A Student Adcom's Thoughts on MCAT Scores

[QofQuimica]

I got a PM asking me about how adcoms use MCAT scores, so I figured I'd post my answer here since some of the rest of you might also want to read it. Before I start, please read this post with the caveat that I am one single adcom at one single medical school. Other medical schools do things differently, and even at my school, other adcoms have different opinions than I do. Also, in the interest of disclosure, this is now my fourth year of being a student adcom, and I have read and voted on several hundred apps. Even so, you should feel free to take my thoughts for what you think they're worth. On that note, let's begin.

My gentle PM writer asked how much MCAT scores really matter to the adcom. My answer to this would be that if your score is too low, it matters a lot. What is too low? I would define the cut point as being around 27-28. Below a 27, you are much more likely to be screened out for your score. On the other hand, if you have a 30 or better, your MCAT score is not likely to be an issue. If you have a 35 or better, you are among the most elite applicants in terms of MCAT scores. Basically, if you don't get into medical school with a 35+ MCAT, it's you, not us.

Related question: how impressed is the adcom with a 40+ MCAT? This varies tremendously. Personally, it doesn't affect my evaluation at all if person A has a 35 and person B has a 40. Once you get to the high 30s, you reach a point where doing better on the MCAT gives diminishing returns IMO. However, there are other members of my school's adcom who are more stats-oriented and like seeing applicants with very high scores.

Next question: is it true that multiple retakes of the MCAT will hurt you? My answer to this would be that it depends. My school takes all MCAT scores into consideration, not just the most recent score. If you retake and improve significantly (which I would define as a change of 3+ points), it's possible that you will be asked about your improvement during an interview, but yes, that will help you, especially if your retake score is 30+. If you retake and go down, yes, that will work to your disadvantage, especially if it's a significant drop. If you retake and score the same (or within 1-2 points), it depends. Personally, I do tend to look at this as being an unwise decision by the applicant, especially if the first score was already 30+. However, it's not an automatic dealbreaker. I think my position is probably pretty middle-of-the-road when it comes to this--some adcoms care more, and others don't care.

Next question: what do we think about a person with a high MCAT and a low GPA? Again, it depends on why the GPA is low. If the person is a nontrad with poor grades from several years ago and they have since done well in a post bac (which I define as a 3.8+ GPA), then the overall GPA won't matter to me as much even if it's still fairly low compared to our average. If the student is a trad who has shown a trend of improvement during college (i.e., a bad freshman year and then a strong sophomore and especially junior year), again, that will make the overall GPA matter less to me. But if the grades are consistently low, and especially if the grades have gone down over time as the student started taking harder science courses, that will be a red flag to me. Med school science classes tend to be as rigorous if not more rigorous than college classes, so I don't want to see people's grades going down when the going gets tough, even if their MCAT score is high.

Last question: do MCAT scores really predict board scores? They are correlated, but it's not an extremely strong correlation. The USMLE is a different kind of test than the MCAT is, much more information based. The people who do the best on Step 1 are people who work hard during their preclinical years and study hard for the test.

Hope this helps, and best of luck to you all.

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[Dharma]

Killer post! Thank you so much for sharing this.

 

[orion333]

Thank Q. A couple follow-up questions:

1. Which qualities might offset a sub-27 MCAT at your school? High grades? Non-academic accomplishments? URM status? Can you give an example of a sub-27 applicant who was accepted? Or should anyone scoring below 27 just give up on getting into your school?

2. Are schools that claim they have no "absolute cutoff" in terms of MCAT, often worded as "we do not screen by MCAT scores," being honest? I notice that many schools that say this, such as Einstein, are actually very selective overall and tend to have higher MCAT averages, so what gives?

3. Since the correlation between MCAT scores and USMLE pass rates is not particularly strong, why weight the MCAT so heavily in the admissions process? Please explain.

 

[QofQuimica]

1. Which qualities might offset a sub-27 MCAT at your school? High grades? Non-academic accomplishments? URM status? Can you give an example of a sub-27 applicant who was accepted? Or should anyone scoring below 27 just give up on getting into your school?

Without seeing the rest of their app, I wouldn't ever say that someone shouldn't even try applying, although there is no doubt that a person with scores in the lower 20s or less would have a very tough time getting an interview here. There are just too many applicants who are all around stellar: good grades, good MCAT, good ECs, and so on. My guess is that there would have to be some kind of exceptional circumstances, and it would be more along the lines of the person being seriously disadvantaged in some way.

