Addressing PE

[Alkaidius]

It won't, but it justifies their action and probably that's what running througj their heads at the moment.

Not really? Entire universities were shut down for a handful of cases in their cities months ago. The situation has not improved.

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[zNoodlez]

Not really? Entire universities were shut down for a handful of cases in their cities months ago. The situation has not improved.

If only those who are in charge can think that way, then we wouldn't have this problem in the first place.

 

[Alkaidius]

If only those who are in charge can think that way, then we wouldn't have this problem in the first place.

I think it’s more likely that the government officials don’t have a clue and NBOME is trying to sneak this under the radar. And the only thing Gimpel is interested in jump-starting is his Porsche.

 

[Chibucks15]

Gonna go out on a limb guys and say that the leaders of these places aren’t exactly gonna prioritize anything related to an exam right now...If anything making a scene will rub them the wrong way because they obviously have their hands full with other priorities given that Chicago and Philly are some of the most violent spots right now

 

[deleted1003403]

I think it’s more likely that the government officials don’t have a clue and NBOME is trying to sneak this under the radar. And the only thing Gimpel is interested in jump-starting is his Porsche.

This... we need to call. They likely have no clue about this exam. And would be opposed if they knew

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

The local government wants to jump start the economy and you all are going to be helping with that when you visit there city for your PE.
The loocal goverment and small business owners want you to come and spend money. Unless there is a second COVID wave, which there might be with all the riots, the local government are not going to do squat when small businesses are hurting. Just saying.

Doubt that there will be any second wave, look at all those gatherings about 10 days ago for Memorial Day on the beaches and pool parties, the % positive rate and hospitalizations have continued to trend down despite that.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Both mayors of Conshohocken and Chicago are Democrats. Also, both governors of Illinois and Pennsylvania are Democrats so I think these government officials will prioritize safety over money. They are anti-Trump and will care about public safety over the economy. The mayor of Conshohocken's office phone number is 610-828-1092. We need to start calling these officials to get their attention about this issue. We got to do whatever it takes to stop the NBOME.

Below is a list of city council members of Conshohocken and their phone numbers. It wouldn't hurt to call them.
1. Colleen Leonard, President
(610) 322-0386
2. Robert Stokley, Senior Member
(610) 636-7230
3. Jane Flanagan, Member
(610) 828-1092 x135
4. Anita Barton, Member
(610) 397-1581
5. Tina Sokolowski, Vice-President
(610) 828-1092 x133
6. James Griffin, Member
(610) 828-4638
7. Karen Tutino, Member
(267) 356-2070

This is a moot point because they aren’t starting to test for another month, both of those states and the entire country will be in phase 3 of reopening of the country by then, which allows gatherings of up to 50 people I believe, most business will be open by then even in those cities including restaurants, many cities in those states have already opened up.. they will leave it up to the nbome to make that decision, just like they will leave it up to individual businesses and restaurants if/when they want to open up.

 

[Chibucks15]

Doubt that there will be any second wave, look at all those gatherings about 10 days ago for Memorial Day on the beaches and pool parties, the % positive rate and hospitalizations have continued to trend down despite that.

Well see. There's a lot of fudging the numbers on both sides of this stupid political debate. Its the worst thing ever that literally anything that happens has to turn political.

You see people in NY claiming that they're attributing every death as a COVID death, and then I saw somewhere Florida's pneumonia death rate went up like 100%+ compared to the same timeframe last year or something crazy, even though their COVID rate was shrinking or steady.

The disease is most definitely real and poses a large threat, but if people can't get out of the ******* political tribalism that this country is going through well never get the true numbers

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Well see. There's a lot of fudging the numbers on both sides of this stupid political debate. Its the worst thing ever that literally anything that happens has to turn political.

You see people in NY claiming that they're attributing every death as a COVID death, and then I saw somewhere Florida's pneumonia death rate went up like 100%+ compared to the same timeframe last year or something crazy, even though their COVID rate was shrinking or steady.

