Accepted but Declining: Good or Bad? Help!

[docycle]

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This thread is cray cray.

 

[mehc012]

From my observation, most people here are irate that OP continues to flaunt his acceptances like anyone can beat the system/game and comes off as a bit patronizing and sanctimonious too *dat humble brag*. Furthermore to reiterate another poster, I know that one should be careful about heeding advice from strangers on the web, but why ask for help if OP was going to take our advice with a grain of salt if his mind was fixed from the start?

I'm not spiteful of OP and wish him the best for his health/fulfillment and his patients' sake, but at most he only had to update us and acknowledge that he was a statistical outlier.

I don't care about him discussing his acceptances - those are pertinent to the discussion insomuch as they make it obvious that withdrawing from an acceptance is not an absolute barrier to future acceptances.

It's more that OP, despite mentioning in side notes here and there that withdrawing from an acceptance is probably a poor idea, makes it sound as if their outcome was practically inevitable because of all the extreme enlightenment they got from their MBA. To me, this has some issues:
1) A good outcome does not mean that the original decision wasn't a poor one (meaning the risk outweighed the benefits)
2) OP seems to have benefited more from their MBA than most premeds would, since they *suddenly realized* all sorts of important things that most people learn through shadowing, researching the healthcare system, or even participating in it...thus the risk/benefit ratio is even less favorable for those reading this thread than it would have been for OP
3) Honestly, OP's prose about what they learned comes across as condescending and holier-than-thou, which is impressive considering the rather mundane nature of their revelations.

As I said, if we were to discuss, say, the differences in declining an acceptance within the TX system vs. AMCAS at large, or whether to take a gap year if you realize you aren't truly ready for med school (which, in my mind, fits OP's story and prose better than 'an MBA is worth it', especially given the other opportunities they had to take the MBA), etc...that'd be entirely different. As it stands, though, this thread is just irritating because we're being condescended to by someone who made a poor decision and happened to stumble into some basic truths which they suddenly think themselves precocious for recognizing.

 

[Lucca]

Really curious how this would have played out OOS vs. TX.

 

[w0rldw3y3d]

Really curious how this would have played out OOS vs. TX.

Bad, really bad.

 

[Lucca]

Bad, really bad.

if true, it would mean TX is seriously, seriously less competitive; not just slightly.

 

[w0rldw3y3d]

if true, it would mean TX is seriously, seriously less competitive; not just slightly.

Not necessarily. Most OOS schools just don't give Texas residents interviews because we have so many options and really don't have the incentive to leave the state.

 

[Lucca]

Not necessarily. Most OOS schools just don't give Texas residents interviews because we have so many options and really don't have the incentive to leave the state.

Oh I meant like a non-TX applicant applying to non-TX schools

 

[w0rldw3y3d]

Oh I meant like a non-TX applicant applying to non-TX schools

Ohhhh. My bad, misunderstanding.

 

[texan2414]

Ohhhh. My bad, misunderstanding.

LOLZ another shtstorm was going to start if people had indeed gone on with the misunderstanding that "TX is less competitive than OOS schools".

 

[Lucca]

LOLZ another shtstorm was going to start if people had indeed gone on with the misunderstanding that "TX is less competitive than OOS schools".

I do feel like it is less competitive though. At least for all of my friends who have already applied the formula is basically "get numbers, check boxes, apply early, obtain acceptance". Some people don't even do all of those correctly. Hell, one of my friends applied to medical school in early October (which is the SDN equivalent of starting an F1 race on foot) with "meh" stats and still received an acceptance to a pretty good school by the end of it. At least at my school no reasonably good student is that concerned about getting into a medical school, rather they are concerned about getting into Baylor / Dell (this year) / SW / OOS.

 

[MediPhil]

I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. -Maya Angelou

Irritated you, I have.

This is one hell of a troll job, 10/10.

:troll:

Perhaps you're all right. I have an inflated ego glorifying the realizations that so many others find trivial. It wasn't my MBA, but time, that brought me to these mediocre, and yet actionable conclusions. So the MBA is really just a scape goat for the not-so-impressive insights I only recently developed. And I am sure my acceptance was both a fluke and the product of so many other factors beyond my control (TX acceptance rates, perhaps).

I have great stats, lofty language and a passion for healthcare. But I declined an offer, whatever the reason may be. My n=1 study proves it is possible, but not necessarily likely to receive and even thrive on offers despite declining a prior offer - something the community already knew. If you have my odd disposition of spinning the mediocre as downright enlightenment, then you may well stand a chance. But dear God, why bother?

Take your offer, despite any feelings of hesitation. Because, hey! Healthcare is a great field. You help people, you have job security, the career is in itself mentally stimulating and you'll figure things out along the way. Oh, and because no one out there can possibly fathom why you would decline an offer, reapply and succeed. It may irritate them. So don't be an exception to the rule. We all know that healthcare and its students are just fine they way they are right now, so stay vanilla and accept your Godly offer so as not to be smitten.

 

[Lucca]

I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. -Maya Angelou

Irritated you, I have.


:troll:

Perhaps you're all right. I have an inflated ego glorifying the realizations that so many others find trivial. It wasn't my MBA, but time, that brought me to these mediocre, and yet actionable conclusions. So the MBA is really just a scape goat for the not-so-impressive insights I only recently developed. And I am sure my acceptance was both a fluke and the product of so many other factors beyond my control (TX acceptance rates, perhaps).

I have great stats, lofty language and a passion for healthcare. But I declined an offer, whatever the reason may be. My n=1 study proves it is possible, but not necessarily likely to receive and even thrive on offers despite declining a prior offer - something the community already knew. If you have my odd disposition of spinning the mediocre as downright enlightenment, then you may well stand a chance. But dear God, why bother?

Take your offer, despite any feelings of hesitation. Because, hey! Healthcare is a great field. You help people, you have job security, the career is in itself mentally stimulating and you'll figure things out along the way. Oh, and because no one out there can possibly fathom why you would decline an offer, reapply and succeed. It may irritate them. So don't be an exception to the rule. We all know that healthcare and its students are just fine they way they are right now, so stay vanilla and accept your Godly offer so as not to be smitten.

I don't really have a problem with your posts like the other posters do and I'm glad this risk worked out for you but what this post assumes is that medical training is a black box. If your premise is to be believed: All of your formative experiences and reflections are done before hand, you get in, nothing changes you significantly and then throughout the rest of your training and career you sustain the same assumptions, prejudices, goals, ideations about medicine, etc, etc. That is not just true. It might be appealing to an adcom to listen to an applicant who hits the nail on the head on some topics before they are even admitted to the profession but it is disingenuous to imply that those missing that perspective are somehow unsuitable for the profession or lesser.

