Advice for ReApp (School List, Research, etc)

[notsoeasy]

Hello! This cycle has been filled with a lot of anxiety and discouragement, but it's also filled me with anticipation as I definitely learned a lot from this last cycle and want to set my upcoming one for success! I think one of the main things that let me down last cycle was not applying to nearly enough schools (and probably having a bad balance).

Past School List: Hopkins, Penn State, UCF, Einstein (II), Georgetown, GW (II), Pitt, MD (IS), Perelman, Temple, Drexel, USC, Miami, Brown, Emory, Icahn, TJ, Virginia

Stats: MCAT (519, taken before applying last cycle), GPA (3.98, science and overall)

ECs:

1200+ Clinical: MA at 2 practices; I get to do a lot at my derm job (scribing, intake, procedural assistance, etc)

400+ Research: 250-300+ from working at a neurobio lab during undergrad (no publications or pubs, also mainly helped with data collection and analysis), 100+ from working with medical students on case studies/reports (new publication a month ago!) and am working on another paper currently

600+ Volunteer: Hospital volunteer (150+ but some was in HS so didn't include in the overall number, some was in the ER for a summer during college), noncrisis textliner helper (300+ in college), different other community organizations in college (100+), Advocacy foundation (50+, new role I started in my past gap year! - I had a huge passion for student advocacy when I was younger that was lost for a while during my studies but figured it was a great chance to bring back - I work with the media team in an organization that bridges patients and healthcare providers)

250+ Shadowing: Mainly from clinical urology (200+ in office throughout the years, 20+ now also in the OR), also did a shadowing program (40+ in the summer) at my hospital so got to see a variety of specialties!

Any suggestions of schools or types of schools I should be looking more into will be so helpful! Also, I know many top tier schools look for strong research, given by portfolio, I was wondering if that should be something I look into more? Given my current stats and activities, what reach schools seem best suited?

Any criticism and insight is greatly appreciated. I am sure I have weaknesses I may be overlooking and things I should look out for that I am unaware of, so please let me know your thoughts. And feel free to ask me anything 🙂

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[LindaAccepted]

Hello! This cycle has been filled with a lot of anxiety and discouragement, but it's also filled me with anticipation as I definitely learned a lot from this last cycle and want to set my upcoming one for success! I think one of the main things that let me down last cycle was not applying to nearly enough schools (and probably having a bad balance).

Past School List: Hopkins, Penn State, UCF, Einstein (II), Georgetown, GW (II), Pitt, MD (IS), Perelman, Temple, Drexel, USC, Miami, Brown, Emory, Icahn, TJ, Virginia

Stats: MCAT (519, taken before applying last cycle), GPA (3.98, science and overall)

ECs:

1200+ Clinical: MA at 2 practices; I get to do a lot at my derm job (scribing, intake, procedural assistance, etc)

400+ Research: 250-300+ from working at a neurobio lab during undergrad (no publications or pubs, also mainly helped with data collection and analysis), 100+ from working with medical students on case studies/reports (new publication a month ago!) and am working on another paper currently

600+ Volunteer: Hospital volunteer (150+ but some was in HS so didn't include in the overall number, some was in the ER for a summer during college), noncrisis textliner helper (300+ in college), different other community organizations in college (100+), Advocacy foundation (50+, new role I started in my past gap year! - I had a huge passion for student advocacy when I was younger that was lost for a while during my studies but figured it was a great chance to bring back - I work with the media team in an organization that bridges patients and healthcare providers)

250+ Shadowing: Mainly from clinical urology (200+ in office throughout the years, 20+ now also in the OR), also did a shadowing program (40+ in the summer) at my hospital so got to see a variety of specialties!

Any suggestions of schools or types of schools I should be looking more into will be so helpful! Also, I know many top tier schools look for strong research, given by portfolio, I was wondering if that should be something I look into more? Given my current stats and activities, what reach schools seem best suited?

Any criticism and insight is greatly appreciated. I am sure I have weaknesses I may be overlooking and things I should look out for that I am unaware of, so please let me know your thoughts. And feel free to ask me anything 🙂

A few thoughts:

Volunteer where you are interacting with the underserved in a non-clinical setting. Think soup kitchen, homeless shelter, addiction services, etc. Most of your volunteering is clinical volunteering. I really don't see that above.

