Advice from Prof for Applicants to PhD Programs

[scienceisbeauty]

Hi Dr. ClinPsy,

Dr.ClinPsy, I am interested primarly in Social Psych and Clinical Psych and the joining of the two fields.
In this respect, I plan to apply to Clin professors who do both, or apply to clin psych programs housed with strong social psych faculty members. In addition, I am going to apply to a few pure social Psych programs.

#1: Will this be strange..if profs ask, where else did you apply (or where you have to list) other places you applied to, that I'm apply to a SELECT FEW pure research programs? Should I explain this somewhere?

Oh, and starting in 2 wks I'll be working with a social psych professor (who also does clinical work) -- he said that if I got into the Clinical program at the school, he could still be my supervisor for graduate studies....

#2: How do you feel about non-clinical faculty supervising Clinical students?
#2a: In this respect, one researcher I'm looking at stated that he is fine with supervising EITHER experimental or clinical students, so if I apply to work with him as a clinical student...do you think that would be ok? (I don't know how to ask this q properly...more like, do you see any flaws with that/potential probs..)

Thanks ever so much!
SIB

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[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Should I include full references or just an in-text citation?

In text is fine for the personal statement, but I am guessing you'll have the whole reference on your CV

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Hi Dr. ClinPsy,

Dr.ClinPsy, I am interested primarly in Social Psych and Clinical Psych and the joining of the two fields.
In this respect, I plan to apply to Clin professors who do both, or apply to clin psych programs housed with strong social psych faculty members. In addition, I am going to apply to a few pure social Psych programs.

#1: Will this be strange..if profs ask, where else did you apply (or where you have to list) other places you applied to, that I'm apply to a SELECT FEW pure research programs? Should I explain this somewhere?

Oh, and starting in 2 wks I'll be working with a social psych professor (who also does clinical work) -- he said that if I got into the Clinical program at the school, he could still be my supervisor for graduate studies....

#2: How do you feel about non-clinical faculty supervising Clinical students?
#2a: In this respect, one researcher I'm looking at stated that he is fine with supervising EITHER experimental or clinical students, so if I apply to work with him as a clinical student...do you think that would be ok? (I don't know how to ask this q properly...more like, do you see any flaws with that/potential probs..)

Thanks ever so much!
SIB

All of this sounds completely appropriate to me. Your research area does not necessarily have to map onto your clinical interests. You may need to justify this decision a few times along the way, but if there is a clear rationale for blending the two fields, then it will be fine.

 

[eldarwen]

Dear DrClinPsyAdvice, thanks for taking your time out to answer our questions.

I am an undergradute student embarking on my honors thesis. The problem with my school now is that the psychology division is very new and there is a dearth of clinical psychologists. Currently, there is only one clinical psych professor here, and even then she specializes in neuro-clinical psychology. I have professed my interest in working with her because of the clinical psychology component, but she has told me that she is unable to supervise me on a topic which focuses wholly on clinical psychology. If I were to work with her, the only topics available to me are those in the area of neuropsychology.

My question now is: would it jeopardize my future chances of applying to a clinical phd program if my final year thesis is on neuropsychology? Also, would it help at all if I chose my mentor based on her speciality in neuro-clinical psych even though she is not specializing purely in clinical psychology?

Thanks for your help,
eldarwen

 

[cbyoung]

Hi again,
I have a similar question to eldarwen. I am also about to start my Honors Thesis but my university does not have a clinical psychology division. They do, however have a Psychiatry Department so I am working with a psychiatrist who works at the VA hospital for my thesis. I would like to get some additional research experience before I graduate, but would it be beneficial to work with the psychiatry department or would it be seen as irrelevant? Thanks again.

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Dear DrClinPsyAdvice, thanks for taking your time out to answer our questions.

I am an undergradute student embarking on my honors thesis. The problem with my school now is that the psychology division is very new and there is a dearth of clinical psychologists. Currently, there is only one clinical psych professor here, and even then she specializes in neuro-clinical psychology. I have professed my interest in working with her because of the clinical psychology component, but she has told me that she is unable to supervise me on a topic which focuses wholly on clinical psychology. If I were to work with her, the only topics available to me are those in the area of neuropsychology.

My question now is: would it jeopardize my future chances of applying to a clinical phd program if my final year thesis is on neuropsychology? Also, would it help at all if I chose my mentor based on her speciality in neuro-clinical psych even though she is not specializing purely in clinical psychology?

Thanks for your help,
eldarwen

ANY research experience is good, and it does not have to match what you will do in graduate school. When you write a letter of interest, just make clear why you did what you did and why you want to work in a new area, and you will be fine!

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Hi again,
I have a similar question to eldarwen. I am also about to start my Honors Thesis but my university does not have a clinical psychology division. They do, however have a Psychiatry Department so I am working with a psychiatrist who works at the VA hospital for my thesis. I would like to get some additional research experience before I graduate, but would it be beneficial to work with the psychiatry department or would it be seen as irrelevant? Thanks again.

Many psychiatrists do good research, and this can be very relevant experience. But if the work is not rooted well within the literature, or uses methods that are not similar to what psychologists use, then it may be less useful. Read the literature in the area of research you are working in so you can write an educated essay.

 

[lesleeannc]

Hi! Thank you so much for writing to us on here! It really helps to calm my nerves to come on here and listen and ask questions to those who have already gone through what I'm going through and to have you hear only helps that much more, so thank you!

Okay, I have 2 questions and I hope they haven't been asked...

