Aborting my acceptance

[r0entgen]

Thank God you didn't apply to law school. You are either good at antagonizing people or you are just plain stupid. I think about 10% of your posts have something valid in them.

LOL

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[SuperTrooper]

....running the background check and doing what they should be doing correctly.

So are you saying that they should do background checks on everybody they are about to offer admissions to? Regardless if they checked "yes" or "no." Cause if that's what you're saying i'd suggest you're mildly ******ed. Admissions offices aren't these super-human machines that ensure accuracy in everything and confirm everything the applicant says. Admissions offices are bureaucracies that screw up all the time. Look at most of the SDN posts in the pre-dental forums; admissions offices lose LORs, DAT scores, send out information when they shouldn't. This is REAL LIFE buddy, and the applicant needs to be just as accountable as the office. You can't go around blaming other people for your problems.

 

[r0entgen]

So are you saying that they should do background checks on everybody they are about to offer admissions to? Regardless if they checked "yes" or "no." Cause if that's what you're saying i'd suggest you're mildly ******ed. Admissions offices aren't these super-human machines that ensure accuracy in everything and confirm everything the applicant says. Admissions offices are bureaucracies that screw up all the time. Look at most of the SDN posts in the pre-dental forums; admissions offices lose LORs, DAT scores, send out information when they shouldn't. This is REAL LIFE buddy, and the applicant needs to be just as accountable as the office. You can't go around blaming other people for your problems.

it is the SCHOOL's obligation to insure accuracy of information, yes. if they choose NOT to do background checks on everyone (because they are trusting the applicants), that is their own problem. but by taking this shortcut, they are responsible for their "screw ups"

 

[RoxyG1624]

The issue is that the applicant never knowingly lied about his years away from school. There was never a box to check off on this condition of acceptance. Also, don't you think running a background check after accepting a student is a little wrong on the university's part if this were to infact happen? Assuming this happened, I'd be a little pissed that they messed up and denied a good student an acceptance, before running the background check and doing what they should be doing correctly. Their whole job is finding the perfect applicant for the program.

Someone can only run a criminal background check on you if you have signed something stating that you understand that one may be run and that you agree to one being run.

Just thought you might want to know.

Therefore, the technically can't deny you after the fact unless you signed something.

 

[dexadental]

So are you saying that they should do background checks on everybody they are about to offer admissions to? Regardless if they checked "yes" or "no." Cause if that's what you're saying i'd suggest you're mildly ******ed. Admissions offices aren't these super-human machines that ensure accuracy in everything and confirm everything the applicant says. Admissions offices are bureaucracies that screw up all the time. Look at most of the SDN posts in the pre-dental forums; admissions offices lose LORs, DAT scores, send out information when they shouldn't. This is REAL LIFE buddy, and the applicant needs to be just as accountable as the office. You can't go around blaming other people for your problems.

Mildly ******ed...okay. They should use those supplemental fees wisely...running a background check takes 10 dollars and very little time. Yes this is real life and people screw up, so they should account for their actions. Stop making excuses for people's mistakes. I'm not blaming anyone, but if anyone has to be blamed, it can't be the applicant in this matter based on what he has told us.

 

[SuperTrooper]

Thank God you didn't apply to law school. You are either good at antagonizing people or you are just plain stupid. I think about 10% of your posts have something valid in them.

i'm not trying to antagonize anybody. maybe a little stupid though. My time is done in this thread though. bluekty, good luck, i bet it'll work out for you.

 

[dexadental]

Someone can only run a criminal background check on you if you have signed something stating that you understand that one may be run and that you agree to one being run.

Just thought you might want to know.

Therefore, the technically can't deny you after the fact unless you signed something.

So you are saying that SuperTrooper's crazy analogy doesn't relate to his defense at all? I'm sure some other crazy arguement will be brought up defending LL.

 

[L8DYV]

i'm not trying to antagonize anybody. maybe a little stupid though. My time is done in this thread though. bluekty, good luck, i bet it'll work out for you.

!

 

[dexadental]

Someone can only run a criminal background check on you if you have signed something stating that you understand that one may be run and that you agree to one being run.

Just thought you might want to know.

Therefore, the technically can't deny you after the fact unless you signed something.

I don't believe this to be totally true either. A background check contains much information available from public records. These can be obtained by anyone for a small fee.

 

[bluekty]

First of all, thank you for all the advice.

