Advice for disclosing DUI on pre-doctoral internship apps (APPIC)?

[PHDtobe_]

Hey y'all. I asked about this a few years ago when it happened but its now time to actually address this in my internship process. I'm at the question that asks if I've been convicted of any crime and to elaborate so here's my story and I'm looking for any advice on how to address this in my application... I've used this post as kind of a very very rough draft of how i'll address this, touching on the main points that I'll dive deeper into, so I would love direct feedback on any of that and anything else I should or shouldnt include. Thank you all in advance!!!!

In feb 2021, I had a few cocktails while out with friends. I intentionally stopped drinking around 11:30 and felt like I was fine to drive and that most of it shouldve been out of my system when everyone was leaving around 2:30 AM. I was pulled over for driving slightly over the white line when exiting the freeway. The officer stated that he smelled alcohol on my breath and asked me to step out of the car, complete the roadside sobriety tests, and blow into the breathalyzer. My BAC registered at a .10 (legal limit in my state is .08), so I was arrested and ultimately convicted in May 2022 (yes, the courts took forever). I was sentenced to 1 year of probation with the requirements of random alcohol/drug testing every week, monthly meetings with my probation officer, completing an 8 hour alcohol and driving course, attending a Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) seminar, and 40 hours of community service. I completed all requirements and was in good standing, so I was granted early termination of probation. Immediately after this happened, I met with a substance abuse counselor and completed an assessment, and he reported that he did not believe that I had a substance abuse problem (adding this here in case it would be helpful to mention that i took this step but im aware this might not hold any credibility since we all know the results are based on info I self-reported...thoughts?)

At the time, I was a social drinker at least 1-2x per month having 3-4 drinks each time, but since then I've drank 2-3 times per year mainly on special occasions having no more than 2 drinks and never driving after. At the time, I was also ignorant regarding the process/timing of themetabolization of alcohol , I genuinely thought it would mostly be out of my system by that time. however, I recognize that the problem is that I impulsively drove period knowing I consumed multiple drinks thinking that I was "fine" without considering that my judgement of how I felt was also likely impaired and that I was putting the public and myself in danger. This experience ultimately catapulted a deeper reflection of my personal and professional values and how regular consumption of alcohol did not align with those. It also really opened my eyes to how normalized binge drinking is in our society and that I was blindly following those norms...

I am grateful beyond words that I did not hurt or kill anyone else, that the consequences I have to deal with on my own did not ruin anyone else's life. This mistake possibly ruining my career made me realize how much I value that work I do, the reason I am in the field of psychology to promote resilience, growth, insight, support in people, to help people face the battles and obstacles in their journey, to educate and spread awareness. I debated if it was even worth continuing in my program and if I'd be able to match with an internship, but I did not allow this to interfere with my passion and goals, my progress and quality of work throughout my time in the program, and the care I was providing to my clients.

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[MCParent]

Were you convicted of a misdemeanor or felony?

 

[spacegiraffe]

Just a suggestion, the line in your first paragraph about just driving slightly over the white line sounds a bit minimizing of the incident. I would remove that. I think the rest of what you have is good and that it’s important to take full responsibility and acknowledge the steps you’ve taken to ensure it won’t happen again, which it sounds like you have. Best of luck, that’s a crappy thing to deal with during internship applications and I hope internship committees will be understanding.

 

[PHDtobe_]

Were you convicted of a misdemeanor or felony?

it was a misdemeanor

 

[PHDtobe_]

Just a suggestion, the line in your first paragraph about just driving slightly over the white line sounds a bit minimizing of the incident. I would remove that. I think the rest of what you have is good and that it’s important to take full responsibility and acknowledge the steps you’ve taken to ensure it won’t happen again, which it sounds like you have. Best of luck, that’s a crappy thing to deal with during internship applications and I hope internship committees will be understanding.

thank you for your feedback! I hope so too

 

[WisNeuro]

Own it. Don't try to explain it away. If the rest of your application is good, won't matter at many sites. If your application is "meh," may push you out of the interview group.

 

[MCParent]

it was a misdemeanor

I thought you only had to disclose a felony on the appi. I’m not an area chair anymore so I don’t have access to check.

