ABVP The Canine and Feline Practice

[dvmcatdog]

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Hello!

I just had some confusion on this certification. Is this a board certification? What is a diplomat? What can this certification do for a vet beyond the 4 years of veterinary school? Is the pay different? I just want to know about this certification, what it involves and how long it takes. Thanks so much

 

[CalliopeDVM]

ABVP is a species-specific specialization, as opposed to a physiology/technique specialty (like derm or surgery) - but it is a recognized specialty by the AVMA. That means the Diplomats of the ABVP are considered specialists in the species in which they earned their certification. Unlike most other specialties, though, no residency is required and there is no limit on the number of applicants admitted, so there's no competition to get admitted to a program - if you fulfill the eligibility requirements, you can sit for the examination. It takes a minimum of 5 years of clinical practice to apply, but most are in practice for many more years before applying because of the extra work involved in putting together the requirements for application (case studies, etc.)

http://www.abvp.com/certification

Is there more money in it? Probably not specifically on a dollar-to-Diplomat basis, but if you practice better medicine and have more practical knowledge, that in general might translate to more satisfied clients and better income.

 

[that redhead]

Out of curiosity, is anyone considering going for this? @dyachei @Coquette22 @LetItSnow @DVMDream or any lurkers?

 

[VIN-Foundation]

Hello!
I just had some confusion on this certification. Is this a board certification?

Yes it is an AVMA recognized specialty, meaning it is overseen and regulated by the American Board of Veterinary Specialists. But unlike organ-based specialties (ophthalmology, cardiology) or technique based specialties (radiology, surgery) it is species based-- canine, feline, equine, avian, etc. And unlike a lot of specialties, you can become ABVP certified without doing a residency. Finally, most ABVP practitioners are in primary care whereas a lot of other specialists are at referral practices.

What is a diplomat?

A diplomat is a representative of a foreign country 🙂
A diplomate is a board-certified specialist

What can this certification do for a vet beyond the 4 years of veterinary school? Is the pay different?

Most people who do ABVP do so for professional growth, to challenge themselves and to improve their clinical knowledge. Regarding salaries, in the last survey I saw, ABVPs had higher salaries than nonboarded associates but not as high as specialties such as surgery.

 

[DVMDream]

Out of curiosity, is anyone considering going for this? @dyachei @Coquette22 @LetItSnow @DVMDream or any lurkers?

Not currently. I'm not much of a case writer/researcher type. Just that aspect (writing a report) is already daunting to me. Reminds me of school a lot and I'm still in the "very over school" phase. Maybe I'll feel differently after a few years of practice.

 

[DVMDream]

And that's not even touching on the fact that all of my "cool cases" don't have the funds to fully work up the patient. And even further, my clinic doesn't have the bells and whistles needed to work up/hospitalize a patient like what would be needed. That doesn't even get into that I won't ever hospitalize another patient after an incident that occur two weeks ago because of inappropriate staffing and we're not getting appropriate staffing anytime soon. A big reason I'm considering leaving my second job since graduation.

 

[that redhead]

Not currently. I'm not much of a case writer/researcher type. Just that aspect (writing a report) is already daunting to me. Reminds me of school a lot and I'm still in the "very over school" phase. Maybe I'll feel differently after a few years of practice.

And that's not even touching on the fact that all of my "cool cases" don't have the funds to fully work up the patient. And even further, my clinic doesn't have the bells and whistles needed to work up/hospitalize a patient like what would be needed. That doesn't even get into that I won't ever hospitalize another patient after an incident that occur two weeks ago because of inappropriate staffing and we're not getting appropriate staffing anytime soon. A big reason I'm considering leaving my second job since graduation.

Definitely seems like the case reports are the hardest part of the whole thing, including the exam! Finding something not too complex but not too mundane AND will full work up...yikes. I've read that a lot of people looking to be boarded pay out of pocket for cool cases to go for further work up...not exactly the financial boat I'm in right now

I've been thinking about it more and more though as my new hospital is a LOT more advanced than my first job with the clientele that are (generally) more able/willing to do further work up. I still have a couple years before I can even apply but I'm starting to jot down cases for future consideration.

 

[DVMDream]

Definitely seems like the case reports are the hardest part of the whole thing, including the exam! Finding something not too complex but not too mundane AND will full work up...yikes. I've read that a lot of people looking to be boarded pay out of pocket for cool cases to go for further work up...not exactly the financial boat I'm in right now

I've been thinking about it more and more though as my new hospital is a LOT more advanced than my first job with the clientele that are (generally) more able/willing to do further work up. I still have a couple years before I can even apply but I'm starting to jot down cases for future consideration.

I had a really effing cool case my first few months in practice that would have been super cool to write up. It was a 2yo goldendoodle who I thought was going to have renal dysplasia based on blood work. Turned out that the glomerulonephritis was likely caused by aspergillosis (which we don't even see in this state and the dog had never traveled anywhere). The only issue is that we didn't have ultrasound, so the ultrasound and the cytology were done by the referral clinic. So they got most of the "cool" part of the work up. I just got the "holy **** those kidneys!"... here's your referral. Dog ended up going downhill fast and was euthanized before treatment could even begin. So, super sad case, but super interesting. We still have no idea how this dog may have contracted aspergillus.