Don't argue though. I just needed opinions.
Different opinions make me feel up and down, however, after all, I am getting adviced on what I should do.

 

[RoxyG1624]

I don't believe this to be totally true either. A background check contains much information available from public records. These can be obtained by anyone for a small fee.

You are correct. I simply was referring to supertroopers question about denying someone after acceptance based on a "criminal" background check that showed a misdemeanor. A Background check can be done and is public records, yes. A "criminal" background check can be run as well. But to base any type of decision on the outcomes, be it employment or otherwise, you have to have signed something stating that this can be run.

I just wanted to make sure everyone was in understanding of this.

 

[RoxyG1624]

So you are saying that SuperTrooper's crazy analogy doesn't relate to his defense at all? I'm sure some other crazy arguement will be brought up defending LL.

I wasn't saying anything about his analogy. Well actually I was saying it isn't true and that it was flawed.

I don't feel for LL either way.

Although I hope the OP can work things out. Good luck Blue!

 

[SuperTrooper]

I wasn't saying anything about his analogy. Well actually I was saying it isn't true and that it was flawed.

I don't feel for LL either way.

Although I hope the OP can work things out. Good luck Blue!

OH my lord!!

Listen, I understand the analogy was confusing. The point I was trying to make is this: "Just because the school has sent you a letter (an offer of admissions), it doesn't mean that they've approved/checked off everything on your application. They can take away your offer at any time. The offer of admission doesn't wash away any mistakes (intentional/unintentional) you may have made."

That's all I was trying to say. God bless.

 

[SuperTrooper]

first off, submitting a deposit does not mean the op implicitly agreed on the conditions. submitting a deposit means he is "[securing his] place in the class of 2010," as his acceptance letter states.

Securing a place means that you implicitly agree to the conditions, yes.

p.s. you have kaka for brains.

 

[r0entgen]

OH my lord!!

Listen, I understand the analogy was confusing. The point I was trying to make is this: "Just because the school has sent you a letter (an offer of admissions), it doesn't mean that they've approved/checked off everything on your application. They can take away your offer at any time. The offer of admission doesn't wash away any mistakes (intentional/unintentional) you may have made."

That's all I was trying to say. God bless.

i thought you were done with this thread?

anyway, yes it does. when a school sends you an ACCEPTANCE letter, that means up to this point, they are satisfied with your submitted application. all the contingencies refer to the applicant's FUTURE actions (i.e. the rest of the semester's course grades) that were NOT listed on the application.

 

[L8DYV]

i thought you were done with this thread?

anyway, yes it does. when a school sends you an ACCEPTANCE letter, that means up to this point, they are satisfied with your submitted application. all the contingencies refer to the applicant's FUTURE actions (i.e. the rest of the semester's course grades) that were NOT listed on the application.

it would definitely seem that way...keep us posted blukty.

 

[SuperTrooper]

i thought you were done with this thread?

anyway, yes it does. when a school sends you an ACCEPTANCE letter, that means up to this point, they are satisfied with your submitted application. all the contingencies refer to the applicant's FUTURE actions (i.e. the rest of the semester's course grades) that were NOT listed on the application.

dude, this was the whole point of my analogy. if they later find out that you lied about your criminal record, they WILL cancel your acceptance. Isn't this common sense? Doesn't that seem totally reasonable to you? That misdemeanor (or whatever) happened in the PAST and they later discovered it; the fact that they sent you a letter of admissions means absolute jack squat. It doesn't matter if the foul-up was unintentional (like bluekty) or intentional (like somebody lying about their criminal record).

 

[tinman831]

After we have recieved this information you will be sent a pre-dental completion statement. This will be issued to you to show what class work needs to be completed prior to entrance next September.

Was this the time when they told you that your prereqs were too old?

 

[dexadental]

lol This thread has gotten out of hand, just keep up posted with what happens...

 

[bluekty]

Was this the time when they told you that your prereqs were too old?

No they did not mention that.
When they told me that my prerequisites are too old was just past Friday.

 

[SirShagaLot]

THis thread is so freaking long i forgot what school we are talking about....was it Loma Linda? Anyways, I would venture to guess that someone from the implicated school has read every post on this thread. Just something to think about....

 

[L8DYV]

THis thread is so freaking long i forgot what school we are talking about....was it Loma Linda? Anyways, I would venture to guess that someone from the implicated school has read every post on this thread. Just something to think about....

