ADCOMS: Semi-Solicited Advice [Part II]

[quartertone]

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Dear LizzyM and Adcoms,

A couple months ago, I sent a letter of intent to one waitlist school (school A), saying how much I really wanted to go there, because it was my first choice at the time. In doing so, I seem to have put myself in a pickle since now my first choice has changed to another waitlist school (school B), having given it two more months of thought.

What I really want to do is to tell school B that they are in fact my first choice and take back what I said to school A without hindering my chances at either place. Knowing that I can't actually do this, do you have any suggestions as to how I should proceed? If by some miracle I get accepted to school B (my current first choice) before school A, would it be okay to withdraw from school A before they say anything else?

Thank you for your time and your commitment to us students! This is really a wonderful thread.

 

[LizzyM]

Again, I know that I want to go into medicine, but for a number of financial reasons (including having an ill family member), I would rather not move away right now to do a formal SMP. Also, since the med school I work at is my first choice (although I am by no means only applying here), how would the adcomm here look at this decision, since they are familiar with the courses? Sorry if this is confusing, I just want to know what my next steps should be before it's too late. Thanks a lot!

Dont' bet on the adcom knowing much about the courses offered in the MS program in biology.

Taking a couple of courses while working might be okay.

Again, finances and family members aside, if you were admitted to a medical school today with the understanding that it was a 5 year program, would you quit your job & go?

 

[LizzyM]

Dear LizzyM and Adcoms,

A couple months ago, I sent a letter of intent to one waitlist school (school A), saying how much I really wanted to go there, because it was my first choice at the time. In doing so, I seem to have put myself in a pickle since now my first choice has changed to another waitlist school (school B), having given it two more months of thought.

What I really want to do is to tell school B that they are in fact my first choice and take back what I said to school A without hindering my chances at either place. Knowing that I can't actually do this, do you have any suggestions as to how I should proceed? If by some miracle I get accepted to school B (my current first choice) before school A, would it be okay to withdraw from school A before they say anything else?

Thank you for your time and your commitment to us students! This is really a wonderful thread.

Avoid any "I love you best" remarks. Just say that you are still very intersted in ___(school B)___ and admire x about the curriculum, opportunities for Y, the z facilities. You would be proud to someday say that you are a graduate of School B.


If you get off the waitlist of School B, you can drop School A and say that you need to close the books on the admission cycle and prepare for the next phase of your life (in other words, "School A, I'm tired of waiting for you").

The only problem will be if School A calls first and you feel that you have to accept (if you currently hold no offers or if you like A better than the schools where you've been accepted)

 

[banana5]

• AMCAS will include this course work in AMCAS GPAs.

Lizzy,

After your response I checked with AMCAS and my pre-med advisor and the grades will not be counted in the AMCAS GPA because they are not reported in a way that is easily convertible to our 4.0 scale.

However, the grades will still appear on the transcript. For what it's worth, will adcoms care how I do in these courses? I plan to work hard, but I'll be taking courses like a regular university student along native-speakers. Will adcoms appreciate that I challenged myself or still expect straight As?

Thanks.

edit: I just noticed it wasn't you who responded originally. Sorry. The situation is that I'm interested in taking courses in France next year through my school's abroad program. The courses would be taught in French and it would be at a regular French University. I'll get credit for the classes, but the grades will not be counted in my school GPA or the AMCAS gpa. I really want to do this program, but could be convinced to do a program with classes taught in English for study abroad students in France where I could presumably do better.

 

[postbacker]

Lizzy,

After your response I checked with AMCAS and my pre-med advisor and the grades will not be counted in the AMCAS GPA because they are not reported in a way that is easily convertible to our 4.0 scale.

However, the grades will still appear on the transcript. For what it's worth, will adcoms care how I do in these courses? I plan to work hard, but I'll be taking courses like a regular university student along native-speakers. Will adcoms appreciate that I challenged myself or still expect straight As?

Thanks.

Did you verify with your registrar that they do not convert the foreign grades? I wouldn't trust the premed advisor on this - you need to ask your registrar directly how this gets reflected on the transcript. Because then you ask about what adcoms will think if you don't get straight As, so that sounds like the grades WILL appear on your transcript.