If you really want to do research and attend a research oriented program, you should continue your research or perhaps find a different research opportunity .

In terms of recommending programs, what's important to you in a med school?

 

[notsoeasy]

A few thoughts:

Volunteer where you are interacting with the underserved in a non-clinical setting. Think soup kitchen, homeless shelter, addiction services, etc. Most of your volunteering is clinical volunteering. I really don't see that above.

If you really want to do research and attend a research oriented program, you should continue your research or perhaps find a different research opportunity .

In terms of recommending programs, what's important to you in a med school?

Thanks!!🙂 Yes, I'm planning on doing some volunteer work in hospice care this fall. My volunteering with the textline also wasn't clinical based and I would say my new advocacy volunteering is clinical in nature but more nonclinical tasks - focusing on healthcare in the realm of policy. Regardless, I definitely plan on looking around other volunteer opportunities in my free time as well

I learned a lot during research in labs during undergrad but also spent some days not having anything to do, so being honest, while I do like research-- I enjoy clinical experiences as a whole more; just wondering if getting more research experience would be beneficial, I'm not sure if my research is "enough"?

For med schools, I would love a school focused on community, servicing local populations, has strong connections, etc. But really, I also just want to cast a wide net this cycle and wanted to see any schools that would be a good fit that I may not have looked into! I felt many of my "target" schools last cycle ended up being low yield (GW, Temple, TJ, etc). I also wanted to choose my reach schools wisely. I know most top tiers care greatly about research, but was wondering what my research experiences match better with, so any thoughts would be super helpful!!

 

[Faha]

Where is your state of residence?

 

[notsoeasy]

Where is your state of residence?

md!

 

[Faha]

md!

Your lack of non clinical volunteering will limit your chances for interviews, especially at schools that value those activities and at top tier schools.
I suggest these schools if you reapply:
Maryland
West Virginia
George Washington
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
Penn State
Hackensack
Hofstra
Einstein
New York Medical College
Albany
Rochester
Vermont
Quinnipiac
Tufts
UMass
Virginia Commonwealth
Eastern Virginia
Wake Forest
Methodist (when it opens)
Belmont
NOVA MD
USF Morsani
TCU
Alice Walton
Washington University (in St. Louis)
Rosalind Franklin
Medical College Wisconsin
Western Michigan
Oakland Beaumont
Roseman
Colorado
Iowa
Cincinnati

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thanks!!🙂 Yes, I'm planning on doing some volunteer work in hospice care this fall. My volunteering with the textline also wasn't clinical based and I would say my new advocacy volunteering is clinical in nature but more nonclinical tasks - focusing on healthcare in the realm of policy. Regardless, I definitely plan on looking around other volunteer opportunities in my free time as well

I learned a lot during research in labs during undergrad but also spent some days not having anything to do, so being honest, while I do like research-- I enjoy clinical experiences as a whole more; just wondering if getting more research experience would be beneficial, I'm not sure if my research is "enough"?

For med schools, I would love a school focused on community, servicing local populations, has strong connections, etc. But really, I also just want to cast a wide net this cycle and wanted to see any schools that would be a good fit that I may not have looked into! I felt many of my "target" schools last cycle ended up being low yield (GW, Temple, TJ, etc). I also wanted to choose my reach schools wisely. I know most top tiers care greatly about research, but was wondering what my research experiences match better with, so any thoughts would be super helpful!!

Einstein (II), GW (II)

For what it's worth, you got a low-yield school in GW, so you aren't that far off. It's not easy getting an interview with them for sheer volume reasons. You did something right, even if I think you didn't have enough hours compared to the overall pool.

Most schools serve their local populations and should have strong community connections. YOU also need to walk your talk. In what way do you show your focus on community and serve the needs of those in need locally from your activities? It's not clear to me, and it probably wasn't a fit from the schools that looked at your file.

 

[notsoeasy]

For what it's worth, you got a low-yield school in GW, so you aren't that far off. It's not easy getting an interview with them for sheer volume reasons. You did something right, even if I think you didn't have enough hours compared to the overall pool.

