Adjusting the "magic number" of interviews

[da8s0859q]

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Slightly nerdy thread. You've been warned!

Going by the Charting Outcomes report, ranking nine programs gives US senior EM applicants a ~95% chance of matching.

In 2011, EM's average matched Step 1 was 223; Step 2, 234. The NRMP's last PD survey says that 64% of programs consider an away at that particular institution as a factor to offer an interview, and 59% of programs consider an away at any institution as a factor to interview. Those two things were given a 3.9 and 3.8 on the survey's 5-point scale of importance when it comes to ranking.

By comparison: EM clerkship grade, 4.8; SLORs, 4.7; other clerkship grades, 4.1. Obviously interview day stuff was all >4.5. Step 1 and Step 2 were 3.8.

So what I'm wondering is this: I have an above average Step 1 (>240), a pending Step 2, a 50/50 split of our version of HPs/Hs in M3, mostly solid m3 eval comments, and did pretty well in my home EM rotation. Planning on a rotation SLOR and an second individual SLOR from home. But for a variety of reasons, I might not (be able to) do an away rotation.

If it were you, would you feel obligated to apply/interview a little more broadly?

 

[Dane07MD]

You didn't tell us how broadly you are applying to begin with.

Nonetheless, the lack of an away won't be necessarily hurt you. Just let them know when they ask why you didn't do one (they WILL ask). If your excuse is legit, nothing to worry about. Your scores and grades are great. If your letters are good to very good, you'll have a very strong app. It's not Urology, so don't worry too much. A 240 is pretty damn high for EM.. just remember that what you see on this website is skewed toward the neurotic 240-250s who are concerned they won't match.

 

[da8s0859q]

You didn't tell us how broadly you are applying to begin with.

Nonetheless, the lack of an away won't be necessarily hurt you. Just let them know when they ask why you didn't do one (they WILL ask). If your excuse is legit, nothing to worry about. Your scores and grades are great. If your letters are good to very good, you'll have a very strong app. It's not Urology, so don't worry too much. A 240 is pretty damn high for EM.. just remember that what you see on this website is skewed toward the neurotic 240-250s who are concerned they won't match.

Thanks for the input. I was planning on applying to ~30 programs.

 

[Dane07MD]

That's plenty. Pick 24 you think you want to go to, or at least investigate. Pick 6 that are in less desirable locations that you could tolerate and wouldn't be super competitive. Pick and choose your interviews how you wish. Shoot for 10 or 11 interviews, 12-14 if you choose not to interview at any safety programs.

 

[EM_Rebuilder]

Does your home program have an EM residency?

If so, with your scores and a good grade at that rotation, I dont think you will be asked about it..

If you DO NOT have an EM program at your home spot, I would really urge you to do an away rotation. You will still likely match purely by statistics, but more than one person is going to ask "So, have you ever actually worked in an academic ED?"... and thats a hard one to answer appropiately...

 

[JacobMcCandles]

I came from a place with an EM residency and I didn't do an away. I was never asked about it and you have a better application than I did.

 

[da8s0859q]

Thanks guys. There is an EM residency at my home institution, a large academic center -- I rotated through there.

 

[FSU2013]

Don't want to take over the thread, but it sounds like the OP has his question answered......

So, I decided that I want to do EM this month (I'm on EM right now). Unlike the OP my program does NOT have an EM residency. My stats are great; Step 1/2 are >240/>260, respectively; Preclinical GPA: >3.9; Third year: All H except our "longitudinal primary care" clerkship; Nominated AOA - pending results; 3 EM rec letters (my 2 attendings from my rotation and the clerkship director), that should all be in by Sept 15 and all of which should be "outstanding" letters; CD will be a SLOR (he said he has always written them for our students and, in the past, they were always well received).

