Academic dilemma...possible expulsion from Ivy League school

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Sorry Humid :oops:.

And to the person doesn't think my opinion matters: You're 100% right. My opinion doesn't matter a hill of beans. Thanks for pointing that out :D.

No. I never said your opinion does not matter. It does. I simply said that your perspective, opposed to the perspective of the adcom's, is not what matters when deciding what is more important to medical school admissions. It is completely rational to feel like a DUI is more of a threat to society. However, is it more of a threat to medical school? No, it is not.

I do not want to belittle anyone. I am simply trying to get you to approach this topic from the perspective of those making the decisions. A one-time DUI offender, who went through treatment, poses no threat to the sanctity of a medical school classroom. This is what matters!

Medicine is about healing people. Society has built a system to deal with, and heal, a DUI offender. Society has not built such a system for cheaters. You can argue that we should create some kind of cheater rehab. Even if this was feasible, here and now, medical schools simply do not have the patience. Thus, no tolerance for academic dishonesty exists in part because they can't help you heal. If they could give you a magic pill to instill dignity and strong morals, they would.:)

Addendum:

This girl should immediately seek psychiatric help. Upon being diagnosed with a preexisting disorder, she should receive consistent treatment until she matriculates. Once she is in recovery and finishing school, she can apply as a recovered OCD sufferer/kleptomaniac who is now being treated for her illness. This applicant would certainly be received better. Unless you appeal to the world of medicine in this way, cheating shows an inexcusable weakness. Name this weakness. Expose it, and bring it forth. Heal this weakness.

If she really can't be diagnosed with a disorder(unlikely), she may need to buffer her matriculation with about 5-10 years of good, honest, citizenship.

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I love your emo signature.

My $0.02:

What the heck is wrong with the modernistic crap that says every poor choice a person makes is due to their parenting, their circumstances, their mental processes, their education, etc. I'm tired of it. If I wanted to take a tangent I could talk for a bit about how we're diagnosing people for being sad with depressive disorder symptoms that last a minimum of two weeks. Let's make pills and write books about the human condition, and how all human's are the same person but just went through different experiences. No.
 
My $0.02:

What the heck is wrong with the modernistic crap that says every poor choice a person makes is due to their parenting, their circumstances, their mental processes, their education, etc. I'm tired of it. If I wanted to take a tangent I could talk for a bit about how we're diagnosing people for being sad with depressive disorder symptoms that last a minimum of two weeks. Let's make pills and write books about the human condition, and how all human's are the same person but just went through different experiences. No.

Right. My point was mostly about "What makes cheating more or less of an illness than a DUI?"

---
It would be interesting to know if there are psych studies out there to determine what percentage of people cheat and under what conditions. I'm sure there are.

Not many people would cheat for 2 points on an exam. But what if the stakes were higher? How high would the stakes have to be for the average-normal person to consider cheating?
 
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It would be interesting to know if there are psych studies out there to determine what percentage of people cheat and under what conditions. I'm sure there are.

Not many people would cheat for 2 points on an exam. But what if the stakes were higher? How high would the stakes have to be for the average-normal person to consider cheating?

Well, if you're curious, I came across these on PubMed:

PubMed said:
Neurosci Biobehav Rev. 2008 Sep 27.

Rules of social exchange: Game theory, individual differences and psychopathology.
Wischniewski J, Windmann S, Juckel G, Brüne M.
Department of Psychiatry, University of Bochum, LWL University-Hospital, Alexandrinenstr. 1, D-44791 Bochum, Germany.

Human social interaction is rarely guided by pure reason. Instead, in situation in which humans have the option to cooperate, to defect, or to punish non-cooperative behavior of another person, they quite uniformly tend to reciprocate "good" deeds, reject unfair proposals, and try to enforce obedience to social rules and norms in non-cooperative individuals ("free-riders"), even if the punishment incurs costs to the punisher. Abundant research using various game theoretical approaches has examined these apparently irrational human behaviors. This article reviews the evolutionary rationale of how such behavior could have been favored by selection. It explores the cognitive mechanisms required to compute possible scenarios of cooperation, defection, and the detection of cheating. Moreover, the article summarizes recent research developments into individual differences in behavior, which suggest that temperament and character as well as between- and within-sex differences in hormonal status influence behavior in social exchange. Finally, we present an overview over studies that have addressed the question of how neuropsychiatric disorders may alter performance in game theoretical paradigms, and propose how empirical approaches into this fascinating field can advance our understanding of human nature.