#1. I am just a sophomore in college. I recently graduated from a community college (I was super broke my first year and couldn't afford a 4 year college) I finally got some good finacial aid and I'm going to a better school that actually has a an actual Psychology Department... I got accepted for an RA position recording data, weighing rats, feeding them and I guess just assisting my 2 professors. Is this the kind of research experience that I want when applying to grad schools? I also have to do a senior thesis, but in between sophomore year and senior year what should I be trying to do? I think I can continue this RA position because the only reason I got it was because some people graduated, so I guess they keep people for awhile (hopefully!)
Could suggest some other research experiences I should try to get? Can they be about anything pertaining to Psych?
I don't even know how to go about doing an authorship or anything like that...

#2 What would you suggest other than taking my Psych classes and doing good them? Should I be trying to get to know other professors in the Dept even though this is just my first semester or wait until I take their classes? Do professors want students to ask about research or do they get annoyed?

Sorry. I know its a lot! Thank you so much and I appreciate you taking time out of your day to answer our questions. It means so much!

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Hi! Thank you so much for writing to us on here! It really helps to calm my nerves to come on here and listen and ask questions to those who have already gone through what I'm going through and to have you hear only helps that much more, so thank you!

Okay, I have 2 questions and I hope they haven't been asked...

#1. I am just a sophomore in college. I recently graduated from a community college (I was super broke my first year and couldn't afford a 4 year college) I finally got some good finacial aid and I'm going to a better school that actually has a an actual Psychology Department... I got accepted for an RA position recording data, weighing rats, feeding them and I guess just assisting my 2 professors. Is this the kind of research experience that I want when applying to grad schools? I also have to do a senior thesis, but in between sophomore year and senior year what should I be trying to do? I think I can continue this RA position because the only reason I got it was because some people graduated, so I guess they keep people for awhile (hopefully!)
Could suggest some other research experiences I should try to get? Can they be about anything pertaining to Psych?
I don't even know how to go about doing an authorship or anything like that...

#2 What would you suggest other than taking my Psych classes and doing good them? Should I be trying to get to know other professors in the Dept even though this is just my first semester or wait until I take their classes? Do professors want students to ask about research or do they get annoyed?

Sorry. I know its a lot! Thank you so much and I appreciate you taking time out of your day to answer our questions. It means so much!

Any research experience in psychology that interests you can be valuable research experience. As you progress, you likely will gain a deeper understanding of the lab, the study hypotheses, and the reasons why you are researching what you are. This will be helpful to write an intelligent personal statement one day. As for getting to know your professors, genuine enthusiasm about their work and intellectual curiosity never hurt anyone!

 

[lesleeannc]

Any research experience in psychology that interests you can be valuable research experience. As you progress, you likely will gain a deeper understanding of the lab, the study hypotheses, and the reasons why you are researching what you are. This will be helpful to write an intelligent personal statement one day. As for getting to know your professors, genuine enthusiasm about their work and intellectual curiosity never hurt anyone!

Thanks so much for your advice. I looked up all my professors and found that interested me! I read up on one of her studies and then wrote her an email and now I'm going to be her RA next semester!

Thank you so much!

 

[greenmac]

First of all thank you so much for answering all of these questions -- it is a great resource for those of us going through the application process.

1. How critical is it that LORs come from doctoral-level psychologists? I plan to have 2 LORs from PhD professors, but I have been out of school for 2 years and don't have a third PhD who I think can (remember me enough to) write a good letter for me. However, a former supervisor had an MA in general psych and I think he could write a very flattering letter on my behalf. Is this OK? Also, I'm applying to experimental psych programs, not clinical, if that matters.

2. Emailing POI's: How long should we expect them to take to write back? I know it's a busy time of year, but I've emailed a few and I'm not sure if some are taking a long time to respond or if they're ignoring me. Hah! If I don't hear back from them, should I take that to mean I shouldn't bother applying to that program?

Again, thanks for all of your help on this forum -- it is very much appreciated!

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

First of all thank you so much for answering all of these questions -- it is a great resource for those of us going through the application process.

1. How critical is it that LORs come from doctoral-level psychologists? I plan to have 2 LORs from PhD professors, but I have been out of school for 2 years and don't have a third PhD who I think can (remember me enough to) write a good letter for me. However, a former supervisor had an MA in general psych and I think he could write a very flattering letter on my behalf. Is this OK? Also, I'm applying to experimental psych programs, not clinical, if that matters.

2. Emailing POI's: How long should we expect them to take to write back? I know it's a busy time of year, but I've emailed a few and I'm not sure if some are taking a long time to respond or if they're ignoring me. Hah! If I don't hear back from them, should I take that to mean I shouldn't bother applying to that program?

Again, thanks for all of your help on this forum -- it is very much appreciated!

Sure, 1 out of 3 non-PhD is OK. But just 1.
Give profs at least a week to write you back, and try them again before you drop them from your list. It's a busy time and it's hard to keep up with email!

 

[Rapunzel]

Would it be a mistake to apply to two departments at the same university? There is more information in the thread that I started on this topic. In short, I am geographically limited because of family obligations, and hoping to maximize my chances of getting accepted to one of the three schools within driving distance of where I live. Two of them have separate Clinical and Counseling Psychology programs.