LOL its not like most of us are going there....

 

[SirShagaLot]

LOL its not like most of us are going there....

yeah i know im just talking about the person that started the thread, it would be easy for the school to figure out who he/she is, this prob. doesnt happen to many, if any......besides of course this person who it has actually happened to...........

 

[L8DYV]

yeah i know im just talking about the person that started the thread, it would be easy for the school to figure out who he/she is, this prob. doesnt happen to many, if any......besides of course this person who it has actually happened to...........

oh yeah, that's right...they might be reading all this...yikes!!!

 

[bluekty]

yeah i know im just talking about the person that started the thread, it would be easy for the school to figure out who he/she is, this prob. doesnt happen to many, if any......besides of course this person who it has actually happened to...........

if any... besides of course this person who it has actually happened to..? what? what do you think will happen?

 

[L8DYV]

if any... besides of course this person who it has actually happened to..? what? what do you think will happen?

They can't do anything!! I mean c'mon, if anything, they should have a big guilt trip for putting you through hell and it shows to many of us students here that the school does not have it together!!

 

[aggie-master]

The next letter I recieved was this:

Dear XXXXX
By now you should have received the "good news" that you have been accepted to LLU school of dentistry. To secure your place in the Class of 2010, a deposit of $1000 is required. This deposit becomes a part of your first quarter's tuition. The following items should be returned to our office no later than Feb 27th;
1. A check in the amount of $1000.00 made payable to LLU school of dentistry
2. Admission deposit form
3. Data Center Supplement
4. Biographical Data information
In addition to the above, you will need to request transcripts to be sent school to school, from all colleges and/or universities you have attended. After we have recieved this information you will be sent a pre-dental completion statement. This will be issued to you to show what class work needs to be completed prior to entrance next September.
Should you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to contact our office at ### and we will be happy to talk with you.
Again congratulation!


And the following letter was the receipt of deposit.

What was the date of this letter?

At this point they told you that they were still going to review your prereqs and let you know what needed to be taken. At that point I probably would have had some questions and concerns and called them if I were you. I've got 7 hours of my prereqs that are more than 5 years old and I've heard about the 5 year rule at some schools a few times on this board.

 

[aggie-master]

btw, is it only 24 hours that you need to complete by September?

I think it can be done in the summer if you have the money for it.

Look into colleges that give online science classes. You can try and take 8 online and 16 in the classroom. All you need to make is a C. It shouldn't be hard since you know this material already.

You can also tell the professor your situation and they might go easy on you to help you out.

 

[SirShagaLot]

if any... besides of course this person who it has actually happened to..? what? what do you think will happen?

who knows........its just never good to have a biased person hanging around looking at your application....on the bright side....since u got the shaft from this school u can now apply to other schools that are anti-shaft giving.

 

[sumozmom]

i called around today ...and it's true some schools to have a time limit on the pre-recs...some that don't are Columbia, Florida state,Meharry,UNLV,NYU.
That Do are...n.Carolina,howard,nova...i'm still working on the list !

 

[Badtz-Mawu]

Case Western doesn't have a 5 year time limit. Good thing they don't, since I took some of my prereqs 10 years ago!

 

[whiskeysour]

i called around today ...and it's true some schools to have a time limit on the pre-recs...some that don't are Columbia, Florida state,Meharry,UNLV,NYU.
That Do are...n.Carolina,howard,nova...i'm still working on the list !

florida state doesn't even have a dental school

 

[TucsonDDS]

I was going to apply to LLU until I found out about the 5 year limit on courses. I specifically called and questioned every school that I was interested in and it was only a problem with 4 or 5 schools having some of my prereqs being up to 8 years old. I was initially pretty excited about LLU because the Cheif of Staff at the hospital I worked at was one of the people to write me a letter and was freinds with the Dean of Admissions. After he found out about the 5 year rule he even called his friend but was told that they could not bend the rules.

Good luck

 

[GuidoPedo]

FWIW...I post on another forum and there are a few lawyers on there. I posted the OP's first post and here are their responses. Looks like mixed opinions.

School wins if they choose to keep him out. He is SOL. To the extent there is a "contract" - which is questionable - there are prerequisites to its terms. The student didnt meet those, and, at least legally, "fraudulently induced"the contract by representing the terms had been met, on an application or otherwise.

