Advice from Prof for Applicants to PhD Programs

[lavalubby111]

= advisor badge for profs (Dr.Neuro on the mentor forum has one)
Oh, and Mark - sorry for being so snippy before. I guess it's good for grad students to be answering or providing their opinions for qs if they can too since it offers a different perspective.

Anyway, that and I have a question ...you know Dr.ClinPsyAdvice how you said that publications are not that big a deal and often reflect the generousity of a professor -- does that apply to 1st authored pubs too? I just went to a conference about authorship and I heard that being first author means having carried out a lot of work and the like. I don't have any pubs, but it'd seem such a waste of effort to take so much time to get a 1st authored pub if it would only be glanced at as being not all that important.

Thanks!!!

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[GiantSteps]

First, thank you for taking time to help all of us here, I know you must be very busy, and your time is greatly appreciated.

I hope my question does not come off as whiny, so I apologize if I have trouble conveying the proper tone. When I got rejected from all of my grad programs in my undergraduate, I did my research and made a game plan - I went and earned my Master's in clinical psychology (3.7 GPA), I have 1200 GREs, I have taught 3 college courses independently (2 psych courses, and 2 of my classes were as a payed adjunct), I have 5 first-authored manuscripts either published or in review with another 4 in preparation (all should be out within the next two months), I have approximately 6 poster and paper presentations (all but one are first-authored), I have 3 psychology-related articles in nationally read magazines, I picked up a job as a behavior-therapist for children with autism, served as a RA for the Mayo Clinic, served a practicum working with behavior problems in children, and earned three outstanding letters of recommendation (with one professor proclaiming my likelihood of becoming nationally famous for my work (I humbly disagree, but appreciate it!)). I applied last year, and obviously things did not work out so well, but this year I have not even received an interview. At this point, the entire faculty, as well as myself, are left scratching our heads. I never expected the clinical programs to be beating down my door, but I would anticipate at least some recognition for my work.

So, now my question for you. What advice do you have to better my chances for next year? I understand you don't have access to my personal statement, information regarding match, etc., but with my research background, I hope you would give me the benefit of the doubt and credit me with doing my research before applying to maximize my chances. Do I have too much experience? Is it possible for professors to see my application as indicating it may be difficult to "re-train" me to their methods? What little feedback I've had seems to center on my vitae looking better than the average graduating clinical student - is this disadvantageous?

Okay - a bit too lengthy (sorry) But I do appreciate any advice you have. Thank you in advance.

Masters4life,

I know you want the Professors advice but your message was very interesting so I just wanted to state the following questions/ comments:

1. Some schools had admissions committees which were too anal to look past your GRE scores to see the true gems in your application. What can you do but try to make sure your scores are in the schools average range so you make the initial cut and get an interview.

2. Doesn't the school where you just got your MA in clinical psychology have a doctoral program? I would think they would want to keep you themselves since they know what a good student you are. I hope this in itself was not an issue for other schools.

3. You could recontact some of your POIs again to ask what happened although the Professor of this thread does not put much stock in that (see previous posts). Since you are well connected, I think you should have your own professors/ professional references contact you POI's or someone else in the department to ask what happened. They may be more frank in speaking to another professional than some student.

 

[masters4life]

Masters4life,

I know you want the Professors advice but your message was very interesting so I just wanted to state the following questions/ comments:

1. Some schools had admissions committees which were too anal to look past your GRE scores to see the true gems in your application. What can you do but try to make sure your scores are in the schools average range so you make the initial cut and get an interview.

2. Doesn't the school where you just got your MA in clinical psychology have a doctoral program? I would think they would want to keep you themselves since they know what a good student you are. I hope this in itself was not an issue for other schools.

3. You could recontact some of your POIs again to ask what happened although the Professor of this thread does not put much stock in that (see previous posts). Since you are well connected, I think you should have your own professors/ professional references contact you POI's or someone else in the department to ask what happened. They may be more frank in speaking to another professional than some student.

I only applied to programs with a GRE cutoff of 1100-1200, so I knew I would at least be reviewed a little better. As for the program I'm at, it's a terminal master's designed to help students get into doctoral programs. And thanks for the advice on contacting the POIs, that's the game plan we have right now, but it's nice to hear that others agree that having my adviser call may be more beneficial.

 

[amy203]

masters4life, would you mind giving the exact breakdown of your GRE scores (verbal and quant)? I don't know if your GRE scores are why you didn't get any interviews but, considering this is a topic that comes up on this forum pretty often (i.e. whether low GRE scores can tank an otherwise amazing application), I'm really curious about what Dr.ClinPsyAdvice will have to say, and it would be nice to have all the available info.

 

[masters4life]

masters4life, would you mind giving the exact breakdown of your GRE scores (verbal and quant)? I don't know if your GRE scores are why you didn't get any interviews but, considering this is a topic that comes up on this forum pretty often (i.e. whether low GRE scores can tank an otherwise amazing application), I'm really curious about what Dr.ClinPsyAdvice will have to say, and it would be nice to have all the available info.

Hi. Verbal was a bit low (480) and my quant was okay (720), and my analytic was 5.5. Most programs I applied to were very explicit that they looked at combined scores of at least 1100 to 1200. And yes, I know that without looking at my packets personally, one cannot get a real sense of what I really looked like

I also applied to some programs who only receive approximately 60 applications, so there was a good chance they actually looked over all of my materials, unlike schools who receive a couple hundred applications and may use pretty strict cutoffs.

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

First, thank you for taking time to help all of us here, I know you must be very busy, and your time is greatly appreciated.