I am also trying to work out how to present my minimal research experience. I started on a senior thesis for Communicative Disorders and didn't finish it back in 1991. I also had various papers back then, mostly in Com D, for honors credit. I didn't graduate back then because I gave up on having any career at all. Five years ago, I resumed the quest, and have focused on what I always really wanted to do, which is psychology. I took a fifth year of undergrad courses including six credits assisting a professor with a research project, only I don't feel that my contributions were very meaningful. I was a distance student, the professor was out of the country, and none of the potential sites in the rural area where I lived were willing to agree to allow me to collect data there. I did get approval to modify the procedures and change the population slightly and I collected some data, but my data was not used and collecting data was as far as I got. I participated in online discussions with other students involved in the project.

By November, 2008, I will have completed a master's in counseling (non-thesis). I have a good amount of clinical experience, including a year of internship and will have nearly a year as a CPCI by next Fall. Does that count for anything?

Can I count two years working in applied behavior analysis as research experience? At my current job I conduct interviews, use formal assessments, take data and analyze data. I graph the data and interpret it. I train staff on recording the data that I need and implementing the procedures that I develop, and analyze the effectiveness of my procedures. Nothing gets published. It is all for the benefit of individual clients.

Would it be worthwhile to submit a sanitized (no identifiable information) version of one of my behavior programs as a sample of my experience and writing skills?

With this background, an undergrad GPA of 3.64, graduate GPA 3.96, GRE Scores Verbal:640, Quantitative 620, Psychology 700, do I have any chance of being accepted to a PhD program in psychology?

Thanks ever so much for being willing to answer questions like these!

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Would it be a mistake to apply to two departments at the same university? There is more information in the thread that I started on this topic. In short, I am geographically limited because of family obligations, and hoping to maximize my chances of getting accepted to one of the three schools within driving distance of where I live. Two of them have separate Clinical and Counseling Psychology programs.

I am also trying to work out how to present my minimal research experience. I started on a senior thesis for Communicative Disorders and didn't finish it back in 1991. I also had various papers back then, mostly in Com D, for honors credit. I didn't graduate back then because I gave up on having any career at all. Five years ago, I resumed the quest, and have focused on what I always really wanted to do, which is psychology. I took a fifth year of undergrad courses including six credits assisting a professor with a research project, only I don't feel that my contributions were very meaningful. I was a distance student, the professor was out of the country, and none of the potential sites in the rural area where I lived were willing to agree to allow me to collect data there. I did get approval to modify the procedures and change the population slightly and I collected some data, but my data was not used and collecting data was as far as I got. I participated in online discussions with other students involved in the project.

By November, 2008, I will have completed a master's in counseling (non-thesis). I have a good amount of clinical experience, including a year of internship and will have nearly a year as a CPCI by next Fall. Does that count for anything?

Can I count two years working in applied behavior analysis as research experience? At my current job I conduct interviews, use formal assessments, take data and analyze data. I graph the data and interpret it. I train staff on recording the data that I need and implementing the procedures that I develop, and analyze the effectiveness of my procedures. Nothing gets published. It is all for the benefit of individual clients.

Would it be worthwhile to submit a sanitized (no identifiable information) version of one of my behavior programs as a sample of my experience and writing skills?

With this background, an undergrad GPA of 3.64, graduate GPA 3.96, GRE Scores Verbal:640, Quantitative 620, Psychology 700, do I have any chance of being accepted to a PhD program in psychology?

Thanks ever so much for being willing to answer questions like these!

If a clinical and counseling program are located in the same department, then applying to both could make you look less focused. There are different goals and trajectories for these two degrees so it is important to you apply appearing to have a clear sense of direction and not just look like you wanting to 'get in' to anything you can. Hard to predict how your credentials will be perceived in the application process. It does seem like your research experience is a bit low for many PhD programs. More importantly, ask yourself if you WANT a clinical degree and if so, why. With a masters in counseling and substantial clinical experience, you may be a good match for counseling programs.

I would not send a work sample unless it is requested.

 

[Rapunzel]

Thank you. Do you have any advice about approaching a POI? Is now a good time to email POIs? It seems like they are always extremely busy.

 

[scienceisbeauty]

I was curious -- I'm planning to apply to clinical PhD programs (to start fall 09), my end goal is to be a professor as well as a clinician, but that is a far ways away. I want to do lots of research. I'll be applying to heavy research-focused schools.
I'm just wondering though: what happens, what gets one a professorship position? Clearly how well one does in grad school, in terms of pubs, etc. But... is it true that the job stability, the definite guarantee of a professor position is just not there?

Is it really true that one could spend 7 years of their life and once they're done, have nowhere to go and nothing to do?

It scares me terribly. Makes me feel discouraged too.

Help?
Thanks a ton!
SIB

 

[NeuropsychLady]

I so appreciate this thread... it is extremely helpful. I've had a dig through the older posts, but I haven't found this exact question. Please forgive me if I've missed it.

My major concern...I feel I am good applicant to clinical psych programs, however my application glitch is my undergraduate gpa (3.34) - due to overloading myself during my sophomore year (resident assistant with suicidal residents, honors classes, president of honor society, etc). I was at the hospital with students more than class sometimes.

I've got my MSc in my research field, over 1250 GRE (nearly equal on both sections - taking it again), and solid research experience in my field of research (second author on one publication, first author on three in progress). I've emailed POI's and they've responded positively - I match their research interests very well and they ask that I apply. I've been out of undergrad for 6 years, and built my career for the past three doing neuropsych assessments and papers with a well-known research program.

I'm unsure what to do, so any insight would be appreciated.

Options:
1. Should I email POI's I've previously contacted to ask if my GPA is a deal breaker? I don't want to waste their time.

2. Should I not email them, apply anyway, and have my references mention it in their letters?

3. Not apply, and go back to take the four classes I got C's in to raise my GPA. Apply the following year?

Thank you, thank you, thank you for your help!

