Academy to HPSP to Residency...Please Help!

[JPAF]

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Fast, neat, average,...

but anyways, i am taking an HPSP out of the academy and going to the University of Miami (at least that’s the plan for now). I was wondering how residency really works because nobody seems to know (or they don’t want to tell us). How do we get selected? What does it take to get a competitive residency straight out (ie. ortho, derm, ENT) without doing GMO/Flight surgeon? Is it smart to go to Miami on HPSP or is USUHS a better choice to get my competitive match. Can we even take civilian residencies if we couldn’t get what we wanted? Would someone be more competitive if they went to Georgetown or Tulane because of the name? Basically, what us zoomies want to know is what it takes to not get the BOHICA crap that we are used to…

Thanks…120 days!

 

[kingcer0x]

Fast, neat, average,...

but anyways, i am taking an HPSP out of the academy and going to the University of Miami (at least that’s the plan for now). I was wondering how residency really works because nobody seems to know (or they don’t want to tell us). How do we get selected? What does it take to get a competitive residency straight out (ie. ortho, derm, ENT) without doing GMO/Flight surgeon? Is it smart to go to Miami on HPSP or is USUHS a better choice to get my competitive match. Can we even take civilian residencies if we couldn’t get what we wanted? Would someone be more competitive if they went to Georgetown or Tulane because of the name? Basically, what us zoomies want to know is what it takes to not get the BOHICA crap that we are used to…

Thanks…120 days!

Well I just went through the mil match for the AF and know a few people who did academy/hpsp some with AD in between.

1. You will apply to the military match (JSGME) like everyone else
in your 4th year. If you are interested in a deferral (which you can in fact get coming out of the academy) you will also apply to civilian residencies at this time.

2. You will get selected for an AF spot or a deferral based on a scoring system for med school performance, research, prior service (medical more than non medical). If you are a FS/GMO, then you are graded on your OPRs. You don't get prior service points for going to the academy unless you did AD. It does however factor into the "potential for success as a career AF officer" i'm sure. Thats the only real variable in the process (I would call it something derogatory but that isn't fair).

3. Competitive specialties (especially deferrals) require you to max out on everything out of medical school. Otherwise, FS/GMO is the only way to go.

4. I dont think USUHS students get any preference and they 99% of the time do not get deferrals. You want to go HPSP if you want those competitive specialities AND a deferral to train civilian. See note above for "potential for success".

5. Med school "prestige" is pretty well known by senior medical officers at the board and could come into play. Some schools may be "favorites" . All those schools you describe seem pretty comparable in that regards though. Just go where you think you will get the best education and be the most comfortable. I'm sure all of them will be some welcome time off from the AF and the academy.

5. There is a high chance that you will not get what you want even if by civilian standards you are competitive. There are lots of qualified applicants and lots of (probably qualified) field applicants waiting for that competitive specialty. Thats just the way it is right now.

6. One thing you should definitely investigate is how civilian versus military training for med school or residency affects your pay and your career plans (i.e. retirement). There are many threads on this.

Who knows, maybe we will be starting civilian residency together when I am done with being a GMO. See you on the other side of med school, have fun.

-M4

 

[Galo]

Fast, neat, average,...

but anyways, i am taking an HPSP out of the academy and going to the University of Miami (at least that’s the plan for now). I was wondering how residency really works because nobody seems to know (or they don’t want to tell us). How do we get selected? What does it take to get a competitive residency straight out (ie. ortho, derm, ENT) without doing GMO/Flight surgeon? Is it smart to go to Miami on HPSP or is USUHS a better choice to get my competitive match. Can we even take civilian residencies if we couldn’t get what we wanted? Would someone be more competitive if they went to Georgetown or Tulane because of the name? Basically, what us zoomies want to know is what it takes to not get the BOHICA crap that we are used to…

Thanks…120 days!

Bohica is something you will have to continue to get used to in the military. My only warning is IF you get a civilian deferment, make sure that you do not allow the military to SPONSOR you, as it will add yet more time to your already lengthy commitment. I know a Neurosurgeon, academy grad, USHUS or HPSP, and then he let them sponsor his residency, and owes like 17 years. He's not happy.

Best of luck

 

[JPAF]

Bohica is something you will have to continue to get used to in the military. My only warning is IF you get a civilian deferment, make sure that you do not allow the military to SPONSOR you, as it will add yet more time to your already lengthy commitment. I know a Neurosurgeon, academy grad, USHUS or HPSP, and then he let them sponsor his residency, and owes like 17 years. He's not happy.

Best of luck

Thanks! Everyone has pretty much explained the commitment stuff but we were all wondering about most of what you described...your post was very helpful. Is it because i went to the Academy that I am able to recieve a deferment? What process does a deferment entail? Would I just earn my pay from working as a resident? It seems like HPSP is the way to go (for me at least)...I just got acceptances to Georgetown and Tulane, but Miami is where I think I can stand out. I just don't want to regret choosing a school that would possibly close some doors for me as far as the "good ole boys" of the selection boards are concerned...thanks again!