In fact, I'll take the capable idealist over the early-cynic any day. Cynicism seems to be very "cool" in medicine and people compete to see who is more seasoned, battle-hardened and knowledgeable about the shortcomings of the system. You reflected this in an earlier post where you mentioned that pre-meds should be comfortable spending more of their time with paperwork than patients, or something to that effect. Simply being aware of these issues and then suggesting an attitude towards them is very presumptuous. It's like looking at a sentence and identifying what is wrong with it but being unable to comprehend how it could be better. The 'ideal idealist' understands the shortcomings of a system, acknowledges them, works flexibly within them but is not complacent as you suggest. Developing a moral imagination - the ability to imagine a better state of affairs - is a more important part of intellectual development than simply stating facts about a single state from a single perspective. The early-cynic on the other hand is a happy worker bee. Capable, knowledgeable, almost as powerless as the idealist, in most circumstances, to affect any real change in their situation given the ponderous size of what we refer to as the 'healthcare system'. However, this is not leadership. Leadership requires imagination and courage, which, in turn, requires a moral compass. That is what pre-medical students should develop. Demonstrating aptitude in that area will ensure that as they learn the ins-and-outs of the healthcare system during their medical training (which is not a static transitionary state as your post suggests) and shatter some of their previously held assumptions and ideals they are left with a vision and with ideas of how to do it better -- how to tow the line in the right direction rather than the one provided by the nearest employment model. The alternative is complacency; complacency made worse by the fact that one has the authority and experience to say they know, and rightfully, more than anyone else on the matter. That is the real danger of receiving highly specialized professional training without an adequate foundation, not mere ignorance about paperwork or bureaucracy or slogans.

 

[Glandzburg]

I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. -Maya Angelou

Irritated you, I have.


:troll:

Perhaps you're all right. I have an inflated ego glorifying the realizations that so many others find trivial. It wasn't my MBA, but time, that brought me to these mediocre, and yet actionable conclusions. So the MBA is really just a scape goat for the not-so-impressive insights I only recently developed. And I am sure my acceptance was both a fluke and the product of so many other factors beyond my control (TX acceptance rates, perhaps).

I have great stats, lofty language and a passion for healthcare. But I declined an offer, whatever the reason may be. My n=1 study proves it is possible, but not necessarily likely to receive and even thrive on offers despite declining a prior offer - something the community already knew. If you have my odd disposition of spinning the mediocre as downright enlightenment, then you may well stand a chance. But dear God, why bother?

Take your offer, despite any feelings of hesitation. Because, hey! Healthcare is a great field. You help people, you have job security, the career is in itself mentally stimulating and you'll figure things out along the way. Oh, and because no one out there can possibly fathom why you would decline an offer, reapply and succeed. It may irritate them. So don't be an exception to the rule. We all know that healthcare and its students are just fine they way they are right now, so stay vanilla and accept your Godly offer so as not to be smitten.

Wow, I thought you were finally over yourself until I got to that last paragraph. Just remember that there is a fine line between confidence and arrogance, and the arrogant are often humbled very quickly in the training process. So better to stop looking down your nose at your peers now than later.

 

[DokterMom]

if true, it would mean TX is seriously, seriously less competitive; not just slightly.

I do feel like it is less competitive though. At least for all of my friends who have already applied the formula is basically "get numbers, check boxes, apply early, obtain acceptance". Some people don't even do all of those correctly. Hell, one of my friends applied to medical school in early October (which is the SDN equivalent of starting an F1 race on foot) with "meh" stats and still received an acceptance to a pretty good school by the end of it. At least at my school no reasonably good student is that concerned about getting into a medical school, rather they are concerned about getting into Baylor / Dell (this year) / SW / OOS.

The overall med school acceptance for Texans is very close to the national acceptance rate for all applicants -- so it's really not less competitive. Where Texans DO have the advantage though is in knowing where to apply -- all TX schools -- with the possible exceptions of NOT Baylor for low-stat applicants and NOT North TX for high-stat applicants (Separate application - PITA for low-yield...) Otherwise - apply to all, knowing you have a good mix of reach, target and safety schools.

Knowing where to apply gives TX applicants an advantage over students who fail to do their research and apply stupidly. And perhaps also the super-strong IS preference means schools won't be so burned out from reading 10,000 applications (Hello Georgetown, Rosy, Drexel...) to the extent that a 'good but ordinary' application isn't automatically tossed. AdComs know that virtually every TX applicant will apply to all the TX schools, so it's like a 'sorting hat', with the strongest applicants getting more attention from the highest-ranked schools and the more moderate applicants getting more attention from the lower-ranked schools.

But again -- due to the large number of IS applicants, the overall med school acceptance rate for Texans is very close to the national acceptance rate for all applicants, and the overall stats of TX accepted med students are very close to the national averages for all accepted applicants.

 

[Lucca]

The overall med school acceptance for Texans is very close to the national acceptance rate for all applicants -- so it's really not less competitive. Where Texans DO have the advantage though is in knowing where to apply -- all TX schools -- with the possible exceptions of NOT Baylor for low-stat applicants and NOT North TX for high-stat applicants (Separate application - PITA for low-yield...) Otherwise - apply to all, knowing you have a good mix of reach, target and safety schools.

Knowing where to apply gives TX applicants an advantage over students who fail to do their research and apply stupidly. And perhaps also the super-strong IS preference means schools won't be so burned out from reading 10,000 applications (Hello Georgetown, Rosy, Drexel...) to the extent that a 'good but ordinary' application isn't automatically tossed. AdComs know that virtually every TX applicant will apply to all the TX schools, so it's like a 'sorting hat', with the strongest applicants getting more attention from the highest-ranked schools and the more moderate applicants getting more attention from the lower-ranked schools.

But again -- due to the large number of IS applicants, the overall med school acceptance rate for Texans is very close to the national acceptance rate for all applicants, and the overall stats of TX accepted med students are very close to the national averages for all accepted applicants.

With the notable exception that Texans are on average two years younger than non-Texan applicants/matriculants! This could be for a variety of reasons but I think the relatively lax competition is one. People are "acceptable" earlier.

 

[medic86]

Hm.

I didn't think it was possible.

 

[jl lin]

View attachment 198856

Hm.

I didn't think it was possible.

So medi86, not following the negatively influential crowd can be a good thing.

All I was saying is that the person thought out his opportunities--knowing what his ultimate aspirations are and having what would seem to me to be a stellar application. It's his life. He made his choice, and if I read correctly, he was offered a FREE-RIDE for the MBA. Last I checked, MBAs are not cheap.