 

[anotherriver]

Hello dear, I've been reading your posts and thank you so much for sharing the knowledge! I'd like to ask some questions regarding my status:
1)Now it's going to be my 5th year as undergrad (since I need to complete honors thesis) and I'm pretty much done with taking core classes. I'm just planning on doing researches (2 projects including the thesis) and intern. My GPA is alright (3.85; transferred student) and am in honors class. However, last year, I did not excel on the Honors Experimental Psychology courses (1 A and 2 B+'s; 3 quarter module) so was wondering if I should take one other research methods class (a mini version of Experimental Psych course that only takes one quarter to finish; usually people who want to get easy B.A. complete this course to graduate) in order to prove that I can do good in research methods classes. I tell myself that this is going overboard, since I am conducting two research projects to present. How important are grades for experimental/research methods classes?
2)How should I spend my 5th year? Do you think I should take more classes to raise my GPA? I've seen some people getting rejected with better GPA than mine. Or should I just concentrate on things like GRE instead?
3)What kind of classes are considered as biopsych courses? I've taken learning theory course and am thinking of taking memory course; do these count as biopsych courses?
Thank you.

 

[deleted176373]

I so appreciate this thread... it is extremely helpful. I've had a dig through the older posts, but I haven't found this exact question. Please forgive me if I've missed it.

Options:
1. Should I email POI's I've previously contacted to ask if my GPA is a deal breaker? I don't want to waste their time.

2. Should I not email them, apply anyway, and have my references mention it in their letters?

3. Not apply, and go back to take the four classes I got C's in to raise my GPA. Apply the following year?

Thank you, thank you, thank you for your help!

I wouldn't ask them point blank, no point, GPA is not a deal breaker with a good GRE score. You do need to address it in your personal statement, but only briefly. Something to the effect of

"in my exuberance to experience as much as I could, I bit off more than I could chew as a sophomore and my grades suffered. This semester greatly affected my overall GPA but provided a valuable lesson in moderation. Years wiser, I know that despite my slightly low academic GPA, that I have a great deal to offer the university of xxx. My professional career has allowed me to blah, blah, blah."

Not a big deal really, just a quick explination and be done with it. It shows that you are human and you realize limitations and can recover from adverse events. Really, it's not that big of a deal. Now if you told me you had a 2.3 GPA, then it would be a big problem. Your research and pubs will carry much more weight than your GPA.

Mark

 

[alleycatpsych]

Thanks for all the useful information you've given. I have a question regarding e-mailing POI's. I e-mailed a professor at school X several weeks ago. After ten days with no response, I sent another, more succinct e-mail. A week after that, I have still not received a response. I really like school X. Should I e-mail another faculty member, apply without hearing back from the professor, or scrap school X all together?

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Thank you. Do you have any advice about approaching a POI? Is now a good time to email POIs? It seems like they are always extremely busy.

Now is good. Ask them if they would like a bullet pointed list reminding them of what you have done with them, what they can write about you, and what you are trying to emphasize in your statement. This can be very helpful.

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

I was curious -- I'm planning to apply to clinical PhD programs (to start fall 09), my end goal is to be a professor as well as a clinician, but that is a far ways away. I want to do lots of research. I'll be applying to heavy research-focused schools.
I'm just wondering though: what happens, what gets one a professorship position? Clearly how well one does in grad school, in terms of pubs, etc. But... is it true that the job stability, the definite guarantee of a professor position is just not there?

Is it really true that one could spend 7 years of their life and once they're done, have nowhere to go and nothing to do?

It scares me terribly. Makes me feel discouraged too.

Help?
Thanks a ton!
SIB

There are plenty of jobs out there, and I cannot recall hearing of people who couldn't get ANYTHING. Academic jobs are competitive, but there's a lot of possibilities to go around!

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

I so appreciate this thread... it is extremely helpful. I've had a dig through the older posts, but I haven't found this exact question. Please forgive me if I've missed it.

My major concern...I feel I am good applicant to clinical psych programs, however my application glitch is my undergraduate gpa (3.34) - due to overloading myself during my sophomore year (resident assistant with suicidal residents, honors classes, president of honor society, etc). I was at the hospital with students more than class sometimes.

I've got my MSc in my research field, over 1250 GRE (nearly equal on both sections - taking it again), and solid research experience in my field of research (second author on one publication, first author on three in progress). I've emailed POI's and they've responded positively - I match their research interests very well and they ask that I apply. I've been out of undergrad for 6 years, and built my career for the past three doing neuropsych assessments and papers with a well-known research program.

I'm unsure what to do, so any insight would be appreciated.

Options:
1. Should I email POI's I've previously contacted to ask if my GPA is a deal breaker? I don't want to waste their time.

2. Should I not email them, apply anyway, and have my references mention it in their letters?

3. Not apply, and go back to take the four classes I got C's in to raise my GPA. Apply the following year?

Thank you, thank you, thank you for your help!

