Addressing PE

[qwertythrowaway]

This is amazing. The NBOME has made this the hill they will die on. They aren't going to survive this. I'm actually loving their decisions right now, all we have to do is keep the pressure on them and watch them burn.

how do you figure?

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[Scrubs101]

how do you figure?

Because a significant amount of class of 2021 wont have a score for graduation, the med ed community will not allow that (hopefully).

 

[Noisewater-TDX]

I'm just ready for the next wave of 2020 craziness... Anyone have money on Aliens for July?

Can't take comlex PE or match if the world ends.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

how do you figure?

Because for once the med community is actually paying attention, and they look like clowns lol. From some screenshots of Twitter my buddy sent me they are getting blasted on there

 

[Scrubs101]

I'm just ready for the next wave of 2020 craziness... Anyone have money on Aliens for July?

Can't take comlex PE or match if the world ends.

I have meteor strike for July on my bingo board, aliens already happened bro F-16 fighter jet footage of UFOs was released a while back in the year i think

 

[Pokedoc]

Email from the NBOME said “plenty of spots in early 2021” when i checked minutes after receiving the email all but one jan/feb spot were filled... The nbome has proven themselves incapable of making the right decision, they need to go.

Gotta get the quote right. They made sure to say early part of the FIRST HALF of 2021. The meaning of "early" can be relative and gives them plenty of breathing room to protect themselves. I just find it laughable that they even included the part where it says the first half of 2021 like we're going to give a crap about being able to take the exam in May or June when it's a freaking graduation requirement.

 

[popopopop]

So they said pandemic. Was this riot/protest related or pandemic related? During the last web seminar, Gimpel rattled off about how he was confident they're opening up more dates soon lol.

 

[Scrubs101]

Gotta get the quote right. They made sure to say early part of the FIRST HALF of 2021. The meaning of "early" can be relative and gives them plenty of breathing room to protect themselves. I just find it laughable that they even included the part where it says the first half of 2021 like we're going to give a crap about being able to take the exam in May or June when it's a freaking graduation requirement.

you right you right, the nbome as plenty of openings in late april rn.... with an expected score release of june one month after graduation

 

[qwertythrowaway]

even if COCA waives the PE as a graduation requirement, if the NBOME doesn't make an adjustment on the licensure side they are setting themselves up for a huge bottleneck. Instead of a test geared toward 3rd and 4th year med students, now you will be pulling residents away from taking care of *real* patients so they can show their clinical skills on fake patients?

 

[TwistedTea]

Pretty much this, if they do not cancel people will be hurting. We just do not know how bad on a scale to 6-10

DO NOT let these cash hoes win!

 

[Sunde]

This is amazing. The NBOME has made this the hill they will die on. They aren't going to survive this. I'm actually loving their decisions right now, all we have to do is keep the pressure on them and watch them burn.

Totally. And also, all this is doing is making the backlog of testers even larger. Are they completely forgetting that the Class of '22 would typically start taking this thing in "early 2021" as well?

It seems like the only option is to make this test a non-graduation requirement for at least the next two years.

 

[deleted999322]

As someone that got a June PE date cancelled a few weeks ago, this is my reaction to all y'all July/August cancellations trying to find a reschedule date before March 1:

 

[Prehealth1011]

even if COCA waives the PE as a graduation requirement, if the NBOME doesn't make an adjustment on the licensure side they are setting themselves up for a huge bottleneck. Instead of a test geared toward 3rd and 4th year med students, now you will be pulling residents away from taking care of *real* patients so they can show their clinical skills on fake patients?

If PE is waived as graduation requirement, i'll try to take STEP 3 and get my license (which might be possible). I never wanna pay NBOME for another test again after this clusterfk.

 

[Pokedoc]

you right you right, the nbome as plenty of openings in late april rn.... with an expected score release of june one month after graduation

Yup. And we were told recently by our administration that they have heard the turn around time for PE results will be longer than the average this year, which normally takes at least two months already.

 

[12jas]

COMLEX-USA | Level 2-PE — NBOME
So according to their official statement they are shifting the blame on the AOA and the AACOM stating that they are under pressure from these organizations to continue delivering these exams. They also claim to have met with Council of Osteopathic Student Government Presidents (COSGP) are they not advocating for us? Each of these organizations needs to be called out until they release a statement denouncing the safety of holding this test during a pandemic. The level of deceit coming from the NBOME is disgusting. "out of an abundance of safety" B******T your president held a Q&A a few days before saying you were ready to start testing in JULY. The further cancellations were a direct response to our pressure and the negative PR they are receiving. It is time we take this a step forward and demand the immediate resignation of Gimpel. He has proven his total disregard for our safety and shown he is completely incompetent.

