Absolutely Silly Question Regarding Prerequisites - Please Assure Me!

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Sean Lee

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It seems that all DO schools require 1 year (8 semester hours) of each of the following: biology, general chemistry, organic chemistry, and physics, and that they have to include lecture and lab. Some schools goes further to require 6 semester hours of lecture + 2 semester hours of lab, since many/most traditional science courses come in 3 semester hour lecture + 1 semester hour lab (with a separate grade for each).

Now, most of my pre-req courses are COMBINED lecture + lab, 4 semester hour courses. The lab credit (0 on transcript) and grade is included in the lecture credit and grade, and we only get one grade for the whole course. I am sure you all know what I am talking about.

Is there ANY possibility that DO schools are going to have a problem with 4 semester hour pre-req courses with combined lecture and lab? Will they satisfy the requirement of 3 lecture hours and 1 lab hour?

I apologize if I am getting overly paranoid, but it seems every DO school has some sort of peculiar format technicalities that I am freaking out!
 
I have classes that are combined 4 hour courses including lab and lecture (3hr lec and 1 hr lab). I spoke with AACOMAS and they told me that you will have to separate the classes when filling out your AACOMAS app, meaning i would have to split the 4 hour class into a 3 hour lecture and 1 hour lab. I hope this helps.

ex:
Gen Chem 1 = 4 hrs


AACOMAS:
Gen Chem lec = 3 hr
Gen Chem lab = 1 hr
 
Sean Lee said:
It seems that all DO schools require 1 year (8 semester hours) of each of the following: biology, general chemistry, organic chemistry, and physics, and that they have to include lecture and lab. Some schools goes further to require 6 semester hours of lecture + 2 semester hours of lab, since many/most traditional science courses come in 3 semester hour lecture + 1 semester hour lab (with a separate grade for each).

Now, most of my pre-req courses are COMBINED lecture + lab, 4 semester hour courses. The lab credit (0 on transcript) and grade is included in the lecture credit and grade, and we only get one grade for the whole course. I am sure you all know what I am talking about.

Is there ANY possibility that DO schools are going to have a problem with 4 semester hour pre-req courses with combined lecture and lab? Will they satisfy the requirement of 3 lecture hours and 1 lab hour?

I apologize if I am getting overly paranoid, but it seems every DO school has some sort of peculiar format technicalities that I am freaking out!
Click to expand...
you should be fine.
 
Sean Lee said:
It seems that all DO schools require 1 year (8 semester hours) of each of the following: biology, general chemistry, organic chemistry, and physics, and that they have to include lecture and lab. Some schools goes further to require 6 semester hours of lecture + 2 semester hours of lab, since many/most traditional science courses come in 3 semester hour lecture + 1 semester hour lab (with a separate grade for each).

Now, most of my pre-req courses are COMBINED lecture + lab, 4 semester hour courses. The lab credit (0 on transcript) and grade is included in the lecture credit and grade, and we only get one grade for the whole course. I am sure you all know what I am talking about.

Is there ANY possibility that DO schools are going to have a problem with 4 semester hour pre-req courses with combined lecture and lab? Will they satisfy the requirement of 3 lecture hours and 1 lab hour?

I apologize if I am getting overly paranoid, but it seems every DO school has some sort of peculiar format technicalities that I am freaking out!
Click to expand...

@GreyF0X is right. I just talked to AACOMAS about this yesterday, because I'm in the same boat. They will break up your 4-hr courses into 3-hr lecture and 1-hr lab.
 
GreyF0X said:
I have classes that are combined 4 hour courses including lab and lecture (3hr lec and 1 hr lab). I spoke with AACOMAS and they told me that you will have to separate the classes when filling out your AACOMAS app, meaning i would have to split the 4 hour class into a 3 hour lecture and 1 hour lab. I hope this helps.

ex:
Gen Chem 1 = 4 hrs


AACOMAS:
Gen Chem lec = 3 hr
Gen Chem lab = 1 hr
Click to expand...

I got the exact opposite information!

I was told to enter things EXACTLY as they appear on my transcript. And my transcript simply says Gen Chem Lecture 4 units and Gen Chem Lab 0 units.
 
FutureDrB said:
@GreyF0X is right. I just talked to AACOMAS about this yesterday, because I'm in the same boat. They will break up your 4-hr courses into 3-hr lecture and 1-hr lab.
Click to expand...

You mean they will break a 4.0 unit lecture and 0.0 unit lab into a 3.0 unit lecture and 1.0 unit lab and assign the same grade to both sections?
 
Sean Lee said:
I got the exact opposite information!

I was told to enter things EXACTLY as they appear on my transcript. And my transcript simply says Gen Chem Lecture 4 units and Gen Chem Lab 0 units.
Click to expand...

Yes, enter it like it is on your transcript, but they will break it up when they officially calculate it. That's the info I got from them.
 