I hope my question does not come off as whiny, so I apologize if I have trouble conveying the proper tone. When I got rejected from all of my grad programs in my undergraduate, I did my research and made a game plan - I went and earned my Master's in clinical psychology (3.7 GPA), I have 1200 GREs, I have taught 3 college courses independently (2 psych courses, and 2 of my classes were as a payed adjunct), I have 5 first-authored manuscripts either published or in review with another 4 in preparation (all should be out within the next two months), I have approximately 6 poster and paper presentations (all but one are first-authored), I have 3 psychology-related articles in nationally read magazines, I picked up a job as a behavior-therapist for children with autism, served as a RA for the Mayo Clinic, served a practicum working with behavior problems in children, and earned three outstanding letters of recommendation (with one professor proclaiming my likelihood of becoming nationally famous for my work (I humbly disagree, but appreciate it!)). I applied last year, and obviously things did not work out so well, but this year I have not even received an interview. At this point, the entire faculty, as well as myself, are left scratching our heads. I never expected the clinical programs to be beating down my door, but I would anticipate at least some recognition for my work.

So, now my question for you. What advice do you have to better my chances for next year? I understand you don't have access to my personal statement, information regarding match, etc., but with my research background, I hope you would give me the benefit of the doubt and credit me with doing my research before applying to maximize my chances. Do I have too much experience? Is it possible for professors to see my application as indicating it may be difficult to "re-train" me to their methods? What little feedback I've had seems to center on my vitae looking better than the average graduating clinical student - is this disadvantageous?

Okay - a bit too lengthy (sorry) But I do appreciate any advice you have. Thank you in advance.

It's crazy out there! We have amazing applicants with terrific credentials, only to be trumped by others with even more amazing credentials. This year, nearly all of our semi-finalists had GREs above 1350!

Your GREs are a little low. And if the pubs and presentations are not at high quality places, it can actually backfire a bit. I don't think there's ever a problem of being over-qualified, however.

Sorry I can't provide more specific feedback. But you may want to sit down with a few folks at the kind of programs you are applying to and see if you can get specific feedback.

Good luck!

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

= advisor badge for profs (Dr.Neuro on the mentor forum has one)
Oh, and Mark - sorry for being so snippy before. I guess it's good for grad students to be answering or providing their opinions for qs if they can too since it offers a different perspective.

Anyway, that and I have a question ...you know Dr.ClinPsyAdvice how you said that publications are not that big a deal and often reflect the generousity of a professor -- does that apply to 1st authored pubs too? I just went to a conference about authorship and I heard that being first author means having carried out a lot of work and the like. I don't have any pubs, but it'd seem such a waste of effort to take so much time to get a 1st authored pub if it would only be glanced at as being not all that important.

Thanks!!!

Yup - first authorship is very important. And pubs do convey important info about an applicant. But they are not the end all-be all. It's just one more piece of info, and many, many folks out there do very well in the process without any pubs or presentations.

 

[psyc353]

Hi Dr. ClinPsych,

I have a question that is dealing with once someone has received acceptances to different programs and is trying to make the right choice about where to go. My question involves how much weight the prestige of the schools should factor into my decision in accepting an offer. I was made an offer at one school (prestigious institution, program looks good, competitive atmosphere but very interesting research) that is far more prestigious than another (whose program is brand new, and not as developed but where I really like the POI and the research is exactly what I want to do). Some people have advised that I am crazy if I pass up the prestigous school to go to the less prestigious school but I am really torn.

For my future career opportunities, will the prestige of my graduate institution matter a lot? please help!

THANK YOU!

 

[dontknowitall]

For my future career opportunities, will the prestige of my graduate institution matter a lot? please help!

THANK YOU!

I have a similar question. If I want an academic career in Clinical Psychology, what are the things I should be mindful of when picking my program? As psych353 asked, does prestige matter? Are there concrete things about an institution I can observe and weigh? Or is it more about how I will function within a given program? I am sure it is a little of both. So, in your opinion, what about a program helps develop a successful academic clinical psychologist? And, what about a a person helps them to develop as a successful academic clinical psychologist?

I know this is a somewhat complicated and broad question, but I am hoping the general nature of it can help a lot of people trying to figure out where to go.

Thanks again, your guidance is so appreciated!

 

[Liselaime]

1) I'm trying to decide between two Ph.D. programs. They are both good but not top tier programs. School A is a mediocre fit in terms of research interests--there's some stuff I'm interested in there, but they lack a multicultural focus, which is a big thing for me. School A has nominated me for an $18k fellowship. School B is a really good fit in terms of research interests--they have faculty doing research in every area that I've ever had an interest in, although I don't think that their publication rate is much higher than school A's. In addition, school B is only giving me an assistanceship, and it's only $9k (literally half the amount of school A). Money is a huge concern because my husband and I already have some $50k of debt in undergraduate student loans and don't want to borrow any more money (we would have to if I went to school B). How important is it to have a really good fit in terms of research interests? With school A, I discussed adding a multicultural/cross-cultural focus to some of their current research areas, and they seemed receptive. Regardless of where I go, I am going to be a motivated, industrious, and passionate researcher.

2) I have a 4.0 GPA, 1460 GRE (770V, 690Q), and 780 (94th percentile, 98th on social psych) on the psychology subject test. I have worked in three different research labs, all related to my current research interests, am completing an honors thesis with my own data which I plan to submit for publication, and am a co-author of a poster presentation. When I applied to Ph.D. programs last fall, I did not really consider or apply to the "top" schools in my field because I didn't think I would be a competitive applicant. Based on my stats, would I have been a competitive applicant? Should I try again next year with more prestigious programs, or was I accurate in assessing my chances?

PS: Thanks for any advice you can offer.

 

[deleted176373]

2) I have a 4.0 GPA, 1460 GRE (770V, 690Q), and 780 (94th percentile, 98th on social psych) on the psychology subject test. I have worked in three different research labs, all related to my current research interests, am completing an honors thesis with my own data which I plan to submit for publication, and am a co-author of a poster presentation. When I applied to Ph.D. programs last fall, I did not really consider or apply to the "top" schools in my field because I didn't think I would be a competitive applicant. Based on my stats, would I have been a competitive applicant? Should I try again next year with more prestigious programs, or was I accurate in assessing my chances?