In the very least your school will probably pass some sort of judgment on the grades and convert it to pass/fail...just a guess, and there is a provision on AMCAS for that.

I hope Lizzy will still address your chief concern about how adcoms view this stuff - sorry to jump in here, but I have some of the same issues with this stuff and my info seems to conflict with what you are hearing...not trying to steal any thunder here, just trying to be helpful...

 

[LizzyM]

Lizzy,

I checked with AMCAS and my pre-med advisor and the grades will not be counted in the AMCAS GPA because they are not reported in a way that is easily convertible to our 4.0 scale.

However, the grades will still appear on the transcript. For what it's worth, will adcoms care how I do in these courses? I plan to work hard, but I'll be taking courses like a regular university student along native-speakers. Will adcoms appreciate that I challenged myself or still expect straight As?

Thanks.

edit: I just noticed it wasn't you who responded originally. Sorry. The situation is that I'm interested in taking courses in France next year through my school's abroad program. The courses would be taught in French and it would be at a regular French University. I'll get credit for the classes, but the grades will not be counted in my school GPA or the AMCAS gpa. I really want to do this program, but could be convinced to do a program with classes taught in English for study abroad students in France where I could presumably do better.

So, what you are proposing is basically a semester that will add or subtract nothing from your gpa. If you feel good about that (nothing to prove or improve), then do the semester in the French language. I really haven't enough experience with this sort of thing to say what any single member of an adcom would do -- let alone make a blanket statement about what "the adcom" would think about this situation.

 

[patrickd223]

How does the ADCOM view experience with psychology research? Is it looked as equal to nonsocial science research experience?

 

[Typical Premed]

Dear Lizzy M and Adcoms,

I am a Canadian student and I just finished my 4th year of undergrad at the University of Western Ontario. I will be hearing back from two Canadian schools that I applied to on May 15. If I don't get in to these schools I am considering applying to several American schools for the next application cycle. Are there many US schools that would accept Canadian applicants such as myself?
Here is a little more information about myself...

GPA: 4.0
BCMP: 4.0
MCAT: 36P (10VR, 14BS, 12PS)

5 years as an overnight camp counsellor, 4th year honors research project, volunteered at a geriatric health centre, assisted with several clinical research projects

 

[LizzyM]

How does the ADCOM view experience with psychology research? Is it looked as equal to nonsocial science research experience?

There is no monolithic ADCOM. Individual adcom members are going to see this in their own way. Some would consider it, and even reserach in humanities (e.g. history), as "scholarly activity". Others might be less impressed but research is research.

Focus on testable hypothesis and unbiased, systematic observation. You can make a point that research is research.

 

[memory games]

Hi Lizzy. 2 questions about the AMCAS application:

1. Languages - I studied Spanish in college and was lucky enough to live in a spanish-speaking country for 3 months and I became fluent. Since then, my speaking ability is no longer fluent, but I would still consider myself to be proficient. Should I check Spanish as one of my languages?

2. Activities - Many of what I consider to be my extra-curricular activities could also be called "artistic endeavors". Does it make a difference whether I classify them as one or the other?

Thanks again for your help!

 

[prionsRbad]

Hi Lizzy,

I'll keep it sweet and simple.

Has your school ever accepted an applicant with a ~2.9 overall and science GPA? Thanks 😀

 

[LizzyM]

Hi Lizzy,

I'll keep it sweet and simple.

Has your school ever accepted an applicant with a ~2.9 overall and science GPA? Thanks 😀

I don't know and I have no easy way of finding out. Looking at mdapplicants for 2006, there are 14 applicants who were admitted somewhere with a gpa of <3.0. You can look at those profiles and see where they ended up. I limited the search to 2006 because stats seem to increase every year and the most recent complete year will give you the best estimate.

There was a diversity of age, race & sex. Some admitted to allopathics schools, some to osteopathic only.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi Lizzy. 2 questions about the AMCAS application:

1. Languages - I studied Spanish in college and was lucky enough to live in a spanish-speaking country for 3 months and I became fluent. Since then, my speaking ability is no longer fluent, but I would still consider myself to be proficient. Should I check Spanish as one of my languages?

