Advice on Newer DO Schools

[Dhooy7]

I haven't received any interviews yet but applied to about 6 or so DO schools. I still need to apply to about 6-8 more. My problem is my MCAT score and I'm waiting for my score to be back 10/23. I was recommended to apply to these newer DO schools:
LMU-DCOM,
ICOM
BCOM
ACOm.
KYCOM

I got a 3.98 (3.92 because of high school course counted towards college credit) and 3.957 at 4-year school. First time I got below 500 due to some other factors. My plan was to wait till after I get my new score to decide but what is the reputation of these schools? I'm not sure whether I should wait a year or apply to these schools that will look beyond a low MCAT. Any advice?

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[Dhooy7]

I was recommended to apply to BCOM and VCOM as well. I haven't completed their secondary yet.

 

[Magus5454]

I haven't received any interviews yet but applied to about 6 or so DO schools. I still need to apply to about 6-8 more. My problem is my MCAT score and I'm waiting for my score to be back 10/23. I was recommended to apply to these newer DO schools:
LMU-DCOM,
ICOM
BCOM
ACOm.
KYCOM

I got a 3.98 (3.92 because of high school course counted towards college credit) and 3.957 at 4-year school. First time I got below 500 due to some other factors. My plan was to wait till after I get my new score to decide but what is the reputation of these schools? I'm not sure whether I should wait a year or apply to these schools that will look beyond a low MCAT. Any advice?

Ask in 4 days. How do you feel you did on it

 

[Ho0v-man]

I haven't received any interviews yet but applied to about 6 or so DO schools. I still need to apply to about 6-8 more. My problem is my MCAT score and I'm waiting for my score to be back 10/23. I was recommended to apply to these newer DO schools:
LMU-DCOM,
ICOM
BCOM
ACOm.
KYCOM

I got a 3.98 (3.92 because of high school course counted towards college credit) and 3.957 at 4-year school. First time I got below 500 due to some other factors. My plan was to wait till after I get my new score to decide but what is the reputation of these schools? I'm not sure whether I should wait a year or apply to these schools that will look beyond a low MCAT. Any advice?

Lmu- notoriously bad 3rd year,even by DO school standards. No mandatory attendance though.

Icom and bcom haven’t graduated a class yet so there is no reputation.

Acom: mandatory attendance. General SDN opinion of well organized third year.

Kycom: mandatory attendance. Cheapest of the ones you listed with a low COL iirc. General opinion is “ oh yeah there’s a school there.”

Wouldn’t worry too much about “reputation” of a DO school. Go somewhere you’d like to live without mandatory attendance if at all possible. Everything else is more or less a wash. If you can, consider avoiding a school that hasn’t graduated at least a few classes just bc there’s probably some growing pains. If your mcat is below 500, you can’t really be choosy. Even with a score 505+, you wouldn’t be complete at other schools until November. It’s pretty late in the cycle for non-stellar applicants. I’d just ride it out with what you got tbh and update the school with your new score.

Update us with your new score when you get it and we could all be more helpful.

EDIT: I just saw that kycom is only mandatory attendance first semester and even then is very loose with it.

 

[Goro]

Lmu- notoriously bad 3rd year,even by DO school standards. No mandatory attendance though.

Icom and bcom haven’t graduated a class yet so there is no reputation.

Acom: mandatory attendance. General SDN opinion of well organized third year.

Kycom: mandatory attendance. Cheapest of the ones you listed with a low COL iirc. General opinion is “ oh yeah there’s a school there.”

Wouldn’t worry too much about “reputation” of a DO school. Go somewhere you’d like to live without mandatory attendance if at all possible. Everything else is more or less a wash. If you can, consider avoiding a school that hasn’t graduated at least a few classes just bc there’s probably some growing pains. If your mcat is below 500, you can’t really be choosy. Even with a score 505+, you wouldn’t be complete at other schools until November. It’s pretty late in the cycle for non-stellar applicants. I’d just ride it out with what you got tbh and update the school with your new score.

Update us with your new score when you get it and we could all be more helpful.

