AACOMAS Grade Replacement Policy Announcement/Questions Regarding Change

[MrFixIt]

When is it advisable to obtain a graduate degree over taking more undergrad classes (when an SMP isn't possible)?

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[AlbinoHawk DO]

When is it advisable to obtain a graduate degree over taking more undergrad classes (when an SMP isn't possible)?

Never.

 

[hehesheppy]

This is a (an incomplete) list I made a couple of days ago. It includes schools that do not require a minimum to have an application looked at entirely. Take a look at the comments section as well.
Note that I did not just go to each website; I emailed and called every school to verify.

If in the comments section it says nothing about the new grade replacement policy does it mean that the school has not made a decision yet about whether they will be implementing this new change?

 

[Yhorm the Giant]

If in the comments section it says nothing about the new grade replacement policy does it mean that the school has not made a decision yet about whether they will be implementing this new change?

Personally, I'm assuming that they are all adopting it unless they specifically say otherwise.

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[235009]

If in the comments section it says nothing about the new grade replacement policy does it mean that the school has not made a decision yet about whether they will be implementing this new change?

I thought AACOMAS was going to calculate GPAs workout grade replacement so it's going to be very difficult for schools to recalculate your GPA.


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[Yhorm the Giant]

I thought AACOMAS was going to calculate GPAs workout grade replacement so it's going to be very difficult for schools to recalculate your GPA.


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Meaning they just won't do it. Awesome username.

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[Chromatic543]

So I was always unmotivated in High School and the beginning of college, and did really poorly off the bat because of lack of motivation and my maturity level.

I ended up getting a 3.0 cGPA and 3.10 sGPA, but saw the chance to use grade replacement and got myself to a 3.48 cGPA/3.32 sGPA and got really happy. Now that I got the devastating message that grade replacement will no longer work (even for May 1 applications), I will fall to a 3.03 cGPA/3.25 sGPA. I feel like I won't pass the cutoffs and if I somehow do, then I will be rejected. My GPA is just TOO saturated!

I feel so devastated and lost now. I don't know what to do. I feel like my dreams are being taken away, and I just don't know what to think. I was planning on applying to all the new DO schools, and almost all the DO schools.

MCAT: 126-124-126-126 (502 TOTAL)
Volunteering: 700 Hours Total (400 Hospital and 300 patient home)
Academic Senate Member
Chess Club
Global Medical Brigades member
Orphanage Volunteering
MD Internal Medicine Shadowing
DO Internal Medicine Shadowing
2 Professor LORs
1 MD LOR
1 DO LOR

 

[Salmanium Chloride]

Hi everyone, Im a new member to SDN (well not really, I've kinda been stalking these forums for my entire undergrad but I decided to make an account after this announcement). I just found out about this grade replacement removal 3 days ago, and I too was disappointed by this announcement... so much that I actually cried myself to sleep that night because I thought my future was over.

Im graduating this spring and I WAS planning on retaking 3 classes I got Cs in, and assuming I get As in those classes, my GPA would've been a 3.3ish with grade replacement. However, now I find myself in a situation where Im sitting at a 3.0 even after I retake those classes (and thats assuming everything from now until graduation goes smoothly and I get straight As). Im planning on taking the MCAT at the end of the summer.

This news was disappointing to me. But if anything, I am now so much more motivated to go that extra mile in all of my classes, knowing I cannot get a second chance anymore. I know this isn't a WAMC thread, but if I do post bacc work for about a year with ~30 units of upper div science and get mostly As, should I apply next year (2018-2019 app cycle)? Or would an SMP still be needed? After the postbacc my GPA (hopefully) would be a 3.1. I have a couple hundred hours of volunteering in hospitals, currently shadowing a DO, plenty of service to underserved communities.

 

[Chromatic543]

I personally would reject you outright for doing something so incredibly stupid as retaking a 522 MCAT score. That shows lethally poor judgement. If you were trying to be humorous, it didn't travel well over the electrons.

Lots of schools are MCAT ******, so a 522 will get noticed.

This post made me laugh. I cannot imagine a Physician using the word "*****."

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

This post made me laugh. I cannot imagine a Physician using the word "*****."

Goro is not a physician.

 

[Chromatic543]

Goro is not a physician.

I didn't even notice that.

 

[skeptastic]

I have emailed all of the schools, and so far this is what I have received:

CUSOM: "CUSOM has not made a decision at this time if we will be following AACOM’s new policy. We will be reviewing this new policy and making a decision once the current application cycle is closed. Please continue to check our website for updates.

Thank!
CUSOM Admissions"

2. ATSU: "We will no longer be using grade replacement for our DO program applications. All grades will be included in the GPA calculation so if you took a course twice it would be an average of the 2 grades. "

3. Midwestern: "In regards to AACOMAS announcement that they will no longer be honoring grade replacement when calculating GPAs; Midwestern University AZCOM has not yet determined how the application will be processed in 2017-2018 cycle. Please continue to check with the admissions office regarding this decision. "

I have also made a current spreadsheet with all Osteopathic Schools and their minimum GPAs. The comments section lists important information I received as to whether or not they have automatic screen outs based on GPA number. It seems that those who do not have a minimum or those who give automatic secondaries do not have an automatic rejection based on number; each candidate's application is looked at in its entirety before a decision is made with these particular schools. *note that this spreadsheet is still a work in progress and so there are many gaps, but I still thought it would be useful.

This is extremely helpful. Thank you for the time and effort that you put into this.

I've lurked for one year, and am posting for the first time. I still need to calculate what my cGPA and sGPA are, but I know that they are both lacking, as I get set to begin my journey into the realm of science prerequisite courses. I've taken very few of the science prerequisites needed to apply to medical school (Chem 1 and Chem 2), so I have a decent shot of having a good sGPA, though I took a TON of classes en route to earning my Bachelor's degree. College football, many transfers, life difficulties, lack of focus in early undergrad years....the usual. I'd give anything to go back and NOT accept a scholarship to play football, especially seeing as I didn't want to play, but dealt with immense pressure from family to take the "free ride."