Sean Lee said:
You mean they will break a 4.0 unit lecture and 0.0 unit lab into a 3.0 unit lecture and 1.0 unit lab and assign the same grade to both sections?
Click to expand...

Yes, I asked them about a B in a 4-hr Chemistry course (lec. and lab combined), she told me that when they calculate it, it will be two grades, 3-hr lec. B and 1-hr lab B
 
Regardless,
FutureDrB said:
Yes, I asked them about a B in a 4-hr Chemistry course (lec. and lab combined), she told me that when they calculate it, it will be two grades, 3-hr lec. B and 1-hr lab B
Click to expand...

But when YOU enter it, you have to enter it exactly as it appear, right?

And what about courses that include a lab component but is not reflected in the course title? For example, I have a class that simply says Biology 201: Introduction to Population Biology and Physiology. It is a 4 unit class with one grade that covers both lecture and lab.
 
Correct. That's why you send them your transcripts, so they can sort it out. I know, it's messy.
 
Got it.

But what about courses that have a lab component but you can't tell from the title of the course on your transcript? How do they figure it out then?
 
Sean Lee said:
Got it.

But what about courses that have a lab component but you can't tell from the title of the course on your transcript? How do they figure it out then?
Click to expand...

That I honestly don't know, all of the classes I have taken that had labs specifically stated it.
 
One of my class is Biology 101: Tropic Diseases (4 units, no lab), while another is Biology 202: Blah Blah Blah (4 units, lecture and lab combined). How do I indicate whether one have lab and the other don't?

EDIT: I just asked AACOMAS about this problem.
 
This sucks so much.

I mean, you would think that after all the hard work you've done, you are going to get shut out of medical school simply because a biology prerequisite with a lab component doesn't say so anywhere on the transcript.
 
My school is very weird. I have:

Chem 101L: General Chemistry (4 units, grade = A)
Chem 101L8: General Chem Lab (0 unit, no grade)

The lab grade and credit is included in the lecture grade and credit, but the lab section nonetheless appears on a separate entry! AACOMAS told me to enter things exactly as they appear and simply put "P" next to lab, even though P doesn't appear on my transcript; bottom line is I can't just leave the grade blank next to the lab entry. I don't want med schools to get the impression that I pass/failed my prereq courses!

@FutureDrB
Are you saying that when reviewing my app, AACOMAS will covert what I have into:
Chem 101L: General Chemistry (3 unit, A)
Chem 101L8: General Chem Lab (1 unit, A)
?
 
Now I am freaking out too. Because when I asked them I was told to leave it as is on the transcript. But just as in your case there is no indication of lab in any of the titles on the transcript. At the time I was not worried because I knew 4 credits is how they know it is lab + lecture but then again I have bio class that is 4 credits with no lab. I wonder what they will do.

Edit: My classes literally show up like
Bio 1-- 4 credits
Bio 2--4 credits but they both had a lab portion

but the BIoxxx---4 credits had no lab and no indication of it on the transcript.

hmm.
 
Sean Lee said:
@FutureDrB
Are you saying that when reviewing my app, AACOMAS will covert what I have into:
Chem 101L: General Chemistry (3 unit, A)
Chem 101L8: General Chem Lab (1 unit, A)
?
Click to expand...

That's what the lady I spoke with told me. Maybe they'll ask for the course catalog description. I know this is what they do for course replacements, to make sure the course content is the same.

Just shoot them an email. They respond pretty quickly.
 
This is wonderful ain't it? AACOMAS spends 10 years trying to verify our courses, make a mistake, repeat the process, and we never get into med school.
 
Sean Lee said:
This is wonderful ain't it? AACOMAS spends 10 years trying to verify our courses, make a mistake, repeat the process, and we never get into med school.
Click to expand...

Haha. Calm. It'll get worked out. AACOMAS is 100x better than AMCAS.
 
FutureDrB said:
Haha. Calm. It'll get worked out. AACOMAS is 100x better than AMCAS.
Click to expand...

AMCAS has a place to indicate whether something is lecture of lab, and my AMCAS primary got verified pretty quickly.

It seems that AACOMAS takes twice as long to verify things, and there is no way for you to tell them whether lab is present in a course. You can't even add "and Lab" to classes on your transcript!
 
I believe he has a similar experience regarding lab course classifications

@Awesome Sauceome
Did your app get verified? I remember you had the exact same occurrence of 4.0 lecture, 0.0 lab, but lab is on a separate entry and you had to put P even though it isn't on your transcript. Did AACOMAS change your classification to 3.0 lecture, 1.0 lab, with the same grade spread across both?
 
Fedxup said:
Now I am freaking out too. Because when I asked them I was told to leave it as is on the transcript. But just as in your case there is no indication of lab in any of the titles on the transcript. At the time I was not worried because I knew 4 credits is how they know it is lab + lecture but then again I have bio class that is 4 credits with no lab. I wonder what they will do.

