A question about the ACGME/AOA merge ?

[Nxmeless]

Will the requirements be the same for IMGs wishing to enroll in an Allopathic residency program in 2020 (after the merge) as they are now ?

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[Mad Jack]

Yes.

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

Will the requirements be the same for IMGs wishing to enroll in an Allopathic residency program in 2020 (after the merge) as they are now ?

Did you hear they would be different?

 

[Law2Doc]

Will the requirements be the same for IMGs wishing to enroll in an Allopathic residency program in 2020 (after the merge) as they are now ?

Requirements will be the same but you may find yourself further back in the line at places that subsequently regard DO grads differently (or have fewer concerns about the perception of ranking them as highly as allo grads) after the merger.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

Requirements will be the same but you may find yourself further back in the line at places that subsequently regard DO grads differently (or have fewer concerns about the perception of ranking them as highly as allo grads) after the merger.

uh oh.. you don't know what you just started....




(my friend chain so big that he look like the artiiiissttt).


excuse that last part (that song was on my mind lol) but seriously... this thread gonna turn into a ****show.

 

[Law2Doc]

uh oh.. you don't know what you just started....
(my friend chain so big that he look like the artiiiissttt).
excuse that last part (that song was on my mind lol) but seriously... this thread gonna turn into a ****show.

I just posted what everyone knows -- some allo programs presently favor allo applicants, but might not hold to that after the merger. And this may hurt IMGs. Not sure why that's controversial. And this was actually part of the DO motivation for the merger -- they feared the allo match was going to become US allo only once US numbers increased enough, and wanted to get in before that gate slammed shut.

 

[Dr. Death]

I just posted what everyone knows -- some allo programs presently favor allo applicants, but might not hold to that after the merger. And this may hurt IMGs. Not sure why that's controversial. And this was actually part of the DO motivation for the merger -- they feared the allo match was going to become US allo only once US numbers increased enough, and wanted to get in before that gate slammed shut.

I believe that there will be a squeeze on IMGs but I don't think it will come from PDs suddenly regarding DO students as equals to MD students. As many as 1/4 of DO residencies may close, and those DO students will be competing with and pushing out IMGs in Allo residencies.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

I just posted what everyone knows -- some allo programs presently favor allo applicants, but might not hold to that after the merger. And this may hurt IMGs. Not sure why that's controversial. And this was actually part of the DO motivation for the merger -- they feared the allo match was going to become US allo only once US numbers increased enough, and wanted to get in before that gate slammed shut.

It's just that SDN is a playground for the very sensitive folks that may not like what you're saying but hey... I have the same outlook/hopes as you do which leads to them coming in and then starting a whole argument and then it turns into a US DO VS IMG debate and yadda yadda yadda and thread gets locked. I just hope this thread doesn't turn into another one of those lol

 

[the argus]

I believe that there will be a squeeze on IMGs but I don't think it will come from PDs suddenly regarding DO students as equals to MD students. As many as 1/4 of DO residencies may close, and those DO students will be competing with and pushing out IMGs in Allo residencies.

Where are you getting this number?

I have a hard time believing that that many hospitals could lose their (comparatively) cheap resident workforce and there would be enough available physicians/midlevels/etc to fill those roles.

Certain programs may close, but that doesn't necessarily mean those positions would be lost. They could be folded into other programs and new programs could be opened.

EDIT: after looking at the numbers, only ~2,600 DOs went into AOA residencies this year, with still ~600 AOA residency positions still going unfilled every year. 1/4 of AOA positions could be lost (~800), and it would only be a couple hundred more than the number of unfilled AOA positions every year.

Even if 1/4 of the spots that were actually filled were lost, you would only be looking at ~650 positions, which would be <10% of the >6,500 IMGs that currently place into ACGME positions every year.

 

[Law2Doc]

Where are you getting this number?

I have a hard time believing that that many hospitals could lose their (comparatively) cheap resident workforce and there would be enough available physicians/midlevels/etc to fill those roles.

Certain programs may close, but that doesn't necessarily mean those positions would be lost. They could be folded into other programs and new programs could be opened.

I doubt it will be that many but quite a few places would need a lot of expensive changes to meet some of the ACGME requirements and might find the cheap resident savings don't adequately offset the additional costs of compliance.

 

[FiveOClock]

Where are you getting this number?

I have a hard time believing that that many hospitals could lose their (comparatively) cheap resident workforce and there would be enough available physicians/midlevels/etc to fill those roles.

Certain programs may close, but that doesn't necessarily mean those positions would be lost. They could be folded into other programs and new programs could be opened.

EDIT: after looking at the numbers, only ~2,600 DOs went into AOA residencies this year, with still ~600 AOA residency positions still going unfilled every year. 1/4 of AOA positions could be lost (~800), and it would only be a couple hundred more than the number of unfilled AOA positions every year.

Even if 1/4 of the spots that were actually filled were lost, you would only be looking at ~650 positions, which would be <10% of the >6,500 IMGs that currently place into ACGME positions every year.

I expect many specialty programs will close but there aren't too many DO programs for those anyway. I doubt that all the surgical specialities, ophtho, derm, etc DO programs will be up to scratch compared to the MD programs. They are just too specialized.

As for IMGs, there will still be less competitive residencies for you all to apply. It certainly will not help to be competing against top and mid tier DO applicants. DO applicants will probably apply to more primary care positions after some DO programs shut down so those may be more difficult to match yet and still.

 

[Commer_Knocker]

But my Ross MD is still better than your DO. Period.

 

[Suit]

But my Ross MD is still better than your DO. Period.

No. Just no.

 

[Commer_Knocker]

No. Just no.

It was sarcasm, my good fellow.

 

[the argus]

It was sarcasm, my good fellow.

Everyone knows DOs don't get sarcasm.

 

[cbrons]

As many as 1/4 of DO residencies may close

Curious, where did you obtain that estimate? Seems like a lot.

Sent from my SM-N910P using SDN mobile

 

[Suit]

Everyone knows DOs don't get sarcasm.

Good thing I'm in an MD school. I'm just not a big fan of putting down other degrees/professions. Egos need to go

Funny post tho

 

[hallowmann]

Where are you getting this number?

I have a hard time believing that that many hospitals could lose their (comparatively) cheap resident workforce and there would be enough available physicians/midlevels/etc to fill those roles.

Certain programs may close, but that doesn't necessarily mean those positions would be lost. They could be folded into other programs and new programs could be opened.

EDIT: after looking at the numbers, only ~2,600 DOs went into AOA residencies this year, with still ~600 AOA residency positions still going unfilled every year. 1/4 of AOA positions could be lost (~800), and it would only be a couple hundred more than the number of unfilled AOA positions every year.

Even if 1/4 of the spots that were actually filled were lost, you would only be looking at ~650 positions, which would be <10% of the >6,500 IMGs that currently place into ACGME positions every year.

Post scramble only about 100-150 AOA spots were left open. Some will close certainly, but I highly doubt 1/4 will close. 28% have already applied in just 1 yr of the 5 yr transition. Also, we should remember that the vast majority of positions are in FM, IM, and EM on the DO side (those 3 alone comprise ~2/3 of all AOA spots). Most of those will survive. Even if a lot of the surgical specialties close it won't be a significant drop in the actual raw spot numbers.