I vote #2

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Hello dear, I've been reading your posts and thank you so much for sharing the knowledge! I'd like to ask some questions regarding my status:
1)Now it's going to be my 5th year as undergrad (since I need to complete honors thesis) and I'm pretty much done with taking core classes. I'm just planning on doing researches (2 projects including the thesis) and intern. My GPA is alright (3.85; transferred student) and am in honors class. However, last year, I did not excel on the Honors Experimental Psychology courses (1 A and 2 B+'s; 3 quarter module) so was wondering if I should take one other research methods class (a mini version of Experimental Psych course that only takes one quarter to finish; usually people who want to get easy B.A. complete this course to graduate) in order to prove that I can do good in research methods classes. I tell myself that this is going overboard, since I am conducting two research projects to present. How important are grades for experimental/research methods classes?
2)How should I spend my 5th year? Do you think I should take more classes to raise my GPA? I've seen some people getting rejected with better GPA than mine. Or should I just concentrate on things like GRE instead?
3)What kind of classes are considered as biopsych courses? I've taken learning theory course and am thinking of taking memory course; do these count as biopsych courses?
Thank you.

Your GPA is fine and we rarely look at the classes you got in one specific class. The transcript is rarely scrutinized. Research experience and match are far more relevant once you've exceeded a general mark of achievement (and a 3.85 exceeds any threshold I've heard of)

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Thanks for all the useful information you've given. I have a question regarding e-mailing POI's. I e-mailed a professor at school X several weeks ago. After ten days with no response, I sent another, more succinct e-mail. A week after that, I have still not received a response. I really like school X. Should I e-mail another faculty member, apply without hearing back from the professor, or scrap school X all together?

Apply anyway. There are SO many emails that come to faculty at his time of year - it is very hard to respond to all of them.

 

[Iglet]

Dear Dr. ClinPsyAdvice,

I have a question regarding undergrad research experience. Does not having an honors thesis act as a red flag on my application? I'm applying from a Canadian school where you can earn an honors bachelor degree without writing an honors thesis. The reason I don't have one, is that I registered as a double major in psychology and english, instead of a psych specialist, which restricted me from enrolling in the thesis course at my school. However, I did two independent research projects where I basically conducted the whole experiment from design to subject recruitment, to analysis, to writing final APA papers. In addition, I have extensive (2-3 years each) RA experience in two labs. Do you think that these credentials are strong in terms of research experience and do you think that they can substitute for my lack of an honors thesis? I guess, in short, is an honors thesis required to be admitted?

Thank you

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Dear Dr. ClinPsyAdvice,

I have a question regarding undergrad research experience. Does not having an honors thesis act as a red flag on my application? I'm applying from a Canadian school where you can earn an honors bachelor degree without writing an honors thesis. The reason I don't have one, is that I registered as a double major in psychology and english, instead of a psych specialist, which restricted me from enrolling in the thesis course at my school. However, I did two independent research projects where I basically conducted the whole experiment from design to subject recruitment, to analysis, to writing final APA papers. In addition, I have extensive (2-3 years each) RA experience in two labs. Do you think that these credentials are strong in terms of research experience and do you think that they can substitute for my lack of an honors thesis? I guess, in short, is an honors thesis required to be admitted?

Thank you

No, not at all required.

 

[greenmac]

DrClinPsyAdvice,

I know everyone is saying it, but I want to reiterate that I'm very grateful that you answer everyone's questions here. It can be such a daunting process and your feedback really makes a difference in how well people can deal with it. Not to sound too corny, but seriously, thanks for everything.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is, Will you write me a letter of recommendation?





(Hah! just kidding about that last part

 

[scienceisbeauty]

DrClinPsyAdvice,


I guess what I'm really trying to say is, Will you write me a letter of recommendation?

I wonder what the letter would say

Dear University of X,
Greenmac is a stellar SDN poster. With 11 posts on the forum, people have benefitted from greenmac's inquisitive and insightful nature. There are few if any spelling errors in Greenmac's posts, and they are of appropriate length so I don't get bored reading them - this relays that Greenmac has appropriate concern for others.
Also, Greenmac has started threads as well as added to them, Greenmac respects forum rules and regulations and has never violated them.
Please accept Greenmac into your program.

LOL.

It would be really funny if you hadn't been kidding.

 

[Ilovethebrain]

Dr. Clinpsyadvice -

I'm so frustrated. I have a GRE score of 1030. I'm trying to apply to clinical psychology ph.d. programs (and low programs at that) 1100 GRE preferred. I've taken a prep course and the GRE 3 times.

Personal Statistics:
4 Research labs
1 first authorship
1 publication under preparation
8 conference presentations
Given talks for the National Library of Medicine
Pretigious postbac position
3.778 GPA

It's distressing my application. And all the people I'm contacting say to retake it. I don't think I can take the test anymore times. It's so anomalyous to my application. I've been told everything from 1. do I have a learning disability 2. is it anxiety 3. ?! I've been given the ring around to how there has to be something wrong with me because of my GRE score. Honestly, 1. are people going to look at my application based on my GRE score, I know you said they cut people off. But will mine even be considered? I have so much doubt in applying, there is just so much criticism over my scores. Do you have any advice how I could improve my application? or give me any hope what so ever?

--- Frustrated?!

 

[psydd]

Man. I wish we had the same kind of thread geared toward Psy.D. programs.

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Dr. Clinpsyadvice -

I'm so frustrated. I have a GRE score of 1030. I'm trying to apply to clinical psychology ph.d. programs (and low programs at that) 1100 GRE preferred. I've taken a prep course and the GRE 3 times.

Personal Statistics:
4 Research labs
1 first authorship
1 publication under preparation
8 conference presentations
Given talks for the National Library of Medicine
Pretigious postbac position
3.778 GPA

It's distressing my application. And all the people I'm contacting say to retake it. I don't think I can take the test anymore times. It's so anomalyous to my application. I've been told everything from 1. do I have a learning disability 2. is it anxiety 3. ?! I've been given the ring around to how there has to be something wrong with me because of my GRE score. Honestly, 1. are people going to look at my application based on my GRE score, I know you said they cut people off. But will mine even be considered? I have so much doubt in applying, there is just so much criticism over my scores. Do you have any advice how I could improve my application? or give me any hope what so ever?

