Acceptance rescinded due to dismissed misdemeanor charge?

[So worde]

Okay so I have a misdemeanor charge on my background from three years ago. Its a shoplifting charge, I know I'm an idiot, that was eventually dismissed because I did diversion for it. In my state they would not allow the charge to be expunged. I filled out the certiphi background check and when it asked about misdemeanors I answered no because it read as follows: Have you ever been convicted of, or pleaded guilty or no contest to, a misdemeanor crime, excluding (1) any offense for which you were adjudicated as a juvenile, (2) any convictions that have been expunged or sealed by a court, or (3) any misdemeanor convictions for which you completed any probation and for which the court dismissed the case (in states where applicable). This last sentence lead me to believe that I did not need to disclose my dismissed case.

Long story short, the background check came back and low and behold the charge shows up on there as a dismissed case with the comments stating that I completed diversion. Is this something that the school would rescind my acceptance over even though the background check states I didn't have to disclose it?

Also something to add - the school I was accepted to never asked any questions about charges/convictions of misdemeanors on the secondary app. If I am not wrong about what the background checks misdemeanor disclosed questions is saying, I have not lied or withheld information in anyway.

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[precisiongraphic]

Possibly but there is no other choice than for you to notify your school. Assuming you didn’t lie or misrepresent anything on AMCAS or secondaries you will likely be fine.

Okay so I have a misdemeanor charge on my background from three years ago. Its a shoplifting charge, I know I'm an idiot, that was eventually dismissed because I did diversion for it. In my state they would not allow the charge to be expunged. I filled out the certiphi background check and when it asked about misdemeanors I answered no because it read as follows: Have you ever been convicted of, or pleaded guilty or no contest to, a misdemeanor crime, excluding (1) any offense for which you were adjudicated as a juvenile, (2) any convictions that have been expunged or sealed by a court, or (3) any misdemeanor convictions for which you completed any probation and for which the court dismissed the case (in states where applicable). This last sentence lead me to believe that I did not need to disclose my dismissed case.

Long story short, the background check came back and low and behold the charge shows up on there as a dismissed case with the comments stating that I completed diversion. Is this something that the school would rescind my acceptance over even though the background check states I didn't have to disclose it?

Also something to add - the school I was accepted to never asked any questions about charges/convictions of misdemeanors on the secondary app. If I am not wrong about what the background checks misdemeanor disclosed questions is saying, I have not lied or withheld information in anyway.

 

[So worde]

Possibly but there is no other choice than for you to notify your school. Assuming you didn’t lie or misrepresent anything on AMCAS or secondaries you will likely be fine.

I have contacted the school and spoke with someone in the Deans office and she said I should try not to worry about it and that if they needed more info then they would contact me. I'm just very stressed and very worried that this is going to ruin my shot at medical school

 

[gonnif]

you were correct in reading as it did not have to report it to AMCAS. At worst, the school may require a letter to the dean explaining. This is used for their files if they are audited or reviewed it shows due diligence on the schools part.

If you need to write a letter it should VERY VERY SHORT (6-8 sentences at most). If it gets to that point PM for assistance

 

[So worde]

you were correct in reading as it did not have to report it to AMCAS. At worst, the school may require a letter to the dean explaining. This is used for their files if they are audited or reviewed it shows due diligence on the schools part.

If you need to write a letter it should VERY VERY SHORT (6-8 sentences at most). If it gets to that point PM for assistance

I'm hoping they won't need a letter but if they do I will most definitely PM you! Thanks so much!!

 

[bioboy23]

I had a misdemeanor charge like 3 years ago too, which I completed a diversion for. I have always been confused whether I need to list it for the upcoming cycle or not because it seems like there are always two opinions...

 

[gonnif]

I had a misdemeanor charge like 3 years ago too, which I completed a diversion for. I have always been confused whether I need to list it for the upcoming cycle or not because it seems like there are always two opinions...

1)If the diversion was cleared with a court dismissal and/or expunged, then for purposes of AMCAS it does not need to be reported
2) even so it may be present on background check and an individual medical can see that. And individual are perfectly free to choose to respond according to their own policy discretionn

 

[bioboy23]

1)If the diversion was cleared with a court dismissal and/or expunged, then for purposes of AMCAS it does not need to be reported
2) even so it may be present on background check and an individual medical can see that. And individual are perfectly free to choose to respond according to their own policy discretionn

My misdemeanor is really nothing that will raise any eyebrows at all (after talking to adcoms about it a while back), so would it be wise just to list it and explain it away with 2-3 sentences? Or not list it and risk schools seeing it and asking about it later, possibly making me look like i'm trying to hide something?

