Forum Members ABFAS/ABPM

[newpodgrad]

Hey guys

While looking for jobs , I inquired with a few local hospitals about how to go about getting privileges.

Several of them sent me info and I wanted to highlight a board concern.

Not sure how to really take it, but here’s a excerpt from one of the docs re: board status.

“Board Certification Requirement means certification from one of the following boards: the American Board of Medical Specialties, the American Osteopathic Association, the American Board of Foot and Ankle Surgery, or those Boards which may be approved by the Executive Committee to satisfy this Requirement”

As a disclaimer, I’m not a HUGE surgery pod. I enjoyed it , and did it in residency because, well, that’s what we had to do. And I’m fine with my forefoot procedures. I believe I’ve done well with them at my current level. I don’t care to do TARS, scopes mid foot fusions etc. I have no problem referring them out. I took the ABFAS qualifying tests etc, because again, it’s encouraged in residency and passed them.

Looking at this doc, it almost seems like this board required if you wanted to be on staff. The little statement at the end regarding “or those boards” seems like it might open the door for ABPM with some petitioning or something.

What do you guys make of this? I have heard from others that ABPM will get involved with issues regarding privileges etc. Is there more to this picture than meets the eye?

Thanks in advance for everyone’s take

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[newpodgrad]

I did take a non surgical job. And I’m ok with that. The last 3 years have been rough. The moment I took this job my wife became ok looking at houses. After 3 years of finding any reason to reject a house we have an accepted offer across the street from the elementary school in a nice suburb. It’s time to settle down.

Good for you man. Finding that peace is truly priceless .

At the end of the day we need to embrace what we are…podiatrists! We’re not orthopedics and the sooner we become comfortable in our own skin and stop trying to fight the establishment, the sooner we can all find that “peace”.

 

[JewOnThis]

I did take a non surgical job. And I’m ok with that. The last 3 years have been rough. The moment I took this job my wife became ok looking at houses. After 3 years of finding any reason to reject a house we have an accepted offer across the street from the elementary school in a nice suburb. It’s time to settle down.

That’s great man. I recently turned down a high paying position (non surgical) which was offered “under the table” at a really good city. I kind of regret it. Hopefully, it was taken by a nice pod.

 

[DYK343]

I did take a non surgical job. And I’m ok with that. The last 3 years have been rough. The moment I took this job my wife became ok looking at houses. After 3 years of finding any reason to reject a house we have an accepted offer across the street from the elementary school in a nice suburb. It’s time to settle down.

Congrats. Sounds like a relatively stress free great life.

 

[Boba Foot]

Literally becoming a stereotype. "The only people who will want to restrict your privileges at a hospital will be other podiatrists"

Gotta love it when people bitch about "ortho hit jobs" and then they make it a point to sabotage others within our profession.

 

[dtrack22]

In my wound care clinic I don’t have a single visit that is worth 0 wRVU. In my ortho clinic today alone I had 6 post op visits, out of 24 total, which were each worth 0 wRVU.

I get paid well for how much (or really how little) I work and part of the reason they have no problem with my 70 clinic encounter, 3-5 surgical case, 3.5 day work week is because I generate OR facility fees. But financially, the person working in a group doing whatever conservative stuff they want, plus wound care, plus some amps/I&Ds/skin subs is going to do very well financially without the stress of cutting people open. Good for newfeet

 

[DYK343]

In my wound care clinic I don’t have a single visit that is worth 0 wRVU. In my ortho clinic today alone I had 6 post op visits, out of 24 total, which were each worth 0 wRVU.

I get paid well for how much (or really how little) I work and part of the reason they have no problem with my 70 clinic encounter, 3-5 surgical case, 3.5 day work week is because I generate OR facility fees. But financially, the person working in a group doing whatever conservative stuff they want, plus wound care, plus some amps/I&Ds/skin subs is going to do very well financially without the stress of cutting people open. Good for newfeet

Surgery pays nothing. Dtrack nailed it.
Newfeet is gonna crush it. And not take weekends.
...But TARs...