PS: Thanks for any advice you can offer.

I will jump in here from what I have seen at some pretty competitive programs (University of Kansas, University of Texas, etc for instance) I think you're application will be at the top of most piles... I would reapply to the programs that you want. (That's my feel for it.)

I don't know if DCT has seen this but it appears that there are significant yearly fluctuations as well... this year could be really strong and next just average. Either way your scores put you well above 95% verbal and somewhere around 70-75% math. These are GREAT scores, especially the verbal. Your Psych GRE puts you in the top 5% of test takers... what do you think??? Yes, that's a strong performance... add in all the research experience and you are what they are looking for!

Mark

PS - Nice work, Liselaime

 

[ducle7]

1. What does it mean if a psychology department doesn't seem to have much funding (grad students get mediocre stipends, not much $ for conferences...are these even good indicators of whether the dept is well funded?)

2. What are the most important things to be successfully matched to your top internship choices? (reputation of your mentor, personal characteristics of applicant, pubs, reputation of the dept as a whole?)

Thanks, I'm trying to decide which prgs to attend as well, and it's certainly difficult!

 

[Ilovecows]

If so, then oops. I'm just having a mini-scare

If one's mark is significantly discrepant from class average - would this be a problem when looking at one's transcript? Would it cause any red flags? Even if a transcript is not so carefully scrutinized would they be alarmed if they did notice it? I'm making reference to a 4th year seminar (10 people) research practicum. I got a B+ : the class average was A. This was due to some personal medical/emotional issues during that course.

I'm scared I just flushed my chances of everything down the drain. I'm finding it hard to be optimistic when there are so many reasons for discrediting an application, so many good applicants.... that even the littlest thing can be a downfall.

Help?

Thanks!

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Ilovecows....it doesn't matter. Don't stress yourself out over a B+, regardless of what others received.

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Hi Dr. ClinPsych,

I have a question that is dealing with once someone has received acceptances to different programs and is trying to make the right choice about where to go. My question involves how much weight the prestige of the schools should factor into my decision in accepting an offer. I was made an offer at one school (prestigious institution, program looks good, competitive atmosphere but very interesting research) that is far more prestigious than another (whose program is brand new, and not as developed but where I really like the POI and the research is exactly what I want to do). Some people have advised that I am crazy if I pass up the prestigous school to go to the less prestigious school but I am really torn.

For my future career opportunities, will the prestige of my graduate institution matter a lot? please help!

THANK YOU!

Ok, tough choices.....

1. You must Produce no matter where you go. So, a prestigious school will mean little if you have nothing else on the CV
2. If the likelihood of meeting #1 is a constant at both places, then think of the name recognition of the advisor. A great advisor at a less prestigious place can be more powerful then the reverse. This is a small field and your professional 'family' or lineage can be as, or more important than the school name.
3. If 1 and 2 are equal across your choices, then decide - which has a climate that fits you best? Where will you be happy and which place will help you develop (personally and professionally) over the next five years. A top place and top advisor at a cut-throat institution may make you stressed and unhappy, ultimately leading to disenfranchisement with the field.
4. If 1, 2, and 3 are equal, then go to the more prestigious school. And don't listen to anyone who tells you that you are crazy. It's your career, and 5+ years of your life!

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

I have a similar question. If I want an academic career in Clinical Psychology, what are the things I should be mindful of when picking my program? As psych353 asked, does prestige matter? Are there concrete things about an institution I can observe and weigh? Or is it more about how I will function within a given program? I am sure it is a little of both. So, in your opinion, what about a program helps develop a successful academic clinical psychologist? And, what about a a person helps them to develop as a successful academic clinical psychologist?

I know this is a somewhat complicated and broad question, but I am hoping the general nature of it can help a lot of people trying to figure out where to go.

Thanks again, your guidance is so appreciated!

For a successful academic career, it will be very important to accrue high quality pubs and grants. A top school and mentor may help with landing those pubs and grants, and may help with resources and opportunities. And it is true that there is some name brand value in coming from a great place. But you will evaluated on much more than the name of your school in the future.

Another issue that is very important, but infrequently discussed among students, is the training environment. The community of scholars, the constellation of classes, pracs, and collaborators in your area, the value placed on your work within that program (or dept), and the theoretical orientation of the program will substantially influence the type of professional you will become. A mismatch can cause distress and dissatisfaction. Students at a place where they feel they are not getting necessary or relevant training often decline in performance and mood. Take all of these things into consideration.

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

1) I'm trying to decide between two Ph.D. programs. They are both good but not top tier programs. School A is a mediocre fit in terms of research interests--there's some stuff I'm interested in there, but they lack a multicultural focus, which is a big thing for me. School A has nominated me for an $18k fellowship. School B is a really good fit in terms of research interests--they have faculty doing research in every area that I've ever had an interest in, although I don't think that their publication rate is much higher than school A's. In addition, school B is only giving me an assistanceship, and it's only $9k (literally half the amount of school A). Money is a huge concern because my husband and I already have some $50k of debt in undergraduate student loans and don't want to borrow any more money (we would have to if I went to school B). How important is it to have a really good fit in terms of research interests? With school A, I discussed adding a multicultural/cross-cultural focus to some of their current research areas, and they seemed receptive. Regardless of where I go, I am going to be a motivated, industrious, and passionate researcher.

2) I have a 4.0 GPA, 1460 GRE (770V, 690Q), and 780 (94th percentile, 98th on social psych) on the psychology subject test. I have worked in three different research labs, all related to my current research interests, am completing an honors thesis with my own data which I plan to submit for publication, and am a co-author of a poster presentation. When I applied to Ph.D. programs last fall, I did not really consider or apply to the "top" schools in my field because I didn't think I would be a competitive applicant. Based on my stats, would I have been a competitive applicant? Should I try again next year with more prestigious programs, or was I accurate in assessing my chances?

PS: Thanks for any advice you can offer.