If the person didn't have any aspirations for HC administration, then I could see more of the consternation. But since he did, and even though, who knows, he may change that before he is done MS, getting a free-ride and doing well well in an MBA doesn't sound like a horrible thing to do.

So many seem to project their own junk on to others--their own frustrations re: the process, and they then have the incredible audacity to call someone "annoying" when someone else gives a bit of a different, or more open perspective--based on the particular aspirations of a particular student.

You are behaving so much like the negative sentiment that comes across on SDN and adds to giving it a bad reputation. Yes. That is the kind of thing that makes SDN truly annoying at times; i.e.,"See it all our way, regardless of the particulars of a situation, of take the highway." Or worse yet, be the recipient of some other form of name-calling. Brilliant!

That, medic, is truly closed-thinking and most annoying.

But good job on the fly-by insult! That is surely something to be proud of! 🙄

 

[Psai]

So medi86, not following the negatively influential crowd can be a good thing.

All I was saying is that the person thought out his opportunities--knowing what his ultimate aspirations are and having what would seem to me to be a stellar application. It's his life. He made his choice, and if I read correctly, he was offered a FREE-RIDE for the MBA. Last I checked, MBAs are not cheap.

If the person didn't have any aspirations for HC administration, then I could see more of the consternation. But since he did, and even though, who knows, he may change that before he is done MS, getting a free-ride and doing well well in an MBA doesn't sound like a horrible thing to do.

So many seem to project their own junk on to others--their own frustrations re: the process, and they then have the incredible audacity to call someone "annoying" when someone else gives a bit of a different, or more open perspective--based on the particular aspirations of a particular student.

You are behaving so much like the negative sentiment that comes across on SDN and adds to giving it a bad reputation. Yes. That is the kind of thing that makes SDN truly annoying at times; i.e.,"See it all our way, regardless of the particulars of a situation, of take the highway." Or worse yet, be the recipient of some other form of name-calling. Brilliant!

That, medic, is truly closed-thinking and most annoying.

But good job on the fly-by insult! That is surely something to be proud of! 🙄

😕

 

[Efflorescence]

Call me crazy, but knowing that OP is most likely going to UT Southwestern makes me want to go there a little less.

 

[jl lin]

😕

 

[w0rldw3y3d]

So medi86, not following the negatively influential crowd can be a good thing.

All I was saying is that the person thought out his opportunities--knowing what his ultimate aspirations are and having what would seem to me to be a stellar application. It's his life. He made his choice, and if I read correctly, he was offered a FREE-RIDE for the MBA. Last I checked, MBAs are not cheap.

If the person didn't have any aspirations for HC administration, then I could see more of the consternation. But since he did, and even though, who knows, he may change that before he is done MS, getting a free-ride and doing well well in an MBA doesn't sound like a horrible thing to do.

So many seem to project their own junk on to others--their own frustrations re: the process, and they then have the incredible audacity to call someone "annoying" when someone else gives a bit of a different, or more open perspective--based on the particular aspirations of a particular student.

You are behaving so much like the negative sentiment that comes across on SDN and adds to giving it a bad reputation. Yes. That is the kind of thing that makes SDN truly annoying at times; i.e.,"See it all our way, regardless of the particulars of a situation, of take the highway." Or worse yet, be the recipient of some other form of name-calling. Brilliant!

That, medic, is truly closed-thinking and most annoying.

But good job on the fly-by insult! That is surely something to be proud of! 🙄

No, you misunderstood. He wasn't saying you two were annoying because you have some wondrous different life perspective that he cannot seem to comprehend because of his own flaws. He was saying you were annoying because you have your head up your a** and think you are special little flowers. Does that about sum it up, @medic86?

 

[docycle]

I don't really have a problem with your posts like the other posters do and I'm glad this risk worked out for you but what this post assumes is that medical training is a black box. If your premise is to be believed: All of your formative experiences and reflections are done before hand, you get in, nothing changes you significantly and then throughout the rest of your training and career you sustain the same assumptions, prejudices, goals, ideations about medicine, etc, etc. That is not just true. It might be appealing to an adcom to listen to an applicant who hits the nail on the head on some topics before they are even admitted to the profession but it is disingenuous to imply that those missing that perspective are somehow unsuitable for the profession or lesser.

In fact, I'll take the capable idealist over the early-cynic any day. Cynicism seems to be very "cool" in medicine and people compete to see who is more seasoned, battle-hardened and knowledgeable about the shortcomings of the system. You reflected this in an earlier post where you mentioned that pre-meds should be comfortable spending more of their time with paperwork than patients, or something to that effect. Simply being aware of these issues and then suggesting an attitude towards them is very presumptuous. It's like looking at a sentence and identifying what is wrong with it but being unable to comprehend how it could be better. The 'ideal idealist' understands the shortcomings of a system, acknowledges them, works flexibly within them but is not complacent as you suggest. Developing a moral imagination - the ability to imagine a better state of affairs - is a more important part of intellectual development than simply stating facts about a single state from a single perspective. The early-cynic on the other hand is a happy worker bee. Capable, knowledgeable, almost as powerless as the idealist, in most circumstances, to affect any real change in their situation given the ponderous size of what we refer to as the 'healthcare system'. However, this is not leadership. Leadership requires imagination and courage, which, in turn, requires a moral compass. That is what pre-medical students should develop. Demonstrating aptitude in that area will ensure that as they learn the ins-and-outs of the healthcare system during their medical training (which is not a static transitionary state as your post suggests) and shatter some of their previously held assumptions and ideals they are left with a vision and with ideas of how to do it better -- how to tow the line in the right direction rather than the one provided by the nearest employment model. The alternative is complacency; complacency made worse by the fact that one has the authority and experience to say they know, and rightfully, more than anyone else on the matter. That is the real danger of receiving highly specialized professional training without an adequate foundation, not mere ignorance about paperwork or bureaucracy or slogans.

TL;DR optimism > cynicism because with optimism you don't have a justification for being a lazy, useless bastard.

You're welcome.

 

[jl lin]

No, you misunderstood. He wasn't saying you two were annoying because you have some wondrous different life perspective that he cannot seem to comprehend because of his own flaws. He was saying you were annoying because you have your head up your a** and think you are special little flowers. Does that about sum it up, @medic86?

Gotcha. As per usual on SDN, differing perspective = it means it is OK to comment/behave like a total .
Glad to know the same noble and stable thought and behavior patterns continue w/ little to pretty much no change. It makes things so respectable here. It gives the entire universe a sense of great stability. 🙄

OP. You did what you did. It worked out for you. You got your free ride for MBA, and now you have acceptances to MSs. Somewhere you were doing something right. What works for one person may definitely not work for another, but w/o knowing all the comparative details--as we definitely don't really get on SDN, each application/person has to be looked at on a case by case basis.

