Advice on how not to appear as a "Career Hopper"

[PharmtoMD]

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Hey guys I'm a pharmacy student in my final year of school and unfortunately it took me a while to figure out pharmacy just isn't for me anymore. But at the same time it would be financially irresponsible of me to quit school now that I'm one year away from my degree. So here's my situation:

-I am on personal leave from my final rotations until this late December. I planned on retaking two science courses I received Cs in and studying for my MCAT that I planned on taking in January
-I start my rotations back up in late December and planned on working on my app from Jan till the next interview cycle.

How should I approach this subject on my personal statement considering I'll be in the process of working towards another degree? Should I write my essay as if I'm already finished with my degree? I'll be done with my last rotation around November and will receive my degree then. I feel like my decision to stay in school makes the most sense for me financially but probably isn't what admissions committees want to hear. Any advice on how to approach this subject?

 

[PossibleDOC?]

You should finish your pharm degree first, get a job in your field and start working while you begin to build an app for medical school. This is a multi year process generally for any successful applicant. You need time to take the MCAT, shadow, volunteer, there is a lot that goes into this

 

[PharmtoMD]

You should finish your pharm degree first, get a job in your field and start working while you begin to build an app for medical school. This is a multi year process generally for any successful applicant. You need time to take the MCAT, shadow, volunteer, there is a lot that goes into this

Thanks for the reply and I do plan on working while I wait for med schools to get back to me but I'd like to get started on this as soon as possible. I plan on applying 2017 cycle around the same time I earn my degree. Any advice on what to actually say on my PS about it?

 

[PossibleDOC?]

If your stats are good and everything is in place then you may just have to mention how you as with all other Nontrad premeds found your calling later in life and have decided to fully pursue it

 

[Law2Doc]

Thanks for the reply and I do plan on working while I wait for med schools to get back to me but I'd like to get started on this as soon as possible. I plan on applying 2017 cycle around the same time I earn my degree. Any advice on what to actually say on my PS about it?

"I'd like to get stated as soon as possible" is the battle cry of the guy who doesn't end up where he could have. This is a long process. Applying as a practicing pharmacist is going to be received very differently than as a guy jumping from school to school. The goal isn't to do this fast, but to get all your ducks in a row. I've advised people in law school to become lawyers before they make the jump and the same thing applies to you. Schools are going to love your transferable skills as a pharmacist but you can't really leverage them as a student who hasn't yet practiced. You have the ability to set yourself up pretty nicely if you don't rush things. Not to mention you probably still need to do shadowing to show you know what you are actually getting into. Patience is a virtue. Med school will still be there.

 

[PharmtoMD]

"I'd like to get stated as soon as possible" is the battle cry of the guy who doesn't end up where he could have. This is a long process. Applying as a practicing pharmacist is going to be received very differently than as a guy jumping from school to school. The goal isn't to do this fast, but to get all your ducks in a row. I've advised people in law school to become lawyers before they make the jump and the same thing applies to you. Schools are going to love your transferable skills as a pharmacist but you can't really leverage them as a student who hasn't yet practiced. You have the ability to set yourself up pretty nicely if you don't rush things. Not to mention you probably still need to do shadowing to show you know what you are actually getting into. Patience is a virtue. Med school will still be there.

I totally understand what you're saying. When you say I wont end up where I could have do you mean I could get accepted into a better program if I wait a year or are you saying its a longshot for me to be able to get into a med school right as I graduate?

 

[gyngyn]

I totally understand what you're saying. When you say I wont end up where I could have do you mean I could get accepted into a better program if I wait a year or are you saying its a longshot for me to be able to get into a med school right as I graduate?

Either and both.

 

[Apotheosis]

OP, while there may be some truth in what some of the above posters are saying, a lot of them are jumping the gun and forgetting to ask you what your stats are. In order to give you more appropriate advice, can you share:

1) Your undergrad GPA/estimated science GPA
2) Pharm school GPA
3) Extracurriculars and shadowing experiences
4) Research experiences

The requirements for getting into pharm school are similar to med school, though med sets the bar a bit higher. There are many people who only take a 1-1.5 years turn around time from pharmacy to medicine and still get in, provided they have a strong app and adequately explain why medicine and not pharmacy. Also, what many others don't realize is that it is commonplace for pharmacy students to be involved in meaningful extracurricular activities for a decent portion of time, so that may also work to your convenience.