The disease is most definitely real and poses a large threat, but if people can't get out of the ******* political tribalism that this country is going through well never get the true numbers

Yes I agree that the pandemic has been politicized wrongly especially with the counting of deaths etc, but my point being that once things are started to open up(which they have everywhere) it’s going to be very very hard to justify shutting everything down again unless there is a catastrophic rise in cases and deaths that overwhelms the health care system and that has not materialized in the past few weeks despite all the gatherings around Memorial Day.. don’t get me wrong, the NBOME is in the wrong going ahead with the test they should follow the NBME’s lead and cancel the PE, doesn’t make sense to make DO’s take the test when MD’s don’t have to and most likely won’t even be mentioned on ERAS. Just pointing out that the continued opening up of the country and businesses will only fuel the NBOME more to go ahead with this useless test....

 

[Pokedoc]

I'm wondering what the chances are that COCA will lift the requirement for the exam to be required for graduation. Even if they continue forward with exams at least that would get rid of the concern of not being able to match because you weren't ranked due to not having a passing grade because you weren't able to take the exam until late December or later.

 

[Noisewater-TDX]

I'm wondering what the chances are that COCA will lift the requirement for the exam to be required for graduation. Even if they continue forward with exams at least that would get rid of the concern of not being able to match because you weren't ranked due to not having a passing grade because you weren't able to take the exam until late December or later.

Im sure COCA will drop that requirement. Having DOs not match because of that would not look good on them.

 

[Chimapnzee3]

This seems to be getting off-topic. I think there is plenty of epidemiologic evidence already to argue that the NBOME is not acting in the public's best interest by continuing to hold the PE exam.

But since it was brought up, some experts feel a spike from the protests is inevitable. From yesterdays CovidActNow.org digest, for example:

The wave of mass protests across the United States will almost certainly set off new chains of infection for the novel coronavirus, experts say. However, many protesters this weekend were wearing masks, reducing the risk of transmission within their communities.​

(Source: The Protests Will Spread the Coronavirus [Atlantic Article])​

The fact that the protests are outside is also a big difference from the PE exam. We would be in small enclosed spaces, possibly with poor air turnover. It's all about the 3 C's: "crowds, close proximity, and enClosed spaces." The PE exam would expose us to all of three of them, and then we would unnecessarily bring Covid back to the communities where we are rotating.

(As a side note, the Atlantic article has some excellent points about why we can still support the protests as medical professionals despite the expected rebound. While I think that is an incredibly important discussion, I do not feel this is the place to get into that.)

​

 

[Mass Effect]

Maybe even zdoggmd?

Wouldn't waste my time. The only credibility he has these days is with pre-meds and some med students. He's lost the respect of most others.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I'm wondering what the chances are that COCA will lift the requirement for the exam to be required for graduation. Even if they continue forward with exams at least that would get rid of the concern of not being able to match because you weren't ranked due to not having a passing grade because you weren't able to take the exam until late December or later.

I mean, they waived it for the class of 2020. I don't see why they won't for 2021, because they risk over 1,000 DO students (Look at the scheduler on the NBOME website) being left off rank lists by PD's for fear they will fail the PE they couldn't take until Jan or Feb and don't have a score by ROL.

 

[Pokedoc]

I mean, they waived it for the class of 2020. I don't see why they won't for 2021, because they risk over 1,000 DO students (Look at the scheduler on the NBOME website) being left off rank lists by PD's for fear they will fail the PE they couldn't take until Jan or Feb and don't have a score by ROL.

Yeah I don't see how they couldn't, but I've honestly started giving up hope that people will start making the right decision when it comes to this. It would be such an easy solution too. If you get rid of the graduation requirement then PDs won't have any fear of matching a student that isn't graduating. It's that simple. The problem is that they need to make the decision sooner rather than later so that word can get out to all of the different programs. If they make the decision last minute (like in January) it's probably not going to help.

 

[SurgDoc95]

COCA needs to waive it for graduation then it needs to be, along with CS, taken off the application in ERAS and NRMP


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[TXKnight]

COCA needs to waive it for graduation then it needs to be, along with CS, taken off the application in ERAS and NRMP


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This ...it's basically a given COCA will lift the restriction on graduation without a PE. That in itself is not the big issue, however, having ERAS report some DOs have PE done, most don't, and others with a Fail will severely affect having a fair competition for residency spots, mainly with MDs ( larger number) but also amongst us.