Fast forward to 2017, and I am back to square one (square one 2.0, perhaps? : D).

I was planning on doing some grade replacement, but after factoring in the number of credits hours already attempted and the fact that grade replacement is now a thing of the past, I will focus on the science prerequisites, along with MCAT score, LORs, etc. I really do hope and HAVE to believe that the grade replacement policy change won't serve as a major blockade to my medical school entry. I showed up at a small university in Washington state as a pre-med student, lost my way and eventually graduated with a B.A. in Psychology from UNLV. Now much older, and refocused on what is important, I am ready to become a physician, and that is exactly what I intend to do.

I have read every single post in this thread, along with countless others in threads on this site, and my heart hurts for everyone who has worked so hard and now feels somewhat defeated. My heart ALSO beats with much more passion, for all of you, knowing that all of your effort and sacrifice do NOT have to be in vain. It is certainly much easier for me to say this, being in a position of full knowledge about the policy change before I begin my journey, whereas so many of you were blindsided by the news after tireless work, based upon a policy you didn't expect to change so abruptly. I feel for your struggle. In some ways, I know your struggle. That being said, I'm of the opinion that it takes an incredibly resilient and determined individual to get to the place where many of you currently find yourselves. Not everyone can do what you've done, staging a "come-back" of this magnitude.

I truly mean it, when I say that you deserve for all that you've done to result in your matriculation into medical school. The stories I've read come from people I've never met, yet who I absolutely feel that I know, because your stories sound so similar to my own. Those same stories come from the type of people who I'd bet money on being nothing BUT successful, in whatever other avenues you've explored in life. You are not the kind of people who will fail.

You're at this amazing fork in the road. You're resolve is being tested. I know that pain. Don't quit. You owe it to yourselves to make it happen. You are all so much more than a bunch of grades you earned years ago. You got this!!

 

[Salmanium Chloride]

I have a feeling that SMP and Postbacc programs are going to see a major increase in applications next year.

 

[RudolphVirCow]

An update/anecdote, for those who might feel discouraged:

I posted to this thread in January (here), shortly after the policy change was made public talking about how I was at the tail end of a two year DIY post-bac to redeem some academic struggles I'd had long before. I felt, and continue to feel, that this policy change is a mistake that is inequitable (it disproportionately affects applicants with disadvantaged backgrounds and applicants who are already underrepresented in medicine). Read my former post for more thoughts on this. What follows below is the nitty gritty, but to summarize the two paragraphs: I was already applying MD this cycle (as a hail mary) and in the end without grade replacement I still got accepted to an MD school; so losing grade replacement isn't necessarily the end of the world. Strongly consider applying to schools with holistic review processes, including allopathic.

What I didn't say in my earlier post was that I had already decided to give this cycle an attempt. Since allopathic schools don't do grade replacement, it hardly seemed necessary to totally complete the second year of post-bac before applying; I figured it wouldn't it matter if I had a 2.8sGPA or a 2.93sGPA, they'd see my indicated courses for the year, and could decide for themselves if they wanted to care about my cumulative GPA or just the post-bac trajectory. I didn't think much would come of it, but you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. The plan had been that when my post-bac was done, and grade replacement made all of those prior struggles "disappear" from my calculated GPA (but of course not from my transcripts), and I hadn't gotten into any allopathic schools, I would apply next cycle (aka 2 months from now) to osteopathic schools and maybe give a few of the allopathic schools I really liked yet one more shot. Using grade replacement I'd be applying with a 3.8 or 3.9sGPA/cGPA, an MCAT a bit above the 90th percentile, and I figured I'd be a strong candidate at osteopathic schools (along with my ECs of course, which I think are my strongest asset). The grade replacement policy change ruined this plan.

The same day I made my earlier post, I was hastily calculating what my GPA would be for this cycle if I completed an AACOMAS app right this minute. It was pretty good still (3.7) since I was just a few months away from being done with my diy-grade-replacement-postbac. I sent my transcripts to AACOMAS, entered all my grades, and held my breath they wouldn't give me hassle about the grade replacement stuff (since my replacement courses were at a new institution and thus the course numbers were different and so on). I applied incredibly late in the cycle to the DO schools that I was already enamored with, and found that indeed I was a strong candidate (as far as receiving IIs go). I'd also already received a few IIs from MD schools, and I attended those. Unlike DO, I didn't IIs at 100% of the MD schools I secondaried. (Imagine that.) I had to apply broadly, and I don't think I'd have had any chance without my MCAT score. I was basically hoping for schools that liked reinvention and non-trads. And where (according to MSAR) my cGPA wasn't too far below their 10th percentile and my MCAT might be at or beyond their 90th. Obviously for schools like Duke I wasn't gonna reach this goal, but for places like Rush it was closer, and any of them might see something special in me. I missed the Rush sGPA cutoff for interview by an incredibly small margin (my sGPA is crap from past science struggles, my cGPA is only partial crap, so this is how my cGPA can be at some schools' 10th %ile but sGPA below cutoff at Rush). Respect to Rush for saying in the rejection e-mail what sGPA was required this cycle for an II based on the competitiveness of the applicant cohort.

I applied (primary) to ~30 MD schools. Maybe 3 screened me out pre-secondary. I completed secondaries for 20 of the 27 schools. (Why the missing 7? One example, USF Morsani, which seemed mission-driven toward the underserved and appealed to me, asked you to explain every grade B- and below, and by that point in my essay writing I was just too burned out. For a few others I learned something about the school I didn't like in the intervening time). All of this got me three interviews with MD schools (one of which was a top program and the other two were 'schools with a state in their name' that came to my attention during research for being holistic in review process, or mission-driven, etc, and of course I didn't apply to "University of [state]" schools unless they took a pretty significant proportion of the student body from OoS). Of the MD schools: one rejected me, one accepted me, and I didn't attend the third interview. My acceptance was at a school that had become my top choice (felt like a perfect fit), so there was zero need for me to attend any further interviews (MD or DO), and now zero need to go another cycle. I honestly cannot believe this has happened, and I am now suddenly done working crazy crazy hard just to get a shot at a seat, and now I can work crazy crazy hard to become a physician. Nothing has ever meant so much to me as the opportunity to do the latter.