It is inaccurate to absolutely say you won't get in if you apply right after graduating, and you certainly WOULD NOT be an idiot if you applied with the adequate stats and experiences. Knowing what you DON'T want can be a huge signal to pointing you what you DO want.

 

[PharmtoMD]

OP, while there may be some truth in what some of the above posters are saying, a lot of them are jumping the gun and forgetting to ask you what your stats are. In order to give you more appropriate advice, can you share:

1) Your undergrad GPA/estimated science GPA
2) Pharm school GPA
3) Extracurriculars and shadowing experiences
4) Research experiences

The requirements for getting into pharm school are similar to med school, though med sets the bar a bit higher. There are many people who only take a 1-1.5 years turn around time from pharmacy to medicine and still get in, provided they have a strong app and adequately explain why medicine and not pharmacy. Also, what many others don't realize is that it is commonplace for pharmacy students to be involved in meaningful extracurricular activities for a decent portion of time, so that may also work to your convenience.

It is inaccurate to absolutely say you won't get in if you apply right after graduating, and you certainly WOULD NOT be an idiot if you applied with the adequate stats and experiences. Knowing what you DON'T want can be a huge signal to pointing you what you DO want.

Thank you for the reply. I admit my stats are terrible at the moment though I do plan on working towards my app for the next 1-2 years to be competitive.

1) 3.1/2.8
2) I'm in an accelerated program that doesn't give out grades. We receive a P/NP according to whether we meet competency (90% or higher on exams).
3) This would be a strong point in my app and was a part of the reason I got into pharm school with a low GPA in the first place. On top of my undergrad EC I was also involved with a few clubs and medical outreach programs in pharmacy school.
4) I have no research experience as of yet but I can request to take a 6 week research rotation instead of opting in to do a rotation at a community/hospital pharmacy.

Here is my current plan:
July-December 16': Retake Biochem and anatomy (got C's the first time around). Study for my MCAT (I have a lot of review material for the new MCAT and created a 5 month regimen for myself). I'll be taking the test on the first available date in Jan.
Jan-December 17': I'll be completing my final 8 (6 week) rotations to receive my pharmacy diploma. During this time I will also be shadowing, writing my PS, and possibly taking one or two more retakes. I'll be applying at the start of the app cycle in 2017.

What I believe to be my strengths: Good standardized test taker (I took a pharmacy school final every two weeks for the past two years and have completely adapted my study habits to the graduate level), good writer (I believe my PS was very well put together when applying to pharm schools), solid interviewer, good EC (particularly with some of the medically oriented volunteer work I did)
What I believe to be my weaknesses: GPA (although this probably trumps any of my strengths)

I realize I have a very long road ahead of me but you were right in saying after realizing what I didn't want to do anymore it put the things I really did want into prescriptive.

As far as my science GPA (undergrad)
B Preparatory Chemistry
D+ General Chemistry I
B+ Contemporary Biology
B+ Contemporary Biology Lab
C General Chemistry I
B General Chemistry II
C+ Introduction Molecular Biology
C+ Molecular Biology Lab
A+ Ochem 1
A+ Ochem 1 Lab
C+ Genetics
B Ochem 2
B Ochem2 lab
C+ Physics 1
C+ molecular bio 2
B Physics II
B- Virology
B Evolution
C Biochemistry I
A- Molecular Immunology
A- Human Physiology
After I got accepted into pharmacy school I took 2 requirements at a CC ( I blew these classes off just to meet my requirements which in retrospect was a terrible idea)
C Human Anatomy
C Microbiology

I plan on retaking Biochem, microbio, and human anatomy for sure. Which other courses would be recommended to retake?
I was very young when I started college and just didn't have any direction. These past few years I'm matured not only emotionally but professionally, developed effective study habits, and have a new found drive to succeed. Please dont comment below and tell me I'm not cut out for med school because of my low grades in the past. Instead if you have any recommendations on how I could get to where you are all at today I'd greatly appreciate it.

Cheers!