Like hordes of others in medicine and healthcare that either no longer attend SDN or have never had a desire to do so, go on with your life, and the best to you for MS.

Ignore the followers, b/c just like a lot of followers they end up commenting like the ^ .

 

[SPO1985]

dont decline the MD acceptance

 

[ZPakEffect]

I still find it REALLY HARD to believe that the OP was only accepted off of the wait-list at a single school during the previous cycle, and yet this cycle he has received 3 pre-match acceptances, which are usually only given to the most desirable applicants. Either he retook the MCAT and dramatically improved, or he is a lying troll. No MBA will have that kind of effect.

 

[dm005]

More drama here than Gone With The Wind!

 

[Glandzburg]

I still find it REALLY HARD to believe that the OP was only accepted off of the wait-list at a single school during the previous cycle, and yet this cycle he has received 3 pre-match acceptances, which are usually only given to the most desirable applicants. Either he retook the MCAT and dramatically improved, or he is a lying troll. No MBA will have that kind of effect.

I agree that the MBA is most certainly not the only factor at play here. There must have been notable changes in other pieces of OP's application that are confounding.

 

[22031 Alum]

What works for one person may definitely not work for another, but w/o knowing all the comparative details--as we definitely don't really get on SDN, each application/person has to be looked at on a case by case basis.

Maybe you don't mean this like it comes across, but this "it's okay if it turns out okay" attitude isn't something you're going to come across a lot when in a large group of people involved in medicine. Bad ideas are bad ideas. Period. Sometimes people luck out and things turn out fine but that doesn't mean it's appropriate to be supportive of the bad idea. Especially when the person who has a good outcome despite the bad idea has zero self-awareness and thinks "It must be because I'm so awesome!" rather than "I'm so lucky!"

 

[w0rldw3y3d]

Maybe you don't mean this like it comes across, but this "it's okay if it turns out okay" attitude isn't something you're going to come across a lot when in a large group of people involved in medicine. Bad ideas are bad ideas. Period. Sometimes people luck out and things turn out fine but that doesn't mean it's appropriate to be supportive of the bad idea. Especially when the person who has a good outcome despite the bad idea has zero self-awareness and thinks "It must be because I'm so awesome!" rather than "I'm so lucky!"

This, right here. Nuff said.

 

[jl lin]

Maybe you don't mean this like it comes across, but this "it's okay if it turns out okay" attitude isn't something you're going to come across a lot when in a large group of people involved in medicine. Bad ideas are bad ideas. Period. Sometimes people luck out and things turn out fine but that doesn't mean it's appropriate to be supportive of the bad idea. Especially when the person who has a good outcome despite the bad idea has zero self-awareness and thinks "It must be because I'm so awesome!" rather than "I'm so lucky!"

Where did I write"It's OK if it turns out OK?" That is nothing at all close to what I stated.

We don't know all the particulars. The fellow got a free ride. He initially was selected off a waitlist. I find it incredible that people actually believe it's all about the mighty power of the med school adcom. Really, there are numerous factors, and you certainly must know this. Of course this would not necessarily work out for everyone or even most, which is why I stated things previously as I did.

It's OK for people to use their own set of values when it comes to their individual lives. Seriously. What is with this Gulag-like mentality with medical schools? They are still just schools.

I'm becoming increasingly fearful that people are losing the understanding of what it means to live and function in at least a somewhat free society.

People have to make their own choices, based on the specifics of their own lives. And indeed, at such massive expense as medical school is, the attitude that it's a nearly impossible privilege to enter to the point of embracing the rare opportunity for indentured servitude, rather than a commitment of lifelong appreciation and dedication, is completely astonishing to me.

What if the person didn't get in upon the next application? So what? It wouldn't necessarily mean he would not get accepted at another time; nor would it mean that he could not effectively use his MBA in healthcare at the level of social change. He made, what was for him, a well-thought out choice. Leave him to it.

No, no. No one should think that this is the standard approach to get into medical school. But it is also entry into a professional role that becomes hopefully more than a job, but is still, nonetheless, a job. When I go on job interviews. I am neither a nervous nilly nor an arrogant azz. I see the experience as a two-way street. It should be no different with applying to any scholastic program. The universe will not crumble if I don't genuflect in the presence of a particular graduate school system nor if I don't get an offer. For heaven's sake.

 

[22031 Alum]

Where did I write "It's OK if it turns out OK?"

That was how I interpreted what you said in (many, many, many, many) more words. Especially the part where you interpreted people saying "This is a bad idea" as a requirement to "See it our way" (and you did use that phrase, since you're being so obtuse and concrete that you'll only acknowledge an exact quote of what you said).

I find it incredible that people actually believe it's all about the mighty power of the med school adcom.

When the topic at hand is medical school admission, where in the world do you expect the bulk of the power to be? Honest question.

People have to make their own choices, based on the specifics of their own lives.

This is true. Everyone is welcome to listen to advice, or not. If a single case of going against advice happens to works out, does that mean the advice should be disregarded- with a bad attitude, no less- from there on out?? Because that's what OP advocated with that last childish post.

It boggles my mind how people can come on a physicians' forum to seek advice of people who've gone the way they hope to go, and then get huffy when that advice isn't exactly what they agree with or want to hear. Happens all the time here, which is why people like me with actual experience get sick of it. Leaving only people with no actual experience who make statements like:

What if the person didn't get in upon the next application? So what? It wouldn't necessarily mean he would not get accepted at another time

Which in the setting of med school admission is so overwhelmingly wrong (we're talking 999 times out of 1000 if not more). If we're going to let anybody who wants to just say things like that where people who come for advice can read it, this place might as well be shut down.

 

[jl lin]

That was how I interpreted what you said in (many, many, many, many) more words. Especially the part where you interpreted people saying "This is a bad idea" as a requirement to "See it our way" (and you did use that phrase, since you're being so obtuse and concrete that you'll only acknowledge an exact quote of what you said).



When the topic at hand is medical school admission, where in the world do you expect the bulk of the power to be? Honest question.



This is true. Everyone is welcome to listen to advice, or not. If a single case of going against advice happens to works out, does that mean the advice should be disregarded- with a bad attitude, no less- from there on out?? Because that's what OP advocated with that last childish post.

It boggles my mind how people can come on a physicians' forum to seek advice of people who've gone the way they hope to go, and then get huffy when that advice isn't exactly what they agree with or want to hear. Happens all the time here, which is why people like me with actual experience get sick of it. Leaving only people with no actual experience who make statements like:



Which in the setting of med school admission is so overwhelmingly wrong (we're talking 999 times out of 1000 if not more). If we're going to let anybody who wants to just say things like that where people who come for advice can read it, this place might as well be shut down.