Do you want to be interviewed in Spanish. If yes, list it as one of your languages. Of course, your Spanish courses will be on your AMCAS and you may choose to list your 3 months abroad in the Experience section so the information will be there but you won't be holding yourself out as fluent (it takes a lot to be fluent).

2. Activities - Many of what I consider to be my extra-curricular activities could also be called "artistic endeavors". Does it make a difference whether I classify them as one or the other?

Thanks again for your help!

If artistic endeavors fits then go with it or choose something else. Except for scanning down for Volunteer/clincal or non-clinical, Research, & Paid Employment(military or non-military), and perhaps Publications, I don't much care what the other categories are, I look for the title of the activity and the description.

 

[StudDoctor]

Hi,

I think this was already answered, but I just wanted to see if there was any other information I could get pertaining to my specific situation.

I plan on taking physics at another school (not a CC) this summer. There are two reasons:

1) My school has spring and summer semesters and barely any classes are offered during the summer, while the other school offers a full summer semester (which would allow me to take more credits).

2) I want to transfer to the college of engineering by next fall, and the only way I can do this is if I take physics first, so I would HAVE to take physics during the summer regardless.

One other thing, the other school is not as highly ranked as the school I am currently at.

This is the only prereq that I plan on taking at another school, and my GPA is pretty solid right now (~3.8/3.9). I hope to keep it above a 3.8.

When it comes time for me to apply, would this be something that I should be worried about? Would adcoms look down upon this?

Thanks!

 

[LizzyM]

Hi,

I think this was already answered, but I just wanted to see if there was any other information I could get pertaining to my specific situation.

I plan on taking physics at another school (not a CC) this summer. There are two reasons:

1) My school has spring and summer semesters and barely any classes are offered during the summer, while the other school offers a full summer semester (which would allow me to take more credits).

2) I want to transfer to the college of engineering by next fall, and the only way I can do this is if I take physics first, so I would HAVE to take physics during the summer regardless.

One other thing, the other school is not as highly ranked as the school I am currently at.

This is the only prereq that I plan on taking at another school, and my GPA is pretty solid right now (~3.8/3.9). I hope to keep it above a 3.8.

When it comes time for me to apply, would this be something that I should be worried about? Would adcoms look down upon this?

Thanks!

You can easily work this into your PS, describing your deciision to move to the engineering school and the efforts you made (thus explaining summer school) to make that switch. No worries.

 

[incognita]

Hi, I am finishing my sophmore year. I have a good GPA (haven't taken MCATs yet, of course). I am thinking of graduating from college in 3 1/2 years instead of 4 and taking that extra semester between finishing college and starting med school to work or to travel. Do you think that this move will be detremental to my chances of getting admitted? (Alternatively, I could be using that semester to do some voluteer work overseas, would this be a better explanation for med schools as to why I decided to graduate a semester early?).
Thank you in advance for your help.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi, I am finishing my sophmore year. I have a good GPA (haven't taken MCATs yet, of course). I am thinking of graduating from college in 3 1/2 years instead of 4 and taking that extra semester between finishing college and starting med school to work or to travel. Do you think that this move will be detremental to my chances of getting admitted? (Alternatively, I could be using that semester to do some voluteer work overseas, would this be a better explanation for med schools as to why I decided to graduate a semester early?).
Thank you in advance for your help.

If you take the MCAT in the Spring of your Jr year and submit your AMCAS in June, write supplementals in the summer and start interviewing in September, you might have one or more offers of admission by December 31. Then you'd have graduated and would have 6-8 mos. to do as you please until med school begins. No one would really care because you would have interviewed and everything already.

On the other hand, if you don't have any offers by December 31, and you are still going on interviews, you sure won't want to be traveling in Jan-March. Then April begins the second look weekend season.

Schools don't really care if you graduate in <4 years or >4 years. What matters is that you've taken the required courses, that you've studied a variety of subjects (breadth) and taken upper level courses in one or more fields of study (depth). The Jan-May of your senior year is not the best time to go away. Better to plan on doing something from May-August when you'll just want to chill, or, God-forbid, get ready to start on the second cycle of applications.😱

Good luck.