 

[AnotherLawyer]

Thank you for the reply. I admit my stats are terrible at the moment though I do plan on working towards my app for the next 1-2 years to be competitive.

1) 3.1/2.8
2) I'm in an accelerated program that doesn't give out grades. We receive a P/NP according to whether we meet competency (90% or higher on exams).
3) This would be a strong point in my app and was a part of the reason I got into pharm school with a low GPA in the first place. On top of my undergrad EC I was also involved with a few clubs and medical outreach programs in pharmacy school.
4) I have no research experience as of yet but I can request to take a 6 week research rotation instead of opting in to do a rotation at a community/hospital pharmacy.

Here is my current plan:
July-December 16': Retake Biochem and anatomy (got C's the first time around). Study for my MCAT (I have a lot of review material for the new MCAT and created a 5 month regimen for myself). I'll be taking the test on the first available date in Jan.
Jan-December 17': I'll be completing my final 8 (6 week) rotations to receive my pharmacy diploma. During this time I will also be shadowing, writing my PS, and possibly taking one or two more retakes. I'll be applying at the start of the app cycle in 2017.

What I believe to be my strengths: Good standardized test taker (I took a pharmacy school final every two weeks for the past two years and have completely adapted my study habits to the graduate level), good writer (I believe my PS was very well put together when applying to pharm schools), solid interviewer, good EC (particularly with some of the medically oriented volunteer work I did)
What I believe to be my weaknesses: GPA (although this probably trumps any of my strengths)

I realize I have a very long road ahead of me but you were right in saying after realizing what I didn't want to do anymore it put the things I really did want into prescriptive.

As far as my science GPA (undergrad)
B Preparatory Chemistry
D+ General Chemistry I
B+ Contemporary Biology
B+ Contemporary Biology Lab
C General Chemistry I
B General Chemistry II
C+ Introduction Molecular Biology
C+ Molecular Biology Lab
A+ Ochem 1
A+ Ochem 1 Lab
C+ Genetics
B Ochem 2
B Ochem2 lab
C+ Physics 1
C+ molecular bio 2
B Physics II
B- Virology
B Evolution
C Biochemistry I
A- Molecular Immunology
A- Human Physiology
After I got accepted into pharmacy school I took 2 requirements at a CC ( I blew these classes off just to meet my requirements which in retrospect was a terrible idea)
C Human Anatomy
C Microbiology

I plan on retaking Biochem, microbio, and human anatomy for sure. Which other courses would be recommended to retake?
I was very young when I started college and just didn't have any direction. These past few years I'm matured not only emotionally but professionally, developed effective study habits, and have a new found drive to succeed. Please dont comment below and tell me I'm not cut out for med school because of my low grades in the past. Instead if you have any recommendations on how I could get to where you are all at today I'd greatly appreciate it.

Cheers!

It's hard to say without an MCAT, but even if you score the equivalent of a 39+, you would only have a 50/50 chance with your GPA. If you scored a still excellent, though far more obtainable, 33-35, you would have about a one third chance. That's based on 3.00 - 3.19 GPA. The fact that your science GPA is lower makes your odds worse and you'd probably be auto-screened out at many MD schools.

You're probably looking at multiple years of GPA repair if you really want to be competitive for MD schools. A little less if you avail yourself to grade replacement and go DO.

*Note that these stats are for white applicants. Your odds may be significantly better if you are a URM.

 

[ed*26]

First you need to decide if you will be applying to MD, DO, or both. DO schools may be a better option for you are they allow grade replacement. where MD schools will simply average the two classes. Typically I would suggest retaking your lowest grade (D+ in Gen Chem I) to get the biggest bang for your buck.

 

[Law2Doc]

OP, while there may be some truth in what some of the above posters are saying, a lot of them are jumping the gun and forgetting to ask you what your stats are. In order to give you more appropriate advice, can you share:

1) Your undergrad GPA/estimated science GPA
2) Pharm school GPA
3) Extracurriculars and shadowing experiences
4) Research experiences

The requirements for getting into pharm school are similar to med school, though med sets the bar a bit higher. There are many people who only take a 1-1.5 years turn around time from pharmacy to medicine and still get in, provided they have a strong app and adequately explain why medicine and not pharmacy. Also, what many others don't realize is that it is commonplace for pharmacy students to be involved in meaningful extracurricular activities for a decent portion of time, so that may also work to your convenience.