Sounds like you are a very competitive applicant for high ranked places. As for decisions, check out the posts above for points to consider in making decisions...

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

1. What does it mean if a psychology department doesn't seem to have much funding (grad students get mediocre stipends, not much $ for conferences...are these even good indicators of whether the dept is well funded?)

2. What are the most important things to be successfully matched to your top internship choices? (reputation of your mentor, personal characteristics of applicant, pubs, reputation of the dept as a whole?)

Thanks, I'm trying to decide which prgs to attend as well, and it's certainly difficult!

Funding could mean a poor department, poor institution, poor State. If it will not affect the likelihood of you getting a decent stipend, and you can survive on what is offered to you, I would not let this issue affect your decision at all. In other words, department funding levels are not highly correlated with quality of education and potential for future success.

As for internship, it is a very complicated process that has a lot to do with the clinical experience you accrue while in grad school. The school name may matter some, but the advisor name and number of pubs will matter substantially less (except for at a few research-oriented internships).

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

If so, then oops. I'm just having a mini-scare

If one's mark is significantly discrepant from class average - would this be a problem when looking at one's transcript? Would it cause any red flags? Even if a transcript is not so carefully scrutinized would they be alarmed if they did notice it? I'm making reference to a 4th year seminar (10 people) research practicum. I got a B+ : the class average was A. This was due to some personal medical/emotional issues during that course.

I'm scared I just flushed my chances of everything down the drain. I'm finding it hard to be optimistic when there are so many reasons for discrediting an application, so many good applicants.... that even the littlest thing can be a downfall.

Help?

Thanks!

The transcript does not include any information about the class average. Just your grade. Please see my private message to you as well....

 

[thewesternsky]

Dear DrClinPsyAdvice,
It looks like I may be in for another round of applications next year (potentially my third round). I got 3 interviews this year, but those profs were interviewing 4-6 students for each acceptance and I was not the student selected at each of the three schools. Though I have not received official rejections, I am pretty sure that these schools do not use waitlists.

Clearly I need to work at selling myself at interviews more, because I felt that two of these schools were great matches... Anyway, my question:

I know you mentioned earlier that "it is rare to get accepted at a school that already interviewed you and rejected you. ....I'd find out more about why someone was denied a slot the first time around before making a decision on whether to apply again." I'd love to apply to two of these schools again-- I loved everything I learned on interview day about the labs and the program. Should I apply to these schools again next year? Send an email in the fall asking my POIs if I should reapply? Ask my POIs now why I was not selected and then reapply depending on what they say?

Thank you so much for your advice.

 

[deleted176373]

Dear DrClinPsyAdvice,

I know you mentioned earlier that "it is rare to get accepted at a school that already interviewed you and rejected you. ....I'd find out more about why someone was denied a slot the first time around before making a decision on whether to apply again."

Thank you so much for your advice.

I will say this just so you know... at the program I am attending, I applied twice and it seems to be common that people get in here with more than one attempt. If you get invited back for an interview, they ARE interested in you. Many times they will allow a second year consideration for free, so why wouldn't you re-apply?

We are interviewing someone today who didn't make the cut last year because they lacked research experience, well this year they have it... and they were invited back for an interview. I think they have an excellent chance.

So while many schools will only look at you once, some schools will look at you more than once.

Mark

 

[ducle7]

I've also heard that it's rare to get into a program that rejected you the first time. This definitely happened with me. I applied to about 6 progs this year that I had applied to and got rejected from last year (some with interviews). and roughly 13 new progs--I got interviews from all the new progs (which are about the same quality of the older ones), and more than 1 offer so far (so clearly my application was good...so I'm assuming the old progs just saw I was a reapplicant and threw my app out b/c of that)

If I were u, I would choose just 2/3 of the old schools that u think are a perfect match for u and add in a whole bunch of new ones.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

....I'm assuming the old progs just saw I was a reapplicant and threw my app out b/c of that

That isn't my experience, at least based on people I've talked with. You may not be any better of a match, maybe your GRE didn't make the cut, or a plethora of other reasons. Sometimes you *are* a great fit, but so is someone else....and they get the spot in that particular year.

 

[AlairaK]

DrClinPsy,

I just read a post where you informed someone that clinical experience is a large factor in internship matching, but I am somewhat at a loss for understanding this process.

I am still going crazy trying to decide between two offers which have been made to me, and aside from stipends, location, comfort-level with the people, etc, I am trying to decide at which school I have the best chance of being matched for internship.

Most PhD clinical psychology applicants have clinical experience, so what explains the 743 people this year that were NOT matched for internship? I don't want to be one of that number! A professor of mine said that the individuals she saw who were not matched either 1) applied to too few programs (limiting their options thereby), 2) applied to too many programs (evidence of not having done enough research into how well they matched with the program), or 3) applied to a program with a theoretical orientation vastly different from their own.

If this is largely so, then internship has less to do with where you receive your PhD and more to do with logging enough clinical hours and doing your research as far as WHERE to apply for your internship (much like PhD applications).

Would you agree with this? Can you add anything? If you disagree, what WOULD you say accounts for people not matching to an internship?

And, if clinical training is such a large factor, can you please elaborate? Is it simply the number of hours logged? Or does it involve having experience in a variety of practicum sites, or dealing with empirically validated methodology only, or is it more about matching with the orientation of the program?

Help!

 

[deleted176373]

1) applied to too few programs (limiting their options thereby),
2) applied to too many programs (evidence of not having done enough research into how well they matched with the program), or
3) applied to a program with a theoretical orientation vastly different from their own.

I am no expert, but from what I have seen...

1. I agree, some people simply cannot afford to move.

2. I disagree, I think everyone who is smart enough to earn a Ph.D. probably has enough smarts to figure out how to match. I think other issues are at play.

3. Once again, these kind of rookie mistakes are common from undergrad to grad school, but at this point we expect more sophistication.

So what do I think is going on?

