Addressing PE

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Noisewater-TDX said:

Article

www.conshohockenpa.gov www.conshohockenpa.gov


Conshohocken PA city commisioners are holding a online meeting tonight at 7pm. It's open to the public. Maybe we can ask questions?
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Will be attending. It's a small city so hopefully there won't be too much noise.
 

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I don't know if we have any hopes to get PE scores blinded if the USMLE will not.

USMLE Score Reporting Policy Updates | CORONAVIRUS RESOURCE CENTER

The following announcements provide details on new score reporting policies set by the USMLE Composite Committee for the Step 1 examination and the Step 2 Clinical Skills (CS) examination.
covid.usmle.org covid.usmle.org
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It would've taken no skin off their backs to blind those scores. The CS/PE can only hurt you. Take it as late as possible, game the system. Minimize the damage if it doesn't go your way. By far my biggest regret has been taking the PE early and now dealing with the fallout.

I'm torn right now. It's bull crap that the NBOME continues to push this test forward. But with the likelihood of scores being blinded essentially nil, I'm now hoping my test date doesn't get cancelled. This whole situation sucks.
 
how's it gonna look if I delayed my test to april? will primary care programs still use it to screen applicants?
 
medstrong said:
how's it gonna look if I delayed my test to april? will primary care programs still use it to screen applicants?
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i just spoke with 2 of my top 3 EM programs. They don't care about PE for applications this year. Very tempted to move my test back past match.
 
Noisewater-TDX said:
i just spoke with 2 of my top 3 EM programs. They don't care about PE for applications this year. Very tempted to move my test back past match.
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very very tempted I am, hope at this point not having pe won't mean much seeing most MD applicants won't have CS
 
this is messed up for step 2 CS. So these students are essentially stuck with board failures for two cycles. What if the vast majority of programs decide to apply fail filters....how is this even just. Essentially giving a free pass to 70-80% of students who chose to procrastinate. Its up to ERAS to not provide the option to filter out based on these exams to level the playing field and thats honestly who we should be going after.
 
ToThePoint333 said:
this is messed up for step 2 CS. So these students are essentially stuck with board failures for two cycles. What if the vast majority of programs decide to apply fail filters....how is this even just. Essentially giving a free pass to 70-80% of students who chose to procrastinate. Its up to ERAS to not provide the option to filter out based on these exams to level the playing field and thats honestly who we should be going after.
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We can't assume that. Some strategically take it late so the results aren't out before ERAS opens in case they fail. Some literally can't take it early because they need to pass the school administered mock CS/PE first whenever it's administered.
 
Prehealth1011 said:
We can't assume that. Some strategically take it late so the results aren't out before ERAS opens in case they fail. Some literally can't take it early because they need to pass the school administered mock CS/PE first whenever it's administered.
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either way they are being given an unfair advantage this cycle as they did not get a chance to sit for it and potentially fail it like those who did. that is a free ride no matter how you want to skin the cat.
 
ToThePoint333 said:
this is messed up for step 2 CS. So these students are essentially stuck with board failures for two cycles. What if the vast majority of programs decide to apply fail filters....how is this even just. Essentially giving a free pass to 70-80% of students who chose to procrastinate. Its up to ERAS to not provide the option to filter out based on these exams to level the playing field and thats honestly who we should be going after.
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In the last few months NBME has shown they can and do change their decisions based on student feedback. If I had a CS failure I sure would raise some hell on social media, etc
 
TXKnight said:
In the last few months NBME has shown they can and do change their decisions based on student feedback. If I had a CS failure I sure would raise some hell on social media, etc
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Im a DO student stuck in a similar position with a failed PE but was hoping the nbme would blind so that would give the nbome much more incentive to do the same
 
ToThePoint333 said:
Im a DO student stuck in a similar position with a failed PE but was hoping the nbme would blind so that would give the nbome much more incentive to do the same
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I hear you, this is totally a crappy development for all of us, and especially sucks for PE failures. We need to keep the course though and see what happens, all this injustice needs to get fixed.
 
Maybe there is still some hope. This crisis has put a great undue burden on MD, DO, and IMG students. Let's help out our MD and IMG brothers and sisters, and show NBME, NBOME, and ECFMG that students stand together!!!!

This guy has 150K followers!