 

[danierrr]

Hi LizzyM,

I'm amazed at the wealth of insider information you're giving out to us pre-meds. I can't thank you enough for being so willing to help us on our journeys to becoming physicians!

I'm re-applying for entry in 2008 after a dismal 2007 season, and I was wondering if you could poke holes in my application and show me where I went wrong. The schools I interviewed at don't give "rejection counselling" until August, which is too late to use to enhance my application for 2008. Seeing as how you're an incredible source of information, I thought I'd ask you.

My MDapplicants profile is here: http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?myid=5839
and should be paint a pretty complete picture of who I am.

Eagerly awaiting your reply,
danierrr

 

[moto_za]

Hi LizzyM,

thanks for the advice you give. I was wondering if it would be frowned upon if I graduate in 5 years? I still have classes to take and have been working part time in college so I have been mostly taking 12-15 credits per semester. Will this be ok when applying or should I just take more classes and get my major done with. One last question, do students have to have a degree completed (BS degree) before starting med school? thanks

 

[Old ortho]

I have a couple questions:

1. When students hold multiple acceptances after May 15, will or can med schools take action against them (e.g. warning, rescind acceptance)?

2. Do you know of any actual instance that a med school actually took action against these students?

Thanks.

 

[ihatescience]

Lizzy,

I was wondering how disadvantaged students were looked upon at your school. Are credentials contextualized to the student's particular situation?

 

[LizzyM]

Lizzy,

I was wondering how disadvantaged students were looked upon at your school. Are credentials contextualized to the student's particular situation?

It is very dependent on the reviewer. All in all, that is a qualitative assessment.

 

[LizzyM]

I have a couple questions:

1. When students hold multiple acceptances after May 15, will or can med schools take action against them (e.g. warning, rescind acceptance)?

2. Do you know of any actual instance that a med school actually took action against these students?

Thanks.

This is a Dean of Admissions/Admissions office (administrative) question rather than something that hinges on a decision by the admissions committee. Once the "offer of admission" letters go out, the admissions process is out of the hands of the adcom at my school.

If you have more than one offer, don't be greedy, don't sit on the fence. Make a decision. Otherwise, you deserve what you get (which may be more than whooppin'.)

 

[LizzyM]

Hi LizzyM,

I'm amazed at the wealth of insider information you're giving out to us pre-meds. I can't thank you enough for being so willing to help us on our journeys to becoming physicians!

I'm re-applying for entry in 2008 after a dismal 2007 season, and I was wondering if you could poke holes in my application and show me where I went wrong. The schools I interviewed at don't give "rejection counselling" until August, which is too late to use to enhance my application for 2008. Seeing as how you're an incredible source of information, I thought I'd ask you.

My MDapplicants profile is here: http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?myid=5839
and should be paint a pretty complete picture of who I am.

Eagerly awaiting your reply,
danierrr

You have 3 waitlists so that means that the game is not over for you yet.

You had a number of post-secondary rejections which, given your gpa & MCAT, makes me think that your written materials (essays) were subpar. Mensan smacks of elitism (although almost all med school applicants could qualify if they wanted to apply) and is superferlous. Some schools will not consider applicants from non-US/Canada schools so everything from Singapore goes out the window. Beliving in the global village & therefore doing H.S. in Pakistan just sounds wacky... come up with a better/more plausible explanation. I think that another question that might be raised would pertain to your knowledge of the practice of medicine in theUS (shadowing docs abroad is not the same as in the US).

 

[NewYorkDoc]

Hello Lizzy, Im considering a combined BA/MA program is psych. Im already staying 5 years to complete two majors. 1. will it look bad to stay six years? also, it says that i wont recieve my bachelors after my senior year but will recieve the combined ba/ma my sixth year. Will I calculate the masters courses into my amcas?

 

[Kikaku21]

Hi-

Quick question. I did not decide to go to medical school until well after college. I have AP credit for Physics and 1/2 of general chemistry. I studied engineering, and had several classes in theoretical and applied mechanics, with lab, etc-- so it seems dumb to retake physics. I took orgo, bio, and biochem at a good postbacc (Northwestern is good, I think, anyway...) and made good grades, so it seems silly to worry about that 1/2 year of gen chem that I APed out of.