1. Geographical limitations. Huge issue. I think #1 is right on the money!

2. Over estimation of one's competitiveness for programs is incredibly tough. Think about it, by this point all the less motivated and less intellectually apt (not to sound egotistical) have been weeded out. Only those who WANT to be remain at this point with rare exception!

3. Simply put there are not enough programs for qualified applicants to land in, so the result is that the less than optimal, but fair as fair can be matching system leads many applicants out in the cold. Who here thinks that T4C with his incredible ability to pay it forward should be in the clearinghouse... yet here he is! It's not right and it's not a perfect system.

Mark

 

[cogsciapp]

Thanks once again for your advice. My situation is a bit frustrating. I applied to 5 clin psych PhD programs with a clear cognitive science bent. I would have applied to just cognitive programs, but I am more interested in looking at clinical in a cognitive perspective more than the other way around.

I received 4 interviews and one out right rejection (not surprised). It first seemed that four more rejects were on the way; but then got waitlisted at one (who, at the interview said I was a perfect fit and they hoped to see me in the fall); waitlisted at a second very promising program that I liked a lot; withdrew one application where I possibly could have had an offer, but a grad student asked me a totally inappropriate question, and if I went there, we'd be working in the same lab. I received one offer from my lowest ranked school. I'd be willing to go there, but wonder if I can put together a more competitive package for next year. I don't think I can do much about my stats; I don't think they were the problem (730V, 720Q, 770 Psych, 5.0 AW; 3.9 GPA). It seems that something went wrong in the interview, but many I met with were very encouraging. I have no pubs, mainly because I've been helping to develop two new studies from the beginning, including the grant proposal, lit review, coming up with hypotheses, looking carefully at methodology and design, and being trained to run eye-link equipment. I have skills in SPSS from another class, but not with my own data.

My question, after this long introduction, would it be unprofessional or show instability to ask these programs for which I am waitlisted if they would consider my application for their cognitive/experimental program instead (especially when one of these programs said they were 50-50 sci-pract and I said I liked that balance)? For me, it would not be back door to clinical later on, as the main reason I wanted the clinical training was so that I could do neuropsych assessments, but I'm mostly interested in research. I applied to work with both cognitive and clinical faculty at all the schools. Or is it better to try again next year for cognitive and forget the clinical battle?

Thanks for your advice!

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Dear DrClinPsyAdvice,
It looks like I may be in for another round of applications next year (potentially my third round). I got 3 interviews this year, but those profs were interviewing 4-6 students for each acceptance and I was not the student selected at each of the three schools. Though I have not received official rejections, I am pretty sure that these schools do not use waitlists.

Clearly I need to work at selling myself at interviews more, because I felt that two of these schools were great matches... Anyway, my question:

I know you mentioned earlier that "it is rare to get accepted at a school that already interviewed you and rejected you. ....I'd find out more about why someone was denied a slot the first time around before making a decision on whether to apply again." I'd love to apply to two of these schools again-- I loved everything I learned on interview day about the labs and the program. Should I apply to these schools again next year? Send an email in the fall asking my POIs if I should reapply? Ask my POIs now why I was not selected and then reapply depending on what they say?

Thank you so much for your advice.

yup - you should contact them. they may have just run out of funding and did not have a slot for you. or it may be something that you can improve on for next year. Either of those reasons would suggest that reapplying could be successful

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

DrClinPsy,

I just read a post where you informed someone that clinical experience is a large factor in internship matching, but I am somewhat at a loss for understanding this process.

I am still going crazy trying to decide between two offers which have been made to me, and aside from stipends, location, comfort-level with the people, etc, I am trying to decide at which school I have the best chance of being matched for internship.

Most PhD clinical psychology applicants have clinical experience, so what explains the 743 people this year that were NOT matched for internship? I don't want to be one of that number! A professor of mine said that the individuals she saw who were not matched either 1) applied to too few programs (limiting their options thereby), 2) applied to too many programs (evidence of not having done enough research into how well they matched with the program), or 3) applied to a program with a theoretical orientation vastly different from their own.

If this is largely so, then internship has less to do with where you receive your PhD and more to do with logging enough clinical hours and doing your research as far as WHERE to apply for your internship (much like PhD applications).

Would you agree with this? Can you add anything? If you disagree, what WOULD you say accounts for people not matching to an internship?

And, if clinical training is such a large factor, can you please elaborate? Is it simply the number of hours logged? Or does it involve having experience in a variety of practicum sites, or dealing with empirically validated methodology only, or is it more about matching with the orientation of the program?

Help!

I agree with your advisor - it is very much about the match.
This year's acceptance rate at internships has a lot to do with a small number of schools producing a large number of graduates that flood the internship market.
The number of hours is NOT related to internship application success (unless you have a remarkably low # - several standard deviations below the mean).
Internship application success is an important variable, but only 1 of many ways that your doctoral institution will be important for your career. Don't focus too much on this one factor!

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Thanks once again for your advice. My situation is a bit frustrating. I applied to 5 clin psych PhD programs with a clear cognitive science bent. I would have applied to just cognitive programs, but I am more interested in looking at clinical in a cognitive perspective more than the other way around.

I received 4 interviews and one out right rejection (not surprised). It first seemed that four more rejects were on the way; but then got waitlisted at one (who, at the interview said I was a perfect fit and they hoped to see me in the fall); waitlisted at a second very promising program that I liked a lot; withdrew one application where I possibly could have had an offer, but a grad student asked me a totally inappropriate question, and if I went there, we'd be working in the same lab. I received one offer from my lowest ranked school. I'd be willing to go there, but wonder if I can put together a more competitive package for next year. I don't think I can do much about my stats; I don't think they were the problem (730V, 720Q, 770 Psych, 5.0 AW; 3.9 GPA). It seems that something went wrong in the interview, but many I met with were very encouraging. I have no pubs, mainly because I've been helping to develop two new studies from the beginning, including the grant proposal, lit review, coming up with hypotheses, looking carefully at methodology and design, and being trained to run eye-link equipment. I have skills in SPSS from another class, but not with my own data.

