Accepted to PA school, but...

[PAorMDhopeful]

Hi everyone,

I have had a very difficult time deciding what I want to do for a career. I have always had my mind set on MD (took the pre-reqs, got clinical experience, etc), but earlier this year I found that PA might be a better fit (possibly better lifestyle, good pay, decent scope of practice). So, I have applied to PA school this cycle and have been fortunate to receive a few acceptances to programs that I would love to attend.

My problem is that I am being overwhelmed with the negatives associated with being a PA -- the constant disrespect, the glass ceiling (both financially and scope of practice wise), and the misconceptions people have about the profession (i.e. mixing up PAs for Medical Assistants). Is it possible to get beyond these negatives and enjoy life as a PA?

I have searched PA vs MD to death (both here and on the pa forums), spoken with PAs, MDs, etc. But, still, I am having such a difficult time deciding. I know I want to work with people in a clinical setting in the future, but I am having trouble coming to terms with the negative aspects of the PA profession and always being an "assistant."

Thanks so much for any input/advice anyone can give!

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[facetguy]

How old are you?

 

[PAorMDhopeful]

I am 23. Two years removed from undergrad.

I know many people on SDN urge younger people (<25) to pursue medical school, but for someone interested in pursuing primary care, it doesn't seem like a logical decision to become an MD when primary care PAs have a lot of similar responsibilities, less debt, less overhead, etc.

 

[Paseo Del Norte]

If concerns about your title and how much "respect" you will receive are making you hesitate, you may want to reconsider a career in health care. You will often NEVER receive a significant amount of respect and regardless of your role, there will ALWAYS be confusion and misconceptions.

Also, many people encourage medical school on this site because dialogue about getting into medical school and the medical school experience are the primary functions of this site.

 

[deleted6669]

Go to med school!

 

[Makati2008]

I am 23. Two years removed from undergrad.

I know many people on SDN urge younger people (<25) to pursue medical school, but for someone interested in pursuing primary care, it doesn't seem like a logical decision to become an MD when primary care PAs have a lot of similar responsibilities, less debt, less overhead, etc.

Lol I oddly think I know who this is. I think my friend EP? Anyway if not go to medical school it's worth it in the end. I always asked myself every August could I get through med school and glad I went back to test myself.

Also I will offer one caveat, if your doing horribly on the MCAT I would go the PA route because whose to say that those same seats will be given to you again if you have to reapply.

Also there is a ton of places that forgive loans so don't worry about that part. Also do you want to be a doc or your family want you to be a doc?

Good luck.

 

[Makati2008]

Lol I oddly think I know who this is. I think my friend EP? Anyway if not go to medical school it's worth it in the end. I always asked myself every August could I get through med school and glad I went back to test myself.

Also I will offer one caveat, if your doing horribly on the MCAT I would go the PA route because whose to say that those same seats will be given to you again if you have to reapply.

Also there is a ton of places that forgive loans so don't worry about that part. Also do you want to be a doc or your family want you to be a doc?

Good luck.

An on the monetary note, you can make good money. I made 180k/yr when i left my old job and could have made 200k+ if I decided to bust my butt.

 

[PAorMDhopeful]

Thank you all so much for the replies.

Paseo -- Respect is something that I know I will struggle with, regardless of my career. I work for an ophthalmologist currently and every time I mention I'm looking to attend PA school (to the patients I work with), I almost always have to explain/defend my decision. I'm just not looking forward to having to do such a thing throughout my professional career. I wouldn't say I'm an egomaniac, but that certainly will beat up on an any ego over time.

Emed -- I am certainly not shocked to see that message from you (as I have read the majority of your responses to PA/MD threads for younger applicants here and on the pa forms), but I'm glad to see that you wrote it! And I know why you advocate for it so much, but I am still hard pressed to find PAs working longer hours than the MDs I have worked for / shadowed. While I can imagine there are PAs out there (like yourself) who work many more shifts/hours than their MD counterparts, I can't imagine that being an MD would allow for having more of a life outside of work than a PA (that includes the schooling + training process). Lifestyle is a huge issue for me. Although only 23 years old, I'm not quite ready to sacrifice the next decade of my life solely (more or less) for medicine.