Dev Sci. 2008 Jul;11(4):495-503.

Lying in the name of the collective good: a developmental study.
Fu G, Evans AD, Wang L, Lee K.
School of Education, Zhejiang Normal University, P.R. China.

The present study examined the developmental origin of 'blue lies', a pervasive form of lying in the adult world that is told purportedly to benefit a collective. Seven, 9-, and 11-year-old Chinese children were surreptitiously placed in a real-life situation where they decided whether to lie to conceal their group's cheating behavior. Children were also assessed in terms of their willingness in hypothetical situations to endorse lying or truth-telling that benefits a collective but at the same time harms an individual. Results showed that as age increased, children became more inclined to endorse lying in the name of the collective good, and to tell lies for their group themselves. Furthermore, children's endorsement about blue lies in hypothetical situations predicted their actual lying behavior.

J Dent Educ. 2007 Aug;71(8):1027-39.

Faculty and student perceptions of academic integrity at U.S. and Canadian dental schools.
Andrews KG, Smith LA, Henzi D, Demps E.
University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio, San Antonio, TX 78299-3900, USA. [email protected]

The issues of cheating and plagiarism in educational settings have received a large amount of attention in recent years. The purpose of this study was to assess the degree to which academic integrity issues currently exist in the dental schools throughout the United States and Canada. An online survey was developed to gather data pertaining to this topic from two key groups in dental education: faculty and students. Responses were obtained from 1,153 students and 423 faculty members. The results of the survey clearly reveal that cheating is a significant problem in dental schools and that significant differences exist between students' and faculty members' perceptions of academic integrity. The challenge for dental schools is to identify effective strategies to prevent cheating opportunities and to implement and enforce effective means of dealing with specific examples of cheating.

Direct link - http://www.jdentaled.org/cgi/reprint/71/8/1027

Am J Pharm Educ. 2006 Aug 15;70(4):73.

Characteristics, prevalence, attitudes, and perceptions of academic dishonesty among pharmacy students.
Rabi SM, Patton LR, Fjortoft N, Zgarrick DP.
Midwestern University Chicago College of Pharmacy, USA. [email protected]

OBJECTIVES: To ascertain background factors that influence pharmacy students' willingness to cheat, describe attitudes regarding methods of cheating, assess prevalence of cheating and determine atmospheres that may aid in preventing academic dishonesty. METHODS: Third-professional year PharmD students at 4 institutions participated in a survey administered by a class representative. RESULTS: Of the 296 students who completed survey instruments, 16.3% admitted to cheating during pharmacy school. Approximately 74% admitted that either they or their classmates had worked on an individual assignment with a friend. Students who cheated during high school or in a prepharmacy program were more likely to cheat during pharmacy school (p < 0.0001). Those who possessed a bachelor of science (BS) degree prior to pharmacy school were less likely to cheat (p < 0.0001). CONCLUSIONS: Academic dishonesty is prevalent among pharmacy students. While few respondents directly admitted to cheating, many admitted to activities traditionally defined as dishonest.

J Dent Educ. 2008 Nov;72(11):1247-60.

The prevalence of academic dishonesty in Texas dental hygiene programs.
Muhney KA, Gutmann ME, Schneiderman E, Dewald JP, McCann A, Campbell PR.
Caruth School of Dental Hygiene, Baylor College of Dentistry, Texas A&M Health Science Center, 3302 Gaston Ave., Dallas, TX 75246;. [email protected].

The media has given much attention to the academic cheating crisis in America. A majority of college students believe that, in today's global environment, it is necessary to cheat in order to get ahead and to compete with their peers. The prevalence and attitudes concerning academic dishonesty of health professions students, including those in medical, dental, and nursing schools, have been extensively researched. No such studies exist in the discipline of dental hygiene. The purpose of this study was to investigate the prevalence of cheating in Texas dental hygiene programs. Four hundred surveys were mailed to twenty Texas dental hygiene schools for graduating students to complete. A total of 289 usable surveys was returned for a response rate of 72.25 percent. Data were analyzed using SPSS with frequencies and chi-square tests. Findings from this study reveal that 86.5 percent of graduating Texas dental hygiene students have cheated a minimum of one time during matriculation. Students identified the demands of what they considered academic overload as the primary justification for cheating behavior.