In no way did I say you nor anyone else is entirely wrong. The person made his own choice. Again, as I have already stated, obviously it does not mean that for most people this is the wisest way to go if they want to attend medical school.
Can you see that he got a free ride into the MBA program and it fit in with his ultimate plans? Most are not seeking to do t his. Did he take a risk? No doubt. But it was HIS risk to take.

For the love of God, look at how many people do get into medical school and sorely, yes sorely regret that they put themselves on that path. It's really NOT a minuscule amount IMHO. Anecdotally, my God, it's even harder to say that 1/2 or more are not regretful of the path. Every week or so it seems that there is one or more persons that come on here saying, "What should I do? Should I stay, or should I go?"

We don't even know if this person (OP) is going stick with the MS into and through a GME program.

Maybe he thought the MBA program gave him more time to see if it's the right choice for him, in spite of what he said his plans are. We all know tons of people that have changed what their specialty would be or was several times. I know at least a handful of residents, not even medical students, that have done this. One person I know changed their speciality THREE times--residency scrambling to three separate programs before he settled in the final one.

So, I will not comment on if he is an arrogant a$$ for not listening. But I do know the fellow was accepted off a waitlist, YET he was also OFFERED a free ride through an MBA program. So look at it this way. He got some extra education/grad degree basically for nothing while he was really firming up whether in fact MS was the right choice for him.

Sure, maybe he didn't say that at the outset or anywhere after; but come on. In reality, whether he would admit it or not, I am thinking he wasn't quite sure at that moment and used the free ride to try and firm up his aspirations. I am gong to give him that and be happy for the other person that got his seat. What's wrong with that? I don't know all the particulars such that I can be so judgmental about a person and his choices.

I really detest a bullying mentality when someone doesn't agree with others. Many here just chime in with the adcoms b/c they want to be on their good side. And so be it. Fine, except, are they really looking at the thing from the individual's perspective?

And why does "Being so right"about such things have to be so damn important? Someone else got the OP's seat, and that person is probably quite grateful. OP got in somewhere else later on. He will see if he even made the right choice for medicine. So many people see things quite differently when in MS and residency, and they regret it, but then they feel stuck--as in a bad marriage with kids and other obligations that won't let them easily get out.

In fact, I think everyone should look at medicine as they ideally should look at medicine. You may get hitched, but you may not so easily get unhitched--at least not without some serious personal, financial, and other collateral damage.

Again, I believe if the person REALLY was 1000% sure about medicine, he probably would have taken the seat when offered--no matter what he says. He took the free ride to give himself some time to think on whether he wants to go the long road.

NO! IDK that this as a fact, but truly, I suspect it. No one that feels mostly sure about medicine turns down a MS acceptance unless they have some physical illness or serious family emergency, or something of that nature. He didn't have any of those things, which tells me, no matter what he says, he was on the fence, and really. That's OK. Yes, if true, he should probably admit it, but you know how people can roll.

Now, he was so all-fired sure of his application, he rolled the damned dice and made out! Why hate on the dude for it? He took a HUGE risk. Maybe he really was quite confident re: his whole application.

Now, are people hating on those folks that play the lottery and win???? I don't hate or despise others for their good fortune. Personally, I wouldn't take hundreds or thousands of dollars to buy PowerBall Tickets, b/c the odds are ridiculous, and given that they are, there are better things I can do with that money. He played his odds, and for now at least, it seems he made out. What is the point of bullying up on the guy?

 

[jl lin]

My perception of medicine has changed quite significantly over the last year - especially of and regarding applicants. Students interviewing right now seem oblivious to the struggles that US Healthcare faces. They are gung-ho, and why not?! They're on a path to do great things for patients who need care. But the tectonic plates in medicine are shifting. Not just one or two, but handfuls of physicians have complained to me that, "Healthcare is dead." They claim that if they could go back and do it all again, they would choose a different path. There are, of course, physicians who disagree (particularly in academia where the developing threats are felt less harshly).

My novice advice to pre-medical students would be to think deeply about your motives. Students should be willing to spend more time with paperwork than patients. They should be content with low autonomy and the encroachment of medical technologies that may begin to shrink the physician's role or even displace them entirely over the next decade. Students should be wary of the possibility that the current physician salaries are quite likely to change, and most likely on a downward trend. And most importantly, students need to be flexible in light of the fact that healthcare is more dynamic now than in quite some time.

These are the concerns of many current physicians. Our generation of students is likely to possess the burden of change in unexpected ways. So, do not go gentle into that good night. Know well the task you face by enrolling in a field with impeccable opportunity, but which possesses equally significant uncertainty. SDN expects you to relentlessly jump right in to the mix, akin to a clever car salesman. But I feel that admissions committees, at large, can appreciate applicants in this decade who plan to do things unconventionally. I'm doing things unconventionally and there are others who are attempting to do so as well. Even medical schools like Harvard and UT Dell are shifting (or developing) their curricula to address the need for change. I was lucky enough (because it was certainly a gamble) that declining an offer allowed me to gain new, insightful experiences that inform my future career as a healthcare provider. And I have faith that other students who want to take time to think deeply about their motives, and who come out the other side wanting to prove that healthcare is not dead and can be revolutionized for the best interest of patients and physicians, will face a highly rewarding and effectual career as a physician (whether at the bedside or in admin). I don't think many admissions committees could deny the heart of these applicants.

So to hopefully complete my response on this topic, first, how is anything that is bold totally untrue?

1.More time with paperwork than patients -- very true.
2. Encroachment on autonomy --very true.
3. Salaries are likely to go down -- very true. (We are seeing this already and have been, to some degree in nursing and other allied health fields.) If you do make out financially on the upper level, you will be phased out by a newbie model that can be paid less.
4. Yes, flexibility is key. You won't be able to be so picky and stubborn about what area you want to work.

^The above is not BS. It's reality. Now consider that (and there is even more than that) and consider the exceedingly high expense of the cost attending MS. This is a perfect storm of sorts.

Second, sure go ahead an relish in your flood of applicants now, but given the above and the exorbitant cost of attendance, not to mention loss of wages, time in life, and other factors, it's only a matter of time before applicant numbers falls. I don't know how long. But it's going to happen, b/c we are in such an economically unsustainable mode right now. So the costs : benefits will not tilt in favor of MS for as many--especially when they see that they will be hard pressed to get into areas they will want or think they want and then cannot.

Finally, when I read in-between the lines of the OP's last two posts, I think, as he admonishes others to think carefully, he took the MBA time to think also carefully about it for himself, which seems to back up what I said above.

 

[MediPhil]

In reality, whether he would admit it or not, I am thinking he wasn't quite sure at that moment and used the free ride to try and firm up his aspirations.