Makati -- Haha I'm not sure I am the one who you are thinking of, but either way I appreciate the messages. I'm not too terrified of the MCAT as I prepared for it for a few months this past spring and took practice tests along the way (I deferred taking it once I decided on PA school). But I can certainly relate to thinking about whether or not I'm cut out for med school / physician lifestyle each year. That's great that you decided to go back to become an MD, I have much respect for people who are able to do that!

Again, thanks everyone for the responses. I have many fears (both PA and MD) about the future, especially the way that healthcare is going. I have a background in economics so I was thinking of possibly pursuing something in business, but I know that my heart lies in the arena of dealing with patients. I have considered a lot of healthcare professions (like speech-language path, audiologist, etc), but it just seems like PA offers the most meaningful patient interactions while also have a decent scope of practice (and without losing your life outside of medicine). Despite knowing that I will probably debate PA vs MD until I hit the grave, I find that I value friends, family, etc. over a career as an expert in medicine (despite always wanting to hold such a position).

 

[tobi44]

Hi everyone,

I have had a very difficult time deciding what I want to do for a career. I have always had my mind set on MD (took the pre-reqs, got clinical experience, etc), but earlier this year I found that PA might be a better fit (possibly better lifestyle, good pay, decent scope of practice). So, I have applied to PA school this cycle and have been fortunate to receive a few acceptances to programs that I would love to attend.

My problem is that I am being overwhelmed with the negatives associated with being a PA -- the constant disrespect, the glass ceiling (both financially and scope of practice wise), and the misconceptions people have about the profession (i.e. mixing up PAs for Medical Assistants). Is it possible to get beyond these negatives and enjoy life as a PA?

I have searched PA vs MD to death (both here and on the pa forums), spoken with PAs, MDs, etc. But, still, I am having such a difficult time deciding. I know I want to work with people in a clinical setting in the future, but I am having trouble coming to terms with the negative aspects of the PA profession and always being an "assistant."

Thanks so much for any input/advice anyone can give!

I would do PA school if I were you. It sounds like you think its a better fit for you and your only reason for wanting med school is for the respect. I try not to make big decisions like this based on what other people think.

Heck, I'm a med student planning on psychiatry and I indeed feel the lack of respect thing about my (hopefully) future field. I'm learning to get over it though and make the choices that are best for me. I hope that you do too.

 

[primadonna22274]

Let me be the 3rd PA and the 2nd current med student to tell you: GO TO MEDICAL SCHOOL.
If you don't know within reason that you will be a competitive applicant, it might be reasonable to go ahead and accept the spot in PA school--but I would caution you NOT to consider it a stepping stone to becoming a physician. It can be, but it is more expensive and arduous and downright frustrating at times--and one could argue wasteful.
Yes, I have done it, but I put my time in (12 yr as a PA).
I too applied to PA school at 23 and went, and thoroughly enjoyed it, but I experienced every one of your concerns within the first few years of my career. Partly due to my indecision and largely due to financial constraints, I put off going back to med school for a decade, and it has only gotten more expensive!
It's also harder to learn this much material at the depth required when one has been out of school for many years. I had to relearn how I learned best--and it was tenuous at times. Happy to say I'm doing very well now and grateful for the opportunity, but no lie, medical school makes PA school look like a cakewalk.
Good luck

 

[PAorMDhopeful]

I really appreciate everyone's responses.

I am making myself sick over this decision. Does anyone have any recommendations of how I could go about finding more information to decide whether I really want to do MD or PA? Is shadowing the only answer (aside from perusing the internet, which has proven to be a depressing decision)?

I have a few weeks to send in another deposit, and ideally I'd like to decide before then so I can either a) start studying for the MCAT or b) forget about med school and just go full-steam-ahead for PA school once classes begin in June.

 

[deleted6669]

i really appreciate everyone's responses.

I am making myself sick over this decision. Does anyone have any recommendations of how i could go about finding more information to decide whether i really want to do md or pa? Is shadowing the only answer (aside from perusing the internet, which has proven to be a depressing decision)?

I have a few weeks to send in another deposit, and ideally i'd like to decide before then so i can either a) start studying for the mcat or b) forget about med school and just go full-steam-ahead for pa school once classes begin in june.

flip a coin. Heads or tails med school. If it lands on edge pa school....