 

[So worde]

So I received a call from the Admissions office. They said while my acceptance will not be revoked, the dean would like to sit down with me face to face and have a meeting about it. This meeting will discuss what happened, what I've learned, where to go from here, and how this will affect medical licensing and so on. The lady on the phone was very reassuring that they will not be rescinding my acceptance.

 

[So worde]

My misdemeanor is really nothing that will raise any eyebrows at all (after talking to adcoms about it a while back), so would it be wise just to list it and explain it away with 2-3 sentences? Or not list it and risk schools seeing it and asking about it later, possibly making me look like i'm trying to hide something?

In my opinion I think it cant hurt to just be explained early on so that they dont think you were trying to hide it or not disclose it. Personally if I could go back and redo the background check I would have just explained the situation on there. I'm not sure if I would still have to meet with the Dean or not had I done that but either way at least he would have seen that I was trying to be as honest as possible.

 

[gonnif]

My misdemeanor is really nothing that will raise any eyebrows at all (after talking to adcoms about it a while back), so would it be wise just to list it and explain it away with 2-3 sentences? Or not list it and risk schools seeing it and asking about it later, possibly making me look like i'm trying to hide something?

And just how many qualified applicants dont have any misdemeanors?

 

[deleted480308]

My misdemeanor is really nothing that will raise any eyebrows at all (after talking to adcoms about it a while back), so would it be wise just to list it and explain it away with 2-3 sentences? Or not list it and risk schools seeing it and asking about it later, possibly making me look like i'm trying to hide something?

A misdemeanor is always something to raise an eyebrow at....

 

[gonnif]

My misdemeanor is really nothing that will raise any eyebrows at all (after talking to adcoms about it a while back), so would it be wise just to list it and explain it away with 2-3 sentences? Or not list it and risk schools seeing it and asking about it later, possibly making me look like i'm trying to hide something?

In my opinion I think it cant hurt to just be explained early on so that they dont think you were trying to hide it or not disclose it. Personally if I could go back and redo the background check I would have just explained the situation on there. I'm not sure if I would still have to meet with the Dean or not had I done that but either way at least he would have seen that I was trying to be as honest as possible.

A misdemeanor is always something to raise an eyebrow at....

This may fall better under sometimes it is better to get forgiveness than ask permission. Since it is “legal” to not list these on AMCAS, it might be better to let adcom be impressed with application, offer acceptance, then explain after taking acceptance. In a case like this you always start explanation with your understanding of AMCAS, this incident shouldnt have been listed. While I mostly say tell everything upfront but this is the borderline.

 

[bioboy23]

A misdemeanor is always something to raise an eyebrow at....

I guess you can ask the adcoms I’ve talked to then lol. I thought the same thing.

 

[bioboy23]

In my opinion I think it cant hurt to just be explained early on so that they dont think you were trying to hide it or not disclose it. Personally if I could go back and redo the background check I would have just explained the situation on there. I'm not sure if I would still have to meet with the Dean or not had I done that but either way at least he would have seen that I was trying to be as honest as possible.

This may fall better under sometimes it is better to get forgiveness than ask permission. Since it is “legal” to not list these on AMCAS, it might be better to let adcom be impressed with application, offer acceptance, then explain after taking acceptance. In a case like this you always start explanation with your understanding of AMCAS, this incident shouldnt have been listed. While I mostly say tell everything upfront but this is the borderline.

Alright. Thank you both! I’ll figure it out once the time comes.

 

[So worde]

Alright. Thank you both! I’ll figure it out once the time comes.

good luck, everything will work out!

 

[atomi]

A misdemeanor is always something to raise an eyebrow at....

In the state of Virginia you can and will be charged with and convicted of a class A misdemeanor (one step below a felony) for driving 81 mph in a 70 mph zone.

I’m not joking or exaggerating.