 

[Scrubs101]

If PE is waived as graduation requirement, i'll try to take STEP 3 and get my license (which might be possible). I never wanna pay NBOME for another test again after this clusterfk.

+1 if this is possible I will be completing my USMLE series instead of comlex, as one company has shown they deserve my money more than the other. It's probably a pipe dream, but this would be my favorite outcome.

 

[Neopolymath]

Haha.hahahahahahahahaha.hahahahahahahahahahahahajahaha

 

[deleted1003403]

Please keep calling and demanding change. This is so messed up!

 

[Mass Effect]

I think the best bet at this point is to rally ERAS to drop it from the application. NBOME isn't going to listen to reason and it's not right for those who failed to have apply with an F while everyone else on the DO AND MD side gets away without a score.

 

[deleted1003403]

I don’t get how you guys will have enough slots to take the test when podiatry students have philly booked up aug - November almost everyday lol

 

[Alkaidius]

I don’t get how you guys will have enough slots to take the test when podiatry students have philly booked up aug - November almost everyday lol

Are you guys having similar outraged discussions? Because, frankly, if not you should. Having to take a test in a similar location with one medical organization having cancelled and another experiencing severe delays would be strong precedent for y’all to lean on. Our issues are basically neighbors to yours, so if you all bring your own voices into the mix that’s sorta a pincer maneuver right there.

 

[deleted1003403]

Are you guys having similar outraged discussions? Because, frankly, if not you should. Having to take a test in a similar location with one medical organization having cancelled and another experiencing severe delays would be strong precedent for y’all to lean on. Our issues are basically neighbors to yours, so if you all bring your own voices into the mix that’s sorta a pincer maneuver right there.

i’m trying my best to get people aware of the situation. But we have much fewer people (600-700 or so). So organizing is much more difficult and if you think the nbome doesn’t care about you the apmle really doesn’t care about us.

People who are scheduled in august for the apmle cspe haven’t been notified of any cancellations.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Are you guys having similar outraged discussions? Because, frankly, if not you should. Having to take a test in a similar location with one medical organization having cancelled and another experiencing severe delays would be strong precedent for y’all to lean on. Our issues are basically neighbors to yours, so if you all bring your own voices into the mix that’s sorta a pincer maneuver right there.

I'm pretty sure it's the same building? I might be wrong, but I swear someone told me that.

 

[TXKnight]

PE testing delayed another 2 months

I'm speechless, the NBOME keeps PUNTING the test and with it a huge issue: Taking the test one month early or late will NOT matter. If this test is not suspended we will be at a disadvantage from DAY 1 ERAS opens. Not to mention the COVID-19 background issues that we've discussed all along.

 

[TXKnight]

even if COCA waives the PE as a graduation requirement, if the NBOME doesn't make an adjustment on the licensure side they are setting themselves up for a huge bottleneck. Instead of a test geared toward 3rd and 4th year med students, now you will be pulling residents away from taking care of *real* patients so they can show their clinical skills on fake patients?

This, and it now places the onus on all residency programs...why would a program rank any DO that doesn't have a PE by ROL when there are some DOs that do and ALL of MDs that don't need one. Why would a program risk having a PGY1 that may NOT pass PE well into Level3/STEP3 season? This is a nightmare for the logistics of running a program, They know 5% to 8% of their DO residents will be stuck in limbo for failing PE and being unable to go onto PGY2. This is unbelievable.

 

[Arodgeisfire]

Since we are talking about pipe dreams

I wonder if somehow this whole cluster ****, on both sides, can somehow be a catalyst to the merging of degrees

Cherry on top would be closing down of all these bull**** new campuses and new DO schools

 

[qwertythrowaway]

I'm speechless, the NBOME keeps PUNTING the test and with it a huge issue: Taking the test one month early or late will NOT matter. If this test is not suspended we will be at a disadvantage from DAY 1 ERAS opens. Not to mention the COVID-19 background issues that we've discussed all along.

THIS. From DAY 1. None of the DO's in leadership (gimp, greta, Dr. Border, etc) seem to understand the rationale PDs use for the PE in residency selection or how it can be used to triage applicants. It is very likely that applicants this cycle will be applying to more programs than normal and PDs will have less time to sift through a bigger stack of applications. With one button, a PE filter can be applied, and with it go 75% of all DO applications into the trash. Forget being ranked, the filter can be applied and prohibit applicants from even making it to the IV stage. I am in disbelief at how stupid and short-sighted our leadership is being.