If I'd not applied DO hastily, and hadn't already been applying MD as a longshot, I was going to apply DO for the upcoming cycle, as well as retake my MCAT to push into the 520+ range (which would have made me more attractive to Duke and similar schools, I think ... Harvard office of diversity sent me a letter in the mail encouraging me to apply ... I gather that was because they paid AAMC for contact info for high scoring MCAT takers who also checked a box that indicated a 'diverse' background they feel would enrich their student body [I am not URM; there are other 'diversity things' in the primary] ... but in the end my MCAT wasn't above their average matriculant, so I don't think I stood out enough). I guess I'm writing this to say, basically, to everyone who thinks this rule change is the end of the world, please remember that some schools will be dedicated to finding the right candidates to meet their mission; to training a diverse body of physicians who intrinsically care about serving others. These schools will understand that sometimes the best candidates are the ones who haven't done everything perfectly and who have a few scrapes, but who also have a better understanding of what it's like to fall down and wonder if you'll be able to get back up. Go find these schools, and don't worry about the letters on the degree they'll award you. If you're truly committed to serving others and to medicine, there are MD and DO schools that will want you. It's a shame that the policy changed and there's no longer a turnkey path to making yourself a competitive candidate across the board to a huge number of schools, but in the end there were probably many of these schools where you might've gotten in (with grade replacement) and found it wasn't a good fit. The silver lining here is that although you'll have to work harder now, I'm hopeful that this means the fit will be better.

 

[skeptastic]

An update/anecdote, for those who might feel discouraged:

I posted to this thread in January (here), shortly after the policy change was made public talking about how I was at the tail end of a two year DIY post-bac to redeem some academic struggles I'd had long before. I felt, and continue to feel, that this policy change is a mistake that is inequitable (it disproportionately affects applicants with disadvantaged backgrounds and applicants who are already underrepresented in medicine). Read my former post for more thoughts on this. What follows below is the nitty gritty, but to summarize the two paragraphs: I was already applying MD this cycle (as a hail mary) and in the end without grade replacement I still got accepted to an MD school; so losing grade replacement isn't necessarily the end of the world. Strongly consider applying to schools with holistic review processes, including allopathic.

What I didn't say in my earlier post was that I had already decided to give this cycle an attempt. Since allopathic schools don't do grade replacement, it hardly seemed necessary to totally complete the second year of post-bac before applying; I figured it wouldn't it matter if I had a 2.8sGPA or a 2.93sGPA, they'd see my indicated courses for the year, and could decide for themselves if they wanted to care about my cumulative GPA or just the post-bac trajectory. I didn't think much would come of it, but you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. The plan had been that when my post-bac was done, and grade replacement made all of those prior struggles "disappear" from my calculated GPA (but of course not from my transcripts), and I hadn't gotten into any allopathic schools, I would apply next cycle (aka 2 months from now) to osteopathic schools and maybe give a few of the allopathic schools I really liked yet one more shot. Using grade replacement I'd be applying with a 3.8 or 3.9sGPA/cGPA, an MCAT a bit above the 90th percentile, and I figured I'd be a strong candidate at osteopathic schools (along with my ECs of course, which I think are my strongest asset). The grade replacement policy change ruined this plan.

The same day I made my earlier post, I was hastily calculating what my GPA would be for this cycle if I completed an AACOMAS app right this minute. It was pretty good still (3.7) since I was just a few months away from being done with my diy-grade-replacement-postbac. I sent my transcripts to AACOMAS, entered all my grades, and held my breath they wouldn't give me hassle about the grade replacement stuff (since my replacement courses were at a new institution and thus the course numbers were different and so on). I applied incredibly late in the cycle to the DO schools that I was already enamored with, and found that indeed I was a strong candidate (as far as receiving IIs go). I'd also already received a few IIs from MD schools, and I attended those. Unlike DO, I didn't IIs at 100% of the MD schools I secondaried. (Imagine that.) I had to apply broadly, and I don't think I'd have had any chance without my MCAT score. I was basically hoping for schools that liked reinvention and non-trads. And where (according to MSAR) my cGPA wasn't too far below their 10th percentile and my MCAT might be at or beyond their 90th. Obviously for schools like Duke I wasn't gonna reach this goal, but for places like Rush it was closer, and any of them might see something special in me. I missed the Rush sGPA cutoff for interview by an incredibly small margin (my sGPA is crap from past science struggles, my cGPA is only partial crap, so this is how my cGPA can be at some schools' 10th %ile but sGPA below cutoff at Rush). Respect to Rush for saying in the rejection e-mail what sGPA was required this cycle for an II based on the competitiveness of the applicant cohort.

I applied (primary) to ~30 MD schools. Maybe 3 screened me out pre-secondary. I completed secondaries for 20 of the 27 schools. (Why the missing 7? One example, USF Morsani, which seemed mission-driven toward the underserved and appealed to me, asked you to explain every grade B- and below, and by that point in my essay writing I was just too burned out. For a few others I learned something about the school I didn't like in the intervening time). All of this got me three interviews with MD schools (one of which was a top program and the other two were 'schools with a state in their name' that came to my attention during research for being holistic in review process, or mission-driven, etc, and of course I didn't apply to "University of [state]" schools unless they took a pretty significant proportion of the student body from OoS). Of the MD schools: one rejected me, one accepted me, and I didn't attend the third interview. My acceptance was at a school that had become my top choice (felt like a perfect fit), so there was zero need for me to attend any further interviews (MD or DO), and now zero need to go another cycle. I honestly cannot believe this has happened, and I am now suddenly done working crazy crazy hard just to get a shot at a seat, and now I can work crazy crazy hard to become a physician. Nothing has ever meant so much to me as the opportunity to do the latter.