--- Frustrated?!

I wish I could offer some optimistic info, but it is hard to know whether this application will get the attention it deserves. With so many applications to programs, the GRE (flawed as it may be) is used as a measure to whittle down applications to a reasonable number.

The best thing you could do is to have your letter writers contact professors at places you are applying to suggest that potential mentors look out for your application. If they can explain that the GRE does not accurately represent your potential, and that you have other strengths, then a potential mentor may be able to keep an eye out for your folder, make sure to carefully review your credentials, and fight for you to be considered.

You can also write to folks with the same plea, although it would be far stronger and more credible if someone did this for you.

Good luck.

 

[Fixer]

I have read every post in this thread and I am ready to ask my own questions.
I am an older student. I received a BBA (finance) from a top 10 business school in a major university in 1998. My GPA was 2.94. I was not a mature student and I was not particularly focused on academics or interested in the material. I worked a lot and played a lot. I did not take any psychology courses.
Since graduation I have been self employed. After 10 years negotiating commercial lease and purchase contracts and several other entrepreneurial ventures I found my work to be unfulfilling. I have a broad range of life and work experiences.
I went back to school and I will complete a MA in conflict management and dispute resolution in July 2009. I will graduate with a 3.75+ GPA. I have thoroughly enjoyed the study of people in conflict and I have gained an interest in the psychology of rage and resolution especially within family owned businesses. I am interested in research; however, I anticipate a career in private practice. I am interested in teaching as well.
I have not taken the GRE (I will take it in April) but I anticipate scoring 1200+. My SAT was 1200 and I have read about some correlation between the two and I have an interest in preparing for the GRE rather than “winging it” as I did with the SAT.
I have no research experience.
The programs I am considering would not be considered heavily research oriented. (No Michigan, UCLA or Yale aspirations).
So here are my questions:
1. Given that I have a year before I plan to apply (Dec 2009) how would you recommend I spend my time making myself a more attractive applicant? I am a “full time” student and I have lots of time on my hands.
2. There are several PhD programs in my area that I am interested in (proximity being a major factor). Would you advise gaining research experience in a program I am interested in attending?
3. Will my undergrad GPA eliminate me from consideration regardless of my Masters?
4. What should an “older student” with poor GPA emphasize to compete with younger, more academically prepared applicants?
5. I am having trouble locating active research related to conflict or rage. What are some research areas that may relate to this specific interest?
Thank you very much for your contribution to this forum.

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

I have read every post in this thread and I am ready to ask my own questions.
I am an older student. I received a BBA (finance) from a top 10 business school in a major university in 1998. My GPA was 2.94. I was not a mature student and I was not particularly focused on academics or interested in the material. I worked a lot and played a lot. I did not take any psychology courses.
Since graduation I have been self employed. After 10 years negotiating commercial lease and purchase contracts and several other entrepreneurial ventures I found my work to be unfulfilling. I have a broad range of life and work experiences.
I went back to school and I will complete a MA in conflict management and dispute resolution in July 2009. I will graduate with a 3.75+ GPA. I have thoroughly enjoyed the study of people in conflict and I have gained an interest in the psychology of rage and resolution especially within family owned businesses. I am interested in research; however, I anticipate a career in private practice. I am interested in teaching as well.
I have not taken the GRE (I will take it in April) but I anticipate scoring 1200+. My SAT was 1200 and I have read about some correlation between the two and I have an interest in preparing for the GRE rather than “winging it” as I did with the SAT.
I have no research experience.
The programs I am considering would not be considered heavily research oriented. (No Michigan, UCLA or Yale aspirations).
So here are my questions:

1. Given that I have a year before I plan to apply (Dec 2009) how would you recommend I spend my time making myself a more attractive applicant? I am a “full time” student and I have lots of time on my hands.


research experience!

2.There are several PhD programs in my area that I am interested in (proximity being a major factor). Would you advise gaining research experience in a program I am interested in attending?

perhaps, but many will not take someone who has worked in their lab as an RA already. be careful not to try and back door your way into a program

3.Will my undergrad GPA eliminate me from consideration regardless of my Masters?

not necessarily, but faculty may not know what to do with the MA grades in an unrelated field. You may want to think about taking a psych course or two.'

4.What should an “older student” with poor GPA emphasize to compete with younger, more academically prepared applicants?

good research experience will help a lot. a Masters program also may be a possible consideration

5.I am having trouble locating active research related to conflict or rage. What are some research areas that may relate to this specific interest?

try doing searches on aggression or antisocial personality disorder instead. You may find more people come up in your search if you look for these topics within clinical disorders

Thank you very much for your contribution to this forum.

.....

 

[scienceisbeauty]

Dr. Clinpsyadvice -

I'm so frustrated. I have a GRE score of 1030. I'm trying to apply to clinical psychology ph.d. programs (and low programs at that) 1100 GRE preferred. I've taken a prep course and the GRE 3 times.

Personal Statistics:
4 Research labs
1 first authorship
1 publication under preparation
8 conference presentations
Given talks for the National Library of Medicine
Pretigious postbac position
3.778 GPA

It's distressing my application. And all the people I'm contacting say to retake it. I don't think I can take the test anymore times. It's so anomalyous to my application. I've been told everything from 1. do I have a learning disability 2. is it anxiety 3. ?! I've been given the ring around to how there has to be something wrong with me because of my GRE score. Honestly, 1. are people going to look at my application based on my GRE score, I know you said they cut people off. But will mine even be considered? I have so much doubt in applying, there is just so much criticism over my scores. Do you have any advice how I could improve my application? or give me any hope what so ever?