2. Are schools that claim they have no "absolute cutoff" in terms of MCAT, often worded as "we do not screen by MCAT scores," being honest? I notice that many schools that say this, such as Einstein, are actually very selective overall and tend to have higher MCAT averages, so what gives?

I think the confusion here is because people misunderstand what it means when a school says they do not screen by MCAT scores (i.e., they do not have a cutoff MCAT score). Not having a cutoff does *not* mean that MCAT score is not considered. It means that having a certain MCAT score does not automatically knock you out of the running.

My school is one of the ones that does not have an MCAT score cutoff. What this means is, we do not have a strict filter where if your score is below a certain number, you are automatically rejected. The screening committee will score each application holistically when deciding whether to invite the applicant for an interview. However, an applicant with a low MCAT score is more likely to be scored low in terms of academic readiness for medical school, and therefore not be invited for an interview. So you may still have a low chance of getting an interview, but it's a nonzero chance.

In contrast, there are some schools that *do* use a strict MCAT cutoff to filter out applicants. At a school with a cutoff, you have zero chance of getting an interview if you fall below the cutoff. So if a school uses 27 as their cutoff, that means you will be rejected automatically if you have a 26. Whereas, at my school, your app will still be screened, even with a 26. It doesn't mean you'll get an invite, but it does mean that some human eyes will see your app.

3. Since the correlation between MCAT scores and USMLE pass rates is not particularly strong, why weight the MCAT so heavily in the admissions process? Please explain.

I'm not sure I agree that the MCAT score is weighted as heavily as many premeds think it is, actually. Again, having a really low score will hurt you, no doubt about that. But so will having very low grades, and so will having no clinical experience, and so on and so forth. The adcom wants the whole package, not people who are lopsidedly good in a few areas but subpar in others.

Medical school is rigorous, and the adcom needs to choose people who are academically strong enough to make it through both the curriculum and the USMLE. Even though the correlation between MCAT scores and Step 1 scores is not super strong, there *is* some correlation between how people score on the two tests, especially if they are poor test-takers. I know a lot of you feel that the MCAT is a challenging test, and up to this point, it may well be the most challenging test you've ever taken. But Step 1 is almost universally harder for most people, and even though Step 1 doesn't predict how good of a physician you'll be very well, it's a necessary hoop to jump through if you want to be licensed as a physician in this country.

So, until the focus of the medical certifying process changes (and there are changes being planned for the future), there has to be some selection for students who are at least decent at taking standardized tests like the MCAT. It does us no good to train an otherwise fabulous physician who never gets licensed because s/he can't pass the boards.

 

[orion333]

OK, this is helpful. Thanks for your super-thoughtful and detailed reply. (I sure hope my MCAT is high enough )

 

[deleted74029]

Postbaccs and smps are often times only a year or two. For applicants enrolled in these, do you guys ever wait for the fall semester grades of the applicants application year for a little more perspective?

I'm in what's pretty much considered a glorified smp (at least by my state school). I never studied much at all and had to get acclimated quickly, thus my spring grades are considerably higher than my fall grades. Do you guys ever see situations like this and wait for the fall grades to see if the upward trend continues? This is assuming MCAT and extracurriculars are competitive.

Sorry I know this wasn't really an mcat question, but I thought I'd just take the opportunity to ask.

 

[QofQuimica]

Postbaccs and smps are often times only a year or two. For applicants enrolled in these, do you guys ever wait for the fall semester grades of the applicants application year for a little more perspective?

I'm in what's pretty much considered a glorified smp (at least by my state school). I never studied much at all and had to get acclimated quickly, thus my spring grades are considerably higher than my fall grades. Do you guys ever see situations like this and wait for the fall grades to see if the upward trend continues? This is assuming MCAT and extracurriculars are competitive.

Sorry I know this wasn't really an mcat question, but I thought I'd just take the opportunity to ask.

This is going to be entirely school-dependent. At my school, the admissions office does accept updates of grades or ECs from applicants throughout the app season. I'd say that if a med school has put you on pre-interview hold, it can't hurt to send an update of your fall grades to see if it would convince them to give you an invite. Likewise if you're on post-interview hold and hoping to turn it into an acceptance. Of course, you want to make sure those fall grades are as close to all As as you can get.

 

[sandys]

Next question: what do we think about a person with a high MCAT and a low GPA? Again, it depends on why the GPA is low.

