- Joined
- Jan 17, 2006
- Messages
- 528
- Reaction score
- 1
Do you have a source for that fact??
I think if you used the SEARCH function you would realize that your post has been made and debunked ad infinitum on SDN...😴
AA totally out of control?
- Thread starter LADoc00
- Start date
- Status
Do you have a source for that fact??
I think if you used the SEARCH function you would realize that your post has been made and debunked ad infinitum on SDN...😴
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2004
- Messages
- 154
- Reaction score
- 1
i'm truly sorry for everything you have gone through because of AA, there is no doubt in my mind that you are a deserving applicant. with that said, the reason affirmative action exists is because of attiudes such as yours. you don't know anything about the person sitting next to you yet you have already passed judgement? i assure you that you are not the only one in the class doing so either. your attitude is flat out prejudicial and very stereotypical of that person. and you're wrong, it doesn't sound wrong, it is wrong. let me ask you another question, do you think you're gonna have the time to check others out while in class? while you're passing judgement on me i'm gonna taking down important info while you're falling behind. don't worry about me! i'm gravy baby. you need to worry about yourself. AA doesn't reflect poorly on me in anyway.
another thing that i'm gonna touch on is the rampant cheating that goes on in undergrad. i know that i'm gonna seriously ruffle some feathers here but if its the truth, which it is!, then its not talkin' $hit. right? while at a local CC vietnamese work study students would get a hold of old tests that were not available to all students. as a result, they had the highest grades. at my local state u. indian students would do the same. guess who had the highest marks? does that give me the right to go into med school and "not give the credit they deserve" to anyone? no it doesn't. even if they did cheat their way into med school i have more important things to worry about, such as my medical education.
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2005
- Messages
- 141
- Reaction score
- 0
Great...countering a "racist" (but good, IMO) post with another generalistic post. All Asians cheat now? Thats awesome.👍
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2005
- Messages
- 141
- Reaction score
- 0
You're right. Although most of his post was great, I thought that statement was false. Racism at the highest levels still exist in the USA. Look at how many Asian American doctors/researchers at top labs there are, and look at how many chief surgeons/research profs that are Asian there are. UC Berkeley is 45% Asian, but the # of Asian professors is probably less than 10%. Go figure.
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2004
- Messages
- 11,775
- Reaction score
- 2,041
Before there was affirmative action, people felt the same way about legacy kids. Folks just seem to always feel the need to feel superior to another groups and believing "I earned this and they didn't" seems to fulfill this inadequacy.
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2004
- Messages
- 154
- Reaction score
- 1
NO, i never said that all asians cheat. the language and grammar in my post clearly states that. my point is that everyone endures hardships when attempting to achieve their goals. if anything the grand majority of asians are hard working and highly intelligent (as some of us URMs are also by the way) and make everyone else that much better because of the added competition. i'm sure there are plenty of ways for you to stir trouble around here but leave me out of it. don't imply things you know nothing about.
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2006
- Messages
- 18,549
- Reaction score
- 11,187
I think they got the asians cheating vibe because your two examples were from "Eastern" nations. I got what you meant, but was there a need to state the race of the cheaters in your post? Couldn't you have just as easily said that I saw some "people" etc?
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2004
- Messages
- 1,965
- Reaction score
- 5
What's interesting is that this view is likely no different from what your parents thought of blacks when they were your age or what your grandparents, greatgrandparents, ect thought about blacks. In other words other racial groups thingking blacks aren't academically qualified for anything isn't a new idea in the US. 🙄
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2005
- Messages
- 8,506
- Reaction score
- 7
That's too bad...but not surprising...you will give them credit when they outperform you in class....Oh, and it is an awesome feeling.
I enjoyed doing that at Rice
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2004
- Messages
- 115
- Reaction score
- 3
!!!! Thanks Rafa - I needed that laugh!!!
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2006
- Messages
- 755
- Reaction score
- 0
Yes, I will give them credit if they do fine. But here's something else: do you think I like thinking like a damn racist whenever I see a URM student in med school thinking that he didn't get there because of his brainpower? NO. NO. AND NO.