 

[air bud]

Gotta love it when people bitch about "ortho hit jobs" and then they make it a point to sabotage others within our profession.

Explain to me sabotage? A 3 year trained podiatrist that is asking for surgery privileges but over the course of 7 years was unwilling to find/unable to obtain an relatively minor amount of cases for review....I tell you what. I will make this rule if possible. It doesn't have to be current ABFAS. Just show me certified, one year of membership then let it lapse.

Seriously, read the first part of that and tell me what is unreasonable about it.

 

[GreenHousePub]

If you said you want to do an ankle fracture then bet your ass ortho is going to start researching and ask if you are ABFAS certified

Most of them have no clue what ABFAS even is, and even if they know they don't respect it. The RRA cert has only ever helped me out with jobs, never hospital privileges.

 

[DYK343]

Most of them have no clue what ABFAS even is, and even if they know they don't respect it. The RRA cert has only ever helped me out with jobs, never hospital privileges.

Do you do RRA at hospital?
I cant without qualify/cert

 

[newpodgrad]

Explain to me sabotage? A 3 year trained podiatrist that is asking for surgery privileges but over the course of 7 years was unwilling to find/unable to obtain an relatively minor amount of cases for review....I tell you what. I will make this rule if possible. It doesn't have to be current ABFAS. Just show me certified, one year of membership then let it lapse.

Seriously, read the first part of that and tell me what is unreasonable about it.

What about the low pass rates over the course of the exam?

 

[icebreaker32]

What about the low pass rates over the course of the exam?

The pass rate at times have seemed a bit too low. However, the same people that fail once make up a good portion of the people that fail many times.

Lets be honest, the schools will take about anyone. My guess is the ones struggling to pass probably did very poor on the MCAT. It would be interesting to see that correlation. I know there is a high correlation for law school with a low LSAT and not passing the Bar exam.

There will be a difficult test or two with many rigorous professions. Unlike a lot of things podiatrist do, the test is not trying to prevent competition from other podiatrists.

It will make your life easier by passing, but fortunately it will not be the end of your career if you do not pass.

 

[JewOnThis]

Do you do RRA at hospital?
I cant without qualify/cert

This applies to me as well, but i do know someone who is doing RRA without cert/qual.

 

[air bud]

What about the low pass rates over the course of the exam?

i failed the foot computer 2x. Foot boards 1x. Passed rearfoot both 1st try. Yes, fail rates are higher than probably should be. Take it again and hope some of it improves. i have many friends that are smart, have great training and have also failed parts. All of them eventually passed. As many have said, its the best we have.

 

[Shiyuan]

ABFAS be like

 

[tacoboutit]

i failed the foot computer 2x. Foot boards 1x. Passed rearfoot both 1st try. Yes, fail rates are higher than probably should be. Take it again and hope some of it improves. i have many friends that are smart, have great training and have also failed parts. All of them eventually passed. As many have said, its the best we have.

I graduated last year and I got very lucky. If you pass your ITE exams in the fall of your last year then it counts towards your BQ exam (the one you take in march). If you fail then no biggie you have a second chance in March. I passed both my RRA and foot CBPS but failed both didactic but passed it in March thankfully. It was beneficial to pass it while in residency since my program paid for my ABPM and ABFAS exams. Last year, ABPM was not offer in March like it usually is so I had to take it in October (after graduation) and had to study all over again which was painful..

 

[Pronation]

In my wound care clinic I don’t have a single visit that is worth 0 wRVU. In my ortho clinic today alone I had 6 post op visits, out of 24 total, which were each worth 0 wRVU.

I get paid well for how much (or really how little) I work and part of the reason they have no problem with my 70 clinic encounter, 3-5 surgical case, 3.5 day work week is because I generate OR facility fees. But financially, the person working in a group doing whatever conservative stuff they want, plus wound care, plus some amps/I&Ds/skin subs is going to do very well financially without the stress of cutting people open. Good for newfeet

Bingo. I barely generate more RVUs than the guy doing only what you mentioned above. He doesn’t take call, off on weekends, and doesn’t listen to the “my bunion surgery isn’t straight anymore” crap.