Thank you so much for all these answers! May I ask what GPA would consider "low," especially if accompanied by decent MCAT scores (30+)? Is there a cutoff for GPA the same way there's a cutoff for MCAT (27-28)? :]

 

[LostInStudy]

Posts and threads like these are the reason that Q is my favorite member on SDN ever.

Great post. Very informative.

-LIS

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

Posts and threads like these are the reason that Q is my favorite member on SDN ever.

Great post. Very informative.

-LIS

That, and the fact that she got like a 46 on the MCAT, means I pretty much listen to what she says Although, I wonder if she's less impressed by the 40+'ers than your average adcom member.

 

[LostInStudy]

Well, I'm actually of the same school of thought as Q on high scorers. I myself consider above a 35 to be an amazing score and all the same because I was in that range myself and know how variable it is and the only difference between a 38 and 43 is how the wind blows that day. It's all very impressive but at the end of the day it's just a single piece of a very large very complex pie.

Hope this clarifies,

-LIS

 

[QofQuimica]

Thank you so much for all these answers! May I ask what GPA would consider "low," especially if accompanied by decent MCAT scores (30+)? Is there a cutoff for GPA the same way there's a cutoff for MCAT (27-28)? :]

I'm sure each school does things differently. My school does not use GPA cutoffs just like we don't use MCAT cutoffs. But again, people with lower GPAs are more likely to be scored as not adequately prepared for a medical school curriculum.

The average GPA for allo matriculants is around a 3.6-3.7, which is below the average for many of the popular private schools that draw applicants from around the country. But in general for allo apps, I'd say that if you're below the 3.3-3.4 range, your GPA is low enough that it could affect your app at many schools. If you're below a 3.0, your GPA is very low and you will probably need to do some post bac coursework to be considered at many schools. A 40 MCAT ain't gonna make up for a 2.8 GPA.

That, and the fact that she got like a 46 on the MCAT, means I pretty much listen to what she says Although, I wonder if she's less impressed by the 40+'ers than your average adcom member.

I suppose if we try to psychoanalyze me, my score could very well affect how I see someone with a 40. I mean, if that's really the best they could do....

All kidding aside, I'd say it's more of a difference in philosophy. I think younger adcoms, and student adcoms in particular, tend to put less emphasis on the MCAT and stats in general, because we're thinking more in terms of fit and considering a candidate holistically. When I interview someone, I'm trying to get a feel for whether I would want to work with this person on the wards. Are they a team player? Can they be a leader without dominating? That kind of thing. No matter how high their stats are, I won't vote to accept someone that I wouldn't want to have to work with. It's not very nice to subject the incoming first years to a known tool, right?

Whereas, I think some of the faculty adcoms, particularly the more senior people, may approach admissions decisions in a more black and white way. They may like the lack of ambiguity that using stats provides. I mean, it's very easy to rank candidates by MCAT scores. But it's not very easy to rank candidates based on something like how well they get along with others. Still, once the student gets here, no one will know about their MCAT score. But people *will* notice if that student is unprofessional and doesn't work well with others. So ultimately, I think fit is a much more important criterion than stats are for predicting how well a student will do, assuming that a basic level of academic competency is met. When medical students end up leaving med school involuntarily, it is almost always due to professionalism issues, *not* because they can't hack the work.

 

[Gara]

Thank you for all of the input

I hope I'm not going too far off topic here but I was hoping I could seek your opinion. I was wondering how much you think a high MCAT score (>35) and high GPA (>3.85) would do to offset a lack of clinical experience. Let's say this "friend" of mine has a lot of work(pharmacy tech) and volunteer experience(mental health) but little actual experience with physicians.

I realize the numbers would get the applicant in the door but would they also help down the line if they were good enough?

Let's also say this "friend" has started more clinical volunteering having realized the error of his ways but has accumulated little to date.

Thanks

 

[randomb]

May I ask what the average MCAT of your institution is around? Or is that kind of rude?

 

[LostInStudy]

37-38 I think.

Hope this helps,

-LIS

 

[QofQuimica]

Thank you for all of the input

I hope I'm not going too far off topic here but I was hoping I could seek your opinion. I was wondering how much you think a high MCAT score (>35) and high GPA (>3.85) would do to offset a lack of clinical experience. Let's say this "friend" of mine has a lot of work(pharmacy tech) and volunteer experience(mental health) but little actual experience with physicians.