Am I right to not worry about this? Or am I overlooking something.

Thanks much!

 

[LizzyM]

Hello Lizzy, Im considering a combined BA/MA program is psych. Im already staying 5 years to complete two majors. 1. will it look bad to stay six years? also, it says that i wont recieve my bachelors after my senior year but will recieve the combined ba/ma my sixth year. Will I calculate the masters courses into my amcas?

Why would taking 6 years to do a double major and an MA look bad?

Yes, the masters courses will show up on your AMCAS application. Again, why should it matter?

If the subject matter interests you and the time involved doesn't deter you then go for it!

 

[LizzyM]

Hi-

Quick question. I did not decide to go to medical school until well after college. I have AP credit for Physics and 1/2 of general chemistry. I studied engineering, and had several classes in theoretical and applied mechanics, with lab, etc-- so it seems dumb to retake physics. I took orgo, bio, and biochem at a good postbacc (Northwestern is good, I think, anyway...) and made good grades, so it seems silly to worry about that 1/2 year of gen chem that I APed out of.

Am I right to not worry about this? Or am I overlooking something.

Thanks much!

Not sure how AP is treated by admissions offices. Call a few & ask or check with a trusted and experienced pre-med advisor.

 

[NewYorkDoc]

Why would taking 6 years to do a double major and an MA look bad?

Yes, the masters courses will show up on your AMCAS application. Again, why should it matter?

If the subject matter interests you and the time involved doesn't deter you then go for it!

Im saying will they be calculated in with the other gpa? or will they be listed alone? such as... all other course gpa (example 3.7) and psych masters portion gpa (3.9)??

 

[LizzyM]

Im saying will they be calculated in with the other gpa? or will they be listed alone? such as... all other course gpa (example 3.7) and psych masters portion gpa (3.9)??

One more time:

AMCAS displays your gpa in a grid that has 7 columns:
year/BCPM gpa/BCPM credits/AO gpa/AO credits/total gpa/total credits
and one row for each academic year. If you take extra time to finish, that gets folded into the senior year. Graduate credits IIRC are shown in a separate row. Grand total undergrad has its own row.

 

[NewYorkDoc]

Sorry for the confusion. I have one more question that may seem odd. Ive been told by my advisor that I may be doing too much e/c's. Im starting three clubs at my college, being founder and president. Does this look like im just trying to do as much as possible to stand out?

 

[e12345r]

Hey ADCOMs! Thanks for the advice and for everything you guys are doing for us Pre-Meds!

I was wondering, is it wise to send a letter of interest to a school I am currently waitlisted in a week before May 15? I havent contacted the school in any way prior to this because I didnt know whether I had a realistic shot at coming of from the waitlist or not, but I guess I just thought that I really have nothing to lose. Its just a shame that it took me two months to realize this. I should also add that I am currently in the top tier of the waitlist at this school, which has a size of ~150 people.

Thanks!

 

[LizzyM]

Hey ADCOMs! Thanks for the advice and for everything you guys are doing for us Pre-Meds!

I was wondering, is it wise to send a letter of interest to a school I am currently waitlisted in a week before May 15? I havent contacted the school in any way prior to this because I didnt know whether I had a realistic shot at coming of from the waitlist or not, but I guess I just thought that I really have nothing to lose. Its just a shame that it took me two months to realize this. I should also add that I am currently in the top tier of the waitlist at this school, which has a size of ~150 people.

Thanks!

It seems that if a waitlist is going to move, it will happen after the dust settles on May 15 and the school has a feeling for how many openings it has after its initial offers have been accepted or declined. Sending a letter now let's the decision makers at the school know that you are still available which is useful information.

 

[LizzyM]

Sorry for the confusion. I have one more question that may seem odd. Ive been told by my advisor that I may be doing too much e/c's. Im starting three clubs at my college, being founder and president. Does this look like im just trying to do as much as possible to stand out?

Founder and president of three clubs?? If you have time for this and still have excellent grades then it might not be a problem. Was there such a dearth of activities at your college that there was a need for all of these new clubs? Who are the other leaders of the clubs? What plans will you make for the continued survival of these clubs beyond your graduation? Are these clubs social/leisure in nature? or academic/pre-professional? service?

