Addressing PE

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Dr. Rafiki said:
What is the minimum time before my scheduled PE that I can still cancel and get a refund?
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I'm wondering this too. As stated here before, there is no benefit to taking this exam, only a negative. I'm in December and those August 2021 dates are looking fairly appealing.

I would also like everyone to know that I recorded the AOA HOD meeting discussions about H213.

I will be making a burner YouTube account later today and uploading them. I believe it is important to give props to the docs and students who spoke out for us. As well as bring to light the massive conflicts of interest that some of these delegates disclosed in this meeting.

The AOA blocked recording via Zoom. But where there is a will, there is a way. I'll post the links later on this evening once I get the kiddos to sleep.



EDIT - so... this is how the day is going. My screen recorder descided to record 45 minutes of my web browser instead of the Zoom meeting. Even my computer is in cahoots with the NBOME. So no video. Sorry.
 
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Noisewater-TDX said:
I'm wondering this too. As stated here before, there is no benefit to taking this exam, only a negative. I'm in December and those August 2021 dates are looking fairly appealing.

I would also like everyone to know that I recorded the AOA HOD meeting discussions about H213.

I will be making a burner YouTube account later today and uploading them. I believe it is important to give props to the docs and students who spoke out for us. As well as bring to light the massive conflicts of interest that some of these delegates disclosed in this meeting.

The AOA blocked recording via Zoom. But where there is a will, there is a way. I'll post the links later on this evening once I get the kiddos to sleep.



EDIT - so... this is how the day is going. My screen recorder descided to record 45 minutes of my web browser instead of the Zoom meeting. Even my computer is in cahoots with the NBOME. So no video. Sorry.
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Surely someone recorded it.
 
Very unfortunate, but totally expected. If you have a date before rank lists, you should probably still keep it though because if you're planning to have your residency apps ready for the deadline, then you've already released your NBOME transcript. According to the ERAS application guide, your transcript is not automatically updated, so you have to physically re-release your transcript in order for residency programs to get an updated copy that shows your pass or fail on the PE. If you pass, great, go ahead and re-release the transcript and be glad you're done with it. It may not influence rank list because all scores now come out between Feb 1- Feb 9th for those testing from Nov-Dec. If you don't pass PE, you'll still find out in February and then just sit on your new transcript and don't release the updated one until after match day (only a few weeks).
 
EMTAB said:
Very unfortunate, but totally expected. If you have a date before rank lists, you should probably still keep it though because if you're planning to have your residency apps ready for the deadline, then you've already released your NBOME transcript. According to the ERAS application guide, your transcript is not automatically updated, so you have to physically re-release your transcript in order for residency programs to get an updated copy that shows your pass or fail on the PE. If you pass, great, go ahead and re-release the transcript and be glad you're done with it. It may not influence rank list because all scores now come out between Feb 1- Feb 9th for those testing from Nov-Dec. If you don't pass PE, you'll still find out in February and then just sit on your new transcript and don't release the updated one until after match day (only a few weeks).
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This is a terrbile idea. Lying by omission. That will be a great look for your new residency.
 
If they don't see a score, they already assume you have to take it, and have decided to rank you.

Edit: This was postulated by our GME office and a local residency. They assume you have to take it, and are already prepared to have you take the time to go get it done during residency. Taking it and having a passing score is simply a nice surprise. Taking it and not passing it, simply maintains the status quo.
 
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I wonder if it constantly feels like you are working on a sinking ship if you reside at the NBOME?
 
Prehealth1011 said:
Making my ERAS program list.

For those who plan to skip PE and go straight to step 3, should we avoid applying to states like PA, FL where PE is required?

Stupid question but i'm not sure how this works. Can i do my residency in PA, but skip getting the PA license and just get the NY license instead? Or do residency programs expect you get licensed in the state it's in?
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You apply for a license for the state you will be working in. So if you match at Penn State for example, you will have to have a PA license.
 
Noisewater-TDX said:
H213 got defeated in the AOA house of delegates just now.

Seems like a good portion of the delegates are on the boards of the aacom, coca, and nbome (per there own words).