 

[wakaflocka88]

Speaking of cert, I know a few pods doing surgery without fluoro or expired fluoro licenses in my local hospital. And doing trauma when their residency training was ages ago. Ya, that’s scary.

 

[Feli]

i failed the foot computer 2x. Foot boards 1x. Passed rearfoot both 1st try. Yes, fail rates are higher than probably should be. Take it again and hope some of it improves. i have many friends that are smart, have great training and have also failed parts. All of them eventually passed. As many have said, its the best we have.

Same. The tests are grinding but fair... well worth making the time for. I know a lot of skilled classmates who have failed by a few questions or multi choice or CBPS... or screwed up their documentation on case submissions. All passed eventually.

I have probably taken more dang ABFAS than almost anyone...
-did my in-trainings with very high marks, back when they counted for nothing
-passed foot/rra qual finishing residency, I job-hopped and my cases were scattered... should have stuck out and got cert quicker.
-I'd graduated pre-2013 and could re-qual... passed 3/failed 1 of the four parts (I was overconfident since I'd scored high and had no probs in past, failed the RRA cases part, definitely a bit tougher studying many years after residency with limited study time in practice, and the cases choice lists format had changed a bit)
-passed the failed CBPS on next re-take to re-qual
-passed "new" CBPS (process changed again, and my orig passed CBPS didn't count)
-submitted cert cases

It is a pretty long process, and it is expensive... but I haven't seen anyone answer the question of what a better way would be than modeling our boards on ortho and other MD specialies. Or answer honestly that they'd want a DPM surgeon not qual/cert in the foot/rra doing their family's foot/rra surgery?

I will say that the smart way is to pass your qual, work MSG/hospital/ortho, stick with the job (or even a reasonably busy pod PP job) a few years to get a lot of cases fast, and pass cert/cases before they change the process or your education is too far in the rear view. Give yourself a surplus of cases for cert submit... but also a few years to possibly re-take/submit if needed. That's not at all what I did, but there are many ways to get it done.

 

[air bud]

Speaking of cert, I know a few pods doing surgery without fluoro or expired fluoro licenses in my local hospital. And doing trauma when their residency training was ages ago. Ya, that’s scary.

Wait flouro license what?

 

[DYK343]

Wait flouro license what?

some states (california, colorado, maybe a few more) require you to have a special license to take xrays or run a fluoro

 

[NatCh]

Wait flouro license what?

Busted! You're going down.

 

[air bud]

Busted! You're going down

The only license around these here parts is to kill the animal that came on to your property and hurt your animals.

 

[dtrack22]

The only license around these here parts is to kill the animal that came on to your property and hurt your animals.

You don’t need a license for that…just to shoot elk that aren’t on your property…

One of my reps and I drive around the outside of town shooting coyotes out of his truck with our suppressed rifles. No season. No limit. Just living the dream.

 

[Pronation]

You don’t need a license for that…just to shoot elk that aren’t on your property…

One of my reps and I drive around the outside of town shooting coyotes out of his truck with our suppressed rifles. No season. No limit. Just living the dream.

YEEEEEEEEHAW 🇨🇦

 

[GreenHousePub]

Do you do RRA at hospital?
I cant without qualify/cert

Yes, they didn't care about ABFAS, but I had to be proctored for three cases by an orthopedist (they wouldn't let a podiatrist).

 

[air bud]

Yes, they didn't care about ABFAS, but I had to be proctored for three cases by an orthopedist (they wouldn't let a podiatrist).

Cool. So about that poorly trained pod that isn't board certified doing cases at your facility.....how would you feel if that Ortho was proctoring then and then by default judging you and your ability to operate? We need to self regulate so that others outside of us don't do it. We are judged by the weakest amongst us not the strongest.