But given my past experiences, this is the first thing that will come into my mind. If the admission process was fair, I would never think such a thing. And I really don't want to anyways.
But it's more of a visceral reaction, and I haven't been able to talk myself out of this gut feeling. Maybe if I saw more URMs getting to places out of their own merit they I wouldn't be so pissed.
I'll give you another example. There was this kid in high school (Hispanic) who got a 1230 *or smt close that* on his SAT. I always owned him in the local and regional competitions. However, he ended up at one of the nation's top 3 engineering schools.
I'm telling you guys, I have just seen too many cases of this BS not to get that gut feeling.
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2006
- Messages
- 394
- Reaction score
- 0
Yeah, I dont think I could be mad at anyone for assuming this as long as people stay open minded and don't let it affect how they treat each other. My freshman year roomate was Asian and never wanted to work with me on homework, basically because I was black and she thought I was dumber. Whatever, I scored almost 100 points higher than her on the SATs(which we discussed alot later) and a full letter grade higher than her in the one class we shared together. Best believe she was willing to do homework with me after that, which was fine with me, it was just unfortunate that she had that assumption of me because of my race.
Also, I hate when people say "because of AA I think blacks/hispanics etc. are less intelligent than me and thats why its such a bad idea". HELLO Europeans have been teaching the world since the beginning of time that blacks are less intelligent, and this has been the accepted belief in America since like forever. Most people think Asians are the most intelligent, so if thats what you believe, than just own up to it. Do you really think if AA was eliminated you would believe your Black lab partner was as intelligent as your White or Asian partner? Probably not. If you have a racist assumption (and this coming from a person who believes people of ALL races are racist in some way) then don't blame it on a piece of legislation passed 30 some odd years ago, just keep it real.👍
Z
zimmie256
Sadly we can't expect the rampant cheating to end after undergrad... http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/09/20/cheating.reut/index.html?section=cnn_education . Based on the study cited in this article, 49% of medical and health-care students cheated at some point during their medical education. Yikes! 😱
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2006
- Messages
- 2,341
- Reaction score
- 8
^ That's not so surprising. Just make an adderall poll (or search through the old ones), and you'll find battallions of people defending their rights to use illegal drugs to give them immoral advantages over their peers. People cheat. It's what they do. Those of us who don't get by.
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2005
- Messages
- 1,436
- Reaction score
- 4
Unfortunately, this is the way things are. URM's in public universities and even some private ones have dramatically lower graduation rates than ORM's. It's not that they are less intelligent in general but simply that they get into schools their academic stats (GPA, SAT scores, and other predictors of college performance) wouldn't otherwise allow. Obviously, there are many successful URM's in college but the trends show that they perform worse than ORM's. I understand the merit of affirmative action in promoting diversity but diversity doesn't translate into a good college GPA or graduation rate. This only feeds the existing prejudice against URM's when their peers see them underperforming.
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2005
- Messages
- 414
- Reaction score
- 3
I'll speak as an Asian applicant. I do question the legitimacy of AA and URM status often. It relies on stereotypes, but quite frankly I'm somewhat less likely to blame the Latino/African-American/Native American student that takes advantage of the system over the aging white men who put the system in place.
I do also happen to be an immigrant and where I come from (it's a Southeast Asian Muslim country, I will tell you that), Asians are discriminated against to the point where we fear violence. So I would have to say that my background in many ways is not dissimilar to Latinos or African Americans who have suffered a lot of racism. Like some of the URMs, my family also came from a dirt-poor background.
But unfortunately for me, my last name sounds something like Chen or Kim. I didn't get any hand outs from anyone. People looked at me and automatically assumed I came from a hard-working family that highly valued education and pushed their kids hard. We were hard working, but I came from a family that raised more than a couple eyebrows when I went to college. And I'm proud of my own accomplishments. I think I'm a better person for the challenges I faced.
My real question is if AA helps anyone. Even I will admit that I do question people who got into top schools who are URM. Did they get in because they earned it or because the school had a quota to fulfill? I also think this is something that URM applicants should ask themselves. This isn't to say that there are many high-achieving URMs who have definitely earned their spot to a school. But I can't, and won't, stop feeling that they were given a preference that I wasn't and that's the bottom line.