 

[North Penguin]

How thoroughly does the committee look at the course listing once they check the students' GPA and where they went to school?

When exactly does the committee start reviewing the submitted materials? AMCAS starts accepting materials early June, and when does the committee meet for the first time to start a new admissions cycle? Early June? Mid June Early July?

How jeopardizing is it to complete AMCAS early July?

Thanks

 

[wake5233]

Hi, I am sure you get this a lot but I am wondering if you could give your brutaly honost opinion on the strength/weakness of my application. I am not a traditional applicant in that I went into public health after undergrad. I knew that my undergrad grades would not cut it at the time.
-MCAT: 30 (11p 10v 9b)
-undergrad overall gpa: 3.21
-undergrad science: 2.98
-Grad GPA: 3.93
-Grad Science: 4.0 (although only for 3 classes)
-lots of volunteering (nursing homes, hospice, ER)
-clinical research volunteer
-Public health research
-lots of shadowing
-working part time during grad school in prevention research
- MPH is in health policy and management, finished first of august

from the end of my junior year and through grad school my grades have remained b/w 3.5 to 4 every semester.

I applied for '07 with only a few grades into my MPH for this coming fall and to only a handful of schools. So far I have made top 1/3 of waitlist at the school that I am at PH for as an out of state applicant. I plan on reapplying this summer as an in-state applicant now to the same school and the other state school. I really want to remain in the region.

thanks for the help

 

[snowy117]

Hello~
I would really like some advice on what my chances are and what I need to improve in order to get into a med school.
Here' my stat:
MCAT: 27Q
UGPA: ~3.4
BCPM: ~3.2

I have plenty of volunteering/shadowing experience and a lot of ECs...
I also took two years off to work at a corporate office to save up some money (I guess this makes me a nontraditional applicant?)

I am planning to do one year MS starting this fall, and if I do well (grad. GPA wise), will that be sufficient to get into a medical school?

Thanks!

 

[LizzyM]

How thoroughly does the committee look at the course listing once they check the students' GPA and where they went to school?

If the gpa is >3.89, it is unlikely that the committee will look at all. Ditto if the gpa is <3.0 (although there are exceptions). Otherwise, if I am devoting 20-30 minutes to an application I will run my finger down the list of courses taken and the grades as well as looking at the table of gpas by year.

When exactly does the committee start reviewing the submitted materials? AMCAS starts accepting materials early June, and when does the committee meet for the first time to start a new admissions cycle? Early June? Mid June Early July?

How jeopardizing is it to complete AMCAS early July?

Thanks

Most schools don't start reading applications until after the secondaries are complete. So, AMCAS sends the applications to the schools in late June or early July, the schools send applicants the secondary (with or without screening). At my school we start reviewing completed applications around August 1, IIRC, and begin issuing interview invitations in late August.

 

[LizzyM]

Folks, there is a "what are my chances" thread stickied nearby. I am just one person at one highly ranked med school and I'd prefer not to answer "what are my chances" queries because it just isn't fair to ya'll.

 

[chickenlittle84]

I am sure it doesn't happen often, but it seems like sometimes even admissions committees at highly ranked schools are willing to consider people with GPAs below 3.5 and so-so MCAT. I was just wondering under what circumstances this may happen - if the person has an outstanding essay, outstanding ECs, great letters of recommendation, difficult life circumstances, etc. It just seems like each school has a handful of exceptions every year and I am just wondering what makes someone an exception. And if and when adcoms admit people with subpar numbers, do they stop to consider the impact that person's GPA will have on their school's average numbers (since this has an impact on rank, etc)?

Thanks!

 

[LizzyM]

I am sure it doesn't happen often, but it seems like sometimes even admissions committees at highly ranked schools are willing to consider people with GPAs below 3.5 and so-so MCAT. I was just wondering under what circumstances this may happen - if the person has an outstanding essay, outstanding ECs, great letters of recommendation, difficult life circumstances, etc. It just seems like each school has a handful of exceptions every year and I am just wondering what makes someone an exception. And if and when adcoms admit people with subpar numbers, do they stop to consider the impact that person's GPA will have on their school's average numbers (since this has an impact on rank, etc)?