I'm doing this as work-avoidance, but now I'm feeling guilty about procrastinating. You can hit PsycINFO if you want more information from psychology.
 
On an exceptionally relevant note, it's absolutely hilarious how many people/places are named "Dumas." Seriously. Google it.
The proper pronunciation is "doo-mah."
 
The proper pronunciation is "doo-mah."

If my name was "Tinéquoc," "Assefasse," "Tittefouc" I'd be pissed, regardless of its French pronunciation
 
Beardface.jpg


"It's Beard-fah-SEY!"
 
Right. My point was mostly about "What makes cheating more or less of an illness than a DUI?"

---
It would be interesting to know if there are psych studies out there to determine what percentage of people cheat and under what conditions. I'm sure there are.

Not many people would cheat for 2 points on an exam. But what if the stakes were higher? How high would the stakes have to be for the average-normal person to consider cheating?


I don't know. I think part of it is just societal and the way the adcom works, for whatever reason they have decided that cheating is way worse than having a history of a DUI/OUI. However, I think that you could justify this and say that alcohol impairs the brain's ability to make good judgment, and that if one was only mildly/moderately intoxicated that it would be very easy to think that he/she had the capacity to drive.

When someone commits academic dishonesty, he/she is most likely doing it sober (one would think, right-- but who the hell knows what's going on at those ivy league schools these days)... no chemicals impairing the judgment there. It is a moral decision that that make.
 
It's a little disturbing to see the lack of ambivalence in this thread from both sides. Immoral behavior or not, anyone with a >3.9 GPA at an ivy league school can likely be defined as a perfectionist. With perfectionism, you typically see co-dependence, narcissism, and work-addiction (sorta like alcoholism no?). In my mind and I would hope in my doctor's mind, those are pretty serious mental issues.

Edit: Add the irrationality factor of cheating for two points.
 
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Those who possessed a bachelor of science (BS) degree prior to pharmacy school were less likely to cheat (p < 0.0001).

:eek::eek:. Apparently accepting me to medical school was a calculated risk :laugh:.
 
The Internet Arm-Chair Psychiatrist strikes again!

You will make a fine expert witness, manufacturing mental illness where there is only a character deficit.

We can only speculate to her mental state. I'm simply pointing out your inability to show any kind of ambivalence. It must make for some great bedside manner.

Edit: I'm not condoning cheating. I'm just saying like most things it's not ALL OR NOTHING like people want to believe.
 
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Thank you for your very clear expression of my above point. :smuggrin:
 
We can only speculate to her mental state. I'm simply pointing out your inability to show any kind of ambivalence. It must make for some great bedside manner.
do I detect a hint of Burnett's law?

Edit: I'm not condoning cheating. I'm just saying like most things it's not ALL OR NOTHING like people want to believe.

Agreed. You and the test could have been on a break. Then you went out with the test's super hot friend who totally wanted you... that's not really cheating, you were on a break.
 
I love your emo signature.

I'm assuming this is in reference to PainKiller69's "every rose has a thorn". Every time I see it, I misread it as a reference to Poison.

Just like every cowboy sings his sad, sad song.

Okay, I'll take my old person music back to the Nontrad forum where it's appreciated.
 
I'm assuming this is in reference to PainKiller69's "every rose has a thorn". Every time I see it, I misread it as a reference to Poison.

Just like every cowboy sings his sad, sad song.

Okay, I'll take my old person music back to the Nontrad forum where it's appreciated.

:horns:
 
You have got to be ****ing kidding me.

Drunk drivers are scum. They knowingly and consciously put other people's lives at risk. "Bu-bu-but I was drunk" isn't a legitimate excuse, as there does not exist a legitimate excuse for the act. I've been blackout drunk before many times, and never driven. Once, I thought I had a place to crash when I didn't. I slept on the backseat of my car. Why? Because even when completely destroyed, I knew that drunk driving is one of those cardinal sins you never, ever commit.

But, I bet you have used your cell phone while driving. Cell phone users "consciously put other people's lives at risk." So, what then is the difference between you and the drunk driver?

oh, I posted it already, but if you forgot....NEJM agrees with me. http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/336/7/453
 
Actually, I don't. Please play again.