I realize the numbers would get the applicant in the door but would they also help down the line if they were good enough?

Let's also say this "friend" has started more clinical volunteering having realized the error of his ways but has accumulated little to date.

Thanks

Again, every school does things differently. At my school, clinical exposure of some kind is considered to be a mandatory prereq, just like taking a year of biology or a year of physics. I mean, how do you plan to convince yourself, let alone an adcom, that you want to be a physician if you have no experience with what physicians do? So, your, ahem, friend is smart to be getting clinical experience, and if said friend is put on pre-interview hold, it is worth sending some updates about the new clinical EC. It is also worth bringing up this new EC at interviews. In addition, I would suggest highlighting the mental health volunteering on his app, because that would certainly qualify as clinical exposure, even if it's not directly working with a physician.

May I ask what the average MCAT of your institution is around? Or is that kind of rude?

It's in the 34-35 range. No, it's not rude to ask--you can look up this info for every school in the country using the MSAR, which is put out by the AAMC every spring. If you don't already have a copy, you should see about getting your hands on one.

 

[IDoctor23]

Next question: is it true that multiple retakes of the MCAT will hurt you? My answer to this would be that it depends. My school takes all MCAT scores into consideration, not just the most recent score. If you retake and improve significantly (which I would define as a change of 3+ points), it's possible that you will be asked about your improvement during an interview, but yes, that will help you, especially if your retake score is 30+. If you retake and go down, yes, that will work to your disadvantage, especially if it's a significant drop. If you retake and score the same (or within 1-2 points), it depends. Personally, I do tend to look at this as being an unwise decision by the applicant, especially if the first score was already 30+. However, it's not an automatic dealbreaker. I think my position is probably pretty middle-of-the-road when it comes to this--some adcoms care more, and others don't care.

Hope this helps, and best of luck to you all.

Hey,

I had a question regarding your response to this question. Because I just recently finished another MCAT yesterday and due to my lack again of finishing the exam completely early August, I am not expecting a super higher score (30+), but I am hoping that I scored 3 points higher than my previous write...If I decide to retake the exam again and do make 30+...Although it took me multiple multiple times to achieve this goal but each time my score increased, do you believe that is ok? Because I know you said multiple retakes care beneficial if you score higher, but I don't know if that would be the case for 3rd-4th time...

Thanks for starting this thread; it was very helpful...And thank you for any advice that you can give...

 

[QofQuimica]

Hey,

I had a question regarding your response to this question. Because I just recently finished another MCAT yesterday and due to my lack again of finishing the exam completely early August, I am not expecting a super higher score (30+), but I am hoping that I scored 3 points higher than my previous write...If I decide to retake the exam again and do make 30+...Although it took me multiple multiple times to achieve this goal but each time my score increased, do you believe that is ok? Because I know you said multiple retakes care beneficial if you score higher, but I don't know if that would be the case for 3rd-4th time...

Thanks for starting this thread; it was very helpful...And thank you for any advice that you can give...

I wouldn't even try to give my opinion on this question without knowing what the rest of your story is, much less speak for other adcoms. Again, my experience is that some members of my school's adcom will ding people for multiple retakes, and others don't care as much. Speaking for myself, no, it's not ideal to have multiple retakes. But the reason why an applicant has multiple retakes would matter to me, as would the trend in scores.

 

[LostInStudy]

Again, every school does things differently. At my school, clinical exposure of some kind is considered to be a mandatory prereq, just like taking a year of biology or a year of physics. I mean, how do you plan to convince yourself, let alone an adcom, that you want to be a physician if you have no experience with what physicians do? So, your, ahem, friend is smart to be getting clinical experience, and if said friend is put on pre-interview hold, it is worth sending some updates about the new clinical EC. It is also worth bringing up this new EC at interviews. In addition, I would suggest highlighting the mental health volunteering on his app, because that would certainly qualify as clinical exposure, even if it's not directly working with a physician.


It's in the 34-35 range. No, it's not rude to ask--you can look up this info for every school in the country using the MSAR, which is put out by the AAMC every spring. If you don't already have a copy, you should see about getting your hands on one.

Is that true Q? The average gpa for marticulating studients at WashU is only 34-35? Are you sure, I always thought it was higher.

Might be wrong though.

-LIS

 

[QofQuimica]

Is that true Q? The average gpa for marticulating studients at WashU is only 34-35? Are you sure, I always thought it was higher.