My question, after this long introduction, would it be unprofessional or show instability to ask these programs for which I am waitlisted if they would consider my application for their cognitive/experimental program instead (especially when one of these programs said they were 50-50 sci-pract and I said I liked that balance)? For me, it would not be back door to clinical later on, as the main reason I wanted the clinical training was so that I could do neuropsych assessments, but I'm mostly interested in research. I applied to work with both cognitive and clinical faculty at all the schools. Or is it better to try again next year for cognitive and forget the clinical battle?

Thanks for your advice!

Lost of details in here. Sure - you can call these places and chat about what happened. In many cases, there is just not enough funding to make as many offers as they would like. I am very sad to learn of your bad experience in one interview that led you to withdraw your application. You may want to consider professionally sharing some feedback with that program - not only in hopes that the student will have an opportunity to learn from their mistakes and be appropriately trained, but also to let the faculty know of your real interest in the program and in their research (remember, today's interviewers are tomorrow's manuscript and grant reviewers, and potential collaborators!).

 

[Ilovecows]

Authorship. Authorship. Authorship. It's a tricky situation sometimes, and I'm sort of wondering...
I'm working with a professor, I read his research was immediately intrigued,e-mailed him and I suggested a research idea that we could work on together. It's both somewhat an extension of and something completely novel than his previous work.

Now, I'm not sure how to ask: I want to ask him what the author order for any paper we write together should be.

A few professors (not at my home uni) have told me to act immediately to ask, others have told me to wait until we get into more of the thick of it. We've just finished up writing up an ethics proposal that I prepared almost entirely alone. (to mark the stage we're at now) So, What do you think?

I want to be diplomatic. But I don't know...when should I ask?

Thanks Dr.ClinPsyAdvice.

 

[Ilovecows]

I miss Dr.ClinPsyAdvice

+ A question: My friend got an interview at some school, PhD clinical, a good school, and she was asked if she'd ever been to see a psychiatrist. She was really irritated at the question and thought it was none of the professor's business. Why would someone ask something like this? How should one answer in this situation? Can someone lie?

Thanks Dr.ClinPsyAdvice,
Ilovecows

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I miss Dr.ClinPsyAdvice

It is a busy time of year with conferences, mid-terms, etc....but I'm sure they will pop in eventually.

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Authorship. Authorship. Authorship. It's a tricky situation sometimes, and I'm sort of wondering...
I'm working with a professor, I read his research was immediately intrigued,e-mailed him and I suggested a research idea that we could work on together. It's both somewhat an extension of and something completely novel than his previous work.

Now, I'm not sure how to ask: I want to ask him what the author order for any paper we write together should be.

A few professors (not at my home uni) have told me to act immediately to ask, others have told me to wait until we get into more of the thick of it. We've just finished up writing up an ethics proposal that I prepared almost entirely alone. (to mark the stage we're at now) So, What do you think?

I want to be diplomatic. But I don't know...when should I ask?

Thanks Dr.ClinPsyAdvice.

It's always good to chat about these things early in the process. A diplomatic way is to ask, "What can I do on this project that would help me to earn authorship?"

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

I miss Dr.ClinPsyAdvice

+ A question: My friend got an interview at some school, PhD clinical, a good school, and she was asked if she'd ever been to see a psychiatrist. She was really irritated at the question and thought it was none of the professor's business. Why would someone ask something like this? How should one answer in this situation? Can someone lie?

Thanks Dr.ClinPsyAdvice,
Ilovecows

This seems like an unusual and inappropriate question to ask! Lying is never a good idea, but I suppose one could suggest that they feel this question is not relevant to their application. ??

 

[dontknowitall]

This seems like an unusual and inappropriate question to ask! Lying is never a good idea, but I suppose one could suggest that they feel this question is not relevant to their application. ??

I asked a friend of mine about this possible scenario (thankfully nobody asked it!) and she gave some helpful advice. She said not to lie, but work it back into being relevant to your application and you being an applicant to a graduate program.

Something like, "Yes, and I think its important to have the perspective of both the patient and the clinician, etc. etc." and expound upon that.

I thought it was a good way to be honest and take control of the situation, instead of feeling like you will be judged or embarassed for at one time or possibly many times seeking psychotherapuetic help.

 

[bluelight44]

Dear ClinPsyAdvice:

I have a question about how much weight the face-to-face interview accounts for in the admission decision. During the interview, my POI told me that " I am the most interested in you among all the candidates, because you have very strong credentials, blah" And he also said we should talk again later since the time was not enough that day (he never contacted me since then though). It seems I should keep positive because I ranked not low in the list before the interview and I felt the conversation with him was not bad either. But I am still a little worried and really want to know whether the on-site interview could change the candidates' ranking significantly? In what condition it would happen? And I haven't heard from the dept for nearly two weeks, is it a bad sign?

Thank you very much for your time and help!

 

[Ilovecows]

Happy to have you back

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Dear ClinPsyAdvice:

I have a question about how much weight the face-to-face interview accounts for in the admission decision. During the interview, my POI told me that " I am the most interested in you among all the candidates, because you have very strong credentials, blah" And he also said we should talk again later since the time was not enough that day (he never contacted me since then though). It seems I should keep positive because I ranked not low in the list before the interview and I felt the conversation with him was not bad either. But I am still a little worried and really want to know whether the on-site interview could change the candidates' ranking significantly? In what condition it would happen? And I haven't heard from the dept for nearly two weeks, is it a bad sign?

Thank you very much for your time and help!

It can vary so much from advisor to advisor and school to school. Some mentors feel that they have enough information from one's objective credentials, and others place heavy weight on the match that is assessed in person through interpersonal interactions and intangibles that cannot be assessed objectively.