What an idiotic argument. Hey, you do X which is as bad as Y, so doing Y must be okay!
 
But, I bet you have used your cell phone while driving. Cell phone users "consciously put other people's lives at risk." So, what then is the difference between you and the drunk driver?

oh, I posted it already, but if you forgot....NEJM agrees with me. http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/336/7/453

This doesn't make a case for drunk driving. Just don't do either. What are we going to do: decide which one gets more people killed, and deem that as "bad", and the other "good"? At least phone calls can lead to something positive. What does drunk driving lead to other than more wrecks, higher body count, etc? Getting home while buzzed isn't exactly a "victory."
 
But, I bet you have used your cell phone while driving. Cell phone users "consciously put other people's lives at risk." So, what then is the difference between you and the drunk driver?

oh, I posted it already, but if you forgot....NEJM agrees with me. http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/336/7/453

:laugh: i never understood how people can make such utterly garbage arguments like this
 
This doesn't make a case for drunk driving. Just don't do either. What are we going to do: decide which one gets more people killed, and deem that as "bad", and the other "good"? At least phone calls can lead to something positive. What does drunk driving lead to other than more wrecks, higher body count, etc? Getting home while buzzed isn't exactly a "victory."

I never was trying to "make the case" for drunk driving. I was however trying to expose the hypocrisy that many have about DUIs and their own behavior of talking/texting while driving. Many people are more than willing to bash the drunk drivers for being heartless kid-killing miscreants, yet will haphazardly navigated our streets while texting back to their boyfriend. They cannot see the similarity.

I don't quite believe anyone who says they have never talked on the phone while driving -- just the same as I would never believe someone who says he has never broken the law (breaking the speed limit is breaking the law). You NEVER did? Really?? Not even by one MPH or just to tell the person you'd call 'em back? Really?
 
Meh, people seem to like to get worked up and yammer about anything even distantly related to a thread topic.

Still can't figure out what talking on the phone while driving has to do with whether it's better to choose expulsion or suspension from an honor court sentence over cheating on a test.
 
Uhh.... :eek:
 
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This thread is amazing!
 
:laugh: i never understood how people can make such utterly garbage arguments like this

There is some study out there that came to the conclusion that you are more dangerous driving with a cell phone in your ear than driving with a BAC of .10. a BAC of .10 is not drunk. Some states want to make .01 ... which is absolute insanity.
 
This thread is weird. Prior to the cheating incident, the girl in question was probably on track to get into a great allopathic medical school, but now she's going to have immense difficulty getting into any medical school at all. If I were she, I'd just abandon the doctor plan entirely and go into some other cool field like teaching or public health or something. Look at the big picture: there is no such thing as the perfect job, being a doctor isn't the be-all-end-all of amazingness, and I'm sure this girl can find another career that will make her very happy -- a career that isn't going to scrutinize her to death or make her jump through as many hoops as medicine surely will at this point. If she can simply bring herself to give up the doctor fixation, this girl will almost definitely be able to find another cool career to which she can apply her intelligence and empathetic character, and in a few years she will (hopefully) end up at least as happy as anyone else on this thread. Didn't anyone else see that weird blurb in a recent issue of "Science" about a pre-med who committed manslaughter while drunk, went to jail for it, but is now a happy and high-achieving biology Ph.D. student? Just because you make a bad mistake doesn't mean your life is over; not being able to become a doctor doesn't mean your life is over, either. The whole question around which this thread is based ("Will this girl still be able to get into medical school and not just any medical school but an allopathic one?") strikes me as weirdly myopic.
 
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This thread is weird. Prior to the cheating incident, the girl in question was probably on track to get into a great allopathic medical school, but now she's going to have immense difficulty getting into any medical school at all. If I were she, I'd just abandon the doctor plan entirely and go into some other cool field like teaching or public health or something. Look at the big picture: there is no such thing as the perfect job, being a doctor isn't the be-all-end-all of amazingness, and I'm sure this girl can find another career that will make her very happy -- a career that isn't going to scrutinize her to death or make her jump through as many hoops as medicine surely will at this point. If she can simply bring herself to give up the doctor fixation, this girl will almost definitely be able to find another cool career to which she can apply her intelligence and empathetic character, and in a few years she will (hopefully) end up at least as happy as anyone else on this thread. Didn't anyone else see that weird blurb in a recent issue of "Science" about a pre-med who committed manslaughter while drunk, went to jail for it, but is now a happy and high-achieving biology Ph.D. student? Just because you make a bad mistake doesn't mean your life is over; not being able to become a doctor doesn't mean your life is over, either. The whole question around which this thread is based ("Will this girl still be able to get into medical school and not just any medical school but an allopathic one?") strikes me as weirdly myopic.