 

[LetItSnow]

Out of curiosity, is anyone considering going for this? @dyachei @Coquette22 @LetItSnow @DVMDream or any lurkers?

I've considered it. They note that caseload may make it more difficult for limited practices (like me in ER). Although I'm not really sure what they mean by that - I see plenty of cases per year, and certainly manage 'interesting' cases. They might mean the limited type of caseload (I don't do much derm, ophtho, behavior, allergies.....).

Also, it's 6 years for ABVP, not 5 (at least, for "Canine & Feline Practice").

More importantly to me, I plan on doing CVPP through IVAPM. That also requires 5 yrs practice, though.

 

[pp9]

Not currently. I'm not much of a case writer/researcher type. Just that aspect (writing a report) is already daunting to me. Reminds me of school a lot and I'm still in the "very over school" phase. Maybe I'll feel differently after a few years of practice.

That's what vet students and prevets are for

 

[dyachei]

i thought about it once upon a time. Now I'm up to my eyeballs in joint injury and practice management and it seems like too much

 

[DVMDream]

That's what vet students and prevets are for

You can't have them writing your case report.

 

[pp9]

You can't have them writing your case report.

Does it specifically say that somewhere? Not saying it's a good thing (or a bad thing), but I've heard of DVMs giving students their notes and having them just do the writing aspect of it maybe not specifically for ABVP .

 

[DVMDream]

Does it specifically say that somewhere? Not saying it's a good thing (or a bad thing), but I've heard of DVMs giving students their notes and having them just do the writing aspect of it maybe not specifically for ABVP .

Maybe it is just me, but if I want to become boarded. I should be doing the work. Not making some pre-vet (who is highly unlikely to actually know what they are doing) or a veterinary student (who already has enough on their plate) doing my work for my board certification.

I've never heard of or seen a resident pass the buck off on the papers they need to do like that. So really don't see how this is different.

 

[pp9]

Maybe it is just me, but if I want to become boarded. I should be doing the work. Not making some pre-vet (who is highly unlikely to actually know what they are doing) or a veterinary student (who already has enough on their plate) doing my work for my board certification.

I've never heard of or seen a resident pass the buck off on the papers they need to do like that. So really don't see how this is different.

I don't disagree. I do know plenty of DVMs with a drawer full of potential case reports they are willing to hand out, though.

I think it would also depend on whether you were having a student collect all your data and do all the heavy legwork and giving them no credit vs. 'Here is all of my data, my rough draft, whatever' and having them spit it out on paper and you make the final edit. I've heard of both happening and was actually asked to write someone's paper for them myself, and I wouldn't have been listed as an author.

I think what is acceptable/okay is going to differ from person to person as well as the particular field. Guess it just depends on the DVM and the situation. I've heard some really sad/frustrating stories about people taking first author just because something happened in their lab, or just because no one is going to stop them. I digress.

Interesting discussion nonetheless, I know there have been other threads discussing different situations of doing someone else's work and whether or not that should be 'acceptable' and opinions are always mixed.

 

[that redhead]

I've considered it. They note that caseload may make it more difficult for limited practices (like me in ER). Although I'm not really sure what they mean by that - I see plenty of cases per year, and certainly manage 'interesting' cases. They might mean the limited type of caseload (I don't do much derm, ophtho, behavior, allergies.....).

Also, it's 6 years for ABVP, not 5 (at least, for "Canine & Feline Practice").

More importantly to me, I plan on doing CVPP through IVAPM. That also requires 5 yrs practice, though.

You can apply after 5yrs, sit for the exam one year after that. I also want to do the IVAPM cert but wonder how I’ll find boarded/certified DVMs to write letters for me :/

 

[JaynaAli]

I don't disagree. I do know plenty of DVMs with a drawer full of potential case reports they are willing to hand out, though.

I guess I see case reports required for board certification vs a drawer of cool cases to hand out as two very separate things. Yes, I have a large stack of seven or eight cases that are likely publication worthy that I would possibly give to a student that came to me and expressed interest in my field and possibly wanted to get a publication or poster presentation at a conference under their belt. But for the three publications that I have to write in order to complete my residency, those are on me. I need to be first author, which means I need to do the bulk of the writing, and I am not pawning/cannot pawn them off on a student.

 

[pp9]

I guess I see case reports required for board certification vs a drawer of cool cases to hand out as two very separate things. Yes, I have a large stack of seven or eight cases that are likely publication worthy that I would possibly give to a student that came to me and expressed interest in my field and possibly wanted to get a publication or poster presentation at a conference under their belt. But for the three publications that I have to write in order to complete my residency, those are on me. I need to be first author, which means I need to do the bulk of the writing, and I am not pawning/cannot pawn them off on a student.

Like I said, I definitely don't disagree at all. My comment was intended to be sarcastic...because there are people out there that use students to help with the lengthy writing part.

I guess they figure they collected the data, made the conclusions, etc. and that the act spitting it out on paper isn't worth as much? Not saying that's cool or anything