Might be wrong though.

-LIS

You're not wrong about Wash U. You're wrong about me.

 

[LostInStudy]

LOL, oohhh it makes sense now. I always thought you took your superstar self to a superstar school like WashU.

Enlightened,

-LIS

 

[QofQuimica]

I'm bumping this thread for the noobs, and also because I got a PM from a nontrad applicant asking a question that I thought others might want to read about as well.

The question: do medical schools consider old MCAT scores that have expired (more than three years old) along with the new unexpired score? Like everything, the older your "old" scores are, the less they will matter. No one is going to judge you on a score that is a decade old, although the old score *will* still show up in the MCAT section of your AMCAS. Why, I don't know. But we can see the score from any MCAT you have ever taken, even if it was a decade ago. However, even if your expired score is "only" four years old, it's not worth worrying about. There isn't anything you can do about it at this point anyway. So your priority should be making sure that you do well on the most recent MCAT (the one that isn't expired).

I have personal experience with this question on both sides of the fence, since I had a nine year old MCAT score along with my retake when I applied for medical school. My new score was nine points higher, so I did get asked about it by a few interviewers. But it was more an issue of their personal interest--they mainly just wanted to know how I managed to increase my score that much. One interviewer also asked me if I could give some tips for his son.

 

[Bayonetwork]

QQ, thanks for putting together all this valuable info!

Quick question about GPA, I know the avg. science GPA is 3.6 for 2010. Is there any noticeable difference in your eyes to the applicant with a 3.6 vs a 3.7 sGPA? Is it an advantage or would either GPA just be considered as "good"?

As far as this line of reasoning goes, how do you come up with an overall "ranking" for an individual applicant? Ex. if their EC's are good, good GPA , good MCAT, PS, etc. do you just check all those off and base the decision on the interview? The general consensus is that if you get an interview then your good on paper...does that sound fair?

 

[Scotty knows]

So say theoretically that someone gets, oh I don't know, a 24 on the MCAT. They didn't study at all (and won't tell you this if you ask because you will think that they are immature and you will red flaggy them). But now a year and a half goes by and magically said candidate above hits a 36 (yeah they studied their but off this time). What happens? Obviously you are probably (maybe?) going to ask about this in the interview (hopefully said student has a good story or is very attractive), but how do admcoms generally view this. I'm not sure if this is common or not. Obviously the student can perform to a high level, but are you still going to judge them on a bad previous day?

Also, a little unrelated but don't you just put our numbers into a handy dandy calculator and give us a number...that's all we are in the end right? The adcoms at my brother's institution do this, you get a numero based on MCAT/GPA and then another based on the interview and another on your ECs. Then they vote on said applicant, using numero guidelines as an "aid". So in a way, once you break a certain MCAT score (along with GPA) doesn't it not matter anymore because you made it past that hurdle. I'm guessing that the formula at your school (WashU??) is 3.7+/34+, put in calculator, if scholar passes the computadora's test you pass them on....am I wrong here?

 

[integralx2]

Do you guys consider what the applicants major is ? Even Lets say there a little below the average (3.5GPA for instance) but completed a more rigorous major, which is VERY comparable I would think to medical school ? When screening do you guys become more curious with people who apply from a different background then lets say your traditional biology/chemistry background?

Thanks .

 

[QofQuimica]

Quick question about GPA, I know the avg. science GPA is 3.6 for 2010. Is there any noticeable difference in your eyes to the applicant with a 3.6 vs a 3.7 sGPA? Is it an advantage or would either GPA just be considered as "good"?

Obviously, the higher your GPA is, the better, but I really can't answer that question without knowing the entire context of your situation. For example, a 3.6 GPA from a disadvantaged applicant is not the same to me as a 3.6 GPA from an applicant who has an upper middle class background. Likewise, a 3.6 GPA showing an upward trend over time would not be the same to me as a 3.6 GPA showing a downward trend. But all else being equal, no, I wouldn't consider these two particular GPAs that are 1/10 of a point apart to be a valuable deciding factor.

As far as this line of reasoning goes, how do you come up with an overall "ranking" for an individual applicant? Ex. if their EC's are good, good GPA , good MCAT, PS, etc. do you just check all those off and base the decision on the interview? The general consensus is that if you get an interview then your good on paper...does that sound fair?