I do also happen to be an immigrant and where I come from (it's a Southeast Asian Muslim country, I will tell you that), Asians are discriminated against to the point where we fear violence. So I would have to say that my background in many ways is not dissimilar to Latinos or African Americans who have suffered a lot of racism. Like some of the URMs, my family also came from a dirt-poor background.
But unfortunately for me, my last name sounds something like Chen or Kim. I didn't get any hand outs from anyone. People looked at me and automatically assumed I came from a hard-working family that highly valued education and pushed their kids hard. We were hard working, but I came from a family that raised more than a couple eyebrows when I went to college. And I'm proud of my own accomplishments. I think I'm a better person for the challenges I faced.
My real question is if AA helps anyone. Even I will admit that I do question people who got into top schools who are URM. Did they get in because they earned it or because the school had a quota to fulfill? I also think this is something that URM applicants should ask themselves. This isn't to say that there are many high-achieving URMs who have definitely earned their spot to a school. But I can't, and won't, stop feeling that they were given a preference that I wasn't and that's the bottom line.
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2005
- Messages
- 8,506
- Reaction score
- 7
Well...I'll tell you right now that kids who get into these top med schools are quite deserving...at least it seems that way at Penn...no minority gets into those schools without stellar numbers (based on the numbers I have seen from minority admittees)
Next time when you look for people who you feel were not admitted by their own merit, try figuring out which non-URM's were admitted based on their merit.
A very prominent person can serve as your first example: George W. Bush...who admittedly is a C student and who still managed to get into law school...go figure.
Senator Frist has done the same favor for his two idiot children...go Princeton Tigers!!!!!
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2005
- Messages
- 8,506
- Reaction score
- 7
give me data...that also may show extenuating circumstances...then we will discuss
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2006
- Messages
- 255
- Reaction score
- 0
Oh, please.
Maybe the reason YOu got waitlisted is that you came across NEGATIVELY in your interviews. Take some PERSONAL inventory, instead of trying to blame someone else for your lack of acceptances.
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2006
- Messages
- 255
- Reaction score
- 0
I'm a URM who got into STANFORD undergrad with better stats than my white classmates who were PISSED they didn't get accepted. You all need to get over yourselves. I'm sick of your ridiculous assumptions that every URM has bad stats. That's the only reason you can justify why you couldn't cut it.
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2005
- Messages
- 1,436
- Reaction score
- 4
It was an article in the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education but the link seems to be dead. Basically, African Americans have relatively high graduation rates (although still below their white and asian counterparts) in more nuturing places like LAC's or grade-inflated schools like Harvard or Yale. The obvious effect of grade inflation is that it masks differences b/w students by giving them all A's. The difference in graduation rates is especially pronounced at "tougher" schools (Cornell, UC's-esp. Berkeley, Michigan, state schools).
This really shouldn't come as a shock to anyone. If you allow asians or whites with 1200 SAT scores into Cornell, they're not going to do well either. I think we all agree that, on average, URM's are accepted with lower GPA's and SAT scores.
The problem with affirmative action is that it is a stop-gap measure. More permenant and effective actions (such as improving elementary and secondary education in inner city schools and changing how minority students are viewed) require more time, money, propaganda, effort, etc. So what happens? These schools admit a few extra minority students with substandard scores to affirm their "committment to diversity." Pro-AA people see this, rejoice at the marvels of affirmative action, and call it a day.
And, yes, I have met people who assume that Hispanic and African Americans are subpar students, the same way many people assume athletes are subpar students. It's because they get in with lower scores and consequently don't do as well.
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2006
- Messages
- 19
- Reaction score
- 0
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2005
- Messages
- 1,436
- Reaction score
- 4
I love how people always think anti-AAers are all blaming URM's. I'm cutting it just fine, thank you. I have good stats and med schools accept so few URM's anyway that I have no reason to blame URM's for anything.
While you may have good stats, would you concede that the avg. stats of URM's are noticeably lower than that of non-URM's?
