particular field.

So, she reportedly knows that your program is terrible because it has a bad reputation in an unrelated field? And she extrapolated that to mean that you shouldn't go there?

That doesn't sound sus at all.

 

[gutonc]

So, she reportedly knows that your program is terrible because it has a bad reputation in an unrelated field? And she extrapolated that to mean that you shouldn't go there?

That doesn't sound sus at all.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Remind me: 1 year. Next thread title: nonrenewal for mysterious reasons.

 

[Qpworueury]

So, she reportedly knows that your program is terrible because it has a bad reputation in an unrelated field? And she extrapolated that to mean that you shouldn't go there?

That doesn't sound sus at all.

She didn't say I shouldn't go there, just I understand your hesitation and why I'd be frustrated

 

[Qpworueury]

It's amazing how the "PD" said exactly what the OP thought "she" would.

It's basically in line with what all you said. Try hard, and think about transferring at the end of pgy-2 but recognize it's an uphill battle

So, she reportedly knows that your program is terrible because it has a bad reputation in an unrelated field? And she extrapolated that to mean that you shouldn't go there?

That doesn't sound sus at all.

In fairness several residents in my class has a viceral negative reaction whenever I told them about my advanced program. Like " yikes heard x, y and Z about that institution"

 

[guytakingboards]

It's basically in line with what all you said. Try hard, and think about transferring at the end of pgy-2 but recognize it's an uphill battle


In fairness several residents in my class has a viceral negative reaction whenever I told them about my advanced program. Like " yikes heard x, y and Z about that institution"

This “in fairness other people talk **** about my program” stuff is weird. It doesn’t move the needle for you at all. I dunno if it’s really that bad a program or if you’re mistaking everyone’s sympathy for righteous justification for your plans but….. it’s all moot.

Like so flipping what if they heard bad things about it. You could poll a million people in the field and even if they all agreed your program sucks you are in no different of a situation. My advice is stop talking about this topic with other people; it clearly only brings you down and/or enrages you.

 

[Dr.LeoSpaceman]

In fairness several residents in my class has a viceral negative reaction whenever I told them about my advanced program. Like " yikes heard x, y and Z about that institution"

If this mystery program has such a well-known reputation that everyone you talk to knows about it, you probably should have thought twice about ranking it.

 

[Qpworueury]

This “in fairness other people talk **** about my program” stuff is weird. It doesn’t move the needle for you at all. I dunno if it’s really that bad a program or if you’re mistaking everyone’s sympathy for righteous justification for your plans but….. it’s all moot.

Like so flipping what if they heard bad things about it. You could poll a million people in the field and even if they all agreed your program sucks you are in no different of a situation. My advice is stop talking about this topic with other people; it clearly only brings you down and/or enrages you.

I get asked daily about where I'm heading, so that's why it keeps coming up

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I get asked daily about where I'm heading, so that's why it keeps coming up

And do you just say where or do you make comments about where and how bad of a place it is and woe is you?

 

[Qpworueury]

And do you just say where or do you make comments about where and how bad of a place it is and woe is you?

I literally just say the name and then there's always that viceral negative reaction afterwards they have

 

[rokshana]

It doesn't really matter to me if you think this. Am I over exaggerating, probably. But most everyone I told in my current program had a visceral negative reaction to this place. I think 1-2 people had a positive reaction.

To add, if I matched at one of my top choices. Life would be so much easier. But because of the match my plans were turned upside down.

Well you would have matched at one of your top choices if you were a better candidate… but you were not wanted by your top choices… they had candidates that they wanted other than you… you matched at the place that was at your level…just because you can’t accept that you aren’t a top candidate is your issue.

 

[Qpworueury]

Well you would have matched at one of your top choices if you were a better candidate… but you were not wanted by your top choices… they had candidates that they wanted other than you… you matched at the place that was at your level…just because you can’t accept that you aren’t a top candidate is your issue.

I literally did everything right in medical school and matched at a excellent prelim. There's really nothing else I could have done quite frankly. I have never been able to figure out why I matched so poorly on my primary list

 

[LunaOri]

I literally did everything right in medical school and matched at a excellent prelim. There's really nothing else I could have done quite frankly. I have never been able to figure out why I matched so poorly on my primary list

And that, right there, is your problem: because we are getting a pretty good idea of the reason without having met you.
If you want to succeed from now on: be humble, be teachable, and focus on what you can do for others.