--- Frustrated?!

I feel your pain. I took the GRE and got an 1180. Too low for the programs I am interested in. So I gave up. Just entirely : I had worked in 11 different labs, have 3 publications, and 2 in prep (3 first authored), I have 1 conference presentation and 1 invited talk with my previous supervisor. I have a 3.61 GPA but 3.84 in my last two years. 3.91 in my final year.
I just completely gave up.
Not the best of stories but I've gotten several PMs asking me where I went. So this I guess will answer questions.
But my low score was the result of I was wayyyyyyy too nervous while taking the test. AND the test administrator didin't give me enough scrap...I had to wait for 5 min before I was given new scrap paper.
I don't see a point FOR ME to waste money applying to places where people are way better -- higher GPA , higher GRE, more pubs or more research experience. FOR ME I just don't see it a well worth use of MY however much it costs to apply. But maybe for you it will be different.

 

[neelloc]

how important is the breakdown of the verbal/quant breakdown for gre scores? if your verbal score is above the median and your quant is below (thus making your overall score just around the numbers for the school) will that be sufficient?

thank you!

 

[myelin]

I feel your pain. I took the GRE and got an 1180. Too low for the programs I am interested in. So I gave up. Just entirely : I had worked in 11 different labs, have 3 publications, and 2 in prep (3 first authored), I have 1 conference presentation and 1 invited talk with my previous supervisor. I have a 3.61 GPA but 3.84 in my last two years. 3.91 in my final year.
I just completely gave up.
Not the best of stories but I've gotten several PMs asking me where I went. So this I guess will answer questions.
But my low score was the result of I was wayyyyyyy too nervous while taking the test. AND the test administrator didin't give me enough scrap...I had to wait for 5 min before I was given new scrap paper.
I don't see a point FOR ME to waste money applying to places where people are way better -- higher GPA , higher GRE, more pubs or more research experience. FOR ME I just don't see it a well worth use of MY however much it costs to apply. But maybe for you it will be different.

No, you can't just give up. I won't let you. You're telling me that you're going to let the GRE get the best of you? Your score isn't that low. I personally know people who got in to excellent clinical psychology programs with sub 1100 GRE and NO PUBLICATIONS. And you have how many? And how much research experience? You can't give up SIB, you just can't.

 

[cara susanna]

I agree with Myelin. You've worked too hard! Why not just apply and see where it goes?

 

[psybee]

what do you mean by given up? you still have time to do it. I know you wanted to test higher, but 1180 does not put you out of the running for many programs.

however, i can also see wanting to take a breather. grad school is stressful, and while you don't need to be a zen monk, stress management is an important part of handling the workload. i hope that you don't give up on your dream. you've worked very hard, and you should be very proud. it was clear from your posts that you've had a lot of anxiety attached to this process, and i think a few of us were afraid that this would happen. but honestly, to get an 1180, (with which, along with your excellent experience and high gpa, could get you into a well-matched program this cycle), to get a decent score with the kind of stress you've communicated makes me feel very strongly that you could score even higher next time. you still have many opportinities.


sometimes experiencing the thing you were afraid of can free you in a way, that's been true in my life, anyway.i've seen how supportive, encouraging and kind you've been to others on this board and I hope you direct that towards yourself as well.

good luck!

 

[psychgal80]

I have a question about the GREs. Looking over the averages for quantitative and verbal GRE scores, it appears that generally applicants to the clinical PhD programs have higher quantitative than verbal scores. How would competitive clinical PhD programs view a GRE of 1300, but with a greater than average discrepancy between scores, such as 770q/530v? If an applicant has strong research, LOR, clinical experience, and good GPA, would these GRE scores be a concern to an admissions committee? Lastly, would be it be considered appropriate to discuss GRE scores in a personal statement? Thank you!

 

[deleted176373]

I have a question about the GREs. Looking over the averages for quantitative and verbal GRE scores, it appears that generally applicants to the clinical PhD programs have higher quantitative than verbal scores. How would competitive clinical PhD programs view a GRE of 1300, but with a greater than average discrepancy between scores, such as 770q/530v? If an applicant has strong research, LOR, clinical experience, and good GPA, would these GRE scores be a concern to an admissions committee? Lastly, would be it be considered appropriate to discuss GRE scores in a personal statement? Thank you!

They normally look at them as a composite score, a 1300 is a 1300 basically. It really is just a hurdle in the admissions process, once you get past that screen it becomes far less important. I had a GRE of 1300 (740Q,560V) and I was competitive at a number of very good schools. Match is a far more important criteria and GRE's unless abnormally low as a composite score or as a result of English being a second language do not merit discussion in your personal statement.

Bottomline, your GRE scores should be fine at a large number of programs.

Mark

 

[deleted176373]

I feel your pain. I took the GRE and got an 1180. Too low for the programs I am interested in. So I gave up.

Just entirely : I had worked in 11 different labs, have 3 publications, and 2 in prep (3 first authored), I have 1 conference presentation and 1 invited talk with my previous supervisor. I have a 3.61 GPA but 3.84 in my last two years. 3.91 in my final year.
I just completely gave up.


I don't see a point FOR ME to waste money applying to places where people are way better -- higher GPA , higher GRE, more pubs or more research experience. FOR ME I just don't see it a well worth use of MY however much it costs to apply. But maybe for you it will be different.