Thanks!

I've never heard a discussion of the effect of a low gpa/MCAT on rank. Perhaps the schools that are known as "number ******" have this conversation but not all of us do.

If there is any discussion about a low gpa/MCAT, it is often in the context of "can this candidate make it?" We don't like to admit applicants who are going to struggle and need more than 2 years to complete the basic science coursework.

Often, someone who doesn't have "the numbers" has a compelling LOR, PS, ECs. Let's say that my school's avg gpa is 3.7 and the avg MCAT is 33. In my heart, I know that a person with a 3.4/V9, B10, B10 who had a strong showing in the pre-reqs (A or A- in o-chem & physics) is likely to have enough brainpower to succeed here despite having scores lower than "our average" numbers. If that applicant is out of the ordinary in terms of life-experiences, special skills and the like, the applicant might catch the eye of an adcom member who will make a strong case as to why this applicant is special and should be interviewed/admitted. These applicants can turn out to interview very well and may on that basis jump ahead of the "3.9/37" in the race for an offer. It is not all about the numbers... the minimum numbers and something more can get you an interview but the something more has to be more and more extraordinary the further you are below average with regard to the numbers.

 

[e12345r]

It seems that if a waitlist is going to move, it will happen after the dust settles on May 15 and the school has a feeling for how many openings it has after its initial offers have been accepted or declined. Sending a letter now let's the decision makers at the school know that you are still available which is useful information.

Thanks for your help in my previous post. One additional question: I am not a resident in the state that the medschool is located in, however I have a genuine interest of practicing medicine in the school's state. Is this something worth mentioning in my letter of interest (given that going to medschool there could give me a better idea of how medicine is practiced in the state) or would the AdCom simply think that Im just lying to get my way with the school? I should also add that I did my undergrad in the institution that I am talking about. Thanks again!

 

[LizzyM]

Thanks for your help in my previous post. One additional question: I am not a resident in the state that the medschool is located in, however I have a genuine interest of practicing medicine in the school's state. Is this something worth mentioning in my letter of interest (given that going to medschool there could give me a better idea of how medicine is practiced in the state) or would the AdCom simply think that Im just lying to get my way with the school? I should also add that I did my undergrad in the institution that I am talking about. Thanks again!

You've lived in the state for the four years you went to college, right? So say, "In the four years that I attended ___ College I've come to know some of the people of ____ and I feel "at home" here. (go into a few details about what you love about the state) I hope that I will have the opportunity to study medicine in __insert state name_ and continue on to serve the people of ___ as a family physician, primary care provider, physician, clinician " (whatever noun seems right to you)." If the school is in a large metro area you could narrow it down and focus on how you are attracted to the ___ area and not put the emphasis on the whole state (particularly if it is a large state that you could hardly have gotten to know if you've only lived near your college).

 

[e12345r]

You've lived in the state for the four years you went to college, right? So say, "In the four years that I attended ___ College I've come to know some of the people of ____ and I feel "at home" here. (go into a few details about what you love about the state) I hope that I will have the opportunity to study medicine in __insert state name_ and continue on to serve the people of ___ as a family physician, primary care provider, physician, clinician " (whatever noun seems right to you)." If the school is in a large metro area you could narrow it down and focus on how you are attracted to the ___ area and not put the emphasis on the whole state (particularly if it is a large state that you could hardly have gotten to know if you've only lived near your college).

Whoa! Thanks for the very detailed advice!

 

[10Blade]

Hi Adcoms and LizzyM,

Thank you for the information you provide.

I am in a Master's program but I had to take about 7 undergad course pre-reqs in order to start my grad coursework.

1. Will AMCAS count these grades towards my undergrad GPA(s) or my grad GPA?

2. With med schools knowing about grad school GPA inflations, how will they view that I'm pulling barely a 3.5 GPA in these undergrad courses (original undergrad GPA is 3.3)?