Most schools serve their local populations and should have strong community connections. YOU also need to walk your talk. In what way do you show your focus on community and serve the needs of those in need locally from your activities? It's not clear to me, and it probably wasn't a fit from the schools that looked at your file.

Your lack of non clinical volunteering will limit your chances for interviews, especially at schools that value those activities and at top tier schools.
I suggest these schools if you reapply:
Maryland
West Virginia
George Washington
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
Penn State
Hackensack
Hofstra
Einstein
New York Medical College
Albany
Rochester
Vermont
Quinnipiac
Tufts
UMass
Virginia Commonwealth
Eastern Virginia
Wake Forest
Methodist (when it opens)
Belmont
NOVA MD
USF Morsani
TCU
Alice Walton
Washington University (in St. Louis)
Rosalind Franklin
Medical College Wisconsin
Western Michigan
Oakland Beaumont
Roseman
Colorado
Iowa
Cincinnati

Thanks for the insight! As for more nonclinical volunteering, I'm assuming this means direct contact with the underserved? I'm planning on beginning more volunteer work in hospice care (nonclinical side) and homeless services in the summer/fall - which I would plan on mentioning in my secondaries about the gap year, but is that also something worth eventually updating schools on in the late fall/winter?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thanks for the insight! As for more nonclinical volunteering, I'm assuming this means direct contact with the underserved? I'm planning on beginning more volunteer work in hospice care (nonclinical side) and homeless services in the summer/fall - which I would plan on mentioning in my secondaries about the gap year, but is that also something worth eventually updating schools on in the late fall/winter?

When I talk about non-clinical volunteering and service orientation activities, I'm focused on what you are doing. If you are serving marginalized populations, that's a different line on my rubric. But face-to-face is preferred; you need to be comfortable in spaces where you are otherwise uncomfortable or unfamiliar, especially when it comes to our marginalized communities.

 

[Faha]

Thanks for the insight! As for more nonclinical volunteering, I'm assuming this means direct contact with the underserved? I'm planning on beginning more volunteer work in hospice care (nonclinical side) and homeless services in the summer/fall - which I would plan on mentioning in my secondaries about the gap year, but is that also something worth eventually updating schools on in the late fall/winter?

Yes, direct contact such as food bank, homeless shelter. Projected hours have no value. The activities and completed hours need to be on your application when it is submitted.

 

[notsoeasy]

Yes, direct contact such as food bank, homeless shelter. Projected hours have no value. The activities and completed hours need to be on your application when it is submitted.

Gotcha! I thought I had a decent amount from university time (400+ from textline, food recovery, and farm volunteering) and have some mroe from a patient advocacy nonprofit I began volunteering at this year, in addition to the projected hours that can hopefully begin this month. Beyond that, I know the hours can definitely be stronger but any other recommendations to be proactive?

(edit: I guess I was also confused because I thought my non-clinical volunteer hours were, maybe not elite, but more than standard since most of my volunteering besides the hospital were non-clinical!)

 

[notsoeasy]

When I talk about non-clinical volunteering and service orientation activities, I'm focused on what you are doing. If you are serving marginalized populations, that's a different line on my rubric. But face-to-face is preferred; you need to be comfortable in spaces where you are otherwise uncomfortable or unfamiliar, especially when it comes to our marginalized communities.

I see! When you talk about it not being clear, I assume that is something I can work on in the descriptions/potentially most meaningful activities section? If projected hours after submission are not held to the same weight, any other ways to be proactive?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I see! When you talk about it not being clear, I assume that is something I can work on in the descriptions/potentially most meaningful activities section? If projected hours after submission are not held to the same weight, any other ways to be proactive?

I am only going what you supplied here. If it's not clear here, then I hope you make it clear on your application.

 

[notsoeasy]

I am only going what you supplied here. If it's not clear here, then I hope you make it clear on your application.

Gotcha!l, I’ll definitely elaborate further on my app- I definitely was a little more broad in my initial post! But helpful nonetheless, I know what kind of new opportunities to search for this coming year.

How does my research look? I know I definitely don’t have stand out hours or anything but do they hit what most schools (non research leaning) are looking for?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Gotcha!l, I’ll definitely elaborate further on my app- I definitely was a little more broad in my initial post! But helpful nonetheless, I know what kind of new opportunities to search for this coming year.