 
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unknownDO said:
Maybe there is still some hope. This crisis has put a great undue burden on MD, DO, and IMG students. Let's help out our MD and IMG brothers and sisters, and show NBME, NBOME, and ECFMG that students stand together!!!!

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Exactly. Adding pressure can only help, it is not only good for all of us, it is the fair things get fixed
 
“Medical education is a scam”....no doubt. It is all bull**** student best interest or advocacy...
 
so.. Dr. Fauci seems to respond to e-mails from the public.. he has literally read students' entire theses and returned thoughtful responses to them. It's a long shot and he obviously is busy doing important work, but it might be worth reaching out to the head honcho?
 
I have an old email for him. Time stamp on it was 2009 but might be worth a shot. -- [email protected]

and then Hugh Auchincloss, M.D.(link is external), Principal Deputy Director. The person right under him.

drplzz said:
so.. Dr. Fauci seems to respond to e-mails from the public.. he has literally read students' entire theses and returned thoughtful responses to them. It's a long shot and he obviously is busy doing important work, but it might be worth reaching out to the head honcho?
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“If you are located in an area of high disease activity, it is strongly encouraged that you reschedule your exam. You are encouraged to exercise appropriate clinical caution with decisions regarding both travel and participation in the exam.” So, like half of us lol?

And they’ve washed their hands of all liability. Moral considerations for public health aside, genuinely wish a PD could chime in on whether it’s smarter to risk the fail biscuit or walk into Match without it.
 
According to a recent webinar, ophthalmology PDs don't usually care if someone doesn't have it yet. Granted, ophtho match is much earlier than ERAS. I think this year many PDs aren't going to care.
 
@gamerEMdoc @NotAProgDirector
hi - can you confirm if we will be screened out for interviews, or not ranked to matched if we do not have the PE? What seems to be the consensus among PDs you are in contact with?

**and if we have a *fail* on the PE, do you recommend we take it this fall?
 
qwertythrowaway said:
@gamerEMdoc @NotAProgDirector
hi - can you confirm if we will be screened out for interviews, or not ranked to matched if we do not have the PE? What seems to be the consensus among PDs you are in contact with?

**and if we have a *fail* on the PE, do you recommend we take it this fall?
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I haven't seen it discussed on the CORD message boards tbh.
 
Noisewater-TDX said:
i just spoke with 2 of my top 3 EM programs. They don't care about PE for applications this year. Very tempted to move my test back past match.
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Really glad to read this, especially as I just registered for PE last night and got May 3rd as the earliest date available.
 
We should report the NBOME to the cook county health department and whatever county the testing center in PA is in
 
I'm convinced the PE will not be held this fall. I firmly believe they are delaying as long as possible, as they have no contingency plan in place.

These are a list of medical specialties with traditionally oral, in-person exams that have either changed their delivery or will not be holding them in 2020.

American board of orthopedic surgery: @ABOSortho ABOS Statements on Coronavirus--Updated 6/2/20 | ABOS

American board of anesthesiology: @AbaPhysicians The American Board of Anesthesiology - Our Plan for the 2021 APPLIED Exams

american board of otolaryngology: @AAOHNS

american board of opthalmology: @aao_ophth

american board of radiology: ABR ABR

American Board of Thoracic Surgery: @ABTS17 Home

American Board of Surgery:

Emergency medicine: @ABEMCert

Postponed
Dermatology: @AADmember

Pending decision in august:
Neurosurgery: @AANSNeurosurg

These are end-stage training exams. Without question, an oral exam for these individuals carries more weight and is more 'protective of the public' than an exam for med students who have many more years of training and supervision to ensure clinical competencies are met. There's no way the PE goes on this fall.
 
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The NBOME will not be backing down. Gimpel is incompetent the only solution I see is for outside organizations to shut them down. But if we look at the AOA meeting a week ago they gave him an award. Our very own COSGP won't even advocate for us. It seems all we can do is wait until one of us gets sick.
 
dabo52 said:
Here is a link to the updated FAQ section on the NBOME website about the PE. It looks like the NBOME does not support blinding the COMLEX Level 2 PE from residency applications and it looks like they have no plan for a 2nd wave of the virus this fall.

Frequently Asked Questions — NBOME

www.nbome.org www.nbome.org
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interesting. looks like they edited the FAQs. they removed the part where they said they don't support blinding of comlex Level 2 PE scores
 
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