 

[WisNeuro]

I thought you only had to disclose a felony on the appi. I’m not an area chair anymore so I don’t have access to check.

Been a couple years, but unless they've changed recently, things like this were still asked about. The following was from the 2021 application

"* 11. Have you ever been convicted of an offense against the law other than a minor traffic violation?"

12. If yes, please elaborate.

 

[coffee&CBT]

Own it. Don't try to explain it away. If the rest of your application is good, won't matter at many sites. If your application is "meh," may push you out of the interview group.

I agree with this. Feels like it's being explained away/minimized (e.g., "a few cocktails"). I think the details surrounding the incident ("step out of the car, complete a field sobriety test, etc.) can be removed.

 

[psych.meout]

Hey y'all. I asked about this a few years ago when it happened but its now time to actually address this in my internship process. I'm at the question that asks if I've been convicted of any crime and to elaborate so here's my story and I'm looking for any advice on how to address this in my application... I've used this post as kind of a very very rough draft of how i'll address this, touching on the main points that I'll dive deeper into, so I would love direct feedback on any of that and anything else I should or shouldnt include. Thank you all in advance!!!!

In feb 2021, I had a few cocktails while out with friends. I intentionally stopped drinking around 11:30 and felt like I was fine to drive and that most of it shouldve been out of my system when everyone was leaving around 2:30 AM. I was pulled over for driving slightly over the white line when exiting the freeway. The officer stated that he smelled alcohol on my breath and asked me to step out of the car, complete the roadside sobriety tests, and blow into the breathalyzer. My BAC registered at a .10 (legal limit in my state is .08), so I was arrested and ultimately convicted in May 2022 (yes, the courts took forever). I was sentenced to 1 year of probation with the requirements of random alcohol/drug testing every week, monthly meetings with my probation officer, completing an 8 hour alcohol and driving course, attending a Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) seminar, and 40 hours of community service. I completed all requirements and was in good standing, so I was granted early termination of probation. Immediately after this happened, I met with a substance abuse counselor and completed an assessment, and he reported that he did not believe that I had a substance abuse problem (adding this here in case it would be helpful to mention that i took this step but im aware this might not hold any credibility since we all know the results are based on info I self-reported...thoughts?)

At the time, I was a social drinker at least 1-2x per month having 3-4 drinks each time, but since then I've drank 2-3 times per year mainly on special occasions having no more than 2 drinks and never driving after. At the time, I was also ignorant regarding the process/timing of themetabolization of alcohol , I genuinely thought it would mostly be out of my system by that time. however, I recognize that the problem is that I impulsively drove period knowing I consumed multiple drinks thinking that I was "fine" without considering that my judgement of how I felt was also likely impaired and that I was putting the public and myself in danger. This experience ultimately catapulted a deeper reflection of my personal and professional values and how regular consumption of alcohol did not align with those. It also really opened my eyes to how normalized binge drinking is in our society and that I was blindly following those norms...

I am grateful beyond words that I did not hurt or kill anyone else, that the consequences I have to deal with on my own did not ruin anyone else's life. This mistake possibly ruining my career made me realize how much I value that work I do, the reason I am in the field of psychology to promote resilience, growth, insight, support in people, to help people face the battles and obstacles in their journey, to educate and spread awareness. I debated if it was even worth continuing in my program and if I'd be able to match with an internship, but I did not allow this to interfere with my passion and goals, my progress and quality of work throughout my time in the program, and the care I was providing to my clients.

So much minimization.

 

[smalltownpsych]

So much minimization.

It does sound like that to me as well, but then again being a jaded old clinician that can skew my interpretation. Also, I was accused of minimizing and avoiding during a licensure process once and it was pretty frustrating. They took a very adversarial perspective and it was for something that was twenty years in my past. I had disclosed it but they felt that I was shading my answer. Actually, I was just trying to give essential facts and it was the same pat and terse statement that I had been using in multiple settings and applications. I ended up writing a multiple page answer with extensive detail to satisfy the “need to know” of the board president. Based on my experience, the attitudes of the reviewers is out of my control and I still think it’s best to provide a very brief response. If I run into someone who wants more, then I‘ve got that lengthy story ready to go. Haven’t had to go into more detail since.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I agree that it's best to own it. I also agree that there's probably over-disclosure in the current description. I'd probably stick with "just the facts" for the most part. You were convicted of DUI, you completed the mandated penalties and such, and it hasn't happened since. I don't personally think it's minimization to say you may have underestimated how long it might take to be legally clear to drive, but if you include that part, you'll just want to do so in a way that doesn't make it seem like you're trying to excuse the behavior. Discussing your drinking patterns, the specific nature of how and why you were pulled over, what your BAC was, and the details of the traffic stop is all unnecessary, IMO.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Speaking to the details and length, it’s like the difference between writing an assessment report in grad school v daily practice. Cut out any unnecessary words/sentences and distill it down to the most important points you want to convey to the reader.