Just got out of an hour long lesson on how to write bullets...WTF, minimize white space right? Without acronyms like BOHICA and IHTFP where would we be...but despite the cynicism I am really excited to move on to the next round! I'll make sure to pass on this info to my buds here at the hill...

 

[kingcer0x]

Thanks! Everyone has pretty much explained the commitment stuff but we were all wondering about most of what you described...your post was very helpful. Is it because i went to the Academy that I am able to recieve a deferment? What process does a deferment entail? Would I just earn my pay from working as a resident? It seems like HPSP is the way to go (for me at least)...I just got acceptances to Georgetown and Tulane, but Miami is where I think I can stand out. I just don't want to regret choosing a school that would possibly close some doors for me as far as the "good ole boys" of the selection boards are concerned...thanks again!

Just got out of an hour long lesson on how to write bullets...WTF, minimize white space right? Without acronyms like BOHICA and IHTFP where would we be...but despite the cynicism I am really excited to move on to the next round! I'll make sure to pass on this info to my buds here at the hill...

A cilivian deferment for residency is one you must aply for, is quite competitive, and only HPSP may apply for it. The fact that you went to the academy doesn't preclude you from obtaining one (unlike USUHS who has little or no chance of getting one). Its not like "well I didnt get into Ortho at Wilford Hall but I will get a deferment.", you have to apply to the JSGME for one, then apply through the national civilian match (ERAS).

If you get a civilian deferment, you are not paid by the military, rather your residency program. This is undoubtedly less money than mil residency. After you are done with residency, you serve on active duty. There is a route which Galo talked about where you choose a "civilian sponsored" residency where the military pays your salary, you train wheever you want (it will be good because you are free!), then you owe i believe one EXTRA year for every year you received money in residency.

 

[tscottturner]

As a fellow academy grad (USMA, not USAFA) I highly recommend doing your time on AD, getting out, then going through med school as a civilian (if it's not too late for you) unless you are just absolutely dead set on being a military physician. It will actually make you much more desirable for the "highly" selective med schools (because of experience and perceived maturity level), and the obvious not owing anyone anything.

 

[JPAF]

As a fellow academy grad (USMA, not USAFA) I highly recommend doing your time on AD, getting out, then going through med school as a civilian (if it's not too late for you) unless you are just absolutely dead set on being a military physician. It will actually make you much more desirable for the "highly" selective med schools (because of experience and perceived maturity level), and the obvious not owing anyone anything.

It is too late...I'm either a pilot or a physician. i feel I already got into some great medical schools based on my experience at the academy (Georgetown, Tulane, Miami). I am okay with being a military physician, I am just trying to figure out the best route/medical school/strategy to not being shafted with my residency. I already signed on the dotted line a long time ago, especially with my pilot AFSC as the back-up. I just need some good advice on whether or not it is advantageous to go to one school or another (I want to go to Miami because its a good school with lots of clinical experience at Jackson, close to home) or choosing a specific program over another in order to get a competitive mil match. Anybody have a strategy or suggestions on this? Thanks

 

[JPAF]

A cilivian deferment for residency is one you must aply for, is quite competitive, and only HPSP may apply for it. The fact that you went to the academy doesn't preclude you from obtaining one (unlike USUHS who has little or no chance of getting one). Its not like "well I didnt get into Ortho at Wilford Hall but I will get a deferment.", you have to apply to the JSGME for one, then apply through the national civilian match (ERAS).

If you get a civilian deferment, you are not paid by the military, rather your residency program. This is undoubtedly less money than mil residency. After you are done with residency, you serve on active duty. There is a route which Galo talked about where you choose a "civilian sponsored" residency where the military pays your salary, you train wheever you want (it will be good because you are free!), then you owe i believe one EXTRA year for every year you received money in residency.

Thanks for the info! This has been a tremendous help!

 

[Galo]

You should choose the best medical school possible. I do not know whether Miami is better than Georgetown, unfortunately, because you are in the military, I am not sure how much of a difference it will make when you apply to residency. Also, you should do medical school where you think you will be able to flourish. As you can see in alot of previous posts about GME, what you want to do, may not necessarily be what the USAF needs at the time and I hope you do not get stuck doing GMO/FS.

No point worrying about what will not happen for years, concentrate on being the best you can in medical school, and then learn everything you can about the military GME selection process. If you can get a deferment, especially for surgical specialties, you should try it.

 

[Mirror Form]

Since the OP has a 9 year commitment, I don't know if I'd recomend a civilian deferrment if a good residency program in his desired specialty is available. Along with the salary difference, I find it hard to believe that doing your residency in the military won't help you both in getting approved to apply for fellowships and placement upon graduation.

Of course though, the most important thing is good training during residency, so do your research first. And don't be the idiot who talks to the staff and residents about how great the program is. First determine the right questions to ask (usually involves numbers), and then ask for the straight stats.