 

[zenman]

flip a coin. Heads or tails med school. If it lands on edge pa school....

Flipping a quarter is actually good. Notice the immediate gut feeling you have when it lands on heads or tail. Ever consider a life coach? Forget the career counselors. All you need is a job where you will be happy and make enough money to pay for your hobbies.

 

[Optomchick]

Hi everyone,

I have had a very difficult time deciding what I want to do for a career. I have always had my mind set on MD (took the pre-reqs, got clinical experience, etc), but earlier this year I found that PA might be a better fit (possibly better lifestyle, good pay, decent scope of practice). So, I have applied to PA school this cycle and have been fortunate to receive a few acceptances to programs that I would love to attend.

My problem is that I am being overwhelmed with the negatives associated with being a PA -- the constant disrespect, the glass ceiling (both financially and scope of practice wise), and the misconceptions people have about the profession (i.e. mixing up PAs for Medical Assistants). Is it possible to get beyond these negatives and enjoy life as a PA?

I have searched PA vs MD to death (both here and on the pa forums), spoken with PAs, MDs, etc. But, still, I am having such a difficult time deciding. I know I want to work with people in a clinical setting in the future, but I am having trouble coming to terms with the negative aspects of the PA profession and always being an "assistant."

Thanks so much for any input/advice anyone can give!

I would go to med school, you never know if some legislation could take away PA rights like prescribing medicine...plus it sounds like you think you could handle the med school workload.

 

[facetguy]

I would go to med school, you never know if some legislation could take away PA rights like prescribing medicine...plus it sounds like you think you could handle the med school workload.

Is this on the radar screen somewhere?

If anything, I'd think PA's would have a better shot at seeing an expansion in role given the trajectory of healthcare.

 

[vietdoc77]

The title of Physician ASSISTANT says it all. You will never gain practicing Independence. I've never been a PA before but my friend say "being a PA likes u are doing residency for the rest of your life"

 

[Makati2008]

The title of Physician ASSISTANT says it all. You will never gain practicing Independence. I've never been a PA before but my friend say "being a PA likes u are doing residency for the rest of your life"

Your friend is in the wrong practice or your a liar one of the two. Plus I make a helluva a lot more than a resident

 

[Makati2008]

Is this on the radar screen somewhere?

If anything, I'd think PA's would have a better shot at seeing an expansion in role given the trajectory of healthcare.

You would be correct

 

[vietdoc77]

Of course you will start making around 80k right after getting out school, compares with the residents' salary, its almost double in some places. In term of working, you are to be on call at night, doin all kind of work and wait for the doctors to "sign off". Being under physician's umbrellas for the whole time.whats the difference between the 2?

 

[Makati2008]

Of course you will start making around 80k right after getting out school, compares with the residents' salary, its almost double in some places. In term of working, you are to be on call at night, doin all kind of work and wait for the doctors to "sign off". Being under physician's umbrellas for the whole time.whats the difference between the 2?

Loo actually I made six figures right out. Also I did my own work and the SP would sign off long after the patient has been discharged. If I remember correctly doesn't the attending have to see every patient of the resident? In some fields it's much less for pas

 

[vietdoc77]

An on the monetary note, you can make good money. I made 180k/yr when i left my old job and could have made 200k+ if I decided to bust my butt.

How in the world someone can jump from 80k to 200k+ per year working 40 hours per week doing the same work? As a nurse I could say I make 130K a year if I worked 2 fulltime jobs (and thats doable), Pls don't make me laugh.

 

[vietdoc77]

Loo actually I made six figures right out. Also I did my own work and the SP would sign off long after the patient has been discharged. If I remember correctly doesn't the attending have to see every patient of the resident? In some fields it's much less for pas

Again, I've never been a PA nor a Resident so I do not know. Its just my opinion based on what I know. I do not mean to put any career down because we all have our own value that people need to repect that. I am a nurse and I am always proud to be who I am. I've never try to exaggerate, pretend or act like something or someone that I am not titled for.

 

[Makati2008]

How in the world someone can jump from 80k to 200k+ per year working 40 hours per week doing the same work? As a nurse I could say I make 130K a year if I worked 2 fulltime jobs (and thats doable), Pls don't make me laugh.