1. what happened
2. how you responded (own it)
3. current status (mention behavior change)

From the training side, I’d want to see acknowledgement, completion of steps, and behavior change. A one-off incident can happen to most ppl, it just can’t happen again.

 

[smalltownpsych]

As you go forward, make sure that you have copies of all of the legal paperwork and completion of requirements and the assessment to provide when necessary. I have been licensed in three states and one of the three required me to do some extensive record retrieval and that took quite some time. Very rough moving to a new job in new state and finding out that you can’t get licensed for many months.

 

[quickpsych]

As others have said, less is more here. Stick to the facts, leave out the details. No reason to get ideas, assumptions or perceptions floating in the heads of those reading the application. A lapse in judgement for drunk driving will leave some of them wondering "what other possible lapses in judgement could this person have in this role here?" The best way to ensure that thought does not go any further is to limit the details that fuel that thought.

Just own it with the facts stated on your official record of charges and that you completed what the court required in full.

I'm not an expert on this but would keep it to:
- Determine if this is required to disclose (i.e. is it only felonies that must be disclosed in your jurisdiction?)
If yes:
- Date of incident, date of court ruling, and officially listed charge (i.e. DUI misdemeanor).
- That you completed all court appointed requirements
- That you recognized the mistake, took responsibility, sought professional services as needed and made positive changes.

Another thing here to consider, and I'd hope those reading your application consider this:

Does your doctoral program know of this?

If they do and you're still in the program obviously, I think it speaks to your credibility, reputation, responsibility, and potential. If the school knew and thought it was going to be a problem in you making it through school and becoming a licensed psychologist, you might not have gotten to the stage of applying for internships because you wouldn't be in the program anymore.

On a side note: When you do have interviews for these internships, IF the interviewer asks about the DUI, remember DO NOT make excuses, over-explain it, get into details of that night (or even details of the entire situation), minimize it, etc. Simply say that yes you made a mistake , took responsibility, and feel you have made positive changes that have allowed you to move forward. Sometimes in high pressure situations like interviews one can become nervous, defensive, or engage in oversharing. Keep it polite but to the point.

 

[ihaveanxpsyd]

Hey y'all. I asked about this a few years ago when it happened but its now time to actually address this in my internship process. I'm at the question that asks if I've been convicted of any crime and to elaborate so here's my story and I'm looking for any advice on how to address this in my application... I've used this post as kind of a very very rough draft of how i'll address this, touching on the main points that I'll dive deeper into, so I would love direct feedback on any of that and anything else I should or shouldnt include. Thank you all in advance!!!!

In feb 2021, I had a few cocktails while out with friends. I intentionally stopped drinking around 11:30 and felt like I was fine to drive and that most of it shouldve been out of my system when everyone was leaving around 2:30 AM. I was pulled over for driving slightly over the white line when exiting the freeway. The officer stated that he smelled alcohol on my breath and asked me to step out of the car, complete the roadside sobriety tests, and blow into the breathalyzer. My BAC registered at a .10 (legal limit in my state is .08), so I was arrested and ultimately convicted in May 2022 (yes, the courts took forever). I was sentenced to 1 year of probation with the requirements of random alcohol/drug testing every week, monthly meetings with my probation officer, completing an 8 hour alcohol and driving course, attending a Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) seminar, and 40 hours of community service. I completed all requirements and was in good standing, so I was granted early termination of probation. Immediately after this happened, I met with a substance abuse counselor and completed an assessment, and he reported that he did not believe that I had a substance abuse problem (adding this here in case it would be helpful to mention that i took this step but im aware this might not hold any credibility since we all know the results are based on info I self-reported...thoughts?)