 

[j4pac]

OP, if you aren’t real…thanks for the entertainment. If you are…enjoy your life in medicine now, because it won’t last. You may have been able to slide through med school, but your professionalism concerns will be your undoing in residency. You really need to look in the mirror and get it figured out

 

[guytakingboards]

I literally did everything right in medical school and matched at a excellent prelim. There's really nothing else I could have done quite frankly. I have never been able to figure out why I matched so poorly on my primary list

I suspect several people know and likely told you why you matched so poorly. But you have one of the worst cases of selective hearing I've seen in a while.

As mentioned several times, you are probably going to have problems in residency and the workforce moving forward. A lot of it sounds like straight immaturity/lack of experience issues. It's pretty clear to those in this thread that you don't have the experience and insight to navigate these problems that keep popping up. And you don't have the humility to accept that you may be doing things wrong/other people are more knowledgeable.

My final advice: find a mentor in your next program. Someone who is experienced, trustworthy and most importantly someone you'll listen to. Someone like the PD in your current prelim program. If they're willing, use them as a sounding board for the issues that will inevitably arise. Good luck OP.

 

[Qpworueury]

And that, right there, is your problem: because we are getting a pretty good idea of the reason without having met you.
If you want to succeed from now on: be humble, be teachable, and focus on what you can do for others.

Let r

I suspect several people know and likely told you why you matched so poorly. But you have one of the worst cases of selective hearing I've seen in a while.

As mentioned several times, you are probably going to have problems in residency and the workforce moving forward. A lot of it sounds like straight immaturity/lack of experience issues. It's pretty clear to those in this thread that you don't have the experience and insight to navigate these problems that keep popping up. And you don't have the humility to accept that you may be doing things wrong/other people are more knowledgeable.

My final advice: find a mentor in your next program. Someone who is experienced, trustworthy and most importantly someone you'll listen to. Someone like the PD in your current prelim program. If they're willing, use them as a sounding board for the issues that will inevitably arise. Good luck OP.

Actually no one comes come up with reason why. It wasn't for behavioral issues that's for sure. I had zero professionalism issues all throughout med school.

 

[rokshana]

I literally did everything right in medical school and matched at an excellent prelim. There's really nothing else I could have done quite frankly. I have never been able to figure out why I matched so poorly on my primary list

Well the fact you have little insight is a big part of your problem.

 

[rokshana]

I literally did everything right in medical school and matched at a excellent prelim. There's really nothing else I could have done quite frankly. I have never been able to figure out why I matched so poorly on my primary list

Dude…matching a prelim spot doesn’t take much effort… programs want the spot filled and they don’t really care who gets it.

 

[Qpworueury]

Dude…matching a prelim spot doesn’t take much effort… programs want the spot filled and they don’t really care who gets it.

It was at a very desirable and competitive place. It's amazing you can fall on your rank list and people blame you

 

[Qpworueury]

Do transfers between the same speciality (PGY-2 to PGY-3) typically require 3 letters of recommendations? Can you just use your medical school ones?

 

[GoSpursGo]

Please post this in your already active thread. Closing this one

EDIT: @Qpworueury on further reflection I just decided to merge your threads. If you're trying to transfer then each prospective program will have their own process for obtaining references. But the most important reference is going to be the PD at your current advanced program, and if they require additional references you'll probably want to use other attendings from that same program. Nobody will care about what someone said about you in med school 2 years in the past.

 

[Qpworueury]

Please post this in your already active thread. Closing this one

EDIT: @Qpworueury on further reflection I just decided to merge your threads. If you're trying to transfer then each prospective program will have their own process for obtaining references. But the most important reference is going to be the PD at your current advanced program, and if they require additional references you'll probably want to use other attendings from that same program. Nobody will care about what someone said about you in med school 2 years in the past.

Thanks! I was just somewhat surprised I saw a place that required 3 letters of recommendation. How is that even possible for a transfer lol that's why I asked.