How does my research look? I know I definitely don’t have stand out hours or anything but do they hit what most schools (non research leaning) are looking for?

Research is only a big deal if you make it one for your career direction as a physician. Having some isn't a dealbreaker for most medical schools that are confident they can "convert" anyone to love med school research. 🙂

 

[LizzyM]

Service that is NOT clinical or clinic-adjacent or in any way helping "patients" is needed as a measure of your willingness to help when there is nothing in it for you (no way of counting it as clinical experience) although that's something of an oxymoron as it becomes an unwritten rule for med school admission.

Being comfortable around people who often make others feel uncomfortable is the skill you are learning with this.

 

[LindaAccepted]

Thanks!!🙂 Yes, I'm planning on doing some volunteer work in hospice care this fall. My volunteering with the textline also wasn't clinical based and I would say my new advocacy volunteering is clinical in nature but more nonclinical tasks - focusing on healthcare in the realm of policy. Regardless, I definitely plan on looking around other volunteer opportunities in my free time as well

I learned a lot during research in labs during undergrad but also spent some days not having anything to do, so being honest, while I do like research-- I enjoy clinical experiences as a whole more; just wondering if getting more research experience would be beneficial, I'm not sure if my research is "enough"?

For med schools, I would love a school focused on community, servicing local populations, has strong connections, etc. But really, I also just want to cast a wide net this cycle and wanted to see any schools that would be a good fit that I may not have looked into! I felt many of my "target" schools last cycle ended up being low yield (GW, Temple, TJ, etc). I also wanted to choose my reach schools wisely. I know most top tiers care greatly about research, but was wondering what my research experiences match better with, so any thoughts would be super helpful!!

When I say "clinical" I mean interacting with sick people and their families usually in a clinical setting. To quote @LizzyM "If you are close enough to smell patients then it is a clinical experience." While valuable experience and admirable, the textline and advocacy work in my book isn't clinical. In terms of serving the underserved, depending on which hospice you are working in, it may or may not qualify. If the homeless services you mentioned in a different post have you interacting with the homeless, that would qualify as service to the underserved. As others have pointed out, you will be interacting with those whom you may currently be uncomfortable with, and that's going to be important to you as a future medical student and physician.

Faha gave you a great potential school list. If you are interested in living in NE Pennsylvania, you may also want to consider Geisinger. Very community oriented.

 

[notsoeasy]

When I say "clinical" I mean interacting with sick people and their families usually in a clinical setting. To quote @LizzyM "If you are close enough to smell patients then it is a clinical experience." While valuable experience and admirable, the textline and advocacy work in my book isn't clinical. In terms of serving the underserved, depending on which hospice you are working in, it may or may not qualify. If the homeless services you mentioned in a different post have you interacting with the homeless, that would qualify as service to the underserved. As others have pointed out, you will be interacting with those whom you may currently be uncomfortable with, and that's going to be important to you as a future medical student and physician.

Faha gave you a great potential school list. If you are interested in living in NE Pennsylvania, you may also want to consider Geisinger. Very community oriented.

Service that is NOT clinical or clinic-adjacent or in any way helping "patients" is needed as a measure of your willingness to help when there is nothing in it for you (no way of counting it as clinical experience) although that's something of an oxymoron as it becomes an unwritten rule for med school admission.

Being comfortable around people who often make others feel uncomfortable is the skill you are learning with this.

Thank you for the information! Also I think I'm getting a bit confused - I wanted to clarify I have:
Clinical hours: Medical Assistant, Clinical volunteer: Hospital, Non-clinical volunteer: the textline + advocacy work (+ scattered hours of food recovery and farm work from college)

With these, I assume I have activities in the cateograties that schools are looking for in terms of volunteer (nonclinical and clinical) and clinical hours?

Separately, I assume community service/volunteer with the underserved would be beneficial and is what you were telling me I should add more of? Besides volunteering to help out with the homeless, what are some other opportunity that would qualify?