You should not let that 1180 stop you. It's high enough that you will probably get looked at by a number of programs (good programs.) Sure, Penn, Stanford, Michigan, and Wisconsin may no longer be in the running but you would be surprised how far those publications will take you. I was beaten out in a number of interviews by people with lower GPA/GRE stats. It happens.

RE-TAKE the damn GRE, a bad test is just that, a bad test. If you score significantly higher you won't have a problem explaining what happened, especially if the scores are that close in proximity. You can make this lemon into lemonade very easily, showing how you are resilient in the face of adversity (GREAT Personal Statement Fodder.)

Mark

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

how important is the breakdown of the verbal/quant breakdown for gre scores? if your verbal score is above the median and your quant is below (thus making your overall score just around the numbers for the school) will that be sufficient?

thank you!

Hard to say. I think each individual looks at this differently. Mostly, I hear of people looking at each subscale individually.

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

I have a question about the GREs. Looking over the averages for quantitative and verbal GRE scores, it appears that generally applicants to the clinical PhD programs have higher quantitative than verbal scores. How would competitive clinical PhD programs view a GRE of 1300, but with a greater than average discrepancy between scores, such as 770q/530v? If an applicant has strong research, LOR, clinical experience, and good GPA, would these GRE scores be a concern to an admissions committee? Lastly, would be it be considered appropriate to discuss GRE scores in a personal statement? Thank you!

I think the GRE subscales are scaled slightly differently, so a percentile score is what you want to look at. I believe the Q score just skews higher, so high scores have lower percentiles than a comparable score on V. For a low V score, folks will look at your writing score and personal statement to try and get a sense of your writing abilities. If all else is good on your application, then go for it and see what happens. Your total is good!

As for writing about GREs, I would recommend a brief note in a cover letter (if you want to call attention to them at all). Even better, have one of your references send a note to folks at the schools you are applying to (if they have a connection) to let people know that you are a good catch and should not be overlooked.

But again, I am not sure it is worth calling attention to at all.

 

[leahyhl]

Hello,

Thank you, again, for being here for us. This process truly is onerous, and we all feel really lost! You're so helpful! My GPA is a 3.19, and my GRE scores are as follows: 630V and 660Q. I am applying to Counseling PhD programs, and Counseling Master's programs. I'd prefer to be admitted into a PhD, but I am not confident that my credentials are strong enough without a Master's degree.

I am writing because you mentioned that a GPA like mine needs to be addressed in my personal statement. I'm seeking your advice on how to gracefully do so.

I went to Miami OH for their undergraduate business school, as it is ranked 17th in the nation. As a business major, a GPA over 3.0 was all that was necessary to enter Corporate America. I went on to start a career at a major public relations agency. After a year in PR, I came to realize that I want a career as a psychologist. Luckily, I picked up psychology as a second major, for fun, halfway through college. I completed both degrees in four years. Now that I am applying to graduate school, my once acceptable GPA is suddenly sub-par. To finish my life-story, I now work full-time under a widely respected neuroeconomics research professor, and have gained invaluable research experience in the year that I've been here.

That said, what parts (if any) of this story do I share in my PS to "explain" my GPA? Moreover, is this an acceptable "explanation" in your opinion?

Thank you!

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Hello,

Thank you, again, for being here for us. This process truly is onerous, and we all feel really lost! You're so helpful! My GPA is a 3.19, and my GRE scores are as follows: 630V and 660Q. I am applying to Counseling PhD programs, and Counseling Master's programs. I'd prefer to be admitted into a PhD, but I am not confident that my credentials are strong enough without a Master's degree.

I am writing because you mentioned that a GPA like mine needs to be addressed in my personal statement. I'm seeking your advice on how to gracefully do so.

I went to Miami OH for their undergraduate business school, as it is ranked 17th in the nation. As a business major, a GPA over 3.0 was all that was necessary to enter Corporate America. I went on to start a career at a major public relations agency. After a year in PR, I came to realize that I want a career as a psychologist. Luckily, I picked up psychology as a second major, for fun, halfway through college. I completed both degrees in four years. Now that I am applying to graduate school, my once acceptable GPA is suddenly sub-par. To finish my life-story, I now work full-time under a widely respected neuroeconomics research professor, and have gained invaluable research experience in the year that I've been here.

That said, what parts (if any) of this story do I share in my PS to "explain" my GPA? Moreover, is this an acceptable "explanation" in your opinion?

Thank you!

Sorry - I just don't feel I know enough about counseling programs to offer sound advice.

 

[bluelight44]

Dear DrClinPsyAdvice:

I am wondering if the AW score in GRE will be paid as much attention as the other two sections? I am not too worried about my V & Q(640+800), I haven't received the AW score, I am not so confident with the AW as with the other parts. So I would want to know if the AW will also be one of the critical criteria as cutoff?


Thank you for your advice in advance.


Lola

 

[psydd]

is it safe to say that only having one full academic year's worth of research experience (honors thesis) isn't going to be enough to make it into a phd program?

 

[deleted176373]

is it safe to say that only having one full academic year's worth of research experience (honors thesis) isn't going to be enough to make it into a phd program?

No. I made it in with only 1 year of experience and an honors thesis, but it was a tough sell. My entire undergrad was only 5 semesters... However, you want more than that if you can. Active lab participation is so important, so get involved as early as possible. More research > less research.

Mark

 

[cara susanna]

Wow, that makes me feel better. Thanks for the info