If I'd not applied DO hastily, and hadn't already been applying MD as a longshot, I was going to apply DO for the upcoming cycle, as well as retake my MCAT to push into the 520+ range (which would have made me more attractive to Duke and similar schools, I think ... Harvard office of diversity sent me a letter in the mail encouraging me to apply ... I gather that was because they paid AAMC for contact info for high scoring MCAT takers who also checked a box that indicated a 'diverse' background they feel would enrich their student body [I am not URM; there are other 'diversity things' in the primary] ... but in the end my MCAT wasn't above their average matriculant, so I don't think I stood out enough). I guess I'm writing this to say, basically, to everyone who thinks this rule change is the end of the world, please remember that some schools will be dedicated to finding the right candidates to meet their mission; to training a diverse body of physicians who intrinsically care about serving others. These schools will understand that sometimes the best candidates are the ones who haven't done everything perfectly and who have a few scrapes, but who also have a better understanding of what it's like to fall down and wonder if you'll be able to get back up. Go find these schools, and don't worry about the letters on the degree they'll award you. If you're truly committed to serving others and to medicine, there are MD and DO schools that will want you. It's a shame that the policy changed and there's no longer a turnkey path to making yourself a competitive candidate across the board to a huge number of schools, but in the end there were probably many of these schools where you might've gotten in (with grade replacement) and found it wasn't a good fit. The silver lining here is that although you'll have to work harder now, I'm hopeful that this means the fit will be better.

I'm so happy for you!

You raise a great point, in that the policy change will force those who don't have the most glowing record to find the program that is the best fit. You'll have to work for it, but whoever selects you, if you are so fortunate, will likely be the right school for you.

 

[Harry Dunn]

How likely is it that any DO schools will do their own personal calculations for grade replacements? I know it's still early on, but planning takes months/years so I, along with others would like to know the best course of action.

How likely is it that any DO schools will do their own personal calculations for grade replacements? I know it's still early on, but planning takes months/years so I, along with others would like to know the best course of action.

I know that Touro Nevada is doing their own calculations if you do their MHS program. I heard that if the you do the 1 year MHS program then apply to the DO program, your undergrad grades are looked at as the best score instead of using the new AACOMAS policy. So if you repeated a class or classes multiple times, they take the best grade given. A good way to still get in to medical school if you are worried about repeated coursework

 

[Doc_Ock]

The interesting thing in the letter was that they mentioned their lawyers twice. I think they are worried about getting sued. Given that they were giving grade replacement advice last week and this was in the works for a while, I can see why they would be concerned.

They suggest that the mean won't change but that ignores that this will have a dramatic affect on the aggressive replacers. I'd be curious who they tend to be. My suspicion is that this will hurt nontrads more and create classes more like MD demographics but with lower averages.
Sudden implementation of this policy seems unnecessarily cruel. Schools won't have the manpower or interest to recalculate grades.

Pretty cruel to have done this without warning.

I'm one of those "aggressive replacers" and it affects me dramatically

 

[Doc_Ock]

AACOMAS never guaranteed anyone a spot at a DO program just for repeating coursework. Attorneys won't do jack. It amazes me how so many millenials think they are "owed" a spot at a DO program just because you retook a couple classes.
You will all be fine. None of you know how admissions committes work. They will STILL see that you remediates classes and you improved your score. Remediation science classes will also help with the MCAT. This step by AACOMAS was necessary because different DO schools had different policies with retakes and how many retakes were accepted, etc. This evens out the playing field for statistical purposes. You all have to relax and keep doing what you're doing and apply. But this entitled attitude of most of the posts here is both shocking and discomforting. The application process for DO schools is holistic and they just don't look at GPA alone. Just because you took a few retake classes NEVER meant you were going to waltz into a DO program. The AOA/AACOMAS/COMs don't owe you anything because you retook classes and no school guarantees you acceptance if you retook classes or got a higher GPA. You made that adult decision knowing it was a gamble but confident it would help with your professional careers. So be confident in that judgement and keep working hard and applying and hope for the best. Honestly, these whinny posts with change.org and whatnot are sad and make you all look pathetic, desperate, and very immature. If these kinds of tones or attitudes were displayed as a medical student or, worse, a resident, you would be sitting in front of an ethics committee or worse. If you want to be doctors, act like doctors.

Wow, so screw everyone who spent years of their lives and out themselves in debt because of a policy that was suddenly taken from them with no warning? You make me sick. No one here feels entitled.

 

[Doc_Ock]

the scores may not drop that much but only because many applicants won't bother applying now. "There are three kinds of lies. Lies, damn lies, and statistics."

 

[Doc_Ock]

But DOs and MDs don't have the same training, as osteopathic schools lack the resources that are available to allopathic students. I can count by fingers the number of DO schools that have a teaching hospital. The fact that there is a bias against DOs isn't because they use grade replacement, but the fact that DO students aren't as well trained during their clinical years. Spending your core rotations at a preceptor based location in the middle of no where Alabama won't give you enough knowledge and hands on experience to compete with MD counterparts that are getting their education in a ward with fellow residents.
If you want to set the standards as equal to allopathic schools, then DO schools shouldn't accept applicants with MCAT scores below 28-29 range, but DO schools accept students with scores even below 26. If ya ask me, MCAT scores should be weighted more than a GPA, as the correlation between the score and board scores is far more relevant than a 4 year GPA with tons of GPA booster classes that are being taken.

The focus should have been on improving the quality of rotations, stopping new DO schools from popping up in every corner, making sure that those weak AOA residency programs won't be closing down after the merger with ACGME. Nobody is disagreeing with the fact that the standards should be equal, but the abrupt change in policy while giving future applicants a 5 month window is ridiculous. This change in policy should be used by students in a positive way, enroll in an SMP and ace it, score a good MCAT then go ahead and apply allopathic.

Your ignorance is astounding.