I sat down with the EM CD to talk to him about my decision. He seemed to be of the opinion that not doing an externship, in spite of the fact that we don't have an EM residency, will not hurt me given my numbers. He told me to anticipate getting an interview from almost every place I apply (he said there is some randomness, so don't be surprised by a few rejections). He told me 15 would be plenty. I plan on applying to almost all residencies in FL, GA, NC, SC, VA, TN - that's 18ish. He told me that if I honestly explain that I thought I was going to go into another field, then "saw the light" (his words, not mine), PDs will understand. Should I start looking for an externship? I imagine that it would be difficult to find a program where I can find an externship and get a SLOR back in time to be of any use. Do I need to apply to more programs? Would it be worth doing an externship if it were in November? I was thinking that it probably wouldn't hurt to add a half dozen or so more, but I was curious about other peoples' thoughts. Thanks.

tl;dnr - great stats, no externship, no home EM program - applying SE; how many? looking for someone to calm the neuroses that come with residency applications. ty.

 

[JacobMcCandles]

FSU: While your CD may be able to speak for some PDs, he can't speak for all of them. You have a great application so someone is going to take you if you put out enough lines. It's on you to put out those lines. Will you get most of your picks of interviews? Probably, but why chance it. Always err on the side of overapplying. It's the cheapest and best investment you'll ever make.

 

[sylvanthus]

Wow, I must be paranoid, I have decent stats similiar to the above applicants and I intend to shoot out a good 70-80 applications to make certain I match.

 

[RPedigo]

Don't want to take over the thread, but it sounds like the OP has his question answered......

So, I decided that I want to do EM this month (I'm on EM right now). Unlike the OP my program does NOT have an EM residency. My stats are great; Step 1/2 are >240/>260, respectively; Preclinical GPA: >3.9; Third year: All H except our "longitudinal primary care" clerkship; Nominated AOA - pending results; 3 EM rec letters (my 2 attendings from my rotation and the clerkship director), that should all be in by Sept 15 and all of which should be "outstanding" letters; CD will be a SLOR (he said he has always written them for our students and, in the past, they were always well received).

I had similar stats to you (Step 1 255, Step 2 275, AOA, mostly honors), was couples matching, applied pretty much only in California, and got all the interviews I wanted except one. Went on about 9 or 10 interviews total. Ended up matching at our mutual #1. I wouldn't sweat it, it seems like you'll have your choice of wherever you want to go. I would agree that 15 would be plenty if you didn't just apply to Vandy, Denver, Cinci, Carolinas, Harbor, Highland, etc. and had some diversity to your application because there's some randomness to the process. Good luck!

 

[da8s0859q]

I had similar stats to you (Step 1 255, Step 2 275, AOA, mostly honors), was couples matching, applied pretty much only in California, and got all the interviews I wanted except one. Went on about 9 or 10 interviews total. Ended up matching at our mutual #1. I wouldn't sweat it, it seems like you'll have your choice of wherever you want to go. I would agree that 15 would be plenty if you didn't just apply to Vandy, Denver, Cinci, Carolinas, Harbor, Highland, etc. and had some diversity to your application because there's some randomness to the process. Good luck!

Whoa, you rocked med school. Curious -- did you do any aways?

 

[RPedigo]

Whoa, you rocked med school. Curious -- did you do any aways?

I did not do any aways. I had considered it, but both my home rotations (UCLA/OVMC and Harbor-UCLA) offered the experiences I wanted to have (academic and county). I was considering doing an away at Highland but many of my friends did, so I just went off of their opinion instead.

 

[RoyBasch]

Nonetheless, the lack of an away won't be necessarily hurt you. Just let them know when they ask why you didn't do one (they WILL ask). If your excuse is legit, nothing to worry about.

What is/are legit vs illegitimate reasons for not doing an away rotation, assuming you did one home rotation in EM?

 

[JacobMcCandles]

What is/are legit vs illegitimate reasons for not doing an away rotation, assuming you did one home rotation in EM?

Use whatever reason you didn't do an away. Don't make one up because you think or were told it's a legitimate reason.