Edit: My classes literally show up like
Bio 1-- 4 credits
Bio 2--4 credits but they both had a lab portion

but the BIoxxx---4 credits had no lab and no indication of it on the transcript.

hmm.
Click to expand...

I've asked AACOMAS about this, about how to tell them whether or not a 4 unit science class has lab or not. They'll probably respond tomorrow.

But I hope that adcoms are aware that schools across the lands have some weird ass **** transcripts...
 
Sean Lee said:
I've asked AACOMAS about this, about how to tell them whether or not a 4 unit science class has lab or not. They'll probably respond tomorrow.

But I hope that adcoms are aware that schools across the lands have some weird ass **** transcripts...
Click to expand...
Please update tomorrow!
I wish they told us to add w/lab or something in the instructions. Oh well. I already submitted mine and am close to verification so I really don't want any hiccups.
 
Fedxup said:
Please update tomorrow!
I wish they told us to add w/lab or something in the instructions. Oh well. I already submitted mine and am close to verification so I really don't want any hiccups.
Click to expand...

I know!

When did you submit, if you don't mind sharing?
 
Sean Lee said:
Awesome.

If I submit next week, I am still early-ish, right?
Click to expand...

Yup ! It is going to take about 3-4 weeks to get verified but early August is still early for D.O. Plus only a few schools have sent secondaries and you can pre write those in the mean time !
 
AlbinoHawk DO said:
No clue, but i imagine you're not the first student with that scenario. If it were me, I'd complete it like the transcript says.
Click to expand...

I just don't want med schools to delay completion of my file (or even worse, not give me a secondary) because they aren't sure whether a bio class has lab or not. I would hope that they wouldn't do that.
 
I didn't ask AACOMAS about this... I have the issue for my physics pre-reqs which were taken at a different institution and are listed as 4 credits without any indication of lab. I'm not really worried about it though, to be honest, because I feel like schools are likely to give you the benefit of the doubt (at many schools they are required co-requisite courses even if they are listed separately/you get separate grades) and this information is easily verifiable through course catalog listings, etc. Especially since pre-reqs are not needed to be complete at the time of application for most schools, I don't think you have anything to truly fret about. Worst case scenario, school processes your app and believes you're lacking in a lab course. You prove to them that your 4 credit course included a lab credit. Voila! From my understanding, something like this won't delay the processing of your entire application!
 
Sean Lee said:
I just don't want med schools to delay completion of my file (or even worse, not give me a secondary) because they aren't sure whether a bio class has lab or not. I would hope that they wouldn't do that.
Click to expand...
Only alternative would be to e-mail each school individually once verified.
 
Sorry, i was out.

FutureDrB said:
Yes, I asked them about a B in a 4-hr Chemistry course (lec. and lab combined), she told me that when they calculate it, it will be two grades, 3-hr lec. B and 1-hr lab B
Click to expand...

+1 - - this is what they do

I was told that we enter the class as is but in case of the lab we would break it into 3 hr lec and 1 hr lab.

If your class is a 4 hour lec then leave it as is. The only time you break it up is when you have the lab+lec combo.

Its best to call AACOMAS and confirm. I'll try calling them tomorrow as well.
 
Sean Lee said:
I got the exact opposite information!

I was told to enter things EXACTLY as they appear on my transcript. And my transcript simply says Gen Chem Lecture 4 units and Gen Chem Lab 0 units.
Click to expand...


I did as well
 
Sean Lee said:
@keels99
Click to expand...
I'm assuming there have been others that got accepted into medical school from your school, so it's not a lost cause. I think it's weird that it says zero lab credits; I didn't have this issue so I can't really give any advice. Sorry!
 
AACOMAS told me that I could include "and lab", but I must provide documentation from the registrar. I thought it is their job to confirm these things with the registrar, not ours?
 
ortnakas said:
I added "with laboratory" to classes with included labs in my application last year, and was verified with no problems.
Click to expand...

Did you have to include documentation from your registrar? AACOMAS said I have to physically mail in some documentation. But my university has an online course catalog on its registrar website! Will AACOMAS both to check it during verification? I mean if they are spending so much time verifying stuff, they must be aware/and actively look for these things, right?

Lastly, if a course says Biology 101L, does that L automatically give away that the course has a lab, at least to med schools?
 
Not meaning to hijack here, but what happens with grade replacement? I took a 3 cr chem lecture and a 1 cr chem lab but received different grades as they were considered separate courses at my uni. The lab grade was fine, but I needed to retake the lecture portion. I retook it last year at another institution where the lecture + lab are combined into a 4 credit like described in the OP. Since AACOMAS splits the 4 credit into 3 + 1, will my first grades be replaced?
 
