ABFAS in training exam

[miamifeat]

Worth it to get Board wizzard and/or boardvitals to study during intern year? or hold off till 3rd year when it really counts?

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[Pronation]

Are people still going for ABFAS? I thought ABPM with added CAQ in surgery was the way to go now

 

[deleted1138023]

it won't hurt to study now but I wouldn't pay for stuff now.

 

[air bud]

Are people still going for ABFAS? I thought ABPM with added CAQ in surgery was the way to go now

Depends on the fee

 

[Feeter]

I think reading and keeping up with JFAS, FAI and reading review articles every month will help you pass any and all multiple choice exams. If you do this every month by 3rd year comes around you'll be set. Clinics in podiatry surgery is a good resource for review articles. You should have access to these journals via your residency program or the school you graduated from. Good luck on residency.

 

[Feli]

If you're anything like me, you probably have a ton of textbooks (Myerson, McGlam, Coughlin, Easley, etc etc), many journal article PDFs, etc already sitting around waiting to be read. I would just use those and the free questions and cases on ABFAS website for 1st and 2nd yr resident.

As said, you can use you CME money for Board Wiz if you want, but I'd get something better (conference, texts, etc) and save Board Wiz for the real thing (BQ/BC on the line).

But, "when it really counts" is different now. We (ppl replying) gotta keep in mind that residents get board qual via the in-training now... so it's not like it was for years and years where the 3 in-training exams didn't really mean anything and then you took BQ after the in-trainings.

 

[Dr. Little Foot]

But, "when it really counts" is different now. We (ppl replying) gotta keep in mind that residents get board qual via the in-training now... so it's not like it was for years and years where the 3 in-training exams didn't really mean anything and then you took BQ after the in-trainings.

Could you elaborate on this for a new resident? Are you saying that the "practice" exams influence whether we get board certified in the end or not? How does that work?

 

[SouthPod7]

Could you elaborate on this for a new resident? Are you saying that the "practice" exams influence whether we get board certified in the end or not? How does that work?

The ABFAS In-Training Exams you take in residency will each have a minimum passing score threshold where if you pass that in any of the 4 sections then pay a Qualification Fee for each section will then translate to passing that section for Board Qualification purposes.

This is in contrast to previously where the In-Training Exams were largely practice exams to prepare residents to sit for the actual Board Qualifying exam they would take during March of their 3rd year.

 

[deleted664048]

Worth it to get Board wizzard and/or boardvitals to study during intern year? or hold off till 3rd year when it really counts?

Board Wizard is good for CBPS to at least be familiar with a format.

For RRA didactic, I would go over Ortho bullets, and get membership (like $100), it will allow you to do questions there as well. Orthobullets is what ortho uses to study for their boards, so everything is up to date.

Foot didactic probably school notes is enough, and McGlam, pocket pod.

Personally do not think Board Wizards are good for didactic.

 

[CutsWithFury]

Board wizards was excellent for the CBPS portion of the exam. It will train you how to take the exam the way ABFAS wants you to. Not necessarily how you might do it in reality. I STRONGLY recommend you invest in the program and do every single case they offer. You will maximize your points and pass. I guarantee it. If you do board wizards and still fail then you’re hopeless.

 

[toez]

Anyone with experience with DPMQuestions? Seems a little newer so not a lot of info about it out there.

 

[podgal2003]

If you happen to not pass the year you get Board Wizards, the next year is available for free.

 

[Sweatshirt]

Good luck to everyone on this joke of a boards exam this week. Can't wait to see 70% of our profession fail a test with pictures and procedures from the 1980's, written by people who haven't done surgeries in decades

Looking forward to my ABPM certification next year instead!

 

[LadyPod]

What did everyone think of the exam this week?
I thought rearfoot didactic was very challenging. So many negative format questions on both the foot and rearfoot. I would say over 40%.

 

[bloxxeeey]

Which of the following is, is not falsely negatively true. [Insert blurred photo from 1923]

 

[deleted1138023]

Which of the following is, is not falsely negatively true. [Insert blurred photo from 1923]

Yet everyone supports abfas in the abfas vs abpm debate…

 

[Sweatshirt]

Yet everyone supports abfas in the abfas vs abpm debate…

Hopefully us younger vocal physicians can change this. ABFAS doesn't deserve our money or respect unless they can create a boards test that more accurately reflects podiatry in 2022. The ABFAS gatekeeper podiatrists also deserve zero respect. I know a few "big name" program directors who are like this and I have no respect for

 

[Pronation]

What did everyone think of the exam this week?
I thought rearfoot didactic was very challenging. So many negative format questions on both the foot and rearfoot. I would say over 40%.