As for the two week delay, this can be due to a number of possible factors that may have nothing to do with you, necessarily (e.g., funding issues, etc). It may not be a bad idea to send a brief note reiterating your interest and offering to provide any additional information they may need. It's a busy time of year and they may just need a subtle reminder to touch base with you about progress

 

[Ilovecows]

It's always good to chat about these things early in the process. A diplomatic way is to ask, "What can I do on this project that would help me to earn authorship?"

Oh!, I think I must have not been clear in my last question, but what I meant to ask was : author order -- I know I'll be an author, I approached him, proposed the idea, and when this professor and I speak, we speak of the paper we will write together. I just want to sort out with him who's name will go 1st, 2nd.

I want to ask nicely, and also I think I deserve to be 1st........

How do I do this diplomatically? Ask nicely?

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Oh!, I think I must have not been clear in my last question, but what I meant to ask was : author order -- I know I'll be an author, I approached him, proposed the idea, and when this professor and I speak, we speak of the paper we will write together. I just want to sort out with him who's name will go 1st, 2nd.

I want to ask nicely, and also I think I deserve to be 1st........

How do I do this diplomatically? Ask nicely?

Perhaps state that you understand it is important to discuss these things in advance, and you would like to learn how these decisions are made. Ask whether there were any expectations at this point about author order and whether you are correct in expecting that this is one that you could take the lead on. You may acknowledge that there may be issues related to authorship that you may not know about it (funding, prior agreements, etc) so you thought it would be good to have a discussion early on

 

[Ilovecows]

I was wondering...if one were to take the GRE under non-standard conditions, would this be of concern to the professors evaluating my file?
I haven't decided yet whether I wanted to do this...but....I ...don't know. My neurologist said this might be a good idea.

From reading the gre.org website, it says that if the test is taken with accomodations, then it has a note listing that with your scores - "test taken under non-standard conditions".

Would professors ask me? Would they even notice? I know they are "not allowed" to discriminate, but......I don't know...I don't want it to cause red flags.

Thanks a ton!
Appreciatively,

Ilovecows

 

[dlpfc]

Dear Dr.ClinPsyAdvice,

Here is my situation: I want to be a clinical neuropsychologist and I want to get the best possible training so that I can get a job at a prestigious institution in the U.S. when I am finished. I am Canadian so I applied to a number of programs in the U.S. and a few Canadian programs. After interviewing at 3 very well-known U.S. programs with neuropsych specializations, I really have my heart set on going to one of these schools rather than settling for less prestigious programs. I have been offered acceptances to 2 Canadian clinical programs that, in my opinion, do not compare to the 3 U.S. ones in terms of numerous factors such as research interests, prestige, clinical training, course work, etc. If I do not get accepted to one of my top choices this year, I would like to reapply to them next year.

My question is this: Which do you think would most increase my chances of getting into one of my top picks next year: (a) work as an RA for a very well-known neuropsychologist who actually conducts research with many of my POIs at my top 3; OR (b) attend one of the programs I have been accepted to and start working towards a Master's degree (although it is unlikely I could finish it in one yr, as students at both programs tend to take 2 yrs to finish their MAs)

Thanks,

dlpfc

 

[thewesternsky]

Dear Dr.ClinPsyAdvice,

Here is my situation: I want to be a clinical neuropsychologist and I want to get the best possible training so that I can get a job at a prestigious institution in the U.S. when I am finished. I am Canadian so I applied to a number of programs in the U.S. and a few Canadian programs. After interviewing at 3 very well-known U.S. programs with neuropsych specializations, I really have my heart set on going to one of these schools rather than settling for less prestigious programs. I have been offered acceptances to 2 Canadian clinical programs that, in my opinion, do not compare to the 3 U.S. ones in terms of numerous factors such as research interests, prestige, clinical training, course work, etc. If I do not get accepted to one of my top choices this year, I would like to reapply to them next year.

My question is this: Which do you think would most increase my chances of getting into one of my top picks next year: (a) work as an RA for a very well-known neuropsychologist who actually conducts research with many of my POIs at my top 3; OR (b) attend one of the programs I have been accepted to and start working towards a Master's degree (although it is unlikely I could finish it in one yr, as students at both programs tend to take 2 yrs to finish their MAs)

Thanks,

dlpfc

I'm sure the professor will mention this, but I want to STRONGLY caution you away from option B, especially if you plan to begin the program without mentioning this plan to your supervisor. Your supervisor and school will be investing a large amount of time and money in your training, and your departure will hurt this school's attrition rates.

Option A sounds good, but try not to worry about it for now. You could still be accepted to one of the American schools. Good luck!

 

[violetmoonwater]

Hello,

Thank you for the time and help you have provided to this thread.

I am starting the process of considering a PhD in Clinical Psychology. I am 10 years out of undergrad, though I have earned an Ivy League MBA along the way. My undergrad degree was in a science/engineering field, though I have no psychology background.

I greatly enjoy reading published psychology research for personal enlightenment, and after much soul-searching I believe that this is the field for me. I know which areas within clinical psychology interest me, though I have no formal academic training nor research to my name. As I work a highly demanding full-time job, I'm not sure what research opportunities may be available to me, if any.

My question, what should I do to improve my chances of acceptance to a program given my lack of background and research. I believe I have a clear reason for going into the field, and can get strong recommendations, and also test well (though I haven't taken the GRE yet). Would my application have a reasonable chance of being viewed?
Thanks.

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

I was wondering...if one were to take the GRE under non-standard conditions, would this be of concern to the professors evaluating my file?
I haven't decided yet whether I wanted to do this...but....I ...don't know. My neurologist said this might be a good idea.

From reading the gre.org website, it says that if the test is taken with accomodations, then it has a note listing that with your scores - "test taken under non-standard conditions".

Would professors ask me? Would they even notice? I know they are "not allowed" to discriminate, but......I don't know...I don't want it to cause red flags.

Thanks a ton!
Appreciatively,

Ilovecows

Not sure if it would be noticed. If it was, there probably would not be a negative attribution about this. Someone may ask along the way what this was for, but I doubt it would cause you to be evaluated negatively.