Because your uneducated in what a PA can do and what they make. And you made me laugh with your username. Did you not pass your steps? I don't know where your located where PAs are making 80k but that's on them for being in area that pays.

If I were you I would focus less on PAs and try to get into someone's medical school but again I personally disagree with you getting in anywhere if your truly an FMG that couldn't even get into the EPP

 

[deleted6669]

big money CAN be made as a PA but you work your butt off for it.
avg pa in my em group this yr made 140k. top made 200k. bottom around 90 k for a new grad we hired to just do fast track. in a few years she will make more.
the 200 k guy worked a lot of overtime and a lot of nights.
we have a few fp docs as well. they make 180k/yr working a cush schedule of 32 hrs/week with no nights. em boarded docs make 350k+ working 24-32 hrs/week (but they do some nights).

 

[Boatswain2PA]

How in the world someone can jump from 80k to 200k+ per year working 40 hours per week doing the same work? As a nurse I could say I make 130K a year if I worked 2 fulltime jobs (and thats doable), Pls don't make me laugh.

New grad in a saturated PA market. First job offer was 65k for PEDs, second offer $80k for or tho, third offer $90k for urgent care. Took the last offer of 115k for ER an hour out of town.

To the OP - set your goals high. goal should be big leagues, not minor leagues. Anything else and you are selling self short.

 

[primadonna22274]

12 yr as a PA. Never made more than $120k and that was 2 jobs! Market varies greatly.

 

[deleted6669]

New grad in a saturated PA market. First job offer was 65k for PEDs, second offer $80k for or tho, third offer $90k for urgent care. Took the last offer of 115k for ER an hour out of town.

strong work and highest new grad em salary I have heard of (without overtime).
one of my students a few yrs ago took a rural job ; 12 12 hr shifts/mo for 110k....in Idaho....

 

[Makati2008]

12 yr as a PA. Never made more than $120k and that was 2 jobs! Market varies greatly.

I am seeing that. I remember in New York there was a single coverage place paying in the high 20s/low 30s I had to get off the phone to be nice.

 

[vietdoc77]

lol Be upgraded yourself lol, get a psych eval if needed!

 

[Makati2008]

lol Be upgraded yourself lol, get a psych eval if needed!

One word: Huh

 

[Boatswain2PA]

strong work and highest new grad em salary I have heard of (without overtime).
one of my students a few yrs ago took a rural job ; 12 12 hr shifts/mo for 110k....in Idaho....

That's what I've got (12 13hr shifts or so a month). Mostly nights and no bennies, but pay is great, learning experience is probably unmatched, and supervising docs & nurses are terrific.

 

[deleted6669]

That's what I've got (12 13hr shifts or so a month). Mostly nights and no bennies, but pay is great, learning experience is probably unmatched, and supervising docs & nurses are terrific.

too bad about the no bennies. my student who got the 110k got a full bennies package as well.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

too bad about the no bennies. my student who got the 110k got a full bennies package as well.

Yeah, but I'm retired military so doesn't hurt me too bad. I have to pay my own time off, malpractice, and CME, but I also get to write that off taxes (and child support), and I get to write off other business expenses.

It's a great job with great pay, especially when you consider the local market here - 1 PA program and 2 NP programs that flood the 600,000 population area with about 120-150 new MLPs a year.

 

[deleted6669]

Yeah, but I'm retired military so doesn't hurt me too bad. I have to pay my own time off, malpractice, and CME, but I also get to write that off taxes (and child support), and I get to write off other business expenses.

It's a great job with great pay, especially when you consider the local market here - 1 PA program and 2 NP programs that flood the 600,000 population area with about 120-150 new MLPs a year.

cool. as long as you have the military picking up healthcare it sounds like a great deal.

 

[zenman]

cool. as long as you have the military picking up healthcare it sounds like a great deal.

As long as you thing the VA is heaven, lol!

 

[deleted6669]

As long as you thing the VA is heaven, lol!

tricare coverage is good at any hospital...the problem is finding a pcp with tricare outside a hospital....

 

[Boatswain2PA]

As long as you thing the VA is heaven, lol!