I would say over 40% fail rate as per usual. Wouldn’t be surprised if they fudged numbers this year to make it much higher and get themselves out of the spotlight.

 

[Sweatshirt]

Overall I thought didactic was crap as expected. Like mentioned above, tons of stupid negative questions. Bad and old xrays. Upside down and sideways images. Questions with multiple right answers but they want the "best" answer

Cases seemed fine though

 

[wakaflocka88]

Overall I thought didactic was crap as expected. Like mentioned above, tons of stupid negative questions. Bad and old xrays. Upside down and sideways images. Questions with multiple right answers but they want the "best" answer

Cases seemed fine though

So ABFAS is aware of the continued use of bad terrible XR but yet continue to put it on exams. However their docs continue to visit schools and tout how great ABFAS is

 

[Boba Foot]

Overall I thought didactic was crap as expected. Like mentioned above, tons of stupid negative questions. Bad and old xrays. Upside down and sideways images. Questions with multiple right answers but they want the "best" answer

Cases seemed fine though

They're never going to change anything as long as they aren't held accountable for it. Like ABPM and Dr. Rogers or not, at least they're attempting to bring accountability into the conversation.

 

[PeaJay]

Let me play the contrarian.

Negative format questions should be clearer. There are many right ways to do something, but there is always a definite wrong answer.

Edit: still no excuse for poorly written questions and blurry unoriented MRI slices, ect

 

[de Ribas]

Overall I thought didactic was crap as expected. Like mentioned above, tons of stupid negative questions. Bad and old xrays. Upside down and sideways images. Questions with multiple right answers but they want the "best" answer

Cases seemed fine though

Hey, but if it makes ABFAS process more rigorous and ortho people will think highly of ABFAS certified people, let it be. How else are we gonna distinguish good pods from bad pods?

 

[CutsWithFury]

They're never going to change anything as long as they aren't held accountable for it. Like ABPM and Dr. Rogers or not, at least they're attempting to bring accountability into the conversation.

He hasn’t fixed anything. He’s only making our education and training even more confusing to the public than it already is.

I had a meeting today with an outreach clinic I’m going to go to. Nice little meet and greet.

First thing out of the mouth of the head internal medicine physician is “podiatrists come in all sorts of flavors”…..”what do you specifically do?”

We’ve accomplished nothing

 

[Feli]

What did everyone think of the exam this week?
I thought rearfoot didactic was very challenging. So many negative format questions on both the foot and rearfoot. I would say over 40%.

Yeah, you have to get used to their question writing style. Board wizards was great for CBPS prep, but they also do good on MC examples.

I had a gross anatomy teacher who loved K-type (A, B, C, A and B, A and C, B and C, All of the above). It's sometimes as much a matter of playing to the problem presentation as just knowing the info.

The tests are not easy, but you only have to pass them once. It's now easier than it has been in awhile with In Training counting for BQ.

 

[Dr. Little Foot]

He hasn’t fixed anything. He’s only making our education and training even more confusing to the public than it already is.

I had a meeting today with an outreach clinic I’m going to go to. Nice little meet and greet.

First thing out of the mouth of the head internal medicine physician is “podiatrists come in all sorts of flavors”…..”what do you specifically do?”

We’ve accomplished nothing

Ok well podiatrists come in all sorts of flavors. What do you specifically do?

 

[Pronation]

Ok well podiatrists come in all sorts of flavors. What do you specifically do?

He puts the lotion on the skin

 

[Dr. Little Foot]

Orthopedic docs can specialize in hand or back or hips or ankles. Some podiatrists focus on wound care, some limb salvage, some RRA, some like C&C. Imagine denouncing the management of our entire profession because you're offended by somebody inquiring about your subspecialty.

 

[Pronation]

Orthopedic docs can specialize in hand or back or hips or ankles. Some podiatrists focus on wound care, some limb salvage, some RRA, some like C&C. Imagine denouncing the management of our entire profession because you're offended by somebody inquiring about your subspecialty.

You ever heard of a specialist F&A ortho that ultra sub-specializes in doing just a certain part of the foot?

 

[PeaJay]

Orthopedic docs can specialize in hand or back or hips or ankles. Some podiatrists focus on wound care, some limb salvage, some RRA, some like C&C. Imagine denouncing the management of our entire profession because you're offended by somebody inquiring about your subspecialty.