 

[DerArzt321]

Well. I'm screwed. I literally spent 2 years retaking a whole bunch of classes from my stupid early college career. With retakes, I would have had a 3.7 cGPA and a3.6 sGPA. I would have been competitive at any osteopathic school, even with my mediocre MCAT. Now, I'm stuck with a 3.27 cGPA and a 3.07 sGPA no matter what I do. My MCAT is 505. And I can't apply this cycle until September (re-taking late July MCAT). @Goro am I done? Should I just do pod or law or something? This is crushing news for me...

 

[Cardboard101]

Well. I'm screwed. I literally spent 2 years retaking a whole bunch of classes from my stupid early college career. With retakes, I would have had a 3.7 cGPA and a3.6 sGPA. I would have been competitive at any osteopathic school, even with my mediocre MCAT. Now, I'm stuck with a 3.27 cGPA and a 3.07 sGPA no matter what I do. My MCAT is 505. And I can't apply this cycle until September (re-taking late July MCAT). @Goro am I done? Should I just do pod or law or something? This is crushing news for me...

You've got a pretty good shot with that GPA and I assume 2 years of 3.5+ gpa (+ecs). If you can get a 507, AZCOM is still doing manual grade replacement, PCOM is as well.

 

[Goro]

Read this:
Goro’s advice for DO applicants in the absence of grade replacement

Well. I'm screwed. I literally spent 2 years retaking a whole bunch of classes from my stupid early college career. With retakes, I would have had a 3.7 cGPA and a3.6 sGPA. I would have been competitive at any osteopathic school, even with my mediocre MCAT. Now, I'm stuck with a 3.27 cGPA and a 3.07 sGPA no matter what I do. My MCAT is 505. And I can't apply this cycle until September (re-taking late July MCAT). @Goro am I done? Should I just do pod or law or something? This is crushing news for me...

 

[Doc_Ock]

Well. I'm screwed. I literally spent 2 years retaking a whole bunch of classes from my stupid early college career. With retakes, I would have had a 3.7 cGPA and a3.6 sGPA. I would have been competitive at any osteopathic school, even with my mediocre MCAT. Now, I'm stuck with a 3.27 cGPA and a 3.07 sGPA no matter what I do. My MCAT is 505. And I can't apply this cycle until September (re-taking late July MCAT). @Goro am I done? Should I just do pod or law or something? This is crushing news for me...

Try this upcoming cycle anyway. If you have good experiences and killer LOR's you may still have a shot. Or do a SMP

 

[DRHRT]

what if my transcript doen't show the grade i recieved the first time, it only shows the rtake-grade

 

[Doc_Ock]

what if my transcript doen't show the grade i recieved the first time, it only shows the rtake-grade

That's awesome!!! Though I've never heard of a transcript working like that.

 

[DRHRT]

yes the transcript says R for repeat next to it

 

[DRHRT]

Then the grade next to the second time i took the class

 

[DRHRT]

That's awesome!!! Though I've never heard of a transcript working like that.

"Repeated Course. Indicates that the student has repeated a course in which a grade of C-, D or F had been received. Original grade is not counted towards GPA. Students may only repeat a course in which they have earned a grade of C-, D or F. To repeat a course more than once, a student must obtain the permission of the Director of Academic Advisement or the Registrar. Repeated courses may not be taken as courses-by-appointment. Repeated courses MUST BE taken at STAC so that the original grade may be replaced in the cumulative grade point. The original grade is not counted toward GPA."

 

[DerArzt321]

Dang it. This is precisely why my GPA remains so shot. I still have a D and an F in 2 UL bio classes. I retook them at another university and got As in them. But, they remian on my transcript! I'd have to go back to the original university to 'repair' my transcript!? Is there really no way to work around this? @Goro any advice considering this new info? What's particularly frustrating is that I was even wary of this 2 years ago. If AACOMAS had just given us fair warning, I wouldn't be up poop creek without a paddle!

"Repeated Course. Indicates that the student has repeated a course in which a grade of C-, D or F had been received. Original grade is not counted towards GPA. Students may only repeat a course in which they have earned a grade of C-, D or F. To repeat a course more than once, a student must obtain the permission of the Director of Academic Advisement or the Registrar. Repeated courses may not be taken as courses-by-appointment. Repeated courses MUST BE taken at STAC so that the original grade may be replaced in the cumulative grade point. The original grade is not counted toward GPA."

 

[Goro]

Pay attention: read this post.

You do NOT have to take any coursework at your UG school...any school will do.

Now quit fussing and start showing the you of now is not the you of then.

Dang it. This is precisely why my GPA remains so shot. I still have a D and an F in 2 UL bio classes. I retook them at another university and got As in them. But, they remian on my transcript! I'd have to go back to the original university to 'repair' my transcript!? Is there really no way to work around this? @Goro any advice considering this new info? What's particularly frustrating is that I was even wary of this 2 years ago. If AACOMAS had just given us fair warning, I wouldn't be up poop creek without a paddle!

 

[DerArzt321]

ok. @DRHRT I don't suppose those are the only two unis that are doing grade-replacement? I will probably apply to those only and a few of the newer schools. I've got to get in somewhere, right?

 

[doit4humanity]

Might be a redundant question but does anyone know if Math will be calculated into sgpa for DO school now?

 

[Yhorm the Giant]

Might be a redundant question but does anyone know if Math will be calculated into sgpa for DO school now?

Not from what I've heard

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[Doc_Ock]

Not from what I've heard

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Why wouldn't it? BPCM. M stands for math. Am I missing something?

 

[Yhorm the Giant]

Why wouldn't it? BPCM. M stands for math. Am I missing something?

Maybe I'm the one missing something then, because I don't recall when AACOMAS said it would start using BPCM, just that it would end grade replacement. If you could point out to me where they said that so that I can spiral downward into sadness I would appreciate it. I am currently under the impression that DO and MD still consider science GPA courses a little bit differently from each other, like you pointed out AMCAS uses BPCM, whereas AACOMAS just calls it a science GPA and has some classes that count and some that don't count differently from their counterpart.