Each school is going to have their own system for deciding whom to interview. At my school, we are looking for evidence of general applicant qualities rather than having a checkbox for concrete items. Our screening process considers several factors in a holistic manner (i.e., looking at the entire app and scoring the applicant in each area). Some of these factors include academic readiness for medical school; commitment to a medical career; maturity and ability to handle stress; interpersonal skills; professionalism; intellectual curiosity; and others. Except for academic readiness, evaluation of most of these factors inherently requires a significant amount of subjectivity. The fact that we use this system also explains why there are no specific required ECs. How I demonstrated my maturity or my commitment to medicine when I applied is likely very different than how you will demonstrate yours when you apply.

I would agree that if you get an interview, your credentials are competitive enough on paper. That doesn't necessarily mean that everyone who gets an invite is on equal footing. However, we wouldn't waste your time (or ours) interviewing you unless we thought there was a chance you might ultimately matriculate here.

 

[QofQuimica]

So say theoretically that someone gets, oh I don't know, a 24 on the MCAT. They didn't study at all (and won't tell you this if you ask because you will think that they are immature and you will red flaggy them). But now a year and a half goes by and magically said candidate above hits a 36 (yeah they studied their but off this time). What happens? Obviously you are probably (maybe?) going to ask about this in the interview (hopefully said student has a good story or is very attractive), but how do admcoms generally view this. I'm not sure if this is common or not. Obviously the student can perform to a high level, but are you still going to judge them on a bad previous day?

First, I'd rather you not tell me what I'd think if I asked the interviewee a question X and they gave me an answer Y. I'm perfectly capable of coming to my own conclusions.

Second, yes, the applicant probably would get asked about it, if only because a 12 point jump in MCAT score is not terribly common. Statistically, the vast majority of re-takers score within a few points of their previous score, so it's interesting when you see someone who is a statistical anomaly. If it weren't interesting, why would so many of you be asking questions like how many people ever scored a 45 on the MCAT?

As for whether the 24 would be held against the applicant, again, it depends on the school and how they use MCAT scores. At my school, no, we would not automatically exclude an applicant with a 24 first MCAT who got a 36 on their retake. It's possible that someone on the adcom might ask the interviewers why the applicant did so poorly the first time, but we would consider the 36 to be their "true" score.

Also, a little unrelated but don't you just put our numbers into a handy dandy calculator and give us a number...that's all we are in the end right? The adcoms at my brother's institution do this, you get a numero based on MCAT/GPA and then another based on the interview and another on your ECs. Then they vote on said applicant, using numero guidelines as an "aid". So in a way, once you break a certain MCAT score (along with GPA) doesn't it not matter anymore because you made it past that hurdle. I'm guessing that the formula at your school (WashU??) is 3.7+/34+, put in calculator, if scholar passes the computadora's test you pass them on....am I wrong here?

Yes, you're wrong here. See my post above this one concerning how we screen candidates.

 

[QofQuimica]

Do you guys consider what the applicants major is ? Even Lets say there a little below the average (3.5GPA for instance) but completed a more rigorous major, which is VERY comparable I would think to medical school ? When screening do you guys become more curious with people who apply from a different background then lets say your traditional biology/chemistry background?

Some adcoms care about major, and some don't. My personal opinion is that major is completely irrelevant as long as the student did well. I've heard the arguments about how hard it is to get a high GPA in engineering, for example. But I would argue that it's no easier for an English major to get a high GPA in their science classes, where they're competing with science majors who have a lot more background in those subjects. It's kind of a pointless debate anyway, because almost everyone thinks that whatever they did was "rigorous." And who is going to be the objective arbiter of whether the pass/fail liberal arts college I attended is more or less rigorous than whatever program you're doing is?

 

[liveoak]

my question: how do you feel about the mcat? what specifically does it tell about the candidate?

 

[QofQuimica]

my question: how do you feel about the mcat? what specifically does it tell about the candidate?

MCAT scores give some information about the candidate's academic readiness for medical school. I view the MCAT as a necessary hoop to jump through if you want to go to medical school; a reasonable score is necessary but not sufficient for medical school admission. The biggest concern about applicants with lower MCAT scores (especially multiple low scores) is whether they will be able to pass the medical boards (USMLE). You could be the greatest physician on Planet Earth, but if you don't pass the boards, you can't be licensed to practice in this country.

 

[ilovemcat]

I know this is off-topic, but I'm curious... does QofQuimica stand for Queen of Chemistry?