You are correct. There was certainly a part of me that questioned whether or not I felt ready to pursue healthcare in the way I've imagined my career proceeding. I was more than curious about administration. And less than certain that I would be qualified or even capable of making an impact without first ironing out my intentions and unearthing the problems with healthcare. Until that point, I had only relished in the positives of medicine - certainly a self-serving bias to persuade my interests toward accepting offers. I'm definitely gaining applicable administrative skills along the way through the MBA program, but it is only an accessory to my personal development.

I've learned so far that good MBA experiences may pose significant value to change in healthcare. It feels like it will help a lot in my humble opinion :troll:, but I'm not there yet so what do I know? More than anything, it has helped me solidify my desire to obtain an MD. In spite of my MBA, I still want to be a physician first and a business man second. But now I'm a little more prepared for the latter. Again, an MBA is merely one source of these experiences. You may be able to get them just as easily anywhere else but an MBA is what I chose because it was available, cheap and directly related to my administration aspirations.

Back to the point: I totally agree with @jl lin. Students need not rush into medicine if they are doubtful. Take time to think about the career you're facing - hopefully before you receive offers. I do not regret my decision - it worked out for me. Luck, confounding factors, stupidity, whatever you decide. The truth is that I was surprised by the response from medical schools. I thought my chances were quite poor going into this cycle - who wouldn't? And your chances, in general, after declining an offer, are probably lower (quite a bit lower). But in my (odd?) circumstance where so much was gained during my extra year, things worked out for me. I'm very excited to become a physician, help others and hopefully find a way to make a positive and lasting impression on the infrastructure of American healthcare. And I hope that anyone who was previously put off by my attitude can find it within them to look beyond my flaws. I confronted a dragon - some would say without warrant or proper preparation - and the damn thing slipped and fell on my sword. I thought I was a hero but perhaps I'm just absurdly lucky. The great unfathomable forces in the universe worked in my favor and I am eternally grateful.

 

[mehc012]

You are correct. There was certainly a part of me that questioned whether or not I felt ready to pursue healthcare in the way I've imagined my career proceeding. I was more than curious about administration. And less than certain that I would be qualified or even capable of making an impact without first ironing out my intentions and unearthing the problems with healthcare. Until that point, I had only relished in the positives of medicine - certainly a self-serving bias to persuade my interests toward accepting offers. I'm definitely gaining applicable administrative skills along the way through the MBA program, but it is only an accessory to my personal development.

I've learned so far that good MBA experiences may pose significant value to change in healthcare. It feels like it will help a lot in my humble opinion :troll:, but I'm not there yet so what do I know? More than anything, it has helped me solidify my desire to obtain an MD. In spite of my MBA, I still want to be a physician first and a business man second. But now I'm a little more prepared for the latter. Again, an MBA is merely one source of these experiences. You may be able to get them just as easily anywhere else but an MBA is what I chose because it was available, cheap and directly related to my administration aspirations.

Back to the point: I totally agree with @jl lin. Students need not rush into medicine if they are doubtful. Take time to think about the career you're facing - hopefully before you receive offers. I do not regret my decision - it worked out for me. Luck, confounding factors, stupidity, whatever you decide. The truth is that I was surprised by the response from medical schools. I thought my chances were quite poor going into this cycle - who wouldn't? And your chances, in general, after declining an offer, are probably lower (quite a bit lower). But in my (odd?) circumstance where so much was gained during my extra year, things worked out for me. I'm very excited to become a physician, help others and hopefully find a way to make a positive and lasting impression on the infrastructure of American healthcare. And I hope that anyone who was previously put off by my attitude can find it within them to look beyond my flaws. I confronted a dragon - some would say without warrant or proper preparation - and the damn thing slipped and fell on my sword. I thought I was a hero but perhaps I'm just absurdly lucky. The great unfathomable forces in the universe worked in my favor and I am eternally grateful.

The point was that you had other, far better, options for obtaining an MBA that would not have incurred such a risk. We're not questioning the value of an MBA, just your judgement in turning down an MD acceptance with good future chances of getting the MBA in favor of an MBA acceptance with uncertain/lower chances of getting an MD, especially if, as you say, you want to be a physician first and a business man second. Things worked out for you, yes, due to your odd circumstances, but that still doesn't mean it was a good decision. So between that and the fact that you have uttered the sentence "I totally agree with jl lin" (regardless of context), yeah, your judgement is what is raising eyebrows and/or hackles.

I still take issue with a few of your points - for example, I'm not sure what you mean when you say you want us to look past your flaws (what do you want us to see), and I'm utterly unconvinced that the MBA is the only, or even a good way to gain the perspective you have developed over this past year. However, at the end of the day all that really matters is that good information is available to future SDNers. That definitely includes the fact that declining an acceptance is not a death knell, and that an MBA can help develop a person's perspective on healthcare more than most would have thought...but it also includes the fact that declining an acceptance is a big risk that is usually not worthwhile if you know you want to be an MD, that there are less risky pathways to getting an MD and an MBA, and that while those lessons definitely should be learned, there are other, easier pathways to them with lower cost and lower risk.

 

[jl lin]

The point was that you had other, far better, options for obtaining an MBA that would not have incurred such a risk. We're not questioning the value of an MBA, just your judgement in turning down an MD acceptance with good future chances of getting the MBA in favor of an MBA acceptance with uncertain/lower chances of getting an MD, especially if, as you say, you want to be a physician first and a business man second. Things worked out for you, yes, due to your odd circumstances, but that still doesn't mean it was a good decision. So between that and the fact that you have uttered the sentence "I totally agree with jl lin" (regardless of context), yeah, your judgement is what is raising eyebrows and/or hackles.

I still take issue with a few of your points - for example, I'm not sure what you mean when you say you want us to look past your flaws (what do you want us to see), and I'm utterly unconvinced that the MBA is the only, or even a good way to gain the perspective you have developed over this past year. However, at the end of the day all that really matters is that good information is available to future SDNers. That definitely includes the fact that declining an acceptance is not a death knell, and that an MBA can help develop a person's perspective on healthcare more than most would have thought...but it also includes the fact that declining an acceptance is a big risk that is usually not worthwhile if you know you want to be an MD, that there are less risky pathways to getting an MD and an MBA, and that while those lessons definitely should be learned, there are other, easier pathways to them with lower cost and lower risk.

OK @mehc012. I get you are one of the "followers." I believe there is something more green fueling that ridiculous, baseless, "hate" or whatever it is. That's right. Don't roar against the online crowd. 😀 One should not even dare think for oneself and speak it on SDN--unless one gets special privilege from certain folks ahead of time.🙄

Yes. Now I remember. You were also one of the ones I wisely put on ignore. As they say, more times than not, trust your first instincts. So, it's back to being banished into the Phantom Zone for you.