At the time, I was a social drinker at least 1-2x per month having 3-4 drinks each time, but since then I've drank 2-3 times per year mainly on special occasions having no more than 2 drinks and never driving after. At the time, I was also ignorant regarding the process/timing of themetabolization of alcohol , I genuinely thought it would mostly be out of my system by that time. however, I recognize that the problem is that I impulsively drove period knowing I consumed multiple drinks thinking that I was "fine" without considering that my judgement of how I felt was also likely impaired and that I was putting the public and myself in danger. This experience ultimately catapulted a deeper reflection of my personal and professional values and how regular consumption of alcohol did not align with those. It also really opened my eyes to how normalized binge drinking is in our society and that I was blindly following those norms...

I am grateful beyond words that I did not hurt or kill anyone else, that the consequences I have to deal with on my own did not ruin anyone else's life. This mistake possibly ruining my career made me realize how much I value that work I do, the reason I am in the field of psychology to promote resilience, growth, insight, support in people, to help people face the battles and obstacles in their journey, to educate and spread awareness. I debated if it was even worth continuing in my program and if I'd be able to match with an internship, but I did not allow this to interfere with my passion and goals, my progress and quality of work throughout my time in the program, and the care I was providing to my clients.

You are overthinking this way too much and the over-disclosure is not going to help you. Disclose the conviction in the AAPI application (you do have to disclose a misdemeanor). When they say "elaborate," they mean "put the title of the conviction and year." You need to own this in one of your essays. Do not minimize or make excuses for how this happened - you made a bad choice. Explaining away or minimizing does not show that you have learned from this mistake. I say this to you as someone who also had a misdemeanor on my record and had to disclose it on my AAPI. In my essay, I did take accountability for my bad choices and explained how I had learned from this experience and am a different person now and a good clinician. I would suggest you do the same.

Also, I know the internship process is stressful enough without having legal issues, but I think you are going to be fine. I was able to acquire my #1 site during Phase 1 and several other people I know with similar stories to yours are successful psychologists now.

 

[PHDtobe_]

You are overthinking this way too much and the over-disclosure is not going to help you. Disclose the conviction in the AAPI application (you do have to disclose a misdemeanor). When they say "elaborate," they mean "put the title of the conviction and year." You need to own this in one of your essays. Do not minimize or make excuses for how this happened - you made a bad choice. Explaining away or minimizing does not show that you have learned from this mistake. I say this to you as someone who also had a misdemeanor on my record and had to disclose it on my AAPI. In my essay, I did take accountability for my bad choices and explained how I had learned from this experience and am a different person now and a good clinician. I would suggest you do the same.

Also, I know the internship process is stressful enough without having legal issues, but I think you are going to be fine. I was able to acquire my #1 site during Phase 1 and several other people I know with similar stories to yours are successful psychologists now.

thank you for saying all of that!

 

[BuckeyeLove]

This is going to be good practice for you for when it comes time for you to get licensed.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

This is going to be good practice for you for when it comes time for you to get licensed.

Agreed. You'll likely need to discuss it in a similar way when applying for licensure, malpractice insurance, board certification, etc. And the recommendation from smalltownpsych above to keep all the paperwork handy is a good one.

 

[WisNeuro]

And, as always, DON'T do it again. People are willing to overlook one mistake, but when something starts to become a pattern, many are no longer willing to give the benefit of the doubt. In the past, the admissions committees I've been on have interviewed and highly ranked a good number of people with a DUI, but I don't recall ever interviewing anyone with multiple DUIs. Those were insta-DNRs.

 

[BuckeyeLove]

Second the don't do it again recommendation. A close friend of mine had one in college. Got into a great program in spite of it. Then....got another one THREE MONTHS before he was set to apply for internship. 6 years, all wasted in that one moment. No internship would touch him. The school actually set up an internship for him to get through but he was so jaded by the process he dropped out all together (as he had an understanding that the process to obtain licensure would be almost insurmountable). Oh what made it even worse? The car ride he got pulled over on was only a 3 minute drive. He was yards away from where he was supposed to get to when he got pulled over. So yeah...don't ever have it happen again.