 

[Bayonetwork]

How do you distinguish between science majors who likely took more than 2 science classes at once per semester vs. a non-science major who took say 2 science classes with labs alongside their non-science major classes per semester?

Then as a whole, how do you view the non-science major who has only completed the pre-req science courses or maybe one or two more vs the science major who has had many more science classes?

Obviously non-science majors are just as successful as science majors in med school as well as those who only completed the pre-reqs vs those who took more science.

Thanks for all the help your advice is very much appreciated!

 

[NinjaMed]

I know this is off-topic, but I'm curious... does QofQuimica stand for Queen of Chemistry?

Boron of Chemistry?

 

[sharmi]

Q - How do you look at someone with multiple non-expired MCAT scores?
Say something like a high 20's, a low 30's and mid-high 30's.
What if they were pretty consistant in the sciences, but needed to improve on their verbal score?

I, for one, just retook the mcat to overcome a low verbal even though my science scores were very good.

 

[QofQuimica]

I know this is off-topic, but I'm curious... does QofQuimica stand for Queen of Chemistry?

No. See below.

 

[QofQuimica]

How do you distinguish between science majors who likely took more than 2 science classes at once per semester vs. a non-science major who took say 2 science classes with labs alongside their non-science major classes per semester?

Then as a whole, how do you view the non-science major who has only completed the pre-req science courses or maybe one or two more vs the science major who has had many more science classes?

Obviously non-science majors are just as successful as science majors in med school as well as those who only completed the pre-reqs vs those who took more science.

Thanks for all the help your advice is very much appreciated!

Again, as long as you get good grades, it doesn't really matter what your major is.

 

[QofQuimica]

Q - How do you look at someone with multiple non-expired MCAT scores?
Say something like a high 20's, a low 30's and mid-high 30's.
What if they were pretty consistant in the sciences, but needed to improve on their verbal score?

I, for one, just retook the mcat to overcome a low verbal even though my science scores were very good.

As long as your scores improved, which it sounds like they did, it probably wouldn't be an issue at my school. What's not good is if you retake and go down, especially if you already had a decent score to start with. Again, though, other schools do things differently. Also, I'd be prepared to explain what you did to improve your VR, just in case an interviewer asks.

 

[ridethecliche]

No. See below.

This leads me to ask if you are a meat popsicle.

 

[Bayonetwork]

Again, as long as you get good grades, it doesn't really matter what your major is.

Could you elaborate on work load? How big of a factor is it for someone who took 12 credits vs someone who took 18?

Or do you just not go into that much depth with it...

 

[QofQuimica]

Could you elaborate on work load? How big of a factor is it for someone who took 12 credits vs someone who took 18?

Or do you just not go into that much depth with it...

It would depend on the context. Such as, did you graduate in four years? That would be possible if you took summer classes too, and 12 credits per semester is a full load for people who go to school year-round. Did you take fewer credits and spend longer in college because you were working? No one is going to penalize you for having to work to put yourself through school, especially if you're from a disadvantaged background and/or supporting a family. How did you do in the classes? No matter how many credits you take per semester, the most important thing is that you do well. Were you spending many hours per day playing WoW and smoking pot? Maybe not the greatest use of your time. You get the picture.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

This leads me to ask if you are a meat popsicle.

That's a solid The Fifth Element reference, my friend.

 

[RokKidA]

For you personally, how would you consider the competitiveness of an applicant with a lower than avg. GPA and MCAT score who excelled in an SMP?

Would you say that their performance in the SMP would have a greater impact in your decision than their ugGPA/MCAT?

 

[Scotty knows]

Will you become my life coach? I'm not sure what the going rate is these days....

 

[apumic]

Q, I have a student I am working w/ who has a mediocre MCAT VR (8 w/ 11s in the sciences) but a stellar GRE VR (a 680, which is around the 96th percentile or similar to a 13 on the MCAT VR). For someone like that, would it be helpful, perhaps, to include the GRE score in the student's application to show it was likely a fluke?

 

[jissho]

Q, I have a student I am working w/ who has a mediocre MCAT VR (8 w/ 11s in the sciences) but a stellar GRE VR (a 680, which is around the 96th percentile or similar to a 13 on the MCAT VR). For someone like that, would it be helpful, perhaps, to include the GRE score in the student's application to show it was likely a fluke?

I took the GRE back in 2007 (I know it has changed since then) and did well. Now, I am having a hard time with the MCAT verbal reasoning. The GRE verbal is a joke compared to MCAT verbal.