BTW, defining 'poor judgment' simply by way of someone having the "temerity" to differ and sees something from a somewhat different perspective than you and a few minions online is some serious imbecility, as well as a few other things. More than likely this thread is all about the insanity that is that noxious, odious fog of pride and arrogance, which pervades a lot of medicine--that is, the need to say "I'm right, and you are wrong." I mean there can be some good things in that, but I have lived and worked to see how the bad part of that can do some serious damage to patients, as well as crush morale in a hospital/clinic. It also stifles ingenuity.

Good judgment on your part.🙄 BTW, <--that is how the word is spelled. No "e" after the g-->judgment.

 

[Yleio381]

You are correct. There was certainly a part of me that questioned whether or not I felt ready to pursue healthcare in the way I've imagined my career proceeding. I was more than curious about administration. And less than certain that I would be qualified or even capable of making an impact without first ironing out my intentions and unearthing the problems with healthcare. Until that point, I had only relished in the positives of medicine - certainly a self-serving bias to persuade my interests toward accepting offers. I'm definitely gaining applicable administrative skills along the way through the MBA program, but it is only an accessory to my personal development.

I've learned so far that good MBA experiences may pose significant value to change in healthcare. It feels like it will help a lot in my humble opinion :troll:, but I'm not there yet so what do I know? More than anything, it has helped me solidify my desire to obtain an MD. In spite of my MBA, I still want to be a physician first and a business man second. But now I'm a little more prepared for the latter. Again, an MBA is merely one source of these experiences. You may be able to get them just as easily anywhere else but an MBA is what I chose because it was available, cheap and directly related to my administration aspirations.

Back to the point: I totally agree with @jl lin. Students need not rush into medicine if they are doubtful. Take time to think about the career you're facing - hopefully before you receive offers. I do not regret my decision - it worked out for me. Luck, confounding factors, stupidity, whatever you decide. The truth is that I was surprised by the response from medical schools. I thought my chances were quite poor going into this cycle - who wouldn't? And your chances, in general, after declining an offer, are probably lower (quite a bit lower). But in my (odd?) circumstance where so much was gained during my extra year, things worked out for me. I'm very excited to become a physician, help others and hopefully find a way to make a positive and lasting impression on the infrastructure of American healthcare. And I hope that anyone who was previously put off by my attitude can find it within them to look beyond my flaws. I confronted a dragon - some would say without warrant or proper preparation - and the damn thing slipped and fell on my sword. I thought I was a hero but perhaps I'm just absurdly lucky. The great unfathomable forces in the universe worked in my favor and I am eternally grateful.

Honestly, what confuses me most is your timeline. You declined an acceptance last April (when you started this thread) and then applied again two months later? Which means you would've just started your MBA when you applied again. So you decided to immediately apply a second time, even though you still weren't sure about medicine, then by the time you got an interview you had a series of epiphanies about the healthcare system? It's just hard for me to wrap my head around that.

 

[Glandzburg]

OK @mehc012. I get you are one of the "followers." I believe there is something more green fueling that ridiculous, baseless, "hate" or whatever it is. That's right. Don't roar against the online crowd. 😀 One should not even dare think for oneself and speak it on SDN--unless one gets special privilege from certain folks ahead of time.🙄

Yes. Now I remember. You were also one of the ones I wisely put on ignore. As they say, more times than not, trust your first instincts. So, it's back to being banished into the Phantom Zone for you.

BTW, defining 'poor judgment' simply b/c someone differs and sees something from a somewhat different perspective than you and a few minions online is some serious imbecility, as well as a few other things. More than likely this thread is all about the insanity that is that noxious, odious fog of pride and arrogance, which pervades a lot of medicine--that is, the need to say "I'm right, and you are wrong." I mean there can be some good things in that, but I have lived and worked to see how the bad part of that can do some serious damage to patients, as well as crush morale in a hospital/clinic. It also stifles ingenuity.

Good judgment on your part.🙄 BTW, <--that is how the word is spelled. No "e" after the g-->judgment.

Does it ever stop???? Or is this one is those dreaded never-ending soapboxes? We heard you the first time, but go ahead and milk it for all it's worth.

What is with all the preaching on this forsaken thread?

 

[jl lin]

Does it ever stop???? Or is this one is those dreaded never-ending soapboxes? We heard you the first time, but go ahead and milk it for all it's worth.

What is with all the preaching on this forsaken thread?

So, it's perfectly fine for the person to whom I directed the comment above to say that the OP has poor judgment b/c (opinions differed, risky approach, already covered, yada, yads, and b/c the OP had the nerve to "totally agree w/ jl lin.")

Um, how did you miss that in your reading???


-->

. So between that and the fact that you have uttered the sentence "I totally agree with jl lin" (regardless of context), yeah, your judgement is what is raising eyebrows and/or hackles.

Now come on already. That's an obvious and ridiculous slam to two people for idiotic reasons.

 

[22031 Alum]

I get you are one of the "followers."

Don't roar against the online crowd.

To be clear: what you are calling being a follower and going with the crowd, is actually giving advice based on knowledge and experience-- neither of which you have in this process, incidentally. What makes you so convinced that you're right?? Oh right, years of being near doctors and knowing absolutely nothing except what you feel is right.

The only reason I'm not going to put you on ignore is because the people who read these forums for legitimate info deserve to know that you are full of crap and nothing you say is worthwhile.

 

[jl lin]

To be clear: what you are calling being a follower and going with the crowd, is actually giving advice based on knowledge and experience-- neither of which you have in this process, incidentally. What makes you so convinced that you're right?? Oh right, years of being near doctors and knowing absolutely nothing except what you feel is right.

The only reason I'm not going to put you on ignore is because the people who read these forums for legitimate info deserve to know that you are full of crap and nothing you say is worthwhile.

What? What in the world? I am sorry but this is, euphemistically put, a bizarre response. Being a follower is actually giving advice? What? This doesn't make any sense. . .at all.

I am not convinced of anything. I look at all sides and perspectives. And to say I am full of crap is obnoxious, incorrect, and frankly beneath you.
This kind of abuse should undergo separate evaluation. I am sorry. This is just a nasty response that is so incredibly overboard. Alum, I don't even know what to say to you, b/c this is just, to use your word, a bunch of absolute crap.

BTW, what do you want this OP to do? Why are you trying to nail him to some tree? He and I and numerous others have openly admitted how risky his choice was. He is still, at least in theory, a free person, with the ability to make free, individual decisions.
I don't care if he wanted an MBA or not. He said he was trying to get some insight. Again, look how many people regret their decision to go to medical school. You MUST be aware of this.