Another clueless Zen moment.

I'm RETIRED. Being retired military does not mean I get comprehensive care from the VA. That is based on military disability (which is a system so bad that ONLY a Zen master could have devised). Instead, I have Tricare which, if you live near a base, is pretty good.

 

[zenman]

Another clueless Zen moment.

I'm RETIRED. Being retired military does not mean I get comprehensive care from the VA. That is based on military disability (which is a system so bad that ONLY a Zen master could have devised). Instead, I have Tricare which, if you live near a base, is pretty good.

I'd say you're pretty much clueless since you said the same thing I was saying. Jeez... so frickin stipid....I should put you on a permanent profile. Go back and read if you can where I said "VA" and nothing about tricare, civilian hospitals or military hospitals.

I'm ex military, currently work for the military, did clinicals at the VA, and have a military dependent daughter with twins and a father who uses the VA.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

I'm ex military, currently work for the military.....

I knew it. They based that movie on YOU didn't they!

You know, that movie: "Men who stare at goats!"

I KNEW IT!!!!"

 

[zenman]

I knew it. They based that movie on YOU didn't they!

You know, that movie: "Men who stare at goats!"

I KNEW IT!!!!"

Tangential mean anything to you? You might want to consult the nearest psych person immediately.

 

[NatalieA1986]

I never considered medical school because I didn't want to give up that much of my life, period. You could call that being "sacrifice adverse", but I call it a personal value that not everyone shares. You have 80 years on this earth, and if you spend 7 in medical school, that's nearly 10% of your life. A salary cap or limited scope of practice isn't a big deal to me. I can be a midlevel and make 80-120k and be happy. If I wanted to do medical procedures that are outside of a PA or NP's scope of practice it might be different for me. I would hate to choose a specialty because of the lifestyle, rather than it being something I wanted to do. As a midlevel, you can have a good lifestyle no matter what specialty you choose. I have shadowed several cardiology and neurosurgery midlevels in a major metropolitan area, and they work four 10 hour shifts per week, unlike their physician colleagues.

I was recently accepted to PA and NP programs. Though I have not made a firm decision, I am currently leaning towards NP programs because I feel too limited by the career advancement/leadership positions available to PAs. PAs can have leadership positions, but it is harder. As a NP, I can have the scope of practice I want and potential to take on leadership roles, because "nursing" is a parallel career track to "medicine".

I am NOT a person who thinks NPs (DNPs or not) should replace physicians. I want to have a collaborative agreement with a physician because I respect the training of physicians and do not want the liability of a physician. All the NPs I've seen have collaborative/supervisory agreements with physicians and are salaried. The primary care NP I see usually spends 30 minutes to an hour with me, and she isn't pressured to see as many patients.

Just my two cents. It's all about your values. I don't ever want kids. I want my life, and I want it now. Being a midlevel isn't for everyone, and neither is medical school/ being a physician. You can call it sacrifice-averse or naive if you want, but I know my values, and I do not want to a physician replacement and am willing to give up prestige or the ability to do certain procedures in exchange.

 

[pamac]

I never considered medical school because I didn't want to give up that much of my life, period. You could call that being "sacrifice adverse", but I call it a personal value that not everyone shares. You have 80 years on this earth, and if you spend 7 in medical school, that's nearly 10% of your life. A salary cap or limited scope of practice isn't a big deal to me. I can be a midlevel and make 80-120k and be happy. If I wanted to do medical procedures that are outside of a PA or NP's scope of practice it might be different for me. I would hate to choose a specialty because of the lifestyle, rather than it being something I wanted to do. As a midlevel, you can have a good lifestyle no matter what specialty you choose. I have shadowed several cardiology and neurosurgery midlevels in a major metropolitan area, and they work four 10 hour shifts per week, unlike their physician colleagues.

I was recently accepted to PA and NP programs. Though I have not made a firm decision, I am currently leaning towards NP programs because I feel too limited by the career advancement/leadership positions available to PAs. PAs can have leadership positions, but it is harder. As a NP, I can have the scope of practice I want and potential to take on leadership roles, because "nursing" is a parallel career track to "medicine".