...would tend to agree with [The Above], although arguments could be made on both sides. Certainly, mistake (mutual or unilateral) would be a defense to the breach of contract claim...and contrary to Doc's opinion, I would aver that there was in fact never any meeting of the minds. I would guess that the school would prevail in this situation 80-90% of the time...although I suspect that the student will receive a refund for any monies paid to the school...and if he is lucky, he might receive some minimal (if any) damages for having to sit out an entire year due to the acceptance letter and foregoing the opportunity to attend the other schools, assuming that he was in fact admitted to said other schools.

How did the student commit fraud ? reading the post it would seem that the student provided the necc. information and the school did not realize IT made a mistake until subsequent to the acceptance...maybe I'm reading the post incorrectly..?

That being said ..there are other remedies besides alleging breach of contract.....there is certainly equitable relief ( Section 90 Promissory Estoppel ..remember lawschool..lol..brutal) ..etc..and def. the person should get their money back regarding the deposit..unless he/she purposely withheld the info ..that would be a different story...


there is clearly a "condition precedent" regarding the acceptance of each student regarding the pre-requisites..which in turn would make a contract claim a tough avenue to take...

the other question that should be asked to the school is simply was the intent of the language regarding the time limits on pre-requisites for individuals who simply were not pursuing additional education ? or also to apply for those individuals seeking further education such as this case...its a stretch and probably wont matter but it seems harsh to apply the same strict interpretation to individuals still pursuing additional degrees..

 

[bluekty]

I am back guys...
I have not gotten any results yet.
And I am going again next week. And that will be the day of decision.
I am supposed to meet with more decision makers on the day.
And I need to defend myself again.

Oh and I have not mentioned any thing about legal action yet.

 

[food4thots]

I am back guys...
I have not gotten any results yet.
And I am going again next week. And that will be the day of decision.
I am supposed to meet with more decision makers on the day.
And I need to defend myself again.

Oh and I have not mentioned any thing about legal action yet.

good luck on that.. keep us posted..

 

[mlle]

I am back guys...
I have not gotten any results yet.
And I am going again next week. And that will be the day of decision.
I am supposed to meet with more decision makers on the day.
And I need to defend myself again.

Oh and I have not mentioned any thing about legal action yet.

well that sounds promising. they are giving you their time and attention... it's a good sign. I hope everything works out to be less painful for you from here on in.

 

[Comet208]

if any... besides of course this person who it has actually happened to..? what? what do you think will happen?

hey blue,

I think we met 2 years ago right before your IU interview (we were staying in the same hotel). I am sorry that you are put in this situation. most schools do have a policy that pre-reqs must be retaken if you have been out of school for more than 5 years. but there are ways around it. Have you really been out of school that long? maybe you took a course somewher? that one course may save you. Call the school and VERY POLITELY speak to someone. offer to take something over the summer... try meeting them half way if you can. discuss your DAT scores (if you have done well enough). best of luck to you.

 

[food4thots]

most schools do have a policy that pre-reqs must be retaken if you have been out of school for more than 5 years.

really? i'd like to know which schools do? because most my pre-reqs are pretty ancient.. none of the schools i applied to ever mentioned anything like this..

 

[bluekty]

hey blue,

I think we met 2 years ago right before your IU interview (we were staying in the same hotel). I am sorry that you are put in this situation. most schools do have a policy that pre-reqs must be retaken if you have been out of school for more than 5 years. but there are ways around it. Have you really been out of school that long? maybe you took a course somewher? that one course may save you. Call the school and VERY POLITELY speak to someone. offer to take something over the summer... try meeting them half way if you can. discuss your DAT scores (if you have done well enough). best of luck to you.

Hi Comet.
How are you doing? first of all congrats for your acceptance.

You said if I have been out of school for more than 5 years, then I need to retake the courses. But I have NOT been out of school. I have been in school whole time and I am in Master's now. So that doesn't apply to me.
The rule that school gave me was I need to take the prerequisite courses within 5 yrs prior to school starts.

 

[sumozmom]

really? i'd like to know which schools do? because most my pre-reqs are pretty ancient.. none of the schools i applied to ever mentioned anything like this..

agreed.....most do not ...only some do.....Please do let us know which have time frames....so far a only found a few.

 

[sumozmom]

really? i'd like to know which schools do? because most my pre-reqs are pretty ancient.. none of the schools i applied to ever mentioned anything like this..

how ancient?