It is inaccurate to absolutely say you won't get in if you apply right after graduating, and you certainly WOULD NOT be an idiot if you applied with the adequate stats and experiences. Knowing what you DON'T want can be a huge signal to pointing you what you DO want.

My point was actually meant to be independent of his GPA although in his initial post he indicated he was retaking courses he got Cs in so we already presumed he wasn't a 4.0/40 guy. He was concerned with being perceived as a degree collector ("career hopper") and my point was he'd be much much better received applying as a practicing pharmacist than a guy in school who changed his mind mid schooling without trying it. I've made this point about law students versus lawyers applying as well. A career changer with transferable skills gets looked at very differently than a guy who tried one professional school, hadn't finished or even tried it and is already focused on a new target. Maybe that's not fair and people will argue that they shouldn't be forced to complete a schooling they don't like but that's the way things play out. More so for OP who concedes he IS planning to finish up and work during his glide year anyhow. And as mentioned the guy needs to shadow and get his ducks in a row or he won't have a convincing explanation for why he thinks medicine will be a better path for him.

 

[Apotheosis]

My point was actually meant to be independent of his GPA although in his initial post he indicated he was retaking courses he got Cs in so we already presumed he wasn't a 4.0/40 guy. He was concerned with being perceived as a degree collector ("career hopper") and my point was he'd be much much better received applying as a practicing pharmacist than a guy in school who changed his mind mid schooling without trying it. I've made this point about law students versus lawyers applying as well. A career changer with transferable skills gets looked at very differently than a guy who tried one professional school, hadn't finished or even tried it and is already focused on a new target. Maybe that's not fair and people will argue that they shouldn't be forced to complete a schooling they don't like but that's the way things play out. More so for OP who concedes he IS planning to finish up and work during his glide year anyhow. And as mentioned the guy needs to shadow and get his ducks in a row or he won't have a convincing explanation for why he thinks medicine will be a better path for him.

I don't disagree with your overall message, but I found it necessary to clarify to the OP that if his stats were adequate enough, and he already knows he wants nothing to do with the profession, then there really is no reason to slog through something he no longer has interest in, unless he was truly aiming high up the medical school totem pole. My clarification was mostly in reference to another poster above who strongly implied that the OP would not get in if he did not begin multiple years worth of new extracurricular experiences.

Years of pharmacy work experience will make his desire to switch appear more genuine, I absolutely agree with that, but I wanted to make sure OP understood that it would not markedly hurt him if everything else is already in order + a strong and convincing personal statement.

At this point though, OP, your stats will likely require you to spend at least 3-4 semesters with BCPM-heavy coursework to raise your cGPA/sGPA to competitive levels, assuming you perform favorably. Unfortunately, not much weight is placed in grad school performance, so while the 90% competency threshold needed in order to pass your pharmacy coursework is impressive, I don't think it'll do much to offset your current low undergraduate GPA, even with an impressive MCAT. I wouldn't focus too much on retakes outside of your D+ in GenChem 1 unless you are looking to apply DO in the future. Take upper level BCPM courses and knock them out of the park.

 

[PharmtoMD]

I don't disagree with your overall message, but I found it necessary to clarify to the OP that if his stats were adequate enough, and he already knows he wants nothing to do with the profession, then there really is no reason to slog through something he no longer has interest in, unless he was truly aiming high up the medical school totem pole. My clarification was mostly in reference to another poster above who strongly implied that the OP would not get in if he did not begin multiple years worth of new extracurricular experiences.

Years of pharmacy work experience will make his desire to switch appear more genuine, I absolutely agree with that, but I wanted to make sure OP understood that it would not markedly hurt him if everything else is already in order + a strong and convincing personal statement.

At this point though, OP, your stats will likely require you to spend at least 3-4 semesters with BCPM-heavy coursework to raise your cGPA/sGPA to competitive levels, assuming you perform favorably. Unfortunately, not much weight is placed in grad school performance, so while the 90% competency threshold needed in order to pass your pharmacy coursework is impressive, I don't think it'll do much to offset your current low undergraduate GPA, even with an impressive MCAT. I wouldn't focus too much on retakes outside of your D+ in GenChem 1 unless you are looking to apply DO in the future. Take upper level BCPM courses and knock them out of the park.