Maybe, maybe not. Both of the options you've mentioned (teaching and public health) generally require advanced degrees or professional certifications, and these applications do ask about criminal convictions and academic dishonesty. I haven't seen the Science article, but I'm curious about the timeframe from commission of the crime to matriculation to graduate school. It's entirely possible to turn one's life around and potentially get back on track, but I'd be very surprised if it were a quick fix - sight unseen, I imagine the student in question spent a significant amount of time between completion of the the jail term and matriculation (5+ years), but I happily admit I could be wrong.
 
I'm not saying that public health schools wouldn't ask about her about past academic dishonesty; I'm just willing to bet that they'd care significantly less about her answer than med schools would. My sense is that medicine is one of the most notoriously uptight fields that there is. In any case, my point was that this girl would have a better shot at happiness if she stopped asking bizarrely myopic questions like "What can I do to get into allopathic school?" and instead start asking herself questions like "What can I do to make a happy, fruitful, integrity-guided life for myself?" Not to mention that if she hadn't had a bizarrely myopic mindset to begin with, she wouldn't have got herself into this pickle in the first place.

By the way, here is the "Science" article I mentioned:

"TURNING AROUND. Craig Ulrich was studying biology at the University of Washington, Seattle, in 2004 when he shot a friend after a night of partying. Instead of graduating from college and going to medical school, he spent 4 years in a state prison after being convicted of manslaughter. But now Ulrich has his life back on track, thanks in part to his interest in science.
While serving his time, Ulrich studied how to improve the efficiency of the prison's composting system. The corrections center now generates half as much food waste and produces 5000 kg of organic fertilizer a year for its gardens.

"His work caught the attention of Nalini Nadkarni, an ecologist at The Evergreen State College in Olympia, Washington, who had worked with other inmates to investigate sustainable cultivation of certain mosses harvested illegally for use in flower arrangements. Earlier this year, the pair published a paper in Environment, Development and Sustainability on the advantages of enlisting inmates in research, and in August, Ulrich gave a talk at the annual meeting of the Ecological Society of America. "I walked in a prisoner and walked out a scientist," he told his audience. Ulrich is now a graduate student in biochemistry at the University of Nevada, Reno."
 
While I don't condone cheating, I feel that people are a bit too harsh on the girl. She cheated, got caught and was justly reprimanded. Cheaters walk a thin line, and sooner or later they'll be exposed for what they really are. I mean it's only natural to hate them if they do less work than you to get the same results, but they're only hurting themselves in the long run. You just got to hope that they'll be exposed before they hurt other people.

However, I do concede the point that cheating does display a fatal flaw in character, perhaps one more fatal than drunk driving. Although I don't think it's really fair to compare the two, the act of cheating is made voluntarily(and usually when sober) while drunk driving usually occurs while judgment is impaired. Trying to classify cheating as a disease is just trying to find an excuse for an inexcusable action. Though I guess alcoholism is kind of the same way, you did choose to drink to begin with.
 
I'm SO glad she cheated. With those kinds of grades, she would've become a doctor, and I'm not so sure it would've been for the right reasons. Since the app process wouldn't have done it, it's good that she managed to weed herself out (and in such a stupid, pre-med-ish way)

Is there some sort of Darwin-like award for stuff like this? If not, then I'm making my own right now: she is the 2008 recipient of the Weeder Award
 
It.... it.... it lives! :eek:
 
oh wow....
premeds scare me to death: both this girl and many of the following posters..
 
It seems to me that if you change the subject from cheating to drunk driving, the same statement also holds true. It does seem that most premeds don't think cheating is that big a deal and many people in the medical field don't think drunk driving is a big deal. Why? Could it because they have seen this sort of behavior too often around them?

Lastly, I find statements from MattD listed below very offensive, it is scary that those statements came from a medical professional.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by MattD
Wait... Surely you're not trying to say that your opinion is worth more than mine JUST because you've been studying and working and researching in that particular field for most of your life and I've only started thinking about the topic last week????