Edit - not judging. Dictating/enforcing. Which is the power they can often have.

Edit - oh wah wah who gives you the right to decide that....be glad it is me with that right and not Ortho will make it a blanket ruling and you are collateral damage.

 

[Weirdy]

We are judged by our weakest link.

Even as s**ty as ABFAS is to jump through their hoops and money grubbing hands- the point being made is SOME standard at its highest level is better than grey area.

And to OP, no disrespect but as a newpodgrad with surgical experience, i truly hope your residency prepared you much better than what you are letting off.... Prove me wrong. Figure out how to run a clinic and write about it. Figure out how to bill to the highest ethical level and write about it. Everything else you are saying tells me you have not researched msg v hospital v private v group practice v VA, ABFAS, certs vs qual, case logging, or even normal office procedures that generate income besides just an ingrown removal. You should know these things after 3 years whether your residency program teaches it to you or not.

 

[newpodgrad]

We are judged by our weakest link.

Even as s**ty as ABFAS is to jump through their hoops and money grubbing hands- the point being made is SOME standard at its highest level is better than grey area.

And to OP, no disrespect but as a newpodgrad with surgical experience, i truly hope your residency prepared you much better than what you are letting off.... Prove me wrong. Figure out how to run a clinic and write about it. Figure out how to bill to the highest ethical level and write about it. Everything else you are saying tells me you have not researched msg v hospital v private v group practice v VA, ABFAS, certs vs qual, case logging, or even normal office procedures that generate income besides just an ingrown removal. You should know these things after 3 years whether your residency program teaches it to you or not.

This is a public forum where people are free to ask questions , inquire and try to gain insight and knowledge from others. You don’t know my story nor do I know yours. If you have insightful information to share then by all means. No disrespect, but if you want to just come out and thump your chest, then this isn’t the place for that.

 

[Weirdy]

This is a public forum where people are free to ask questions , inquire and try to gain insight and knowledge from others. You don’t know my story nor do I know yours. If you have insightful information to share then by all means. No disrespect, but if you want to just come out and thump your chest, then this isn’t the place for that.

Am not thumping my chest. Even asked you to prove me wrong and will admit to it.

Your in office procedures besides ingrowns: US guided joint injections, woundcare if done efficiently enough, in office procedures such as tenotomies, cash pay procedures that aren't covered under insurance (nails with no class findings, custom orthotics, PRP injections etc)
Billing: find a podiatrist who isn't fraudulently billing. Sometimes this may take a low paying associate position for the first few years while you figure out how to bill, what to bill and what not to bill.

1. Solo from scratch: Do you have the means to take out a loan? Are you comfortable with being in the red/breaking even in the first 1-3 years? Where is your infrastructure? Are you able to do a majority of the physical work yourself? (floors, dry walling, ceiling, security cameras, Wifi/router/phone line/ punching ethernet cables) Do you have construction connections that aren't going to rip you off? Do you know the current market price for materials/labor? How's the plumbing? Where is the physical location of the office? Will the land you're building it on start to sink a year from now? What is the traffic volume like? Does it have a parking lot? Do you need to put in a ramp? Do you outright own the land or are renting? In office labs/XR or not? Where can you be on staff in the immediate vicinity to get patients into your office? What is the competition and will they play nice with you? Do you have hospitals nearby to take patients to surgery?
2. Buy existing office: you've gone over this and have very good answers. Patient load and those actually staying when you take over? How many on staff are plannning to leave and how much are they getting paid? Physical assets and inventory? EMR cost? Anything wrong with the infrastructure that you will need to fix 2-5 years out? What's the reputation of the current doc and have they burned bridges with those referring to you/those you will need to refer to? Have you looked at their actual overhead? Are they will to let you look at their books? Existing debt they are still paying off? Upgrades to the office you will need to make?
3. Associate ship: how many people have they hired and how long have those people stayed? Do their family have a say in how you run things? % collections after hitting x amount? Health benefits covered? Tail coverage? Non competes? Call schedule? Other physical locations 45min away you will have to cover? Scheduling conflicts? Asking buy in amount after x amount of years? Do they put any money back into the practice after overhead is paid or are they taking all of it?
4. Hospital gig (if any): length of contract? How many patients are you expected to crank through a day? Strong ortho presence that will affect what cases you can take to OR? Do they have an existing podiatrist or are you the first one?