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[Doc_Ock]

DO schools do not factor math courses into sGPA.

Ah. I thought they did. In that case how do they calculate it? Though some schools on AACOMAS do ask for it in their application.

 

[Yhorm the Giant]

Ah. I thought they did. In that case how do they calculate it? Though some schools on AACOMAS do ask for it in their application.

Oh really? Do you know which ones? Or any? I'd be interested to know.

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[justcallmeK]

Just wanted to tell you to stay strong, I'm in a similar boat re GPA and i'm not going to let it stop me from applying. My gpa is the only weak part of my application and it's worth taking a chance. Not only was I in a really bad place when I started college, I went to UC Berkeley which trashed my GPA. I'm just going to take the cards I've been dealt and do everything else I can.

I am so full of emotions right now about this abrupt change in policy. Most of us realize that we aren't owed a spot in any program. This is why we have dedicated years of effort in attempting to become competitive applicants. Earlier today, within less than a minute, I realized that I went from being a competitive applicant to having not much chance at all. Even as I write this I am still in shock. I just want to share my story.

I am also a non-traditional applicant like many of you. College began just like high school ended. I was in a very bad spot in life following my parents divorce. I had no life stability, lived on my own and every time I enrolled in school I found myself either having to move or change jobs. With no financial assistance and struggling to find the stability I needed in life I accumulated a total of 18 W's and a 0.85 GPA from 2002-2006. At the time I had no intention of becoming a medical professional. I was simply trying to survive. After 2006 I took a considerable amount of time off attempting to be successful in college. Eventually I found my calling at the time through fitness. I became a personal trainer and was very successful at helping my clients make life changes.

After finding some stability in life I decided to go back to school. I re-took all of the classes I failed and fixed my transcripts. It wasn't perfect, but I got my AA and took all of my Bio pre-requisites. During this time I brought my GPA up to a respectable 3.4, with forgiveness of course. I still didn't think I every had any chance at becoming a physician. All I knew was that I had a gift for helping people. It was evident by the impact I was able to make on the lives of so many of my clients. Life was still challenging though, I went through a marriage and a divorce within one year. In 2012 I was denied admittance by the university I now attend. The Bio adviser told me to my face that she didn't think I was cut out for a degree in Biology.

A year later I finally was given an opportunity at a satellite campus when I was accepted into their Biology program. No longer in financial stress, I finished all my upper levels with a 3.89 GPA and graduated with a BS in Bio and a minor in biophysics. Currently I haven't received anything lower than an A- in any science course since transferring. At this university I had the opportunity to become very involved in extracurricular activities (pre-med club, student government, president of triathlon club, computational biology club). I also trained one of my clients who was a 60 year old woman with Crohn's disease to complete an Ironman triathlon with me. During the training her symptoms went into remission and she has been symptom free for over 2 years. I got a second job as a tutor and ended up tutoring kids at a local children's hospital. When I graduated, my GPA which was once a 0.85 was now a 3.51 cGPA. My sGPA is a 3.49. I knew my application still needed work to overcome the tremendous blemish so I applied and was accepted to a SMP where I am now currently enrolled.

I have a 3.91 in the SMP and am planning to apply this cycle. With everything I have accomplished I felt that I finally had a good chance at being admitted. Many of my friends and peers have been accepted or are currently attending MD and DO programs. Even though I am now 32, they all consider me an equal. It probably doesn't hurt that I am in great physical shape and look like I am 25. I out perform many of them in class. I always knew I would have an uphill battle, but because they don't know the severity of my transcript issues they all assume that I will get accepted somewhere and that I worry too much.

Today my AACOMAS GPA went from a 3.54 cGPA to a 2.44. I'm only mad at myself for allowing myself to be in this position in the first place. I know that I didn't get to this point in life only to allow myself to quit on my dream just because of a policy change. Even though my chances of being accepted to a DO school are now bleak, I will not give up. Hey, my mothers primary went to St. George's and loved it. Wherever I end up I will continue to give it everything I have and more. Life never ends up exactly the way you planned. Obstacles like this will define who you become and only prove how hard you are willing to work. Where there is a will... there is a way.

Just wanted to share and get these feeling off my chest. I wish you all the best of luck in accomplishing your dreams!

 

[SirTangy]

So I called AZCOM today to find out how grade replacement will work. It will only be available to those with a 507/29 AND a 3.0 sGPA and cGPA. To me it seems to defeat the purpose of still having grade replacement if they are gonna use GPA as a requirement to do grade replacement.

 

[FutureDoc3094]

An update/anecdote, for those who might feel discouraged:

I posted to this thread in January (here), shortly after the policy change was made public talking about how I was at the tail end of a two year DIY post-bac to redeem some academic struggles I'd had long before. I felt, and continue to feel, that this policy change is a mistake that is inequitable (it disproportionately affects applicants with disadvantaged backgrounds and applicants who are already underrepresented in medicine). Read my former post for more thoughts on this. What follows below is the nitty gritty, but to summarize the two paragraphs: I was already applying MD this cycle (as a hail mary) and in the end without grade replacement I still got accepted to an MD school; so losing grade replacement isn't necessarily the end of the world. Strongly consider applying to schools with holistic review processes, including allopathic.

What I didn't say in my earlier post was that I had already decided to give this cycle an attempt. Since allopathic schools don't do grade replacement, it hardly seemed necessary to totally complete the second year of post-bac before applying; I figured it wouldn't it matter if I had a 2.8sGPA or a 2.93sGPA, they'd see my indicated courses for the year, and could decide for themselves if they wanted to care about my cumulative GPA or just the post-bac trajectory. I didn't think much would come of it, but you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. The plan had been that when my post-bac was done, and grade replacement made all of those prior struggles "disappear" from my calculated GPA (but of course not from my transcripts), and I hadn't gotten into any allopathic schools, I would apply next cycle (aka 2 months from now) to osteopathic schools and maybe give a few of the allopathic schools I really liked yet one more shot. Using grade replacement I'd be applying with a 3.8 or 3.9sGPA/cGPA, an MCAT a bit above the 90th percentile, and I figured I'd be a strong candidate at osteopathic schools (along with my ECs of course, which I think are my strongest asset). The grade replacement policy change ruined this plan.