First, the % percentage of black and latino matriculants for the last two or three years has only been about 15% of total matriculants. Even if you are the most racist bigot to walk the face of the earth, assume that all minorities got a free pass into med schools, and think the URM policy kept you out of med school, what's your excuse for other 85% of seats that went to non-URMs? Secondly, I disagree that the point of the admissions process is to make a fair judgment about applicants. The point of the admission process is for schools to decide who THEY WANT in their medical school. Adcoms are under no obligation to be completely fair and impartial, and the notion that they should be is naive. Most medical schools are private instituitions, meaning that they are entitled to a lot of latitude in their admissions policies. This is simply a fact of life. In comparison to other professions and competitive processes, the med school process is relatively fair. In the business world, you can't even apply to the most covet jobs unless you know an executive in the company or have a connection through a family member.
Please don't respond to this post with some comment about how numbers and percentages don't matter, and that you disagree with the URM policy on principle alone. If that were truly the case, then you should be starting angry threads about kids who get preference in admissions because their parents work at the university or are alumnae of a particular medical school. I've yet to see a single thread that addresses this issue, and I believe its because there are so few of these types of applicants that its not even worth talking about. You can't have it both ways. You can't say that you disagree with the URM policy on principle alone, and then not raise a fuss about all the other small groups of special applicants that get preferential treatment. People who single out URMs as the sole reason why they didn't get into medical school are simply looking for a scape goat.
Please don't respond to this post with some comment about how numbers and percentages don't matter, and that you disagree with the URM policy on principle alone. If that were truly the case, then you should be starting angry threads about kids who get preference in admissions because their parents work at the university or are alumnae of a particular medical school. I've yet to see a single thread that addresses this issue, and I believe its because there are so few of these types of applicants that its not even worth talking about. You can't have it both ways. You can't say that you disagree with the URM policy on principle alone, and then not raise a fuss about all the other small groups of special applicants that get preferential treatment. People who single out URMs as the sole reason why they didn't get into medical school are simply looking for a scape goat.
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2006
- Messages
- 6,133
- Reaction score
- 2,369
I believe that. I will own up to it. I also have some proof. On average, asian people have IQs almost 1 standard deviation above white people. This does not mean that an individual asian person is necessarily smarter than an individual white person but if everyone were taken together, asians would be on average smarter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence_(Average_intelligence_gaps_among_races)
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2005
- Messages
- 8,506
- Reaction score
- 7
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2005
- Messages
- 8,506
- Reaction score
- 7
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2006
- Messages
- 755
- Reaction score
- 0
Yes, and what do you call it when someone is given admission because the adcomm wanted to exercise their "latitude" based on race? Oh let me think ....It's not coming to me..... hold on... Oh how stupid of me it's called prejudice. That's right, if someone is given a preference because of their race, it is called prejudice, racism, etc...
Now if they took into account socioeconomic factors, I wouldn't be here bitching about it because I would know that all those rich URM-wannabe kids who had private tutors starting from elementary wouldn't get any preferential treatment.
And my main problem with AA is not that it's helping out the minorities, it's just the cases that AA helps out are so ridiculously not disadvantaged, specially when it comes to the top private colleges. I mean come on, this guy with a 1230 got into the top engineering school. And what pisses me off was that in math competitions my score was always, always at least 3 times higher than his. I know this is probably one case, but I'm just speaking from my own personal experience.
Maybe if everybody here said a little bit of smt about their experience with AA, then I would be able to open my mind a bit.
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2004
- Messages
- 80
- Reaction score
- 0
This is pretty faulty logic. You can't look at only the outcome of a situation and attempt to infer the means by which it was achieved. There are tons of ways of arriving at the racial distribution you refer to, and racism is only one possibility. It could just be that certain "cultures" tend to prefer certain lines of work, based on the ways their communities influence them. I know that I have no basis for generalizing across the population, but all of the Asians I know are strongly encouraged by their parents and parents' friends to pursue research and medicine. Perhaps other cultures receive similar influences towards different lines of work (e.g. politics, law, etc.).
Anyway, maybe you're right; maybe the fields of medicine and higher education are really out to keep URMs down, and affirmative action is our only defense in what would otherwise be a world of injustice. However, I don't think that's the most plausible or parsimonious explanation. I just think that the system needs to be re-evaluated and perhaps restructured to better address today's needs and attempt to be fair to everyone.