Another common tactic is on rural roads for small town cops to post up where the speed limit suddenly drops from 55 to 35 and bust people. Over 20 is automatically a class A misdemeanor in VA as well. This is all of course for the purposes of generating revenue and funding fleets of supercharged police cruisers and SWAT toys for podunk police departments.

There are myriad people out there walking around thinking they just got an expensive speeding ticket when in fact they have a serious criminal record.

The recent news doesn’t surprise me. Completely bass akwards state.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

In the state of Virginia you can and will be charged with and convicted of a class A misdemeanor (one step below a felony) for driving 81 mph in a 70 mph zone.

I’m not joking or exaggerating.

Another common tactic is on rural roads for small town cops to post up where the speed limit suddenly drops from 55 to 35 and bust people. Over 20 is automatically a class A misdemeanor in VA as well. This is all of course for the purposes of generating revenue and funding fleets of supercharged police cruisers and SWAT toys for podunk police departments.

There are myriad people out there walking around thinking they just got an expensive speeding ticket when in fact they have a serious criminal record.

The recent news doesn’t surprise me. Completely bass akwards state.

The speed limit is posted, no? And perhaps it’s because speeding is the second highest cause of traffic collisions and fines have been proven to work.

But I actually agree with your overall point. There are states where any speeding is a misdemeanor. I don’t think adcoms would raise eyebrows about one speeding ticket.

 

[Stellaartwa]

Yeah, I found out from Certiphi that I have a misdemeanor driving with no license from like 8 years ago. I have absolutely no memory of this so I'm sure I didn't have to go to court or anything. It says I paid a ~$25 fine. I don't necessarily think a misdemeanor is always something to raise an eyebrow at. Glad to hear it worked out for you OP!

 

[gonnif]

A misdemeanor is always something to raise an eyebrow at....

I guess you can ask the adcoms I’ve talked to then lol. I thought the same thing.

This will always raise an eyebrow or flag, not necessarily bad but it presents a unknown that an adcom must question. Not applicants emphasis positive, reducing risks is as equally important. An open question or flag on an application is a risk and presents another point where an adcom can reject. With the numbers of applications at several thousand per school for only several hundred to perhaps a thousand interview slots, 80% of applicants must be rejected preinterview invite. In this regard, medical admissions is a negative process; adcoms often need to find reasons to reject

 

[atomi]

The speed limit is posted, no? And perhaps it’s because speeding is the second highest cause of traffic collisions and fines have been proven to work.

But I actually agree with your overall point. There are states where any speeding is a misdemeanor. I don’t think adcoms would raise eyebrows about one speeding ticket.

The speed limit is posted. Yes.

My issue is that the punishment does not match the crime. Not that there is a speed limit. I thought that was fairly clear, but allow me to clarify here.

 

[whorobbedthewoods]

In the state of Virginia you can and will be charged with and convicted of a class A misdemeanor (one step below a felony) for driving 81 mph in a 70 mph zone.

I’m not joking or exaggerating.

Another common tactic is on rural roads for small town cops to post up where the speed limit suddenly drops from 55 to 35 and bust people. Over 20 is automatically a class A misdemeanor in VA as well. This is all of course for the purposes of generating revenue and funding fleets of supercharged police cruisers and SWAT toys for podunk police departments.

There are myriad people out there walking around thinking they just got an expensive speeding ticket when in fact they have a serious criminal record.

The recent news doesn’t surprise me. Completely bass akwards state.

Huh. I got a speeding ticket a few years ago on 295 in VA...for going 81 in a 70. The cop DID threaten to charge to me with reckless driving, but seemed to begrudgingly change his mind when he checked my record & found I had no previous speeding tickets. Otherwise I'd be one of those oblivious criminals you mention--I had no idea until just now that it was a misdemeanor.

 

[bioboy23]

Huh. I got a speeding ticket a few years ago on 295 in VA...for going 81 in a 70. The cop DID threaten to charge to me with reckless driving, but seemed to begrudgingly change his mind when he checked my record & found I had no previous speeding tickets. Otherwise I'd be one of those oblivious criminals you mention--I had no idea until just now that it was a misdemeanor.

Then no med school for you!

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

The speed limit is posted. Yes.

My issue is that the punishment does not match the crime. Not that there is a speed limit. I thought that was fairly clear, but allow me to clarify here.

No I got what you were saying. I just don’t completely agree with it.