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[Scrubs101]

Saw this on reddit, not sure if true but figured id post here.

 

[zNoodlez]

Saw this on reddit, not sure if true but figured id post here. View attachment 308758

They better not call it COMLEX.

 

[Prehealth1011]

Saw this on reddit, not sure if true but figured id post here. View attachment 308758

Looks like Christmas came early for Gimpel.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Would the NBOME really help certify FMGs so that they can be eligible to compete in the match against DO students?

You doubt this? As soon as I read it, I could see it happening. NBOME would love to steal some of the NBMEs money. They would totally go for it. Anyone remember Ross in Knoxville? If there’s money to be made our leadership is always interested.

 

[Giovanotto]

Saw this on reddit, not sure if true but figured id post here. View attachment 308758

hu? How does that even make sense. Can someone explain it to me.

 

[Arodgeisfire]

hu? How does that even make sense. Can someone explain it to me.

It really doesn’t. In order to be eligible for comlex PE you have to be an enrolled US DO student who has successfully passed second year of med school at a DO program and passed comlex level 1

 

[Arodgeisfire]

That being said, Dr. Carmody is an amazing physician and I wish he was higher up the food chain. If physicians somehow ever unionized he’d be my first pick for president

 

[sunshinefl]

Would the NBOME really help certify FMGs so that they can be eligible to compete in the match against DO students?

You doubt this? As soon as I read it, I could see it happening. NBOME would love to steal some of the NBMEs money. They would totally go for it. Anyone remember Ross in Knoxville? If there’s money to be made our leadership is always interested.

This would really piss me off. Not only would it help people get their ECFMG certification, but if NBOME doesn’t have the capacity to test current 4th year DO students, how the heck would the explain accommodating other testers?

It really doesn’t. In order to be eligible for comlex PE you have to be an enrolled US DO student who has successfully passed second year of med school at a DO program and passed comlex level 1

Apparently they only need *a* clinical skills exam. So NBOME could administer it but call it whatever they want.

 

[sumtimesuwonder]

Saw this on reddit, not sure if true but figured id post here. View attachment 308758

They wouldn't have the resources. So many logistical problems under adverse circumstances. They don't even know for sure if they can hit their goal date for restarting of normal testing, let alone let thousands of new students take the test. If this happened they would have to let individual schools administer the PE and then use the testing centers for the IMGs. Not to mention the fact that they don't know OMM, so new standards would have to be placed.

 

[Arodgeisfire]

This would really piss me off. Not only would it help people get their ECFMG certification, but if NBOME doesn’t have the capacity to test current 4th year DO students, how the heck would the explain accommodating other testers?



Apparently they only need *a* clinical skills exam. So NBOME could administer it but call it whatever they want.

I see what you’re saying. In that case, you all are definitely screwed. The nbome cares about one thing: $$$$$$

 

[Noisewater-TDX]

^^ Gimple thinking about all the sweet money he could make off IMGs.

 

[SurgDoc95]

I’m sorry, but if the NBOME does this the AOA/AACOM needs to take immediate action and terminate whatever agreement they have with them. How TF can you justify screwing over all of your DO students like this?! Don’t say money I’m well aware, but at some point something gotta give


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[AnatomyGrey12]

I’m sorry, but if the NBOME does this the AOA/AACOM needs to take immediate action and terminate whatever agreement they have with them. How TF can you justify screwing over all of your DO students like this?! Don’t say money I’m well aware, but at some point something gotta give


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A decision like that would probably be the end of the NBOME. If they think the backlash over PE is bad.....

 

[SurgDoc95]

PE now suspended through September 1. This is turning into an absolute embarrassment for the NBOME. Any good faith and reputation they thought they had built up with their exams is now completely gone. What a joke. Can’t go to in person interviews but y’all can fly here in September-March!


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[Prehealth1011]

PE now suspended through September 1. This is turning into an absolute embarrassment for the NBOME. Any good faith and reputation they thought they had built up with their exams is now completely gone. What a joke. Can’t go to in person interviews but y’all can fly here in September-March!

Just disgusting. I'm running out of words. I hope this means COCA will agree not to have PE as a graduation requirement.