 

[marley76]

Hi
I am in panic attack right now.
I was accepted to a school in Jan.
Recently they sent me a letter saying that I took my prerequisites more than 5 years ago so they are aborting my acceptance.
I have not seen any indication on this any where.
And I am just shocked and don't know what to do.

Do you guys know what I should do now?
Or do any of you guys know that there is any place that I can finish all these prerequisites in June to Aug?
Please help me.

I took all of my pre-req classes at cleveland chiropractic college... they offer a program that allows you to take all of your science classes within 8 months! there are other chiropractic colleges as well as universities that offer these programs (specifically D.O. schools (Osteopathic schools)). Don't panic, worst case scenario you wait another year to begin dental school. I'm waiting another year because one of my professors forgot to send my recommendation letter... Thanks dude! Try lake erie college of osteopathic medicine! GOOD LUCK!

 

[bluekty]

Guys... Another thing came up.
I just found out that the website has been changed.
They actaully changed the admission section in the website.
And the website actually has the 5 yrs rule now.
I do have the printed out copy of original website (do not contain the 5 yr rule) which is printed out a few days ago.

I have a meeting with them again next week.
How should I interpret this?
Will the website change influence me in a bad way or a good way?

 

[mellowt]

Guys... Another thing came up.
I just found out that the website has been changed.
They actaully changed the admission section in the website.
And the website actually has the 5 yrs rule now.
I do have the printed out copy of original website (do not contain the 5 yr rule) which is printed out a few days ago.

I have a meeting with them again next week.
How should I interpret this?
Will the website change influence me in a bad way or a good way?

Wow! That seems like they're trying to save their rear ends from legal action or what not. Seems a little mean spirited and unethical to me too if they really did that. Goodluck with the meeting man.

 

[r0entgen]

Guys... Another thing came up.
I just found out that the website has been changed.
They actaully changed the admission section in the website.
And the website actually has the 5 yrs rule now.
I do have the printed out copy of original website (do not contain the 5 yr rule) which is printed out a few days ago.

I have a meeting with them again next week.
How should I interpret this?
Will the website change influence me in a bad way or a good way?

i'd definitely print out another copy of the UPDATED website with the changes. make sure your browser prints out the date with it.

that way, you can just have a before and after. indicate that this is proof that they KNEW that the requirements were unclear, and that is the reason why all of a sudden, they decided to update the site.

i think this is good for you, cuz their taking action is solid evidence that they knew they screwed up. i'd make sure i'd have the before & after websites printed out, dated by your browser. good luck

 

[food4thots]

how ancient?

i took most of them between 1997-2001.

 

[tinman831]

Guys... Another thing came up.
I just found out that the website has been changed.
They actaully changed the admission section in the website.
And the website actually has the 5 yrs rule now.
I do have the printed out copy of original website (do not contain the 5 yr rule) which is printed out a few days ago.

I have a meeting with them again next week.
How should I interpret this?
Will the website change influence me in a bad way or a good way?

Heh... the LLU website even says when it was last revised ("Last Revised: Wed, May 24, 2006")

If they were going to try to sneak the information into their website and pull a fast one on you, they did a poor job of it (putting the requirement in bold red letters). This only shows that they made a pretty big boo boo on their part and they know it too. If they didn't make such a serious mistake, they wouldn't have had to update their website so soon. It's only more ammo for your case against them.

Good luck Blue. Keep us updated.

 

[L8DYV]

Heh... the LLU website even says when it was last revised ("Last Revised: Wed, May 24, 2006")

If they were going to try to sneak the information into their website and pull a fast one on you, they did a poor job of it (putting the requirement in bold red letters). This only shows that they made a pretty big boo boo on their part and they know it too. If they didn't make such a serious mistake, they wouldn't have had to update their website so soon. It's only more ammo for your case against them.

Good luck Blue. Keep us updated.

lol. they sure did! :

http://www.llu.edu/llu/dentistry/admissions/admitinfo.html#anchor1669562

 

[coolhanluc]

Wow! That seems like they're trying to save their rear ends from legal action or what not. Seems a little mean spirited and unethical to me too if they really did that. Goodluck with the meeting man.

I agree with Mellowt, they are trying to cover their butts. By them updating their page and in red (Like the color of their faces) is admission on their part that their policy was unclear. I interpet this as a big ++++++ in your favor Bluekty. You can ask, "Well if the policy wasn't unclear why did you make such an obviously bold change to the web page?" What ever you do don't lose those print outs. Good luck