Medicine is a business. We should take a look at one of the most efficient businesses in this country, McDonald’s. You can go to a McDonald’s in the hood of Detroit or sunny SoCal and expect similar products. Sure there may be some variation or changes in quality, but in the end you know what to expect. We don’t have consistency in product and thus flounder as a whole. Sub specialty in podiatry should be the the exception not the norm. People want to use sub specialties as a reason to be subpar at other aspects of podiatry without realizing the foot and ankle is a specialty in itself and should be mastered in 3 years.

 

[Sweatshirt]

ABFAS 2022 exam pass results sent to program directors:

Foot Didactic- 49%
RRA Didactic- 30%
Foot Cases- 70%
RRA Cases- 32%

ABFAS is a joke and scam of an organization. Extremely embarrassing on their end. It's clearly a huge money grab. Stop sending them your money and go support other board organizations such as ABPM. They need to be shut down and we need a complete overhaul of the board certification process

 

[DYK343]

ABFAS 2022 exam pass results sent to program directors:

Foot Didactic- 49%
RRA Didactic- 30%
Foot Cases- 70%
RRA Cases- 32%

ABFAS is a joke and scam of an organization. Extremely embarrassing on their end. It's clearly a huge money grab. Stop sending them your money and go support other board organizations such as ABPM. They need to be shut down and we need a complete overhaul of the board certification process

Pretty sure these numbers are about standard/average every year?
Maybe didactic percentage is usually a little higher pass?

 

[Sweatshirt]

Pretty sure these numbers are about standard/average every year?
Maybe didactic percentage is usually a little higher pass?

Doesn't matter if it's the "standard" year over year. A 30% pass rate should NOT be the standard

 

[LadyPod]

ABFAS 2022 exam pass results sent to program directors:

Foot Didactic- 49%
RRA Didactic- 30%
Foot Cases- 70%
RRA Cases- 32%

ABFAS is a joke and scam of an organization. Extremely embarrassing on their end. It's clearly a huge money grab. Stop sending them your money and go support other board organizations such as ABPM. They need to be shut down and we need a complete overhaul of the board certification process

Was this last spring results? Or this fall ITE?

 

[Sweatshirt]

Was this last spring results? Or this fall ITE?

When it was sent to me a few days ago all it said was 2022 on the paperwork. I assumed it was this fall since results were posted last week

 

[ConsciousCalc]

Doesn’t that include first year residents?

 

[icebreaker32]

The tests are hard but fair. This is not unlike many other professions. Top programs from nursing to law brag about pass rate or first attempt pass rate. It was likely schools being more selective on the front end than the school, but a good school can certainly help also.

A high test score is not the only thing that makes one a good surgeon or doctor. Unfortunately board scores and other similar professional tests often tend to correlate well with entrance exams like MCAT, LSAT etc.

Even though ABFAS boards are separate from graduation requirements a study would be interesting to see how MCAT scores correlate to ABFAS pass rate. I am pretty sure I know what the results would imply and the schools would not increase their admission standards anyways so what does it matter.

Should the boards lower their standards is a question up for debate also.

I think our whole process for board certification is not ideal to say the least, but I do not believe the testing is meant to be a money grab. If higher caliber students started being admitted, I believe the pass rate would go up significantly. The case submission process is not ideal either.

 

[deleted1149159]

Doesn’t that include first year residents?

I wanna say no. They do practice type tests that aren't graded towards these numbers you see. I don't think. I could be wrong.

 

[PointyNippers]

The tests are hard but fair. This is not unlike many other professions. Top programs from nursing to law brag about pass rate or first attempt pass rate. It was likely schools being more selective on the front end than the school, but a good school can certainly help also.

A high test score is not the only thing that makes one a good surgeon or doctor. Unfortunately board scores and other similar professional tests often tend to correlate well with entrance exams like MCAT, LSAT etc.

Even though ABFAS boards are separate from graduation requirements a study would be interesting to see how MCAT scores correlate to ABFAS pass rate. I am pretty sure I know what the results would imply and the schools would not increase their admission standards anyways so what does it matter.

Should the boards lower their standards is a question up for debate also.

I think our whole process for board certification is not ideal to say the least, but I do not believe the testing is meant to be a money grab. If higher caliber students started being admitted, I believe the pass rate would go up significantly. The case submission process is not ideal either.