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Dear Dr.ClinPsyAdvice,

Here is my situation: I want to be a clinical neuropsychologist and I want to get the best possible training so that I can get a job at a prestigious institution in the U.S. when I am finished. I am Canadian so I applied to a number of programs in the U.S. and a few Canadian programs. After interviewing at 3 very well-known U.S. programs with neuropsych specializations, I really have my heart set on going to one of these schools rather than settling for less prestigious programs. I have been offered acceptances to 2 Canadian clinical programs that, in my opinion, do not compare to the 3 U.S. ones in terms of numerous factors such as research interests, prestige, clinical training, course work, etc. If I do not get accepted to one of my top choices this year, I would like to reapply to them next year.

My question is this: Which do you think would most increase my chances of getting into one of my top picks next year: (a) work as an RA for a very well-known neuropsychologist who actually conducts research with many of my POIs at my top 3; OR (b) attend one of the programs I have been accepted to and start working towards a Master's degree (although it is unlikely I could finish it in one yr, as students at both programs tend to take 2 yrs to finish their MAs)

Thanks,

dlpfc

Absolutely A.
B would be disruptive both to you, and to the program.

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Hello,

Thank you for the time and help you have provided to this thread.

I am starting the process of considering a PhD in Clinical Psychology. I am 10 years out of undergrad, though I have earned an Ivy League MBA along the way. My undergrad degree was in a science/engineering field, though I have no psychology background.

I greatly enjoy reading published psychology research for personal enlightenment, and after much soul-searching I believe that this is the field for me. I know which areas within clinical psychology interest me, though I have no formal academic training nor research to my name. As I work a highly demanding full-time job, I'm not sure what research opportunities may be available to me, if any.

My question, what should I do to improve my chances of acceptance to a program given my lack of background and research. I believe I have a clear reason for going into the field, and can get strong recommendations, and also test well (though I haven't taken the GRE yet). Would my application have a reasonable chance of being viewed?
Thanks.

Without some research experience, it will be an uphill battle for your application. It is very difficult for full time employed folks in another line of work to get research experience. But it is an extremely valuable part of your application and worth a sacrifice somewhere if you are shooting for a PhD program. This may be especially the case for someone without a psychology background.

 

[cogsciapp]

Hello,

Thank you for your advice.

I had four interviews, and one acceptance (applied to five). Because the one acceptance is not the greatest fit, I am thinking of reapplying next year.

I think the weakest part of my application was research experience. I have four semesters of it, but our studies had trouble getting started (thanks IRB), so I have no data analysis experience in this lab, but should have it by the summer.

I am wondering how I can really best improve my research experience between now and December 15. Every place I interviewed was aware of my experience and what I hoped to accomplish by next fall. So, there would not be a significant difference between what I have now, and what I would be able to add to my application next fall.

Also, because I am committed to this lab through the summer, I cannot get another RA position until the fall, leaving me at most two months working with someone else, which does not give time for letters of recommendation or much new experience.

My question is: do I then need to take another TWO years before I reapply, or could I reapply again this December, i.e., would admissions committees realize that although my application is about the same as it was last year, that by the time I would come for an interview and then be admitted (hopefully) that I would be in a different position research-wise?

Thank you!

 

[kyril]

Dear Dr,

Ah, this process is almost over for all of us! My last question to you was about interviewing -- well that interview led to an acceptance, which led to the offer of a great fellowship! I am so excited to now be able to go to this school -- it's the first place I interviewed at, and the first one to get back to applicants. I just found out about the fellowship via phone, and while I responded that I was thrilled, honored, etc., I still needed a week or two since i haven't heard back from any of the other schools yet. I went on a bunch of interviews, and I was left with 4 schools, including this one, that I would be over the moon to attend. So my question is, was it rude to ask for a few more weeks? I'm a nice midwestern person, and it's painful to not give others what they want, but I also want to honor the hard work I've put in by giving due to the 3 other programs i can see myself at. This whole experience is so intense, now I worry that not accepting the offer right away may somehow put the offer of funding at risk. Really, all I need is one more week or so -- by march 22 it should be all sorted out (everyone back to me re acceptance, rejection, waitlist). It's just hard to make a decision without hearing from the other schools yet.

I'm doing my best to try to knock one of the ones I haven't heard from yet out of the running, they are all different -- one has a better clinic, the other is closer and I got a better vibe in terms of match, one has a broader, more intellectual training, one is more focused and may do the best for my career. so I guess I have a second question, too: Any tips for making these difficult choices?

Thank you so much. I hope all is going well for you as well!

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Hello,

Thank you for your advice.

I had four interviews, and one acceptance (applied to five). Because the one acceptance is not the greatest fit, I am thinking of reapplying next year.

I think the weakest part of my application was research experience. I have four semesters of it, but our studies had trouble getting started (thanks IRB), so I have no data analysis experience in this lab, but should have it by the summer.

I am wondering how I can really best improve my research experience between now and December 15. Every place I interviewed was aware of my experience and what I hoped to accomplish by next fall. So, there would not be a significant difference between what I have now, and what I would be able to add to my application next fall.

Also, because I am committed to this lab through the summer, I cannot get another RA position until the fall, leaving me at most two months working with someone else, which does not give time for letters of recommendation or much new experience.

My question is: do I then need to take another TWO years before I reapply, or could I reapply again this December, i.e., would admissions committees realize that although my application is about the same as it was last year, that by the time I would come for an interview and then be admitted (hopefully) that I would be in a different position research-wise?

Thank you!

Hard to say. It sounds like you had good research experience, and your success in getting interviews is nice confirmation that people thought you seemed ready on paper. Perhaps the match was just not there? Or was funding an issue at some of these places and they have not yet been able to make you an offer?

Another 2 years seems like a long time to wait unless you are absolutely sure that this was the area of your application that needed improvement!