 

[skiing]

How would you consider an applicant with ups and downs in the GPA? Freshman year - senior year GPA has been for me 3.65/3.9/3.5/3.8.

What happened was I wasn't used to the testing/studying style freshman year, but I figured it out sophomore year. Junior year hit, and all the testing styles changed (multiple choice to short answer) and it took me a bit of time to figure it out, hence the drop and then rise again my senior year.

Also, how would you look at W's?

When you say something (like grades dropping throughout college) is a red flag, does that mean "I just throw them out" or "I get scared and look at other parts of the application for redemption" or just vaguely "It lowers their overall likelihood of being admitted/ puts them lower on the totem pole?" What does a "red flag" even mean, and how does it play into the decision for admission directly?

 

[BHaus9]

Q, I have a student I am working w/ who has a mediocre MCAT VR (8 w/ 11s in the sciences) but a stellar GRE VR (a 680, which is around the 96th percentile or similar to a 13 on the MCAT VR). For someone like that, would it be helpful, perhaps, to include the GRE score in the student's application to show it was likely a fluke?

Ah, yes, valid question. I outperformed myself on the GRE and wondering if it would be in the least bit beneficial to include my score if I'm not applying to any MD/PhD programs.

 

[QofQuimica]

For you personally, how would you consider the competitiveness of an applicant with a lower than avg. GPA and MCAT score who excelled in an SMP?

Would you say that their performance in the SMP would have a greater impact in your decision than their ugGPA/MCAT?

Please see my previous post about GPA trends.

 

[QofQuimica]

Q, I have a student I am working w/ who has a mediocre MCAT VR (8 w/ 11s in the sciences) but a stellar GRE VR (a 680, which is around the 96th percentile or similar to a 13 on the MCAT VR). For someone like that, would it be helpful, perhaps, to include the GRE score in the student's application to show it was likely a fluke?

There is a space on AMCAS where the applicant can list other test scores like the GRE. It probably won't be helpful, but it won't hurt anything, either. At least at my school, we have never used the GRE as part of our decision-making process, and a GRE score would not be considered in lieu of an MCAT score. It's not fair to use GRE scores because most applicants don't have one, while everyone takes the MCAT.

But even if we were willing to use GRE scores, how would we know that the MCAT VR isn't the representative score while the GRE score is the fluke? Some people who retake the MCAT go up on their second try; should we assume their first score is representative and disregard their second, or vice versa? What if their second score is lower; should we assume the original higher score was a fluke? You can see the difficulty with making unwarranted assumptions like this. Again, every piece of evidence must be considered in the context of the entire app if you want to get an overall picture that is as fair and accurate as possible.

 

[QofQuimica]

How would you consider an applicant with ups and downs in the GPA? Freshman year - senior year GPA has been for me 3.65/3.9/3.5/3.8.

What happened was I wasn't used to the testing/studying style freshman year, but I figured it out sophomore year. Junior year hit, and all the testing styles changed (multiple choice to short answer) and it took me a bit of time to figure it out, hence the drop and then rise again my senior year.

Also, how would you look at W's?

When you say something (like grades dropping throughout college) is a red flag, does that mean "I just throw them out" or "I get scared and look at other parts of the application for redemption" or just vaguely "It lowers their overall likelihood of being admitted/ puts them lower on the totem pole?" What does a "red flag" even mean, and how does it play into the decision for admission directly?

When we look at the applicant's academic record, what we are looking for is ability to successfully complete the medical school curriculum. On the whole, adcoms at all American medical schools do an excellent job at this: very few people flunk out of medical school because they just can't hack it.

I would define a "red flag" as anything that gives us reason to believe that the applicant might not be able to succeed in medical school and/or as a practicing physician. Speaking specifically about grades, poor or inconsistent performance would be a concern. Obviously, there is no concern about the academic abilities of a person who graduates with a 4.0 GPA, especially if coupled with a high MCAT score. An academic record that is too poor is likewise pretty easy to spot. The question becomes how to deal with people who have ups and downs in their record. As I said before, each school has its own ways of handling these cases. At my school, we look at trends, as I described above.

It's impossible for me to say how your record would be evaluated without seeing your whole app. But based on what you've said, your overall GPA should be quite high, and I don't think you'd have trouble getting past a screen for GPA at those schools which use screens. Beyond that, all I can tell you is, "it depends." That goes for the Ws as well.