What, are you saying you're better than me or something? You pompous, elitist donkey's behind! I'll have you know that my tuition pays your salary, so you'd better watch your step. You work for me!
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Wow, someone created a new account JUST to anonymously flame me! I'm flattered, really I am :)

Also, have you never heard or read a sarcastic statement in your life? I mean, the quote you reference is D-R-I-P-P-I-N-G with sarcasm. Just so you 'get the joke', the statement was made toward someone who is a university professor. I have also taught undergraduates from time to time. I was making an in-joke based on that shared experience about the foolish ideas many undergrads have about their own importance. I have heard words nearly identical to what I wrote spoken by actual real-life ******* students. It was funny then, and still is.

And for the record, seeing as how the individual my statement was directed toward 'got the joke' and laughed, perhaps YOU should reconsider YOUR interpretation of what was said before maligning my character.
 
It's a little disturbing to see the lack of ambivalence in this thread from both sides. Immoral behavior or not, anyone with a >3.9 GPA at an ivy league school can likely be defined as a perfectionist. With perfectionism, you typically see co-dependence, narcissism, and work-addiction (sorta like alcoholism no?). In my mind and I would hope in my doctor's mind, those are pretty serious mental issues.

Edit: Add the irrationality factor of cheating for two points.

We can only speculate to her mental state. I'm simply pointing out your inability to show any kind of ambivalence. It must make for some great bedside manner.

Edit: I'm not condoning cheating. I'm just saying like most things it's not ALL OR NOTHING like people want to believe.

<ACCENT="Inigo Montoya">

You keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means. </ACCENT>



am·biv·a·lence (&#257;m-b&#301;v'&#601;-l&#601;ns)
n.
The coexistence of opposing attitudes or feelings, such as love and hate, toward a person, object, or idea.

Uncertainty or indecisiveness as to which course to follow.
 
Are people still on this thread? I think the OP stopped posting a while ago:laugh:
 
Here is a pre-med dilemma for you all.....

One of my ex-classmates has a 3.93 at an Ivy League university. She is a junior and a biology major/pre-med. Two weeks ago, she received a grade of 96 on her chemistry midterm, but she needed a 98 to receive an A+. She decided to cheat and change a two point question to the correct answer when she received the exam back and submit it for a regrade. Unknown to her, the professor had photocopied the original exam and compared her original to the regrade and they were different. She was immediately placed on academic probation and the honor council decided to give her a harsh punishment to set an example for other students who would consider cheating. She will either:
(A) be expelled or
(B) fail her chemistry class, withdraw from all of her classes this semester, and be suspended for two extra semesters (Spring and Fall 2009)

She still expressed hopes of returning to her original college (if she is not expelled). If she is, she will finish up her undergraduate career at another college. She desperately wants to be a physician and is a deeply empathetic person, but with this large stain on her record, is there ANY REMOTE CHANCE she could get into an allopathic medical school or will this essentially prevent her from that?


Sure, she can go to the Caribbean Med Schools or D.O. school? :laugh: Sometimes the purpose of one's life may be to serve as a warning to others. She should have known better, hope it works out for her, ideally, they would just give her a lower grade in that one class, expulsion from an Ivy League school would be rare (depending on who daddy warbucks is). Sad story, wonder how it will end.
 
[/SIZE].

Sure, she can go to the Caribbean Med Schools or D.O. school? :laugh: Sometimes the purpose of one's life may be to serve as a warning to others. She should have known better, hope it works out for her, ideally, they would just give her a lower grade in that one class, expulsion from an Ivy League school would be rare (depending on who daddy warbucks is). Sad story, wonder how it will end.
Not this thread again.... Just let it die!
 
There are programs that give out a 4.3 on a 4.0 scale? ...Or is it a 4.3 scale?
A+'s at CUNY seem to be discretionary. I have had a couple classes where I had an A+ avg. and only got an A. I think the attitude is that it's the same GPA so it doesn't matter. They look nice tho.
 
@mtnlion44 I can see you're new around here so I'll give you some much needed advice. Before you post, check to see when the last post date was on the thread. You just necro-bumped a thread that has been dead for 5 years.
Also, if that is you in your avatar, change the picture.
1) You look creepy.
2) The perks to staying anonymous on SDN outweigh a selfie.
3) Only noobs use selfies.
 
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