The same day I made my earlier post, I was hastily calculating what my GPA would be for this cycle if I completed an AACOMAS app right this minute. It was pretty good still (3.7) since I was just a few months away from being done with my diy-grade-replacement-postbac. I sent my transcripts to AACOMAS, entered all my grades, and held my breath they wouldn't give me hassle about the grade replacement stuff (since my replacement courses were at a new institution and thus the course numbers were different and so on). I applied incredibly late in the cycle to the DO schools that I was already enamored with, and found that indeed I was a strong candidate (as far as receiving IIs go). I'd also already received a few IIs from MD schools, and I attended those. Unlike DO, I didn't IIs at 100% of the MD schools I secondaried. (Imagine that.) I had to apply broadly, and I don't think I'd have had any chance without my MCAT score. I was basically hoping for schools that liked reinvention and non-trads. And where (according to MSAR) my cGPA wasn't too far below their 10th percentile and my MCAT might be at or beyond their 90th. Obviously for schools like Duke I wasn't gonna reach this goal, but for places like Rush it was closer, and any of them might see something special in me. I missed the Rush sGPA cutoff for interview by an incredibly small margin (my sGPA is crap from past science struggles, my cGPA is only partial crap, so this is how my cGPA can be at some schools' 10th %ile but sGPA below cutoff at Rush). Respect to Rush for saying in the rejection e-mail what sGPA was required this cycle for an II based on the competitiveness of the applicant cohort.

I applied (primary) to ~30 MD schools. Maybe 3 screened me out pre-secondary. I completed secondaries for 20 of the 27 schools. (Why the missing 7? One example, USF Morsani, which seemed mission-driven toward the underserved and appealed to me, asked you to explain every grade B- and below, and by that point in my essay writing I was just too burned out. For a few others I learned something about the school I didn't like in the intervening time). All of this got me three interviews with MD schools (one of which was a top program and the other two were 'schools with a state in their name' that came to my attention during research for being holistic in review process, or mission-driven, etc, and of course I didn't apply to "University of [state]" schools unless they took a pretty significant proportion of the student body from OoS). Of the MD schools: one rejected me, one accepted me, and I didn't attend the third interview. My acceptance was at a school that had become my top choice (felt like a perfect fit), so there was zero need for me to attend any further interviews (MD or DO), and now zero need to go another cycle. I honestly cannot believe this has happened, and I am now suddenly done working crazy crazy hard just to get a shot at a seat, and now I can work crazy crazy hard to become a physician. Nothing has ever meant so much to me as the opportunity to do the latter.

If I'd not applied DO hastily, and hadn't already been applying MD as a longshot, I was going to apply DO for the upcoming cycle, as well as retake my MCAT to push into the 520+ range (which would have made me more attractive to Duke and similar schools, I think ... Harvard office of diversity sent me a letter in the mail encouraging me to apply ... I gather that was because they paid AAMC for contact info for high scoring MCAT takers who also checked a box that indicated a 'diverse' background they feel would enrich their student body [I am not URM; there are other 'diversity things' in the primary] ... but in the end my MCAT wasn't above their average matriculant, so I don't think I stood out enough). I guess I'm writing this to say, basically, to everyone who thinks this rule change is the end of the world, please remember that some schools will be dedicated to finding the right candidates to meet their mission; to training a diverse body of physicians who intrinsically care about serving others. These schools will understand that sometimes the best candidates are the ones who haven't done everything perfectly and who have a few scrapes, but who also have a better understanding of what it's like to fall down and wonder if you'll be able to get back up. Go find these schools, and don't worry about the letters on the degree they'll award you. If you're truly committed to serving others and to medicine, there are MD and DO schools that will want you. It's a shame that the policy changed and there's no longer a turnkey path to making yourself a competitive candidate across the board to a huge number of schools, but in the end there were probably many of these schools where you might've gotten in (with grade replacement) and found it wasn't a good fit. The silver lining here is that although you'll have to work harder now, I'm hopeful that this means the fit will be better.

Hi! Would it be okay if I PM'd you some questions? Thanks

 

[Chromatic543]

Should I even apply anymore?

cGPA (grade replace) = 3.46
sGPA (grade replace) = 3.38
cGPA = 3.22
sGPA = 3.22
MCAT = 502 (126-124-126-126)

I have about 900 hours of clinical experience (taking care of patients with dementia and cooking for patients with physical limitations, hospital volunteering, and Medical Brigade/mission)

I am applying to ALL DO schools, and have a DO LOR.

 

[ill be a doc soon]

 

[Doc_Ock]

Should I even apply anymore?

cGPA (grade replace) = 3.46
sGPA (grade replace) = 3.38
cGPA = 3.22
sGPA = 3.22
MCAT = 502 (126-124-126-126)

I have about 900 hours of clinical experience (taking care of patients with dementia and cooking for patients with physical limitations, hospital volunteering, and Medical Brigade/mission)

I am applying to ALL DO schools, and have a DO LOR.

You'd have to craft some great essays and nail your interview but you have a shot.

 

[JoeCaputo]

Oh really? Do you know which ones? Or any? I'd be interested to know.

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Touro and Rowan from the schools I applied to.

 

[Premed3877]

Hey everyone,

So I am actually thinking of applying to osteopathic medical school in the next few months and wanted to know your opinion and ask for advice.

I graduated from luc with a bs in biology with a concentration in molecular biology. I graduated in 2015 with a 3.0 cumulative and science gpa. Through those years I mostly had a lot of B's. I did have to retake organic chemistry II about 3 times.