It didn't stand a chance. But the cosgp and several docs tried to get it passed.
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What does this mean
 
You shall know the Truth said:
What does this mean
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Everything stays the same. The AOA failed to pass a resolution that would've scolded the NBOME for their actions. They also knocked down an amendment that would support a virtual clinical exam. One of the delegates stated that this was just an attempt by students to get out of the exam that they have advocated against for years - he has to have been in his 60s. So i doubt he took COMLEX 2PE... The hypocrisy runs pretty deep in that org. It was freaking painful to sit through it.
 
Noisewater-TDX said:
View attachment 320489

I wonder if it constantly feels like you are working on a sinking ship if you reside at the NBOME?
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Except we have proof that they were telling schools this week that quarantine guidelines wouldn't be enforced for us since we "wouldn't be there for that long". Multiple students on Twitter in response to this are saying they were told to ignore Chicago's quarantine guidelines either by their school or the NBOME directly. What in the **** kind of organization is this? I really don't think my opinion of the NBOME could get any lower than it is right now.
 
Noisewater-TDX said:
Everything stays the same. The AOA failed to pass a resolution that would've scolded the NBOME for their actions. They also knocked down an amendment that would support a virtual clinical exam. One of the delegates stated that this was just an attempt by students to get out of the exam that they have advocated against for years - he has to have been in his 60s. So i doubt he took COMLEX 2PE... The hypocrisy runs pretty deep in that org. It was freaking painful to sit through it.
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This is literally the problem. These organizations are run by ancient DOs who have their heads so far up their butts they don’t even realize AT Still is dead.
 
I heard directly from a PDs mouth today that "a student with a passing PE score will be ranked higher than a student with no score, even an MD student with no CS score, if their apps are otherwise similar."
 
morningmedicine said:
Just a heads up- tons more dates opened-up in November 2020 and the Spring of 2021 in both Chicago and Philly. Not sure what this means for resuming testing...
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This is interesting.... so they want more of Us traveling through the quarantine Zone at a faster rate. Somehow they continue to elevate to new levels if stupid that I did not know existed
 
cbc86 said:
People are cancelling.
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I think so... now that they realize that taking the test can literally only do bad things for them. It’s the only logical decision. Unless forced by your school
 
hawthorn9797 said:
I think so... now that they realize that taking the test can literally only do bad things for them. It’s the only logical decision. Unless forced by your school
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I don’t doubt some people cancelled, but the nbome has added additional test dates. I also think it’s messed up that they haven’t limited test day capacity. Businesses can’t send 100% of their workforce back into the office at one time, but we are still testing at 100% capacity for the PE.

also. Jesus. Allowing everybody to take their masks off to write notes negates the purpose of wearing the mask in the first place. I feel pressure to move my test date up. But I also don’t want to be a guinea pig.
 
No these are new dates for at least some of them. There are slots open on days that did not even have slots before. Seriously the NBOME continues to sink to new lows. I hope our generation never forgets what they have done to us and brings them down.
 
Dr. Rafiki said:
Family Medicine
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Not surprising about this.

It has been a well known secret that med students with solid board scores have high chances of going to SOAP if you don't have a passing PE by the time that FM rank lists are finalized. It's also one of the few specialties that will penalize you for failing the PE in the first round, with a passing score in the second time. The only other notable specialty is Psych.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
They can graduate without a passing PE, but do you really think your school will graduate you with failed PE?
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While I think it is highly illogical for a school to not allow someone to graduate because of a failed PE and inability to schedule a retake in time, I could not shake your words lol. I have seen my admin do crazy **** to us and have developed a healthy amount of distrust. Decided today to reschedule my date to April so that scores wont be back before graduation but I won't have to take it during residency. I have given up on trying to get a date prior to match since I would be facing an entire month of quarantine so I feel like this option is a decent balance.
 
CocoMelon0531 said:
Not surprising about this.

It has been a well known secret that med students with solid board scores have high chances of going to SOAP if you don't have a passing PE by the time that FM rank lists are finalized. It's also one of the few specialties that will penalize you for failing the PE in the first round, with a passing score in the second time. The only other notable specialty is Psych.
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Is there any reason for this? The only thing I can think of is that there's a confounding variable at play here. As in, perhaps FM was a second/third choice for these high score applicants, and the interviewers sensed that...

Otherwise that's asinine and doesn't make sense to me. There's no reason why someone genuinely interested in FM with a high score wouldn't match, but maybe I'm wrong?
 