I am NOT a person who thinks NPs (DNPs or not) should replace physicians. I want to have a collaborative agreement with a physician because I respect the training of physicians and do not want the liability of a physician. All the NPs I've seen have collaborative/supervisory agreements with physicians and are salaried. The primary care NP I see usually spends 30 minutes to an hour with me, and she isn't pressured to see as many patients.

Just my two cents. It's all about your values. I don't ever want kids. I want my life, and I want it now. Being a midlevel isn't for everyone, and neither is medical school/ being a physician. You can call it sacrifice-averse or naive if you want, but I know my values, and I do not want to a physician replacement and am willing to give up prestige or the ability to do certain procedures in exchange.

There are certain types of people that should aim towards medical school vs being a nonphysician provider. However, I look at the choice to persue NP or PA as one that should be similar to deciding to do any other career in healthcare vs becoming a physician. My wife is in the medical field and has the background and academics to get into medical school, PA school, nursing school... whatever she wants. But she is interested in the field she is in and is phenomenal at it.... 4.0 all the way, and has acheived everything she wants in it. Its nice that there are folks as sharp as her running her department rather than heading out to become an MD. Thats good for patients to have top quality nurses, RTs, lab scientists, PA's, NP's. Thats why Yale has a PA school rather than telling all those great candidates to buck up and go to medical school.

By now, to people who do their homework, the cat's out of the bag that if you want to be the big cheese, then being an NPP isnt going to satisfy that urge. There are those that get into PA or NP and then get frustrated at limits on them that they themselves should have forseen. I'm in my thirties, and have gone to school long enough to have been a doctor by now had I focused on that, but thats not what I wanted to do. Too many things didn't appeal to me about that.... relocation to go to school, relocation to do residency, no absolute control over the location of either of the former, high cost, amount of stress involved, being locked into a specialty. That exact avenue isn't for everyone. The key is to identify what factors specifically that turn you off, and making sure you are correct in your assumptions (like NPPs getting more face time with patients than doctors.... often they don't.... or getting better hours.... many times, if not most, they get the shaft). Theres something to be said for knowing what you are getting into and choosing that path.

When I was in the laboratory, would I have liked to earn my boss's salary? Sure. Did I want thier job, along with all the headaches? No. Now, the fact that many NPPs do the same job as an MD/DO can become a frustration when they run up against limitations, red tape, etc. but the answer isn't always to invent a time machine and go do medical school instead.

 

[facetguy]

... but the answer isn't always to invent a time machine and go do medical school instead.

The answer is to invent a time machine, go a few days into the future, get the winning Powerball numbers, come back, play said numbers and forget all about working in healthcare.

 

[PAorMDhopeful]

I find it such a hard decision because PAs say go to medical school, whereas doctors say to do ANYTHING else. The burnout rate + oversight for MDs/DOs seems to make life miserable for them to the point where the majority of them discourage the youth from pursuing medicine.

 

[deleted6669]

.
we deal with most of the same frustrations and many extra special ones reserved just for PAs.
pursuing a career as a pa still results in you practicing medicine.
docs who are unhappy as docs would also be unhappy as PAs

 

[Makati2008]

That is very very very true EMED

 

[steiner2]

My problem is that I am being overwhelmed with the negatives associated with being a PA -- the constant disrespect, the glass ceiling (both financially and scope of practice wise), and the misconceptions people have about the profession (i.e. mixing up PAs for Medical Assistants). Is it possible to get beyond these negatives and enjoy life as a PA?


Thanks so much for any input/advice anyone can give!

Why don't you go be a NP. They are getting way more clout than PAs with all their lobbying. You'll be further marginalized.

 

[PAorMDhopeful]

Why don't you go be a NP. They are getting way more clout than PAs with all their lobbying. You'll be further marginalized.

I prefer learning to be a clinician through the medical model rather than the nursing model. I've honestly never considered going the nursing route, it's always been PA or MD.

 

[PAorMDhopeful]

Knowing that I have yet to study for and take the MCAT, would I still be in decent shape to apply for med school this season? I know applying early is key, which is why I am worried. I'm still sitting on my PA acceptance, but I am evaluating my situation right now...

 

[NancyNY]

Would it be possible to try out PA school and apply to medical school while you're there and transfer credits if accepted into the medical school?