 

[confusedMS0]

I posted something similar to this and am also still nervous about it. In my case I was charged with domestic violence but the charges were dropped/dismissed (unsure of the difference) after my lawyer met with the DA and showed video evidence that proved I was innocent. I didn't have to do a diversion program or anything. However my arrest record and charge can still be found online. I'm very nervous about getting my acceptance taken away when I was actually the victim. If anyone has advice or have heard of similar stories I'd be interested to hear.

 

[deleted930283]

The speed limit is posted, no? And perhaps it’s because speeding is the second highest cause of traffic collisions and fines have been proven to work.

It's not that simple. Sometimes driving the speed limit presents more of a danger to the people around you than moving with traffic.

Have you ever driven on a crowded two-lane interstate in the Appalachian mountains? Good luck driving the exact speed limit (which in Virginia is sometimes as low as 55 mph) without clogging up traffic and forcing tractor trailer trucks to merge into the already-crowded left lane as they're flying down mountainsides.

 

[gonnif]

I posted something similar to this and am also still nervous about it. In my case I was charged with domestic violence but the charges were dropped/dismissed (unsure of the difference) after my lawyer met with the DA and showed video evidence that proved I was innocent. I didn't have to do a diversion program or anything. However my arrest record and charge can still be found online. I'm very nervous about getting my acceptance taken away when I was actually the victim. If anyone has advice or have heard of similar stories I'd be interested to hear.

Dropped means prosecution decided not to pursue the case
Dismissed means a judge threw the charges out
An arrest means just that an arrest. It isnt a conviction or anything similar. If your acceptance was rescinded you would have legal recourse as the arrest cannot be taken into account

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

It's not that simple. Sometimes driving the speed limit presents more of a danger to the people around you than moving with traffic.

Have you ever driven on a crowded two-lane interstate in the Appalachian mountains? Good luck driving the exact speed limit (which in Virginia is sometimes as low as 55 mph) without clogging up traffic and forcing tractor trailer trucks to merge into the already-crowded left lane as they're flying down mountainsides.

Nice straw man, but I never argued that you should impede traffic by driving slower than the flow of traffic on a busy 2-lane interstate. Maybe stick to what I actually said.

 

[deleted930283]

Nice straw man, but I never argued that you should impede traffic by driving slower than the flow of traffic on a busy 2-lane interstate. Maybe stick to what I actually said.

Just broadening your perspective.

 

[confusedMS0]

Dropped means prosecution decided not to pursue the case
Dismissed means a judge threw the charges out
An arrest means just that an arrest. It isnt a conviction or anything similar. If your acceptance was rescinded you would have legal recourse as the arrest cannot be taken into account

Really?? Do you have a link to a law or statute that talks about this? I'm in Texas if it matters. Its a HUGE weight off my shoulders to hear this, thank you!!

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Just broadening your perspective.

No, you're putting up a straw man. I've been driving for almost 2 decades and currently live in VA (and have lived and/or driven in most states in this country). I have plenty of perspective, and I didn't say anything about impeding traffic. I would not and did not argue that you should drive the speed limit if it would impede traffic and make it dangerous.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Really?? Do you have a link to a law or statute that talks about this? I'm in Texas if it matters. Its a HUGE weight off my shoulders to hear this, thank you!!

Were charges actually filed by the DA, or did you just get arrested and then have the case dropped after the DA looked at the evidence? Either way though, you will be fine.

 

[confusedMS0]

Were charges actually filed by the DA, or did you just get arrested and then have the case dropped after the DA looked at the evidence? Either way though, you will be fine.

I believe charges were actually filed. I live in an area that files charges on almost 100% of domestic violence claims if a person makes a police report. After I left my ex called the police and told them I assaulted him. I only found out I had a warrant days later. I turned myself in, posted bail, got a lawyer who met with the DA and showed evidence that I was innocent and the DA dropped the charges. I was just worried seeing "domestic violence charge" on a background check would look terrible without all the context, its not like it shows exculpatory evidence in the background check or anything.

 

[atomi]

Huh. I got a speeding ticket a few years ago on 295 in VA...for going 81 in a 70. The cop DID threaten to charge to me with reckless driving, but seemed to begrudgingly change his mind when he checked my record & found I had no previous speeding tickets. Otherwise I'd be one of those oblivious criminals you mention--I had no idea until just now that it was a misdemeanor.