The following year, I retook all of my classes that had a c or lower in them at 3 different community colleges in a single semester. With grade replacement my gpa would have been 3.3.

This year I completed a biomedical science masters at kcu and will end up with a gpa of 3.3. I feel as with a gpa this low I may not have a chance at medical school any longer. I wanted your opinion as to if i should take the chance and apply or is there there something else that i can do to raise my gpa?

As for my extracurricular activites, I have been involved in multiple cultural organizations since I was in high school. They include :

• 1 nonprofit that raises money for a home for the destitutes in northern India [ i helped raised money, plan events, and performed]
• a group that looks to spread awareness of my culture [ performer and later dance coordinator]
• a religious Sunday school [ teacher assitant]
• a religious camp [ initially as a camper, but now a teacher]
• member of my temple
• dermatology club [ this year]
• volunteered at a hospital in various depts [ over 300 hours]
• optician [1 year]
• ophthalmolic technition [ few months, until i moved to missouri]
• volunteered at retirement community [ over 100 hours]
• shadowed 3 doctors [ over 200 hours] and still shadowing
• aided in mission to Haiti [ie. Prepared everything the Dr. needed for her trip, gathered supplies, organized and packed all materials]

Have great letters of rec, all from kcu

As for the following gap year, at this point planning on taking an emt course and volunteering in research lab.

Mcat score is 512, planning on retaking it to see if i can get it higher.

Thank you for all your help and advice in advance.




1

 

[darkeon]

Hey everyone,

So I am actually thinking of applying to osteopathic medical school in the next few months and wanted to know your opinion and ask for advice.

I graduated from luc with a bs in biology with a concentration in molecular biology. I graduated in 2015 with a 3.0 cumulative and science gpa. Through those years I mostly had a lot of B's. I did have to retake organic chemistry II about 3 times.

The following year, I retook all of my classes that had a c or lower in them at 3 different community colleges in a single semester. With grade replacement my gpa would have been 3.3.

This year I completed a biomedical science masters at kcu and will end up with a gpa of 3.3. I feel as with a gpa this low I may not have a chance at medical school any longer. I wanted your opinion as to if i should take the chance and apply or is there there something else that i can do to raise my gpa?

As for my extracurricular activites, I have been involved in multiple cultural organizations since I was in high school. They include :

• 1 nonprofit that raises money for a home for the destitutes in northern India [ i helped raised money, plan events, and performed]
• a group that looks to spread awareness of my culture [ performer and later dance coordinator]
• a religious Sunday school [ teacher assitant]
• a religious camp [ initially as a camper, but now a teacher]
• member of my temple
• dermatology club [ this year]
• volunteered at a hospital in various depts [ over 300 hours]
• optician [1 year]
• ophthalmolic technition [ few months, until i moved to missouri]
• volunteered at retirement community [ over 100 hours]
• shadowed 3 doctors [ over 200 hours] and still shadowing
• aided in mission to Haiti [ie. Prepared everything the Dr. needed for her trip, gathered supplies, organized and packed all materials]

Have great letters of rec, all from kcu

As for the following gap year, at this point planning on taking an emt course and volunteering in research lab.

Mcat score is 512, planning on retaking it to see if i can get it higher.

Thank you for all your help and advice in advance.




1

no expert here man...but I would say don't retake a 512. it's a pretty solid score for DO

 

[ill be a doc soon]

Hey everyone,

So I am actually thinking of applying to osteopathic medical school in the next few months and wanted to know your opinion and ask for advice.

I graduated from luc with a bs in biology with a concentration in molecular biology. I graduated in 2015 with a 3.0 cumulative and science gpa. Through those years I mostly had a lot of B's. I did have to retake organic chemistry II about 3 times.

The following year, I retook all of my classes that had a c or lower in them at 3 different community colleges in a single semester. With grade replacement my gpa would have been 3.3.

This year I completed a biomedical science masters at kcu and will end up with a gpa of 3.3. I feel as with a gpa this low I may not have a chance at medical school any longer. I wanted your opinion as to if i should take the chance and apply or is there there something else that i can do to raise my gpa?

As for my extracurricular activites, I have been involved in multiple cultural organizations since I was in high school. They include :

• 1 nonprofit that raises money for a home for the destitutes in northern India [ i helped raised money, plan events, and performed]
• a group that looks to spread awareness of my culture [ performer and later dance coordinator]
• a religious Sunday school [ teacher assitant]
• a religious camp [ initially as a camper, but now a teacher]
• member of my temple
• dermatology club [ this year]
• volunteered at a hospital in various depts [ over 300 hours]
• optician [1 year]
• ophthalmolic technition [ few months, until i moved to missouri]
• volunteered at retirement community [ over 100 hours]
• shadowed 3 doctors [ over 200 hours] and still shadowing
• aided in mission to Haiti [ie. Prepared everything the Dr. needed for her trip, gathered supplies, organized and packed all materials]

Have great letters of rec, all from kcu

As for the following gap year, at this point planning on taking an emt course and volunteering in research lab.

Mcat score is 512, planning on retaking it to see if i can get it higher.

Thank you for all your help and advice in advance.




1

You have a solid MCAT, but your SMP grades arent that solid. Did KCU's SMP have some linkage or atleast an interview guarantee? I would say with the retakes you did before the SMP, and with the SMP itself, combined with your great MCAT, you do have a chance if you apply. Personally, I dont think taking more courses would be worth it. Apply broadly, focus on newer DO schools.

 

[harkas]

You've got a pretty good shot with that GPA and I assume 2 years of 3.5+ gpa (+ecs). If you can get a 507, AZCOM is still doing manual grade replacement, PCOM is as well.

Has this been confirmed by PCOM? The wording on the website is very vague.

 

[ill be a doc soon]

Has this been confirmed by PCOM? The wording on the website is very vague.

It doesn't say they are doing grade replacement, it just says their admissions process hasn't changed in response to this rule change. Therefore, if you had a 3.5 with grade replacement and a 2.9 without, that means these two gpas are viewed equally... right?


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