Edit: After some reflection- I'm kind of an A-hole for calling you out like that. I don't know where you're coming from and you have years of experience on me. Hope you find the practice setting you want and continue to share to this forum.

 

[newpodgrad]

Am not thumping my chest. Even asked you to prove me wrong and will admit to it.

Your in office procedures besides ingrowns: US guided joint injections, woundcare if done efficiently enough, in office procedures such as tenotomies, cash pay procedures that aren't covered under insurance (nails with no class findings, custom orthotics, PRP injections etc)
Billing: find a podiatrist who isn't fraudulently billing. Sometimes this may take a low paying associate position for the first few years while you figure out how to bill, what to bill and what not to bill.

1. Solo from scratch: Do you have the means to take out a loan? Are you comfortable with being in the red/breaking even in the first 1-3 years? Where is your infrastructure? Are you able to do a majority of the physical work yourself? (floors, dry walling, ceiling, security cameras, Wifi/router/phone line/ punching ethernet cables) Do you have construction connections that aren't going to rip you off? Do you know the current market price for materials/labor? How's the plumbing? Where is the physical location of the office? Will the land you're building it on start to sink a year from now? What is the traffic volume like? Does it have a parking lot? Do you need to put in a ramp? Do you outright own the land or are renting? In office labs/XR or not? Where can you be on staff in the immediate vicinity to get patients into your office? What is the competition and will they play nice with you? Do you have hospitals nearby to take patients to surgery?
2. Buy existing office: you've gone over this and have very good answers. Patient load and those actually staying when you take over? How many on staff are plannning to leave and how much are they getting paid? Physical assets and inventory? EMR cost? Anything wrong with the infrastructure that you will need to fix 2-5 years out? What's the reputation of the current doc and have they burned bridges with those referring to you/those you will need to refer to? Have you looked at their actual overhead? Are they will to let you look at their books? Existing debt they are still paying off? Upgrades to the office you will need to make?
3. Associate ship: how many people have they hired and how long have those people stayed? Do their family have a say in how you run things? % collections after hitting x amount? Health benefits covered? Tail coverage? Non competes? Call schedule? Other physical locations 45min away you will have to cover? Scheduling conflicts? Asking buy in amount after x amount of years? Do they put any money back into the practice after overhead is paid or are they taking all of it?
4. Hospital gig (if any): length of contract? How many patients are you expected to crank through a day? Strong ortho presence that will affect what cases you can take to OR? Do they have an existing podiatrist or are you the first one?

Edit: After some reflection- I'm kind of an A-hole for calling you out like that. I don't know where you're coming from and you have years of experience on me. Hope you find the practice setting you want and continue to share to this forum.

Thank you for this post. Insightful and very helpful.

Also apologies is I myself seemed like an ass. Was not my intent .

 

[newpodgrad]

So I was reviewing the cert docs. Seems like cbps part 2 is just another version of part 1, which wasn’t terrible.

How have people found case review to be? It just seems like such a subjective graded exam. One person might not care about pedal hair documentation but the guy or gal next to him can be like oh they didn’t maention pedal hair. Points off


What goes into passing and failing these things? Obviously people can disagree on procedure choice etc. People can even disagree on final X-rays .

Just trying to understand what reviewers are gonna be looking for

 

[Weirdy]

So I was reviewing the cert docs. Seems like cbps part 2 is just another version of part 1, which wasn’t terrible.

How have people found case review to be? It just seems like such a subjective graded exam. One person might not care about pedal hair documentation but the guy or gal next to him can be like oh they didn’t maention pedal hair. Points off


What goes into passing and failing these things? Obviously people can disagree on procedure choice etc. People can even disagree on final X-rays .