Thanks for the reply. Now when you say BCPM do you mean more take more advanced courses in BCPM or retake my upper level courses in BCPM? For instance should I retake calc 2 or take a calc 3? etc

 

[Apotheosis]

Thanks for the reply. Now when you say BCPM do you mean more take more advanced courses in BCPM or retake my upper level courses in BCPM? For instance should I retake calc 2 or take a calc 3? etc

If you are open to applying DO, feel free to retake all of your BCPM courses below a B-. If you want to apply strictly MD, my advice is to only retake GenChem 1, and then fill in the rest of your credits with NEW upper level BCPM courses.

 

[Apotheosis]

Let me explain the above:

MD schools tend to average the original grade and the retake grade, thus if you retook a large number of classes, its impact on your GPA would be smaller than taking fresh, new classes.

DO schools will actually replace the original grade with the retake grade, allowing you freedom to override the courses you performed less satisfactory on.

 

[Goro]

One of the things that worry Adcoms a lot (and I've interviewed people just like OP) is that it's not easy to differentiate those people who realize their true calling, vs those who are either professional students (degree collectors in L2d's parlance) or people who have a lack of commitment to things. Having good stats doesn't help us here.

I don't disagree with your overall message, but I found it necessary to clarify to the OP that if his stats were adequate enough, and he already knows he wants nothing to do with the profession, then there really is no reason to slog through something he no longer has interest in, unless he was truly aiming high up the medical school totem pole. My clarification was mostly in reference to another poster above who strongly implied that the OP would not get in if he did not begin multiple years worth of new extracurricular experiences.

Years of pharmacy work experience will make his desire to switch appear more genuine, I absolutely agree with that, but I wanted to make sure OP understood that it would not markedly hurt him if everything else is already in order + a strong and convincing personal statement.

At this point though, OP, your stats will likely require you to spend at least 3-4 semesters with BCPM-heavy coursework to raise your cGPA/sGPA to competitive levels, assuming you perform favorably. Unfortunately, not much weight is placed in grad school performance, so while the 90% competency threshold needed in order to pass your pharmacy coursework is impressive, I don't think it'll do much to offset your current low undergraduate GPA, even with an impressive MCAT. I wouldn't focus too much on retakes outside of your D+ in GenChem 1 unless you are looking to apply DO in the future. Take upper level BCPM courses and knock them out of the park.

 

[Apotheosis]

One of the things that worry Adcoms a lot (and I've interviewed people just like OP) is that it's not easy to differentiate those people who realize their true calling, vs those who are either professional students (degree collectors in L2d's parlance) or people who have a lack of commitment to things. Having good stats doesn't help us here.

Your worry is not misplaced, but if the applicant already carries strong extracurriculars over the course of undergrad + pharmacy school as back up for a well-tailored and convincing PS, will Adcoms such as yourself really ding him/her for not extensively working in the field they have no interest being in? Obviously this is application-specific but overall I would think not.

 

[Goro]

Applicants like this that have "walked the walk" (ie, done patient contact volunteering and clinician shadowing) have evidence that will allay our fears. If they can garner an interview, that will make or break them.

Your worry is not misplaced, but if the applicant already carries strong extracurriculars over the course of undergrad + pharmacy school as back up for a well-tailored and convincing PS, will Adcoms such as yourself really ding him/her for not extensively working in the field they have no interest being in? Obviously this is application-specific but overall I would think not.

 

[PharmtoMD]

Let me explain the above:

MD schools tend to average the original grade and the retake grade, thus if you retook a large number of classes, its impact on your GPA would be smaller than taking fresh, new classes.

DO schools will actually replace the original grade with the retake grade, allowing you freedom to override the courses you performed less satisfactory on.

The only problem with this plan is that they dont offer upper level courses like that at my CC and I surely cant afford to take courses at the state school at the moment.

 

[Apotheosis]

The only problem with this plan is that they dont offer upper level courses like that at my CC and I surely cant afford to take courses at the state school at the moment.

I advise going the DO route then