 

[Noisewater-TDX]

COMLEX-USA | Level 2-PE — NBOME
So according to their official statement they are shifting the blame on the AOA and the AACOM stating that they are under pressure from these organizations to continue delivering these exams. They also claim to have met with Council of Osteopathic Student Government Presidents (COSGP) are they not advocating for us? Each of these organizations needs to be called out until they release a statement denouncing the safety of holding this test during a pandemic. The level of deceit coming from the NBOME is disgusting. "out of an abundance of safety" B******T your president held a Q&A a few days before saying you were ready to start testing in JULY. The further cancellations were a direct response to our pressure and the negative PR they are receiving. It is time we take this a step forward and demand the immediate resignation of Gimpel. He has proven his total disregard for our safety and shown he is completely incompetent.

To be a part of COSGP you have to be pretty political. I would wager a bet that they are echoing whatever Gimple wants them to.

Since we are talking about pipe dreams

I wonder if somehow this whole cluster ****, on both sides, can somehow be a catalyst to the merging of degrees

Cherry on top would be closing down of all these bull**** new campuses and new DO schools

You dont want new school? Bummer... I got some ideas.
LECOM - Yukon
LECOM - Detroit
LECOM - The Bronx
PCOM - Nuevo Laredo
VCOM - Key West
LECOM - Lunar Base
UNECOM - Underwater Base
LUCOM - Jerusalem
AZCOM - Midway
RVUCOM - Beverly Hills

 

[DrRedstone]

To be a part of COSGP you have to be pretty political. I would wager a bet that they are echoing whatever Gimple wants them to.

You'd lose that bet. I'm on a FB group with several COSGP members who are actively fighting to get the PE cancelled. You should be getting a survey from them so they are armed with better data vs the NBOME.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

You'd lose that bet. I'm on a FB group with several COSGP members who are actively fighting to get the PE cancelled. You should be getting a survey from them so they are armed with better data vs the NBOME.

I don't think the NBOME gives two craps about what the COSGP says unfortunately. I mean, that preliminary survey they did is pretty damn clear how the entire student population feels.... and the NBOME just doesn't care. The real pressure is going to need to come from the AOA, AACOM, schools, or completely outside sources.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

In other news, our dean sent us an official letter that they, and the rest, of administration had written and sent to Gimpel. It was actually amazing. I thought it was going to be some fluff letter with no real substance, but it wasn't, it was about as direct and confrontational as an official letter can get. There was no doubt that the official school stance is that the NBOME is wrong and needs to reconsider.

 

[cookiegrub]

The local government wants to jump start the economy and you all are going to be helping with that when you visit there city for your PE.
The loocal goverment and small business owners want you to come and spend money. Unless there is a second COVID wave, which there might be with all the riots, the local government are not going to do squat when small businesses are hurting. Just saying.

that's right the local economy (as small as Illinois and pennsylvania are) is definitely going to benefit from the couple thousand DOs spending just one hotel night. On top of that, I definitely agree that if even a couple families get sick and god forbid have to be hospitalized, that will definitely still be minuscule to the economic gains for the small time economy of these unknown states. Darn, my 500k student debt is dying to add new life to a drowning economy by drowning myself in more debt. I hope I get my altruism sticker for ERAS...oh wait what's that? altruism means I am not counting dollars but saving lives? That ethics section is definitely not my strong suit.

 

[DrRedstone]

I don't think the NBOME gives two craps about what the COSGP says unfortunately. I mean, that preliminary survey they did is pretty damn clear how the entire student population feels.... and the NBOME just doesn't care. The real pressure is going to need to come from the AOA, AACOM, schools, or completely outside sources.

You forgot Dr. Mike. Bee-whoop

 

[johnpablo85]

In other news, our dean sent us an official letter that they, and the rest, of administration had written and sent to Gimpel. It was actually amazing. I thought it was going to be some fluff letter with no real substance, but it wasn't, it was about as direct and confrontational as an official letter can get. There was no doubt that the official school stance is that the NBOME is wrong and needs to reconsider.

Is it possible to share what was stated so that we could use it to pressure our schools to do something similar?

 

[BeLikeH2O]

Good training for our future, being around sick people.

 

[unknownDO]

In other news, our dean sent us an official letter that they, and the rest, of administration had written and sent to Gimpel. It was actually amazing. I thought it was going to be some fluff letter with no real substance, but it wasn't, it was about as direct and confrontational as an official letter can get. There was no doubt that the official school stance is that the NBOME is wrong and needs to reconsider.

I really hope you are right about the general consensus among schools because my school was the ONLY one
that was opposed to the merger.

 

[call1800doctorb]

I'm pretty sure it's the same building? I might be wrong, but I swear someone told me that.

Same testing center

NBOME National Center for Clinical Skills Testing (NCCST-Philadelphia)
101 West Elm Street
Conshohocken, PA 19428

We’re in this together.

 

[DrRedstone]

I am still baffled as to why COSGP is backing Gimpel.

Simple, they aren't.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Is it possible to share what was stated so that we could use it to pressure our schools to do something similar?