Just trying to understand what reviewers are gonna be looking for

Some good info here:

ABPM and abfas exams

Besides board wizards and Watkins, crozer, prisms, what should one study for these exams?

forums.studentdoctor.net

CBPS II

Any advice on preparation of Part II Foot Surgery CBPS? Already failed once because of physical exam.

forums.studentdoctor.net

Some stuff here:

ABFAS forefoot only?

Wanted to drop by and see what your thoughts are in only taking the FOREFOOT ABFAS boards? I wanted to take the ABPM later this year and have heard mixed responses from previous grads that ABPM should be sufficient for hospital privileges etc.. Any point in taking ABFAS FOREFOOT only this year...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[DYK343]

So I was reviewing the cert docs. Seems like cbps part 2 is just another version of part 1, which wasn’t terrible.

How have people found case review to be? It just seems like such a subjective graded exam. One person might not care about pedal hair documentation but the guy or gal next to him can be like oh they didn’t maention pedal hair. Points off


What goes into passing and failing these things? Obviously people can disagree on procedure choice etc. People can even disagree on final X-rays .

Just trying to understand what reviewers are gonna be looking for

In reality no one knows exactly what they want.
If you do good work and have good notes and thought process you will pass.
If you have complications and manage them appropriately you will pass.

 

[newpodgrad]

Do insurance companies care about board certification during credentialing? Does having a certification speed the process up?

Does Type of board matter for insurance purposes

 

[PeaJay]

Do insurers care about certification?
- If I remember correctly, every one of the forms asks about board certification. So yes they care.

Will board certification expedite the process?
- No

Does the type of board certification matter?
- This topic has been covered… just get ABFAS and make your life easier. At minimum get ABPM.

 

[newpodgrad]

Do insurers care about certification?
- If I remember correctly, every one of the forms asks about board certification. So yes they care.

Will board certification expedite the process?
- No

Does the type of board certification matter?
- This topic has been covered… just get ABFAS and make your life easier. At minimum get ABPM.

You guys Make it sound like getting abfas is a breeze. I’m a PGY3, looking at options. If I started from scratch, I obviously would not have abfas for a while. While it is ultimately the goal to achieve abfas it’s not happening this year (which is when I need to start working). ABPM I can realistically achieve soon.

So that’s why I’m asking, making a life decision like this if I need to have that board right off the bat for credentialing.

 

[NatCh]

You guys Make it sound like getting abfas is a breeze. I’m a PGY3, looking at options. If I started from scratch, I obviously would not have abfas for a while. While it is ultimately the goal to achieve abfas it’s not happening this year (which is when I need to start working). ABPM I can realistically achieve soon.

So that’s why I’m asking, making a life decision like this if I need to have that board right off the bat for credentialing.

Insurance companies ask about board certification status but I don't know how much it weighs in when they consider adding your name or not. They might be asking "just cuz." I recall one application where they requested my curriculum vitae. No other insurance company had asked for it before. I didn't really feel like having to qualify myself to an insurance company so I pared it down to basically my name, address, school, residency and still got on their panel.

You won't have board certification for awhile but board qualified status works for credentialing at hospitals and surgery centers.

 

[heybrother]

What Natch said. You take the qualifier until you certify.

In fact, people love being board qualified soooo much they often list it on their websites for years after its expired.

 

[619]

