Advice: 3.33 / 3.70: SMP or undergrad post-bac

[approx]

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My question is, given a 2006 cGPA (BA, Government, from CSU Sacramento) of 3.33, should I do a post-bac undergrad program, or an SMP?

Currently working on science and math prerequisites at Pasadena City College (PCC), and having finished 2/3 of the biology series at UCLA Extension (though planning to retake the Biology series at PCC for the rigor and quality of instruction), I expect my science GPA to be around 3.70 and for it to boost undergrad cGPA to around 3.50 by the time I apply to med school and post-bacs in summer 2014.

(I am 'non-traditional' student. I have been an EMT for almost three years, and have volunteered at hospitals for more than a year, with rotations in the ER, OR, and GI Lab. CNA certified, critical care and ALS transport experience on the field, ECG/pharmacology basic course completed. No recent ECs other than surviving on $9/hr as a full-time EMT while taking the science prerequisites. Most recent math and science GPA, projected for the end of this semester: 3.83. The '3.70' in the title is a worst-case sGPA, in case I get a B in OChem, Physics, or my retake of Bio.)

In conversations with my friend, who is also applying to med school, I became slightly more doubtful about my particular path, which is why I'm here asking for advice. To make this post more riveting, here's a bit of our conversation:

Is there a reason why you're not doing a post bacc program? I think that would suit you well. Is there a reason why you want a one years MS over a one year post bacc?

My reasons are:

1) Grants a master's degree that I can possibly use to get a job (research?) while waiting for my MD apps to go through, instead of working minimum wage as an EMT
2) In the same vein, advanced my credentials
3) Learn more by taking more advanced courses. And if a post-bac covers the same content as a master's program, why would I opt for a certificate and not the graduate degree?

If you mean a post-bac SMP, that is what I've been considering. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=640302

I've been looking at SMPs listed on that webpage, exclusively, although I'm not (should I be?) closed to doing a traditional MS degree. But since most traditional graduate programs are two years, I am effectively closed to them for expedience's sake.

Am I missing something? Why should I do a (certificate-granting) post-bac instead of a one-year SMP?

I was referring to those which increase your GPA. All those reasons are valid for wanting an MS but just keep in mind that some med schools will automatically exclude apps if the minimum GPA isn't there. If you don't have that problem (ie perhaps you have a solid GPA or get enough of a boost with the courses you're taking now) then I would say go for the MS. Otherwise, I'd encourage you to look into a post bacc to boost your GPA and get it to at minimum, a 3.0

I'm not worried about acceptance to an SMP or post-bacc, but rather, given my (anticipated) undergrad GPA of 3.50, what is the better route to acceptance to med school?

Do I:

1) Boost my undergrad GPA; or,
2) Start a graduate program?

Having written this down, I cannot see any downsides to opting for the SMP route, whereas doing an undergrad post-bac will hardly boost my cGPA, which is, effectively, being weighed down by the sheer bulk of units I've taken since 1998. A graduate program, on the other hand, will presumably make more apparent my turning over a new leaf, my dedication to this path, any academic improvements, and my fitness for the sciences.

I feel I want to retract this post because I feel more settled into my decision to opt for an SMP, but since I've written it already, I'd love to hear some SDN feedback.

Many thanks!

 

[DrMidlife]

Cumulative 3.5, science 3.7? This is not a GPA repair situation, so it's not an SMP situation. SMPs are for low GPA students who are willing to shell out $50k+ for another chance. That's not you.

The thing you and your friend aren't comprehending is that cumulative is cumulative, and all the classes you're taking now are a postbac. That 3.33 is never shown anywhere on your med school apps. The classes you're taking now will all get piled into a "postbaccalaureate" line on your app.

It looks good to have better grades in a recent whack at science than in your earlier whack at liberal arts. Science is supposed to be harder.

Your fate will be your MCAT and your ability to market yourself in apps. Get an above average MCAT, apply early, apply broadly, and be realistic about UCs. If you have your heart set on a UC, then personally I'd recommend a traditional masters with pubs.

(Meanwhile, I went to CSUS in '84, and PCC in '88. Do they still teach math in the observatory? Is Dr. Eaton still around? We actually learned how to use slide rules back then.)

[Edit: please understand that outside the greater LA area, nobody knows or cares that PCC is across the street from Cal Tech. It's just a CC to most med schools, whereas UCLA is a brand name. Prioritize accordingly.]

Best of luck to you.

 

[approx]

Cumulative 3.5, science 3.7? This is not a GPA repair situation, so it's not an SMP situation. SMPs are for low GPA students who are willing to shell out $50k+ for another chance. That's not you.

The thing you and your friend aren't comprehending is that cumulative is cumulative, and all the classes you're taking now are a postbac. That 3.33 is never shown anywhere on your med school apps. The classes you're taking now will all get piled into a "postbaccalaureate" line on your app.

It looks good to have better grades in a recent whack at science than in your earlier whack at liberal arts. Science is supposed to be harder.

Your fate will be your MCAT and your ability to market yourself in apps. Get an above average MCAT, apply early, apply broadly, and be realistic about UCs. If you have your heart set on a UC, then personally I'd recommend a traditional masters with pubs.

(Meanwhile, I went to CSUS in '84, and PCC in '88. Do they still teach math in the observatory? Is Dr. Eaton still around? We actually learned how to use slide rules back then.)

[Edit: please understand that outside the greater LA area, nobody knows or cares that PCC is across the street from Cal Tech. It's just a CC to most med schools, whereas UCLA is a brand name. Prioritize accordingly.]

Best of luck to you.

OMG DrMidLife! I LOVE YOU. I haven't even read your response but... yes, I love you. So glad you're in med school!!!!

So ahem...

I will respond to everything in time. Let me just say that a lot of things have changed at PCC. Amazing things. First of all, my math class is being held, I assume temporarily, in the GM building -- the GYM. Where the athletes are. The former southeast parking lot is now the "Science Village", which I adore. It just shows that PCC is prioritizing STEM. It's a concrete lot of 'trailers' but they're good trailers. 🙂 I don't know Dr. Eaton, sorry. What does he/she teach? And yes, the great thing about PCC is that they actually TEACH you. UCLA Extension was not good, in my opinion, and what's really sad is that it doesn't even differ from UCLA proper: I've spoken with students taking LS 1 and LS 2, which I took there, and I've seen their notes; they have no lab to speak of, no tactile integration, no research.

You're right, I didn't know that any literally post-bac courses would be filed under 'post-baccalaureate'. Is that a hard and fast rule for all or most med school adcoms? I thought the categories were 'undergraduate' and 'graduate'.

I'm not set on UCs at all. Trying to get out of California, actually, especially LA. By 'masters with pubs'... what do you mean? Public health? Publications?

I totally understand about UCLA name recognition, but given 1) the cost ($555 a class, $120 parking) and 2) the abysmal instruction, I can't afford to go to UCLA Extension. If I get a 42 on my MCAT (just saying), it'll be because of PCC. And so I'm reminded of one of the biggest reasons I'm wanting to do an SMP: because I fear that my completing science prerequisites at PCC will be a blot on my med school app, and for which a year at a rigorous SMP (USF MSMS hopefully) will be vindication for me -- and PCC. (Go Lancers!)