...and P.S. I'm a girl 😉
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2005
- Messages
- 8,506
- Reaction score
- 7
I'm curious to know how you two compared on paper in ALL facets...not just in academics...you keep mentioning that damn math competition and math score...that one dimensional bull**** is not getting this discussion anywhere...but then again many people on here base their arguments on anecdotal horse dung (yeah the dung that probably came out of that horse when it croaked) that in my book is of miniscule importance.
Oh and this is worse:
I bet, quantitatively speaking, "all those rich URM-wannabe kids..." probably totals less than the number of non-URM wealthy kids who have had tutors all their lives and are still underachievers...and yet gain acceptance to top schools...OVER MAD THE WORLD PEOPLE LIKE YOU.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2006
- Messages
- 254
- Reaction score
- 0
Oh mi god... how many of these threads do we really need? I visited EVMS last night and I was told that there were 5 URM students in the entering class. 5! And supposedly AA is "out of control"? WHATEVER!!!
And another pet peeve: why does it have to be a non-deserving URM who took your spot? Why can't it be a more deserving white male applicant? It's a competitive process and whether URMs apply or not, you ARE NOT GOING TO GET IN EVERYWHERE!!! And why do you feel as if posting on SDN is going to make a difference in anything? Even if an ADCOM member was reading this thread, I doubt it is going to affect any decision he/ she will make when she looks at another overachieving Asian's application in the morning. Futhermore, I doubt that this will make discourage any URM applicant from applying. Not to mention that no one who has posted here has managed to bring anything to the debate that hasn't been stated at least 20 times in the past 5 yrs. If you hate AA so much, go lobby at Congress, hold a protest in front of the Admissions office, write a letter to someone who cares... I don't care, but do something more worthwhile with your emotions that rehashing an old argument on SDN.
And the OP started this thread because he was looking at mdapplicants.com?
Loser.
And another pet peeve: why does it have to be a non-deserving URM who took your spot? Why can't it be a more deserving white male applicant? It's a competitive process and whether URMs apply or not, you ARE NOT GOING TO GET IN EVERYWHERE!!! And why do you feel as if posting on SDN is going to make a difference in anything? Even if an ADCOM member was reading this thread, I doubt it is going to affect any decision he/ she will make when she looks at another overachieving Asian's application in the morning. Futhermore, I doubt that this will make discourage any URM applicant from applying. Not to mention that no one who has posted here has managed to bring anything to the debate that hasn't been stated at least 20 times in the past 5 yrs. If you hate AA so much, go lobby at Congress, hold a protest in front of the Admissions office, write a letter to someone who cares... I don't care, but do something more worthwhile with your emotions that rehashing an old argument on SDN.
And the OP started this thread because he was looking at mdapplicants.com?
Loser.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2006
- Messages
- 2,341
- Reaction score
- 8
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2004
- Messages
- 5,573
- Reaction score
- 9
If you read the AAMC policy its really not about fairness, or racism, or any of those things. Its not trying to "level the playing field" or serve as a counter-measure for unequal oppertunities, disadvantages, or frank racisim. Its goal is, very simply, to increase the number of physicians from under-represented racial groups. The reasons that those groups are under-represented are certainly interesting, but are not directly relevent to the program and really outside of its scope.
Thus, any discussions of ways to make AA better, or more "fair," etc are off point. Life isn't fair and "fairness" isn't its goal--its goal is increasing URM physicians and to that end it does an effective job.
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2005
- Messages
- 611
- Reaction score
- 0
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2004
- Messages
- 154
- Reaction score
- 1
i would've loved to leave race out of it, trust me. the post i responded to made a reference to asians and indians though. this is also not the first post i have seen with an "asians, indians, and whites are smarter" tone either. just like the poster has been burned by the unfairness of the system, i too have been burned by the unfairness of a system that is supposedly more appropriate for "asians, indians, and whites" to take advantage of. Despite that i don't have the right to not give people the respect they deserve. i dont feel the need to prove anything to anyone but to my face you have no choice but to give the respect and dignity i am entitled to as a human being.
once in med school, if someone's ignorant attitude towards me (whether it be in lab or in a study group) costs me the grade i deserve, that person will experience firsthand another racial minority stereotype directly related to appropriate societal behavior. riceman is right, its a beautiful feeling when you look at the stupid look on the face of people who originally doubted you. not all of us URMs are incapable of studying and learning medicine. another post asks if we really need anymore threads such as this one, the answer is no. we should'nt see anymore threads like these but as long as certain people feel that they can blame their problems on others and then attack them we will continue to have threads like these. for goodness sake people we live in 2006. some of you need to close the science books and open up your history and sociology books.
velo, you got your stuff down right.