ABFAS Statement on ABPM Certificate of Added Qualification in Podiatric Surgery The American Board of Foot and Ankle Surgery (ABFAS) is the only recognized certifying board for foot and ankle surgery in the United States. We are deeply concerned about the announcement by the American Board of Podiatric Medicine (ABPM) that it plans to issue a new, unrecognized certification in podiatric surgery. The Council on Podiatric Medical Education (CPME) recognizes only ABFAS certification for podiatric surgery. By offering its new surgical certification, which is without recognition by any accrediting body, ABPM risks injecting confusion into the US healthcare market about podiatrists’ qualifications to perform surgery, harming public health, and sullying the reputation of currently surgical-certified podiatrists throughout the country. ABPM’s marketing communications about its new certification program are already causing health care providers to misunderstand the serious and substantial importance of a surgeon’s certification in podiatric surgery. The ABPM’s new certification is intended to be perceived as similar to certification by ABFAS. It is not. In addition to not being recognized by an accrediting body—which hospital privileging boards and patients must be made aware of and are likely not to understand without a detailed explanation—the ABPM surgical certification program lacks any review of newer podiatrist’s actual surgical experience, sometimes referred to as case review. Case Review is a hallmark of surgical certification by ABFAS. Our concern about health care providers’ and the public’s confusion is fomented by ABPM’s already confusing marketing communications, which reflect at least three misleading statements.

First, ABPM asserts that surgery is a “subspecialty” of podiatry. This is incorrect. Surgery is a specialty area of podiatric practice, and ABFAS is the only recognized board for the surgical specialty area of practice. Second, ABPM asserts that there is only one residency track for podiatrists, and therefore podiatrists’ experience should be considered equally. There are in fact two residency tracks for podiatrists, Podiatric Medicine and Surgery Residency (PMSR) and Podiatric Medicine and Surgery Residency/Reconstructive Rearfoot/Ankle (PMSR/RRA). While the PMSR/RRA residency program trains podiatrists in reconstructive/rearfoot and ankle surgery, PMSR does not. Third, ABPM compares its new certification to the American Board of Medical Specialties (ABMS) Certificate of Added Qualification (CAQ) programs, to which ABMS now refers as subspecialty certification. However, the ABMS subspecialty certification must be approved by the applicable accrediting body (the ABMS Committee on Certification (COCERT)), and ABMS’ non-surgical boards do not offer surgical subspecialties, as ABPM implies.

These concerns are not new. We submitted a complaint earlier this year to the CPME, asking it to review ABPM’s proposed new certification program rules for its obvious attempt to blur the lines of surgical certification. The CPME, however, determined at the time that this certification was not within CPME’s jurisdiction. We disagree, and we are submitting another complaint because we believe ABPM is failing to comply with at least two CPME requirements:

ABPM is not making only truthful and accurate statements in its communications, in violation of CPME 220 § 11.5. ABPM is offering certifications in an area not recognized by CPME’s standards. ABPM’s “Certifications of Additional Qualifications” are in fact “certifications.” The standards prohibit ABPM from offering “certifications” beyond those authorized by CPME because this may foster fragmentation and confusion in the health care market (CPME 220 §§ 1.4, 4.6, 12.2). ABPM’s new certification for surgery plainly represents the “fragmentation and duplication” prohibited by CPME 220 § 1.4, and represents a substantive and significant departure from the scope of ABPM’s approved certifications in violation of CPME 220 §§ 4.6 and 12.2.

ABFAS contends that CPME failed to comply with its own standards when it determined not to address ABFAS’s complaint filed earlier this year, and we strongly urge CPME to consider this complaint more seriously. CPME’s bylaws (see Ch. 19) require it to take action to address complaints that a standard or requirement is not being followed. CPME 230 requires that CPME seriously evaluate a specialty board’s change in scope. ABPM’s new certificate represents a “distinct and significant philosophical change in the definition and scope of the specialty area [and] the original intent of the specialty board,” and thus must “require that the specialty board seek recognition as a new applicant in accord with the expectations for specialty boards seeking initial recognition.” This new complaint, like ABFAS’s January 3, 2022 complaint, identifies critical issues that are squarely “relevant and related to substantive issues pertaining to CPME standards, requirements, criteria, or procedures” (CPME 925). We thus call upon CPME to undertake a thorough investigation of ABPM’s new certification program, requiring that ABPM immediately cease in the interim to launch the program until CPME is satisfied that the health care community and the public will not be harmed, and that ABPM is in compliance with CPME’s requirements. We also ask you, the podiatric community, to contact CPME, the APMA Board of Trustees, and the Specialty Board Recognition Committee to express your concerns.