Thank you in advance

 

[majs87]

ok, i've only just finished my freshman yr, but im still freaking out
from what ive gathered, pre-meds need to have some research experience + clinical experience + shadowing doctors + volunteer work/ecs
i dont really get how can u do all that within 3 yrs (if u applying 2 med schools in ur jr. yr, i.e.)
secondly, if ur shadowing a doctor, & helping him out (even if just a wee bit) doesnt that count as "clinical experience" as well?
im planning on
1. shadowing a doctor/getting come clinical experience this summer,
2. & then participating in a research program in the summer of my sophomore yr.
but i also heard of this great program, smdep or something, which is basically an academic-enhancer..so i guess my question really is: what should i go w/ the two summers i have, before i apply to med school? get clincial experience/research work, or go for this smdep program??

 

[chickenlittle84]

Thanks a lot! That explanation was really helpful. I have one more question (last question, I hope, so I can stop thinking about how my app will be perceived and just get on with finishing it).

How might your adcom look at someone with the following grade trend:

Inorganic Chem - Cs both semesters freshman year
Biology - B and C+ sophomore year
Physics - A- and B+ sophomore year
Organic Chem - B+ for two semesters worth of credits taken summer after sophomore year (I studied abroad all of junior year).
Biochemistry - A senior year
Neurobiology - A- senior year
Advanced Biochem of metabolism - A- senior year
Cell Biology - A senior year

To put it in context, a 31S MCAT (12 V, 9 P, 10 B) and non-science major with excellent performance in major coursework after first semester.

This is NOT meant to be a what are my chances question - it is pretty clear that the chances are going to be determined by a lot more than numbers.

I am just hoping to gain some insight about what the conversation within your adcom might sound like. Would the assumption be that this is someone who can't do the work? That they can do the work?

Thanks a lot for all of your sage advice!

 

[LizzyM]

Hi Adcoms and LizzyM,

Thank you for the information you provide.

I am in a Master's program but I had to take about 7 undergad course pre-reqs in order to start my grad coursework.

1. Will AMCAS count these grades towards my undergrad GPA(s) or my grad GPA?

2. With med schools knowing about grad school GPA inflations, how will they view that I'm pulling barely a 3.5 GPA in these undergrad courses (original undergrad GPA is 3.3)?

Thank you in advance

This question is too obscure/difficult to answer adequately. It depends on whether it is very obvious that these are undergrad courses, the school and the major. I have no idea how they will be displayed on the AMCAS application. They may be counted as grad courses.... I don't know.

 

[LizzyM]

ok, i've only just finished my freshman yr, but im still freaking out
from what ive gathered, pre-meds need to have some research experience + clinical experience + shadowing doctors + volunteer work/ecs
i dont really get how can u do all that within 3 yrs (if u applying 2 med schools in ur jr. yr, i.e.)
secondly, if ur shadowing a doctor, & helping him out (even if just a wee bit) doesnt that count as "clinical experience" as well?
im planning on
1. shadowing a doctor/getting come clinical experience this summer,
2. & then participating in a research program in the summer of my sophomore yr.
but i also heard of this great program, smdep or something, which is basically an academic-enhancer..so i guess my question really is: what should i go w/ the two summers i have, before i apply to med school? get clincial experience/research work, or go for this smdep program??

Don't forget that you can do clinical things and research during the school year, too.

Shadowing a doc isn't really a clinical experience. Find a paying job or a volunteer gig where you get to talk to sick people or otherwise interact with "patients". Free clinics, family planning offices, hospice, nursing homes, hospitals, any of these can be a site for clincial experience.

In terms of what to do a year from now, do what interests you. The summer after junior year also matters because this will be fodder for your interview conversations and can be added to your AMCAS application if you submit the day after you begin the activity (so that you can say "June-Present 2009"),

 

[LizzyM]

I am just hoping to gain some insight about what the conversation within your adcom might sound like. Would the assumption be that this is someone who can't do the work? That they can do the work?

Thanks a lot for all of your sage advice!

Every adcom is going to be different and even within adcoms there are different personalities. O-chem not so good, physics a little better. Biology not so good but some pretty good senior year courses in bio courses.

Can we take a student with this MCAT or does it raise the likelihood of poor performance in the first two years?

What do the LORs look like? How well written is the secondary? ECs?