 

[LindaAccepted]

Thank you for the information! Also I think I'm getting a bit confused - I wanted to clarify I have:
Clinical hours: Medical Assistant, Clinical volunteer: Hospital, Non-clinical volunteer: the textline + advocacy work (+ scattered hours of food recovery and farm work from college)

With these, I assume I have activities in the cateograties that schools are looking for in terms of volunteer (nonclinical and clinical) and clinical hours?

Separately, I assume community service/volunteer with the underserved would be beneficial and is what you were telling me I should add more of? Besides volunteering to help out with the homeless, what are some other opportunity that would qualify?

I'm sorry if I'm not being clear.

Clinical experience involve interacting with patients and their families, and usually other healthcare professionals.

Non clinical experience is very broad and includes advocacy, work in various capacities, leadership, fundraising, and service to and with the underserved and marginalized. It's the last category that I think you need to increase.

Is this clearer?

 

[notsoeasy]

I'm sorry if I'm not being clear.

Clinical experience involve interacting with patients and their families, and usually other healthcare professionals.

Non clinical experience is very broad and includes advocacy, work in various capacities, leadership, fundraising, and service to and with the underserved and marginalized. It's the last category that I think you need to increase.

Is this clearer?

Yes, yes!! I think I was just getting confused by the specific categorical names. I definitely do agree and am looking for more nonclinical exp. that help the underserved - thanks again for the insight!

 

[LizzyM]

Rescuing food and farming the land is all well and good but you aren't really face -to-face with people who others are trying to avoid, if you know what I mean. Text-messaging is a needed service but it is like telemedicine while we'd like you to get face-to-face service to those in need. Advocacy and fundraising is important but, again, it is removed from really getting into uncomfortable situations, unless you count not liking to ask people for money (you could be a future med school dean!) or talking to elected officials (you could be a lobbyist).

 

[notsoeasy]

Rescuing food and farming the land is all well and good but you aren't really face -to-face with people who others are trying to avoid, if you know what I mean. Text-messaging is a needed service but it is like telemedicine while we'd like you to get face-to-face service to those in need. Advocacy and fundraising is important but, again, it is removed from really getting into uncomfortable situations, unless you count not liking to ask people for money (you could be a future med school dean!) or talking to elected officials (you could be a lobbyist).

Mmmm yes I gotcha, so essentially my current activities may be good to have and count towards volunteering but having the experiences interacting with the underserved (homeless shelters, women's shelters?) adds experience in its own category within non-clinical volunteer that would be ideal to have

 

[notsoeasy]

Rescuing food and farming the land is all well and good but you aren't really face -to-face with people who others are trying to avoid, if you know what I mean. Text-messaging is a needed service but it is like telemedicine while we'd like you to get face-to-face service to those in need. Advocacy and fundraising is important but, again, it is removed from really getting into uncomfortable situations, unless you count not liking to ask people for money (you could be a future med school dean!) or talking to elected officials (you could be a lobbyist).

I'm sorry if I'm not being clear.

Clinical experience involve interacting with patients and their families, and usually other healthcare professionals.

Non clinical experience is very broad and includes advocacy, work in various capacities, leadership, fundraising, and service to and with the underserved and marginalized. It's the last category that I think you need to increase.

Is this clearer?

Just wanted to confirm - so I assume volunteering at a food bank/soup kitchen is also good work and impactful volunteering for underserved communities but that is still distinct from actually interacting face to face with the underserved individuals and providing service?

 

[LizzyM]

Just wanted to confirm - so I assume volunteering at a food bank/soup kitchen is also good work and impactful volunteering for underserved communities but that is still distinct from actually interacting face to face with the underserved individuals and providing service?

It depends on what you are doing. If your job is to chop vegetables for the soup and you do that and go home, that isn't face-to-face service but if you are serving patrons in a buffet line and/or delivering food and drink to their tables and/or handing out "go bags" as they leave and saying a kind word then that is face-to-face service.

 

[notsoeasy]

It depends on what you are doing. If your job is to chop vegetables for the soup and you do that and go home, that isn't face-to-face service but if you are serving patrons in a buffet line and/or delivering food and drink to their tables and/or handing out "go bags" as they leave and saying a kind word then that is face-to-face service.

Ahh right, more about what you do vs. what the activity is called - thank you!