 

[air bud]

Yeah ABFAS is not cool with this lol

 

[wakaflocka88]

Another scam. Again and again. What’s new, another money grab. They will peddle around the 10 schools advertising the great ABFAS and ABPM to unsuspecting young minds and brain wash them

 

[Feli]

Yeah ABFAS is not cool with this lol

Was paragraph 2, 5, 7, 16, bullet 9, bullet 14, or paragraph 19 and 22 your clue?
But yeah, they are pissed

...it's ABFAS' own fault, though. They put themselves on an island. That's good and bad. It creates exclusivity and high standards to have a board where a lot of the profession fails the tests and even many of those who pass get cases rejected, but it also makes it a much smaller money and voting pool.

The limb salvage 'leaders' will always have the trump cards over the 'F&A surgeons.' This CAQ is them flexing. Those guys doing the diabetes/wounds might have failed boards and not have nearly as much talent, but they pick the low hanging fruit the MDs don't want (pus, amps, Charcot, etc) and use that as a segway to the promised land of academic hospitals, leadership spots, school and residency control, pubs, speaker/consultant stuff, politic positions within and outside the specialty.

Next, you might see ACFAS tempted to accept members with the fake surgery CAQ just to get that money/member boost. Who knows. At least it's a step above ABLES, lmao.

The giant winner here is AAOS and AOFAS... they love the DPM infighting. That's for sure.

 

[PatchAdamsFan]

I definitely agree with ABFAS here, but can't help but compare their swift and strong response to the weak rebuttals in response to slander from AOFAS and certain ortho colleagues over the years. It is really sad that they do not put in the same amount of effort as this in-fighting.

 

[icebreaker32]

We all have our opinions, but what a credentialing nightmare our profession continues to be for hospitals.

 

[dtrack22]

We should have one board, with low dues and a very high pass rate. Boards are a scam disguised as some sort of valid patient safety tool. ABFAS did this to themselves.

 

[CutsWithFury]

Maybe Rogers, Harkless, Lavery and Armstrong should stop tearing down the profession with their limb salvage agenda. Creating more unnecessary schools and certifications seems really counter productive for a profession that is already significantly fragmented. It is already confusing as hell. I feel like an idiot trying to explain this to other medical professionals.

 

[Shiyuan]

Personally, I am a fan. Would be nice just to have one DPM Board with multiple CAQs offered, allowing one to obtain CAQs based on what you “specialize” in.

 

[CutsWithFury]

Personally, I am a fan. Would be nice just to have one DPM Board with multiple CAQs offered, allowing one to obtain CAQs based on what you “specialize” in.

Specialize in what? You know you are a podiatrist right?

The reason we keep having these conversations because podiatry education and residency training are NOT consistent.

We graduate a bunch of podiatrists each year with different abilities and skills because the overall caliber/quality is so significantly different between the podiatry schools and most assuredly the residency programs.

THIS IS THE PROBLEM

Now you want a board certification that grants different certifications for a sub specialty of medicine and surgery that is already highly specialized.

I feel like I’m on crazy pills.

 

[Shiyuan]

I thought there were other medical boards that had CAQs though?

Not to say that you would have to get a CAQ anyway... I agree like you said, we are already a specialty. Getting one or more of these would just make it known to the community what you focus on in your practice.

 

[newfeet]

Personally, I am a fan. Would be nice just to have one DPM Board with multiple CAQs offered, allowing one to obtain CAQs based on what you “specialize” in.

I was debate getting it but it’s a bit pointless. The ABPM alone has gotten me the privileges I needed to do my job. The CAQ feels like ABPM was looking for a fight.

I thought there were other medical boards that had CAQs though?

Not to say that you would have to get a CAQ anyway... I agree like you said, we are already a specialty. Getting one or more of these would just make it known to the community what you focus on in your practice.

The family medicine board has CAQ I’m not sure about the others.