It’s a major failure of justice. I’m saddened to see there are those here who agree that strapping someone with a permanent criminal record and a class A misdemeanor (which carries up to a year in jail) is fair for driving 11 mph over the speed limit (or 16% more than the speed limit in a 70 zone). They are certainly entitled to their opinion and the citizens of Virginia are certainly free to elect politicians that don’t enact such draconian laws to generate revenue under the guise of public safety based on zero scientific evidence. I seriously hate that state.

 

[deleted915325]

Driving over the speed limit by 11 mph should not be a misdemeanor. Anyone who thinks otherwise lacks the crucial assets of a doctor—empathy and the ability to reason outside the box

 

[atomi]

Driving over the speed limit by 11 mph should not be a misdemeanor. Anyone who thinks otherwise lacks the crucial assets of a doctor—empathy and the ability to reason outside the box

To be clear, driving 11 over in a 70 is not only a misdemeanor, it’s a class 1 misdemeanor. Other class 1 misdemeanors in Virginia include domestic abuse, DUI, and assault and battery.

Clearly it’s the same level of crime, and I’m glad we have those to remind us with morally superior platitudes like that the law’s the law.

 

[gonnif]

Really?? Do you have a link to a law or statute that talks about this? I'm in Texas if it matters. Its a HUGE weight off my shoulders to hear this, thank you!!

Its irrelevant to you and med schools.
-Whether you were arrested and never formally charged
-Whether you were formally charged and the DA elected to drop the case
-Whether the DA proceeded but the judge dismissed the case
Its all the same

 

[deleted915325]

To be clear, driving 11 over in a 70 is not only a misdemeanor, it’s a class 1 misdemeanor. Other class 1 misdemeanors in Virginia include domestic abuse, DUI, and assault and battery.

Clearly it’s the same level of crime, and I’m glad we have those to remind us with morally superior platitudes like that the law’s the law.

It’s a good debate for how the law should be changed. Its not all about being admitted to medical school. There is a larger debate here at hand. It’s our obligation as physicians to oppose the status quo when it is unethical or wrong. This is a good start for you on a personal level to realize the issues with the system and I support you 100%. Although you shouldn’t speed (because I’m sure gonnif and all those people have never committed such a sin ) it’s imperative that you are able to recognize how the law systemically oppresses people. There are issues with our system, way beyond the Adcoms process, and experiencing this unjustice will be the fuel that inspires you to incite change in the healthcare system

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Wow, I've been caught driving 19 over the speed limit before. I'm glad I'm not in one of those states then. Otherwise I wouldn't have been in medical school right now.

 

[de Ribas]

Wow, I've been caught driving 19 over the speed limit before. I'm glad I'm not in one of those states then. Otherwise I wouldn't have been in medical school right now.

In MO and MN, speeding ticket is misdemeanor offense. I have contacted several schools specifically about that and they said they look differently if it was speeding ticket or other types of crime even in the same misdemeanor category.

They wont show up on background check for schools for some reason.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

In MO and MN, speeding ticket is misdemeanor offense. I have contacted several schools specifically about that and they said they look differently if it was speeding ticket or other types of crime even in the same misdemeanor category.

They wont show up on background check for schools for some reason.

Makes sense.

 

[deleted480308]

It’s a major failure of justice. I’m saddened to see there are those here who agree that strapping someone with a permanent criminal record and a class A misdemeanor (which carries up to a year in jail) is fair for driving 11 mph over the speed limit (or 16% more than the speed limit in a 70 zone). They are certainly entitled to their opinion and the citizens of Virginia are certainly free to elect politicians that don’t enact such draconian laws to generate revenue under the guise of public safety based on zero scientific evidence. I seriously hate that state.

I’m cool with it

Driving over the speed limit by 11 mph should not be a misdemeanor. Anyone who thinks otherwise lacks the crucial assets of a doctor—empathy and the ability to reason outside the box

See above

To be clear, driving 11 over in a 70 is not only a misdemeanor, it’s a class 1 misdemeanor. Other class 1 misdemeanors in Virginia include domestic abuse, DUI, and assault and battery.