 

[Alkaidius]

Getting panicked shreaks from friends...nevermind Match, how many students won’t have it by graduation now? This has to be the final nail.

 

[Prehealth1011]

I'm too lazy to look it up. When is the rank list due this year and when can we take the PE latest so they have the results?

 

[zNoodlez]

It hasn't been a very good year for DOs

 

[Scrubs101]

Was first week of july, now ill be apart of that feb 2021 crew without a PE for match list submission

Im sick of this BS

 

[deleted859689]

Hopefully won't have a repeat of this for future classes. Reading all this gets me heated. It's like - how hard is it to do the right thing?

 

[zNoodlez]

Hopefully won't have a repeat of this for future classes. Reading all this gets me heated. It's like - how hard is it to do the right thing?

It's hard when money is between you and the right thing.

 

[AiRBagel]

Was first week of july, now ill be apart of that feb 2021 crew without a PE for match list submission

Im sick of this BS

Me too. Just got an email saying my PE on 8/17 has been cancelled. I scheduled my CK at Chicago bc of PE. Can't reschedule CK near my area because no seat until Oct. I am totally sick of this BS.

 

[Scrubs101]

Email from the NBOME said “plenty of spots in early 2021” when i checked minutes after receiving the email all but one jan/feb spot were filled... The nbome has proven themselves incapable of making the right decision, they need to go.

 

[pringlesreturns]

There’s no way this can be a graduation right? Right?!?

 

[qwertythrowaway]

PE testing delayed another 2 months

 

[PorkChopsOG]

Email from the NBOME said “plenty of spots in early 2021” when i checked minutes after receiving the email all but one jan/feb spot were filled... The nbome has proven themselves incapable of making the right decision, they need to go.

It's ok they'll send out an email to you in a few days saying "we've increased spots", but what they'll really mean is they added 3 extra spots in november and by the time you cancel your exam and try to get one of those spots, they'll be filled and then you'll be pushed back even later than your previous date. Ask me how I know.

 

[SurgDoc95]

Email from the NBOME said “plenty of spots in early 2021” when i checked minutes after receiving the email all but one jan/feb spot were filled... The nbome has proven themselves incapable of making the right decision, they need to go.

LMAO I just went from the start of august to late March. Pretty sure any program that requires a PE before ROL is now not ranking me. FUN

 

[AiRBagel]

Email from the NBOME said “plenty of spots in early 2021” when i checked minutes after receiving the email all but one jan/feb spot were filled... The nbome has proven themselves incapable of making the right decision, they need to go.

The thing is before the world is ended, they already didn't have the capacity to accommodate such huge number of students. Now, with all the graduating students who desperately need their score for residency application, they definitely don't have the capacity to accommodate in this short period, yet, they insisted on having students taking that. They should exempt the graduating class for PE just like MD mostly gonna do.

 

[qwertythrowaway]

seriously. this is ridiculous. all these 2 month suspensions are ridiculous. they need to make a firm statement and stop pushing off the inevitable.

 

[qwertythrowaway]

also as one of the unlucky losers who failed the PE pre-covid and now has to apply with a fail and no chance at remediation for months...this SUCKS.

 

[SurgDoc95]

also as one of the unlucky losers who failed the PE pre-covid and now has to apply with a fail and no chance at remediation for months...this SUCKS.

They need to simply take the PE and CS off all applications, both ERAS and NRMP, to even the playing field.

 

[Chimapnzee3]

I also just had my date this summer canceled. I will not have my score until after the Match. I'm happy at least that there is a reasonable chance things will be better controlled by the time I take it. I'm happy that I will not be forced to put lives at risk unnecessarily. However, The idea of "adding in more dates early on as we figure things out" (to paraphrase) could be incredibly disruptive to my clinical education plans. It will already be a really fine balance in terms of being able to get adequate experience this year to be prepared for residency. Making last-minute plans to travel to Philly in the middle of a carefully planned (in accordance with the accountability agreement) visiting student elective does not seem tenable.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

This is amazing. The NBOME has made this the hill they will die on. They aren't going to survive this. I'm actually loving their decisions right now, all we have to do is keep the pressure on them and watch them burn.