Bernoulli said:
Not meaning to hijack here, but what happens with grade replacement? I took a 3 cr chem lecture and a 1 cr chem lab but received different grades as they were considered separate courses at my uni. The lab grade was fine, but I needed to retake the lecture portion. I retook it last year at another institution where the lecture + lab are combined into a 4 credit like described in the OP. Since AACOMAS splits the 4 credit into 3 + 1, will my first grades be replaced?
Click to expand...

I think you enter the 4 credit course exactly as it appears on your transcript, and if that course contains a lab component, AACOMAS will do the breakdown for you. But when you are entering it, follow your transcript - at least that's what I've been told.

Also, do your 4 credit course indicate that it has a lab and lecture? I have two types of 4 credit classes; one type includes the lab section on a separate line, but there's 0 credit and no grade next to the section, another type simply don't indicate anywhere that the course has a lab component.
 
I think that it should be AACOMAS' initiative to seek out course listings/catalogues; we shouldn't be the ones providing these materials. After all, they are getting paid to verify things for us! Right?
 
Bernoulli said:
Not meaning to hijack here, but what happens with grade replacement? I took a 3 cr chem lecture and a 1 cr chem lab but received different grades as they were considered separate courses at my uni. The lab grade was fine, but I needed to retake the lecture portion. I retook it last year at another institution where the lecture + lab are combined into a 4 credit like described in the OP. Since AACOMAS splits the 4 credit into 3 + 1, will my first grades be replaced?
Click to expand...

Yes, that was my other question to AACOMAS. Your old class and lab grades will be replaced with the new grade you received in the new 4-hr class. So... if you got a C in the Lecture and an D in the lab, then you retake with the 4-hr class and get a B, you will now have a B for lec and B for lab. Is that clear?
 
Sean Lee said:
I think you enter the 4 credit course exactly as it appears on your transcript, and if that course contains a lab component, AACOMAS will do the breakdown for you. But when you are entering it, follow your transcript - at least that's what I've been told.

Also, do your 4 credit course indicate that it has a lab and lecture? I have two types of 4 credit classes; one type includes the lab section on a separate line, but there's 0 credit and no grade next to the section, another type simply don't indicate anywhere that the course has a lab component.
Click to expand...

My first time taking chem, they were separate courses. I have a different grade for each, so they appear as:
Chem lecture - 3 credits - Grade
Chem lab - 1 credit - Grade

The retake just shows as 4 credits (General Chemistry I - 4 credits - Grade). The course description from the registrar's office at that school says that it is 3 credits lecture, 1 credit lab. I guess I had better make sure AACOMAS knows that when I submit transcripts in order to get grade replacement.

FutureDrB said:
Yes, that was my other question to AACOMAS. Your old class and lab grades will be replaced with the new grade you received in the new 4-hr class. So... if you got a C in the Lecture and an D in the lab, then you retake with the 4-hr class and get a B, you will now have a B for lec and B for lab. Is that clear?
Click to expand...

Very clear. Thank you.
 
Bernoulli said:
My first time taking chem, they were separate courses. I have a different grade for each, so they appear as:
Chem lecture - 3 credits - Grade
Chem lab - 1 credit - Grade

The retake just shows as 4 credits (General Chemistry I - 4 credits - Grade). The course description from the registrar's office at that school says that it is 3 credits lecture, 1 credit lab. I guess I had better make sure AACOMAS knows that when I submit transcripts in order to get grade replacement.



Very clear. Thank you.
Click to expand...

AACOMAS will automatically check course descriptions during verification, right?
 
Sean Lee said:
AACOMAS will automatically check course descriptions during verification, right?
Click to expand...

I just searched through the AACOMAS instruction manual, and I couldn't find anything about having to submit course descriptions. It says that they compare your application with the transcripts, so I assume it is all taken care of on their end unless there is a problem.
 
Bernoulli said:
I just searched through the AACOMAS instruction manual, and I couldn't find anything about having to submit course descriptions. It says that they compare your application with the transcripts, so I assume it is all taken care of on their end unless there is a problem.
Click to expand...

I know it doesn't say, but an AACOMAS representative told me that I can add "and lab" to my science courses, but I am responsible for having the registrar send in documentation. I mean, couldn't they check the registrar's websites for course listings themselves? Isn't that what they do?
 
Update: AACOMAS insist that if I want to add "and lab" to the course, my registrar must send in an official letter.

Do registrars even do that?
 
So I have two options now. Either leave off "and lab" and hope medical schools will be figure it out that the course has lab. Or add "and lab" and hope for the best. It is very easy to check whether a course has lab components, but it seems AACOMAS won't consider anything unless my school sends them an official letter! That's frustrating; why can't they contact my school or even simpler, go online to my school's registrar/course catalogue and check the course!
 
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