Clearly it’s the same level of crime, and I’m glad we have those to remind us with morally superior platitudes like that the law’s the law.

those should be felonies

 

[rangerdad]

In the state of Virginia you can and will be charged with and convicted of a class A misdemeanor (one step below a felony) for driving 81 mph in a 70 mph zone.

I’m not joking or exaggerating.

Another common tactic is on rural roads for small town cops to post up where the speed limit suddenly drops from 55 to 35 and bust people. Over 20 is automatically a class A misdemeanor in VA as well. This is all of course for the purposes of generating revenue and funding fleets of supercharged police cruisers and SWAT toys for podunk police departments.

There are myriad people out there walking around thinking they just got an expensive speeding ticket when in fact they have a serious criminal record.

The recent news doesn’t surprise me. Completely bass akwards state.

This is exactly what happened to me almost 20 years ago, and I just learned that VA has it as a misdemeanor in my record. I have gone through so many background checks and top secret clearances and always wrote NO. Now that I know I will be honest in my AMCAS app. Quick to the point and what I learned.

 

[RNtoMD87]

A misdemeanor is always something to raise an eyebrow at....

Eh probably depends on the state. Supposedly some moving violations are misdemeanors in some states.


I thought you were more libertarian than that. A felony for a speeding charge... hmm.

I can understand depending on the circumstances if it places people at risk, but there are many situations where speeding, especially when not excessive places no one at risk. Basically the same level of crime as pulling up to a redlight at 1 am, waiting like 2 minutes on it to change, and there isn't a soul in sight, and being able to see in all directions for a mile around, pulling through. Or waiting through several light changes and never getting the green light, so you pull on through.

I've done that. Moving violations shouldn't be misdemeanors unless someone else is affected, or placed at risk in the very least.

 

[deleted480308]

Eh probably depends on the state. Supposedly some moving violations are misdemeanors in some states.


I thought you were more libertarian than that. A felony for a speeding charge... hmm.

I can understand depending on the circumstances if it places people at risk, but there are many situations where speeding, especially when not excessive places no one at risk. Basically the same level of crime as pulling up to a redlight at 1 am, waiting like 2 minutes on it to change, and there isn't a soul in sight, and being able to see in all directions for a mile around, pulling through. Or waiting through several light changes and never getting the green light, so you pull on through.

I've done that. Moving violations shouldn't be misdemeanors unless someone else is affected, or placed at risk in the very least.

felony for abuse/battery and DUI

 

[Ad2b]

It’s a major failure of justice. I’m saddened to see there are those here who agree that strapping someone with a permanent criminal record and a class A misdemeanor (which carries up to a year in jail) is fair for driving 11 mph over the speed limit

In FL, you'd be passed by so many cars flying at 90 mph. In FL, the FLHP, Sheriff's offices won't even blink an eye at 11 mph over, at 15 you might get stopped

The 15 mph over depends almost 100% on where you get stopped (on the I's and rural or I's and metro; metro is different)

And in FL, it's a petty crime and easily discharged with an attorney... VA is a whole other ball o wax, as is MN (where I'm from; there 5 mph over you're good, but at 6? ticketed - not that I know anything about that or anything)

 

[LebronManning]

felony for abuse/battery and DUI

You don't seem to understand that there are levels for these crimes. Getting into a heated argument with your wife and then lightly pushing her out of your way on the way out is battery. Someone should have a felony conviction and serve prison time for that? Not all DUIs are blacked out people driving a F150 and killing a family of 4. The majority are a drink over the limit and got caught in a minor traffic violation - not right but a misdemeanor conviction and all the other punishment is appropriate.

 

[deleted480308]

You don't seem to understand that there are levels for these crimes. Getting into a heated argument with your wife and then lightly pushing her out of your way on the way out is battery. Someone should have a felony conviction and serve prison time for that? Not all DUIs are blacked out people driving a F150 and killing a family of 4. The majority are a drink over the limit and got caught in a minor traffic violation - not right but a misdemeanor conviction and all the other punishment is appropriate.

you don't need to push your wife if she didn't touch you and you don't need to drive drunk

 

[LebronManning]

you don't need to push your wife if she didn't touch you and you don't need to drive drunk

I'll take your completely dodging the argument as you accepting those things shouldn't be felonies.

You shouldn't litter either. You wanna make that a felony too?

 

[ThrowawayShmoaway]

Did you really just compare littering to domestic violence and DUIs? C’mon man.