Have you taken the test recently? It is very poorly written. I was lucky enough to pass but it definitely does not correlate to actual standards of practicing podiatry.

 

[PeaJay]

Have you taken the test recently? It is very poorly written. I was lucky enough to pass but it definitely does not correlate to actual standards of practicing podiatry.

I have taken the tests in the past two years. They have room for improvement but are fair tests (case review has a bit more ambiguity). See my comments above on negative format questions. The test had tons on negative format questions and this makes it more straightforward. There are many “correct” ways to approach a situation, but there is always a wrong way to approach a situation. If the AdamSmasher approach to the case based questions is executed there should be no problem passing. The cases are hampered by poor imaging, but in most cases it is hardly needed or the pathology is plainly obvious.

I agree with icebreaker, success is likely correlated with candidates matriculation quality and breadth of training. I know people who have never initiated a sepsis protocol and have no idea what to do with S. aureus bacteremia. If some doesn’t have the experience dealing with the full scope of the conditions we treat they can hardly be expected to ace boards.

 

[deleted1138023]

ABFAS 2022 exam pass results sent to program directors:

Foot Didactic- 49%
RRA Didactic- 30%
Foot Cases- 70%
RRA Cases- 32%

ABFAS is a joke and scam of an organization. Extremely embarrassing on their end. It's clearly a huge money grab. Stop sending them your money and go support other board organizations such as ABPM. They need to be shut down and we need a complete overhaul of the board certification process

shameful. ABPM should be supported.

 

[deleted1149159]

I 100% agree that the ABFAS examination needs to be harshly evaluated. No question.

BUT, to play devil's advocate, as @ExperiencedDPM is fond of saying, what if this is a wake up call to the quality of the residents we have, and those we are pushing through to be surgeons? Maybe it's both the residents and the exam.

Also, why do we need two boards? Back in my day, it made sense, as close to half the class couldn't get surgical residencies. Why not have one board? I wrote about this a decade ago. The American Board of Foot and Ankle Medicine and Surgery. With everyone getting three years, and no change to that in the foreseeable future, what is the purpose of two boards? Wouldn't that also smooth out the confusion about our profession that everyone talks about?

I hate to tell you, but in most major metropolitan areas these days, no ABFAS Cert, no privileges, and even worse, getting on insurances is getting tougher and tougher without those credentials. Yes, there are exceptions. Granted. And yes, if you are in a hospital setting as an employee, that might be different, but as usual, I'm talking about the majority.

 

[DPM TRUTH]

Hello collegues, hope everyone is having a safe holiday week!

Great post Dr. Ron.....I wondering if anyone from "the powers to be" could offer some dissent about his suggestion of 1 board - The American Board of Podiatric Medicine and Surgery.

I have been advocating this for years and years. Like Dr. Ron said, 2 boards were needed 25 years ago when there were only a handful of surgical residencies. Now that everyone is doing PM&S-36 programs ALL residents are doing a combination of Medicine and surgery.

Yes I understand "there are some bad residents" but when 51% are FAILING that shows a SYSTEMIC FAILURE of the process and system itself.

So to "the powers to be" - until your group gets the systemic issues fixed (pm&s-36's producing psr-12 numbers, not enough students) you can't tell 51% of the profession (as per stats posted above) they can only cut nails. As Dr. Ron Said, in major metropolitan areas abfas foot is needed to really do ANYTHING. Again, telling 50% they couldn't operate was ok when I graduated because we only had 15k in tuition. You could make a living doing only medicine...HMOs destroyed this.
It is hard to make ends meet now without adding some procedures to augemt your office work these days in podiatry.

We have deliberated at nauseum about how the process in place NOW is really confusing/misleading to the public (abfas certified in FOOT AND ANKLE SURGERY WITHOUT EVER DOING A SURGICAL RESIDENCY). More important, since abps went to abfas, it confuses our medical collegues. The Amercan Board of Podiatric Medicine and Surgery would fix this.

Ladies and Gentlemen ask yourself the real question.....do they (apma/cpme) genuinely want this fixed? How many years of 51% fail rates does it take to change this broken system...10, 20, 30? Or do we continue to produce 49% pass rates and continue to blame it on someone else? Even worse, put the blame on the students

 

[CutsWithFury]

ABFAS 2022 exam pass results sent to program directors:

Foot Didactic- 49%
RRA Didactic- 30%
Foot Cases- 70%
RRA Cases- 32%

ABFAS is a joke and scam of an organization. Extremely embarrassing on their end. It's clearly a huge money grab. Stop sending them your money and go support other board organizations such as ABPM. They need to be shut down and we need a complete overhaul of the board certification process

Holy crap that is awful. I passed everything first time around. Tests and cases.