The new dates they added are just the 2 weeks that they had blank before. The NBOME took 2 weeks in November off. There are no new dates outside of those.
 
morningmedicine said:
Is there any reason for this? The only thing I can think of is that there's a confounding variable at play here. As in, perhaps FM was a second/third choice for these high score applicants, and the interviewers sensed that...

Otherwise that's asinine and doesn't make sense to me. There's no reason why someone genuinely interested in FM with a high score wouldn't match, but maybe I'm wrong?
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I have heard residents in FM and community IM say that someone who fails the PE must have some extreme personality defect. It’s absolutely BS.
 
Ho0v-man said:
I have heard residents in FM and community IM say that someone who fails the PE must have some extreme personality defect. It’s absolutely BS.
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Oh I see, I think I misunderstood you. You're saying that FM applicants with high scores and a failed PE have trouble matching, not necessarily just people with high scores in general (and presumably have passed the PE on a first attempt).
 
morningmedicine said:
Oh I see, I think I misunderstood you. You're saying that FM applicants with high scores and a failed PE have trouble matching, not necessarily just people with high scores in general (and presumably have passed the PE on a first attempt).
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Correct. FM/IM/psych, for whatever reason, penalize heavily for a failed PE. At the IM program where I did my core rotations, they’ll consider applicants with other board failures but will not consider applicants with a PE failure.
 
Dr. Rafiki said:
Well, I flung my banner to the wind today and moved my November date to an April date. Let's hope it doesn't backfire on me lol
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I hope all of us move our dates. I know they are hoping students just ignore quarantine rules and schedule anyways. If we can make it so that they sit empty in November imagine how satisfying that would be.
 
12jas said:
I hope all of us move our dates. I know they are hoping students just ignore quarantine rules and schedule anyways. If we can make it so that they sit empty in November imagine how satisfying that would be.
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If we killed their cash flow they would crumble. If we could get everyone to boycott it we would win. That’s what I don’t think people realize, the students truly hold the power here. But good luck getting 7 thousand neurotic med students to boycott a board exam lmao
 
I would never wish harm on anyone else or their health but god it would be satisfying to watch the NBOME go down in flames because they caused a COVID 19 outbreak due to the PE. If I ever happen to meet Gimpel in person I’m going to tell him what a piece of human garbage I think he is right to his face.
 
Ho0v-man said:
Correct. FM/IM/psych, for whatever reason, penalize heavily for a failed PE. At the IM program where I did my core rotations, they’ll consider applicants with other board failures but will not consider applicants with a PE failure.
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This is true generally speaking, I've heard it from several ppl and some PDs as well. Especially true in places where the PD is old school, for some reason they hold that in higher regard. At the end of the day, there's PLENTY of residencies where PE failure (s) won't automatically disqualify you from interview
 
hawthorn9797 said:
If we killed their cash flow they would crumble. If we could get everyone to boycott it we would win. That’s what I don’t think people realize, the students truly hold the power here. But good luck getting 7 thousand neurotic med students to boycott a board exam lmao
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it would be helpful to know what percent of current DO students have taken and passed USMLE Step 1 + 2CK and plan to use the usmle as a viable route to licensure. take that group and multiply it by the cost of the PE + Level 3.

i'm not sure the # of DO's aware of this pathway + who have passed both steps outweighs the number of comlex only (or applicants who only took one usmle exam).
 
Dr. Rafiki said:
I heard directly from a PDs mouth today that "a student with a passing PE score will be ranked higher than a student with no score, even an MD student with no CS score, if their apps are otherwise similar."
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Their apps wont be similar b/c it will have JHU, Columbia, Stanford, Penn, NYU, and many top MD programs on it. LOL
 
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Ho0v-man said:
Correct. FM/IM/psych, for whatever reason, penalize heavily for a failed PE. At the IM program where I did my core rotations, they’ll consider applicants with other board failures but will not consider applicants with a PE failure.
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Yeah, that's most psych programs
 
MDGunner said:
Their apps wont be similar b/c it will have JHU, Columbia, Stanford, Penn, NYU, and many top MD programs on it. LOL
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OP literally said if their apps were similar. Implying they are probably not coming from top MD school. Glad a first-year MD student came all the way to our PE DO thread to point that out though. Good job. Would have been a shame if someone didn't understand this.
 
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