 

[kingcer0x]

It is too late...I'm either a pilot or a physician. i feel I already got into some great medical schools based on my experience at the academy (Georgetown, Tulane, Miami). I am okay with being a military physician, I am just trying to figure out the best route/medical school/strategy to not being shafted with my residency. I already signed on the dotted line a long time ago, especially with my pilot AFSC as the back-up. I just need some good advice on whether or not it is advantageous to go to one school or another (I want to go to Miami because its a good school with lots of clinical experience at Jackson, close to home) or choosing a specific program over another in order to get a competitive mil match. Anybody have a strategy or suggestions on this? Thanks

I went to Boston U which is a good medical school and will be doing a tour as an FS/GMO.

Just go where you will dominate cause apparently thats what it takes.

 

[BOHICA-FIGMO]

Fast, neat, average,...

but anyways, i am taking an HPSP out of the academy and going to the University of Miami (at least that's the plan for now). I was wondering how residency really works because nobody seems to know (or they don't want to tell us). How do we get selected? What does it take to get a competitive residency straight out (ie. ortho, derm, ENT) without doing GMO/Flight surgeon? Is it smart to go to Miami on HPSP or is USUHS a better choice to get my competitive match. Can we even take civilian residencies if we couldn't get what we wanted? Would someone be more competitive if they went to Georgetown or Tulane because of the name? Basically, what us zoomies want to know is what it takes to not get the BOHICA crap that we are used to…

Thanks…120 days!

..friendly, good, good.
Man, if I were you, I would take the HPSP and run with it. I don't know the regs now, but back in the day (circa '94..RED HOT!!) only ~12% or so got to go to medical school at all, much less take the civilian HPSP. Go to Miami. Live as a civilian. Enjoy.

If you go USUHS, you HAVE to take a military match. With HPSP, you can apply for a civilian deferment (i.e., spend 3-5 additional happy years as a civilian during residency). Either way, what residency you get will be determined by grades, board scores, and clerkships.

Also consider payback time. 5 yrs (or is it 6yr now?) for the academy + 7 years for USUHS (after residency) = twelve years. If you take a military residency, your first opportunity to get out would be 19-21 years from now in the year 2027-2029. (4yrs USUHS + 3 to 5 yrs residency + 12 yrs USUHS & USAFA payback = 19-21 years.) If you want to stay that long, great. But I think many of us would rather have options.

 

[JPAF]

..friendly, good, good.
Man, if I were you, I would take the HPSP and run with it. I don't know the regs now, but back in the day (circa '94..RED HOT!!) only ~12% or so got to go to medical school at all, much less take the civilian HPSP. Go to Miami. Live as a civilian. Enjoy.

If you go USUHS, you HAVE to take a military match. With HPSP, you can apply for a civilian deferment (i.e., spend 3-5 additional happy years as a civilian during residency). Either way, what residency you get will be determined by grades, board scores, and clerkships.

Also consider payback time. 5 yrs (or is it 6yr now?) for the academy + 7 years for USUHS (after residency) = twelve years. If you take a military residency, your first opportunity to get out would be 19-21 years from now in the year 2027-2029. (4yrs USUHS + 3 to 5 yrs residency + 12 yrs USUHS & USAFA payback = 19-21 years.) If you want to stay that long, great. But I think many of us would rather have options.

Nice! Mitches...still awsome! thanks for the advice...I think I'm pretty much set on Miami and the HPSP.

Still 5 yrs and the +4 is way better then +7 (USUHS)...

In 100 days its plam trees and beaches for me...ahhh, no more SAMIs, AMIs, NMFs, Parades, IRIs, Comms Challenge, or whatever BS the academy can make up to waste my time...thanks again BOHICA-FIGMO!

 

[Cheetah]

4. I dont think USUHS students get any preference and they 99% of the time do not get deferrals. You want to go HPSP if you want those competitive specialities AND a deferral to train civilian. See note above for "potential for success".

5. Med school "prestige" is pretty well known by senior medical officers at the board and could come into play. Some schools may be "favorites" . All those schools you describe seem pretty comparable in that regards though. Just go where you think you will get the best education and be the most comfortable. I'm sure all of them will be some welcome time off from the AF and the academy.



-M4

To comment on these two points. Where you go does matter because the people you will be ultimately working for (also the ones who sit on the selection board) are military physicians. Military friendly schools like G-town and Tulane are prominent in the AF. If you're looking to do ortho, its a good ol' boys club pretty much. I would say about 90% Academy grads. As for diff between USUHS and HPSP, the JSGME has a point system. Part of it is military potential, a very subjective part of the selection process. The military will take somebody who owes 7 versus 3 or 4 if the charts are identical. So, keep that in mind. Also, you get points for grades, board scores, GMO time, etc. As for deferments, it is true that USU grads don't get deferments, to an extent. In the past couple of years a select few have gotten civ deferments. OTW, do a PGY-1 year and then you can apply for civ or mil GME slots. BTW, good to know terms like BOHICA and IHTFP is still going.

Good luck,

Cheetah
USUHS 2006
USAFA 95 (KTP)

 

[Heeed!]

This is all crazy talk! Since I have some experience in these areas, I recommend you GO FLY!...then go to med school, if you want. Flying = fun👍 disimpactions = not fun👎