Honestly I think podiatry education and residency training is not good enough.

Or we are accepting even lower quality students than I thought was possible….

 

[Feli]

Holy crap that is awful. I passed everything first time around. Tests and cases.

Honestly I think podiatry education and residency training is not good enough.

Or we are accepting even lower quality students than I thought was possible….

Meh. Some of both, more the second part... the same texts and journals are on the shelves at every pod school and residency library.

If you look at USMLE, it's virtually 100% pass for US MD grads and much lower for DOs and much much lower for FMGs (basically lower with students/schools with lower MCATs going in).
Same goes with their gen surg, ortho, IM specialty, etc boards... high pass rates overall for those who can match into those residencies and fellowships, but usually much lower for the residencies/fellowship hospitals with a lot of lower avg resident USMLE and more FMGs.

But DPMTOOTH is right... we should probably just have a one question, true/false board exam: "Big toe is called hallux... T/F?" That would be great for everyone. Lower the bar until it's just a line on the ground.

 

[DPM TRUTH]

Feli, how are you!

Only someone smart like yourself would put forth such a deep answer trying to help move the profession forward!

But Fel, only if they charge 4k to "review" true/false questions if you get it wrong! Your right Feli, keep lowering the bar on robbing residents till you bankrupt them all! Im sure theres some more fees you can squeeze out of them sir

 

[LadyPod]

I luckily passed all four exams this ITE. However, I have no idea how, as it felt like a complete crap shoot. I did study A LOT and come from a higher power program (maybe that helped?).

I agree, if we now have a 3 year residency across the board, why do we need the 2 board exams ?

IMO, granted in my last year of residency, I think ABFAS will become the dominant board.

 

[diabeticfootdr]

I hate to tell you, but in most major metropolitan areas these days, no ABFAS Cert, no privileges, and even worse, getting on insurances is getting tougher and tougher without those credentials. Yes, there are exceptions. Granted. And yes, if you are in a hospital setting as an employee, that might be different, but as usual, I'm talking about the majority.

Also wrong.

Less than 5% of hospitals specify only one CPME-recognized board. And in most of those cases, it’s a podiatry vs. podiatry anticompetitive issue.

When any ABPM Diplomate submits a request for privileging assistance via www.podiatryprivileges.com we commonly find the hospital is violating a law, rule, or standard in privileging and it’s quickly resolved. Out of all that have asked for assistance, only 1 we weren’t able to help and that was due to timing-out of the appeal process.

 

[deleted1149159]

Also wrong.

Less than 5% of hospitals specify only one CPME-recognized board. And in most of those cases, it’s a podiatry vs. podiatry anticompetitive issue.

When any ABPM Diplomate submits a request for privileging assistance via www.podiatryprivileges.com we commonly find the hospital is violating a law, rule, or standard in privileging and it’s quickly resolved. Out of all that have asked for assistance, only 1 we weren’t able to help and that was due to timing-out of the appeal process.

Source? I'd like to see where you got this number, please.

And how many people did you help this way? Ten or two hundred?

Possibly in your neck of the woods, but not everywhere. And in the major metro areas I know of, ABFAS is king.

Btw, do you have a comment on why we need two boards at this point in time? And why we shouldn't merge the two boards into The American Board of Foot and Ankle Medicine and Surgery? Would you support such an initiative?

 

[CutsWithFury]

Meh. Some of both, more the second part... the same texts and journals are on the shelves at every pod school and residency library.

If you look at USMLE, it's virtually 100% pass for US MD grads and much lower for DOs and much much lower for FMGs (basically lower with students/schools with lower MCATs going in).
Same goes with their gen surg, ortho, IM specialty, etc boards... high pass rates overall for those who can match into those residencies and fellowships, but usually much lower for the residencies/fellowship hospitals with a lot of lower avg resident USMLE and more FMGs.

But DPMTOOTH is right... we should probably just have a one question, true/false board exam: "Big toe is called hallux... T/F?" That would be great for everyone. Lower the bar until it's just a line on the ground.

100% pass rate for MD/DO is fine. They also have credentials to get into medical school that are significantly higher than podiatry schools. Better quality of student and higher quality of person.