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2006
- Messages
- 169
- Reaction score
- 0
Wow.🙁 That is really sad.
It's not sad because I'm black and would be I guess considered a URM. It's sad because you've placed judgement on and categorized an entire group of people based off your limited perspective. So I guess I wouldn't be given the 'credit' or authenticity of some of my other counterparts. Well, I think that's too bad, because I didn't work to make a 31 or 3.9 gpa to please you or anyone who thinks that me or anyone who looks like me doesn't have the 'merit' or 'brainpower.'
At the same time, I appreciate your comments. Not only do they show your ignorance, they also inspire me to work harder. Not for your approval, but so I can go back and show other URMs that it is possible to succeed despite the preconcieved opinions and doubts of some people such as yourself.
So go ahead, label and marginalize me. I'll just smile in my white coat, and ask you, "So how's the application process?"
Oh yeah...BTW
Would you say this at an interview if asked?
What are your stats? I hope this URM thing is not an excuse.
Good luck to everybody else.🙂 URM or Non-URM
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2004
- Messages
- 11,105
- Reaction score
- 103
Shhhhhh... the black people.... the black people are EVERYWHERE!!!!!
*hides under couch again*
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2006
- Messages
- 2,341
- Reaction score
- 8
Shhhhhh... the black people.... the black people are EVERYWHERE!!!!!
*hides under couch again*
Hahahaha!
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2006
- Messages
- 31
- Reaction score
- 0
That's the problem with AA, whether you want it or not you're going to be until the person(s) knows more about you. Does every URM deserve to be marginalized? No but the fact is, no matter how small the percentage, there is going to be people who should be there wearing the white coat smiling but their not because of "diversity's" sake. And that is the real problem, a disconnect between the intended use of checking that URM box and then those who check the box when the only diversity they're bringing is a different pigment color. So the equation for medical school then becomes: GPA x10, MCAT x10 + density of melanin x .5 👍
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2005
- Messages
- 3,016
- Reaction score
- 53
For the last bloody time. All affirmative action looks at is the representation of the applicant in MEDICINE. So if a poor asian applys to medical school with the same stats as a poor latino, the latino will be probably be accepted due to the fact that asians (don't quote me on the stat) have about a 40% representation in medicine, while hispanics have a drastically lower representation. A white person with lower stats won't get in compared to a native american with lower stats because whites are represented AMAZINGLY WELL in medicine. It is not about fairness, its about representation in medicine. This is reality, so accept it.
The best thing is to just do your PERSONAL best, and hope that all works out. The job of medical schools and the AAMC is to make sure that America as a nation gets healthcare, and too much data has shown that doctors are likely to serve in communities (especially racial communities) that they came from.
The best thing is to just do your PERSONAL best, and hope that all works out. The job of medical schools and the AAMC is to make sure that America as a nation gets healthcare, and too much data has shown that doctors are likely to serve in communities (especially racial communities) that they came from.
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2006
- Messages
- 31
- Reaction score
- 0
Again, representing.. more pigment? It's lost its effectiveness, just because they can mark the URM doesn't indicate their background is different than the average AMAZINGLY WELL represented white person. If it's true that they only represent a ~4% of applicants, it wouldn't hurt to take away the URM box and take it in a case by case bases to see what they're really "representing", which should be done anyways. Your arguement for doctors serving in the communities they come from has nothing to do with more pigment or the lack thereof, whitie comes from poor hoods too.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2004
- Messages
- 1,965
- Reaction score
- 5
The difference is to use YOUR words, "whitie comes from poor hoods too" but they don't often go back and they certainly don't end up in the "black hoods".