Your overreaction is way out there, and perhaps b/c I am not easy to tolerate bully behavior, I have offended your sensibilities in this regard. I pray that is not true.

Seriously, this is just beyond anything reasonable--especially now that you have decided to go into hate mode. That is completely ridiculous.

Again, you don't know this OP personally. He is not giving advice on how to get into MS and then decline and then apply again. He has stated the obvious problems with that. Seriously, what is your problem?

 

[22031 Alum]

What? What in the world? I am sorry but this is, euphemistically put, a bizarre response. Being a follower is actually giving advice? What? This doesn't make any sense. . .at all.

I am not convinced of anything. I look at all sides and perspectives.

Someone gives advice that comes from experience. You disagree with it so you call it "being a follower." You are too in love with the sound of your own voice (figuratively speaking) to get that maybe the chorus of voices disagreeing with you is not because everybody else is a bunch of "bullies" and "followers," but because you are wrong. Almost everything you say is wrong. You can wrap yourself in this self-righteous attitude of being open minded and looking at all sides, but in actuality you're just wrong. And when you are wrong, those of us who have the patience to get through your essays will point it out.

 

[jl lin]

Someone gives advice that comes from experience. You disagree with it so you call it "being a follower." You are too in love with the sound of your own voice (figuratively speaking) to get that maybe the chorus of voices disagreeing with you is not because everybody else is a bunch of "bullies" and "followers," but because you are wrong. Almost everything you say is wrong. You can wrap yourself in this self-righteous attitude of being open minded and looking at all sides, but in actuality you're just wrong. And when you are wrong, those of us who have the patience to get through your essays will point it out.

Again, you are not making sense. Certainly not everyone in the world would agree with you, regardless of their experience.

You want to be judgmental toward me, as you seem to be doing w/ the OP, go ahead; but in doing so, you are indeed the one that is wrong. People can, do, and rightly have the place to disagree.

Again, WHERE DOES IT SAY ANYONE SAID THIS IS AN OPTIMAL APPROACH TO TAKE? WHERE DOES THE OP or even jl say, GO AHEAD AND DO THIS, B/C THIS IS NOT AT ALL RISKY??? It hasn't been said by the OP or by me or anyone else in this thread so far as I can tell.

You are way out of bounds here, and sadly I fear it is b/c the bully-factor. This is the very thing that disgusts people about SDN.

I am done here. This is totally bizarre.

 

[Ismet]

Keep it civil and on topic here. If a user bothers you, there's the "ignore" function as well as taking a step back from the screen.

 

[MediPhil]

I'm baffled, lol. I can absolutely understand why people would disagree with my decision. But I can't fathom how an established physician and verified faculty would lower him/herself to this semantics fist fight. I can't speak to jl lin's credentials because I don't know them. But you guys need to chill. I'm just a lowly pre-med who made a questionable choice. And now, I have pitted "grown-ass adults" against each other in a keyboard feud.

You can stick around and bicker but I'm dismissing myself and will attempt to refrain from checking up on this thread anymore.

 

[Lawpy]

jl lin never fails to amaze me

 

[ZPakEffect]

OP, congratulations, you have most masterfully trolled SDN. Your trolling skills are without compare.

 

[medic86]

OK @mehc012. I get you are one of the "followers." I believe there is something more green fueling that ridiculous, baseless, "hate" or whatever it is. That's right. Don't roar against the online crowd. 😀 One should not even dare think for oneself and speak it on SDN--unless one gets special privilege from certain folks ahead of time.🙄

Yes. Now I remember. You were also one of the ones I wisely put on ignore. As they say, more times than not, trust your first instincts. So, it's back to being banished into the Phantom Zone for you.

BTW, defining 'poor judgment' simply by way of someone having the "temerity" to differ and sees something from a somewhat different perspective than you and a few minions online is some serious imbecility, as well as a few other things. More than likely this thread is all about the insanity that is that noxious, odious fog of pride and arrogance, which pervades a lot of medicine--that is, the need to say "I'm right, and you are wrong." I mean there can be some good things in that, but I have lived and worked to see how the bad part of that can do some serious damage to patients, as well as crush morale in a hospital/clinic. It also stifles ingenuity.

Good judgment on your part.🙄 BTW, <--that is how the word is spelled. No "e" after the g-->judgment.

Did you just call mehc012 a follower?

That's ****ing hilarious.

 

[Lucca]

I'm baffled, lol. I can absolutely understand why people would disagree with my decision. But I can't fathom how an established physician and verified faculty would lower him/herself to this semantics fist fight. I can't speak to jl lin's credentials because I don't know them. But you guys need to chill. I'm just a lowly pre-med who made a questionable choice. And now, I have pitted "grown-ass adults" against each other in a keyboard feud.

You can stick around and bicker but I'm dismissing myself and will attempt to refrain from checking up on this thread anymore.

For the same reasons oncologists make a run for liquor and coffee when a new "cancer cure" comes on Dr. Oz or something. Bad advice can hurt people. The people who are responsible for the people receiving the advice feel they need to remind people what bad advice looks like. You're fine in this regard, I think you've admitted the faults in your decision enough times but it looks like you have gained some supporters along the way.

 

[mehc012]

For the same reasons oncologists make a run for liquor and coffee when a new "cancer cure" comes on Dr. Oz or something. Bad advice can hurt people. The people who are responsible for the people receiving the advice feel they need to remind people what bad advice looks like. You're fine in this regard, I think you've admitted the faults in your decision enough times but it looks like you have gained some supporters along the way.

This. So much this.
To be clear, @MediPhil, I've got absolutely nothing against you at this point. The early posts bugged me a fair bit, but you have responded really well to everyone's reactions even when they were (and I apologize for my own shortcomings on this front), shall we say, not very diplomatically put...hell, you even seem to have learned, which is really the point of this site! I only didn't mention it in my last post because, well, I figured you probably don't really gaf what I think about you (nor should you) and didn't want to seem condescending. Sorry for being overly quick to harshness (OK, I was a prat) earlier in here.

@Lucca's post hits it on the head, though: this is why people stick with threads like this, even when the OP's outcome is already final and no more discrete advice is needed. While I am happy for you and your outcome, and I think it was absolutely awesome that you came back and shared such valuable information about your story with us...the couching of that information is important for future users who maybe haven't read several years' worth of context and similar stories with worse outcomes. I only hope that you can take the continued discussion that way instead of as personal attacks, and that whatever long-winded, incoherent/poorly reasoned rants jl lin (not reading the ignored posts in here, but saw her name pop up and I've never read a thread with her in it that couldn't be described that way) is spinning don't completely derail the thread or mislead future SDNers with poor information.