I'm debating posting it. But I don't know if the school would freak out.

Basically it said the NBOME really should only be considering 2 options: Suspend the exam to mid-2021 or allow it to be given at many regional testing sites (I.e. schools). Then it talked about the Coalition recommendations, school's tight policies on rotating and other things, and how students are taught to care about communities and public health. It is heavily implied that the NBOME's decision shows they are NOT caring about those things lol.

 

[cbc86]

Close captions again for webinar with Dr. Gimpel:
View attachment 308888

So... correct me if I am wrong... but did he say something like "I am not sure what that is all about..." in response to the protests?

 

[Noisewater-TDX]

So... correct me if I am wrong... but did he say something like "I am not sure what that is all about..." in response to the protests?

I guess its hard to know the plight of the little folk when you're CEO of a criminal enterprise.

 

[cbc86]

I guess its hard to know the plight of the little folk when you're CEO of a criminal enterprise.

But for real... can you confirm exactly what he said?

 

[Noisewater-TDX]

But for real... can you confirm exactly what he said?

I'll take a look at it later to see if i can pinpoint what he said. Do you know about what time in the video?

 

[deleted999322]

In other news, our dean sent us an official letter that they, and the rest, of administration had written and sent to Gimpel. It was actually amazing. I thought it was going to be some fluff letter with no real substance, but it wasn't, it was about as direct and confrontational as an official letter can get. There was no doubt that the official school stance is that the NBOME is wrong and needs to reconsider.

A student at my school's recent zoom "town hall" asked what our COM's official stance was in regard to the NBOME and PE, and the dean responded that the COM's stance was in line with the NBOME's, and that they fully expect our students to travel starting July 1 for PE (this was held Monday, before the most recent announcement of PE postponed to September).

The cognitive dissonance is strong with my COM's administration: They are okay with us hopping on a plane and flying to Philly or Chicago for PE, but they are not allowing students to travel 15 minutes out-of-state for a visiting rotation. They'd much prefer us to travel 4 hours across the state instead if we wanted to do an away rotation.

Good to see that some COM administrations still have spines and actually care about student and patient health/well-being.

I really hope you are right about the general consensus among schools because my school was the ONLY one
that was opposed to the merger.

I don't mean to out you, but I'm really curious to know which school this is if you're willing to share...

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

A student at my school's recent zoom "town hall" asked what our COM's official stance was in regard to the NBOME and PE, and the dean responded that the COM's stance was in line with the NBOME's, and that they fully expect our students to travel starting July 1 for PE (this was held Monday, before the most recent announcement of PE postponed to September).

The cognitive dissonance is strong with my COM's administration: They are okay with us hopping on a plane and flying to Philly or Chicago for PE, but they are not allowing students to travel 15 minutes out-of-state for a visiting rotation. They'd much prefer us to travel 4 hours across the state instead if we wanted to do an away rotation.

Good to see that some COM administrations still have spines and actually care about student and patient health/well-being.



I don't mean to out you, but I'm really curious to know which school this is if you're willing to share...

Name and shame.

 

[TXKnight]

COSGP released their official survey! Fill out the survey entirely and SPREAD the word in your schools! This is the only "official" opportunity we may have to make it known how we feel:

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[cbc86]

I'll take a look at it later to see if i can pinpoint what he said. Do you know about what time in the video?

No I really cant remember... I was so zoned out during the webinar...

 

[cbc86]

A student at my school's recent zoom "town hall" asked what our COM's official stance was in regard to the NBOME and PE, and the dean responded that the COM's stance was in line with the NBOME's, and that they fully expect our students to travel starting July 1 for PE (this was held Monday, before the most recent announcement of PE postponed to September).

The cognitive dissonance is strong with my COM's administration: They are okay with us hopping on a plane and flying to Philly or Chicago for PE, but they are not allowing students to travel 15 minutes out-of-state for a visiting rotation. They'd much prefer us to travel 4 hours across the state instead if we wanted to do an away rotation.

Good to see that some COM administrations still have spines and actually care about student and patient health/well-being.



I don't mean to out you, but I'm really curious to know which school this is if you're willing to share...

That COM wrote the letter because the students spoke up and took a stand.

 

[StudentDr.A]

That COM wrote the letter because the students spoke up and took a stand.

Can confirm that this is true. Internal polling of our class of 2021 showed around 97-99% of us opposed the PE ( I do not have access to current numbers). Class leadership presented that to administration and they decided it sufficient to warrant a response from them. Even if your COM doesn't agree right now, does not mean they won't change their minds if presented with a united front.

 

[unknownDO]

[QU
[/QUOTE]

That COM wrote the letter because the students spoke up and took a stand.

Are you saying that the COM that sent the letter was the same one with the " the cognitive dissonance"?