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2005
- Messages
- 611
- Reaction score
- 0
What am I going to tell everyone if I don't get into med school...
I KNOW!! THE URM's took my spot!
I KNOW!! THE URM's took my spot!- Joined
- Aug 27, 2006
- Messages
- 31
- Reaction score
- 0
They don't? Please tell me why wouldn't they? If the reasoning behind people going back to where they came from truly is intrinsic, to help those people who you know really need it, then no matter what your racial affiliation you'll be going back. Otherwise if the motives are NOT intrinsic, then the black person is just as likely as the white person to move onto a more lucrative position. Next.
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2005
- Messages
- 1,171
- Reaction score
- 3
that's the way it works - they base all their info on statistics and numbers and one thing they forget is that using statistics and doing research on "groups" is fine, but when you implement policies for "groups", some individuals get screwed...or their assumptions, which are true for the "group" may not be true for the individual.
that being said - get over yourselves, unless an adcom said to me, "uh, yeah, there was 1 spot left and we gave it to the URM and not you b/c ur not URM", I will never assume someone took my spot via AA.
If someone got into a top school through AA and you didnt' get in but had higher stats don't assume anything - think about this: without AA, the URM would not have gotten in ...and w/o AA you still wouldn't have gotten in. Face, you got what it takes? You'll get to where you need to go - don't jump all over a system that the white man is trying to use to solve social problems that they themselves have created over hundreds of years of development in america.
that being said - get over yourselves, unless an adcom said to me, "uh, yeah, there was 1 spot left and we gave it to the URM and not you b/c ur not URM", I will never assume someone took my spot via AA.
If someone got into a top school through AA and you didnt' get in but had higher stats don't assume anything - think about this: without AA, the URM would not have gotten in ...and w/o AA you still wouldn't have gotten in. Face, you got what it takes? You'll get to where you need to go - don't jump all over a system that the white man is trying to use to solve social problems that they themselves have created over hundreds of years of development in america.
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2005
- Messages
- 67
- Reaction score
- 0
I resent that. THE white man? Don't put blame on "white people". And this "white" man plans to return home to practice in an underserved area. Though I'm more of a peach/tan color...do you think a patient will ask for a physician of a specific skin color? God I hope we can rise above skin color. I won't go out of my way to say I'm not racist, but I'll show you with my life's work. Let's go
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2004
- Messages
- 1,965
- Reaction score
- 5
Why don't you live a couple years and AFTER you've experiecned some that resembles a life OUTSIDE of being a premed, get back to me OK sport?
I've personally worked with poor whites who became docs and not one of them returned back to the areas they came from, and they all admit that saying they would return "home" was an excuse to get into med school/vet school/dental school. And to add insult to injury, a few of them became dermatologists, which I'm sure they neglected to mention in their med school interview.🙄
So I imagine if there were so many poor whites going back to the 'hood which I'm translating to mean rural areas, there wouldn't be such a shortage of physicans in these areas because there are certainly enough white medical schools graduates. OTOH, the reason the 'hood doesn't have the medical support it need's besides the obvious that funding to support these areas is seriously lacking, is because there simply aren't enough BLACK med school graduates to come close to filling all the available positions.
Did I hear someone say, more affirmative action please???
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2006
- Messages
- 31
- Reaction score
- 0
So basically what you're saying is, anecdotally, is black people care more about their community than white people?
I would continue to argue but if you really think the amount of melanin is an indicator of the veracity of ones intentions I don't think we could continue on to what really matters - what you've mentioned, the areas that really do need the help. I'll let you in on a little secret, sport, checking a box isn't going to fix that.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2004
- Messages
- 1,965
- Reaction score
- 5
No, what I'm SPECIFICALLY saying is that ONE aspect of is affirmative action is to address the issue providing more minority physicians. But what you haven't addressed for reasons I can only guess, is why there's a shortage of docs in places like Appalachia when there are thousands of white med school graduates?So basically what you're saying is, anecdotally, is black people care more about their community than white people?
And BTW,it isn't about checking a box spot, opps I meant sport, it's about what you DO when finish med school.
- Status