EDIT: I just saw that kycom is only mandatory attendance first semester and even then is very loose with it.

Being that medical students are adult learners, and can figure out their own best way to learn, I will always recommend those schools that don't live in the 19th Century.

 

[Dhooy7]

I agree. I do not want mandatory lectures. They are only like 3 that require lectures right? Also I am most concerned with board scores and matching for residency.

 

[Magus5454]

I agree. I do not want mandatory lectures. They are only like 3 that require lectures right? Also I am most concerned with board scores and matching for residency.

Far more than 3

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I agree. I do not want mandatory lectures. They are only like 3 that require lectures right? Also I am most concerned with board scores and matching for residency.

Most schools will have mandatory something or other almost on a daily basis. "Non-mandatory attendance" is honestly a lie most schools tell you. Mine is supposedly non-mandatory yet I still spend about 2-3 hours a day in mandatory crap. Ask students how often they have to go to stuff.

 

[deleted645092]

I'm a current 3rd year at KYCOM and answered the same in a similar thread, but I'll expand a bit. OMS-I has mandatory attendance first semester, but it's a little loose, as attendance gets taken completely at random and maybe once or twice a block. After that there are certain classes and lectures that are mandatory but the core classes aren't; phys, path, pharm, micro aren't, but our clinical skills, osteopathic manipulation, and skills labs are, since they're once a week and you can't exactly do them from home.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

I haven't received any interviews yet but applied to about 6 or so DO schools. I still need to apply to about 6-8 more. My problem is my MCAT score and I'm waiting for my score to be back 10/23. I was recommended to apply to these newer DO schools:
LMU-DCOM,
ICOM
BCOM
ACOm.
KYCOM

I got a 3.98 (3.92 because of high school course counted towards college credit) and 3.957 at 4-year school. First time I got below 500 due to some other factors. My plan was to wait till after I get my new score to decide but what is the reputation of these schools? I'm not sure whether I should wait a year or apply to these schools that will look beyond a low MCAT. Any advice?

My advice for you is to learn how to use ANKI, download a pre-made MCAT deck, and retake that thing.

I'm a DO with solid USMLE scores hoping to match into a non-primary care field. The reality is that 50-60% of all DO class will go into primary care. Therefore, for you not to enter primary care, you need average to above averages on both USMLE Step 1 and Step 2.

That's easier said than done.

If you're fine with FM, then take a DO acceptance and live to regret for the rest of your next 4 years.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Therefore, for you not to enter primary care, you need average to above averages on both USMLE Step 1 and Step 2.

This is 100% false.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

This is 100% false.

Try to match surgical subspecialty with below scores and let me know how it goes.

 

[Magus5454]

Try to match surgical subspecialty with below scores and let me know how it goes.

Non primary care != only surgical subspecialties

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Try to match surgical subspecialty with below scores and let me know how it goes.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

Non primary care != only surgical subspecialties

I’m going to be generous with you guys and include fields like PMR, Neuro, and Anesthesiology.

I don’t care what the NRMP said about ratio of matches vs unmatches. But, if you have less than 220 on your USMLE Step 1 and less than 230 on USMLE Step 2, the number IIs will be very small and your chances of matching will be very uncomfortable vs a MD with 210s Step 1 and 220s Step 2 for the above mentioned fields. Meanwhile, MDs with those below average numbers will get getting double digits IIs with 99% chances of matching.

For all the general readers out there, if you decide to go to DO, you better be satisfied with being a FM doc bc 55-60% of your class will go into primary care, regardless of which DO you go into. For the people out there aiming for non primary fields, just know that you agree to eat a NBOME poo sandwich for the next four years all the way until the day of your ACGME match day.

If you make it to match day and match to a ACGME residency of your top 3 desired match field, congrats to you bc you’re part of the 50% of your class who manage to escape the DO dumpster hole. As for the other 50%, my condolence and tough luck to you bc you have been warned by others like me.

If you’re totally not ok with the idea of being a primary care doc, I suggest for you to bunker down, study hard, and retake that MCAT. Yes, it’s possible for a 495-502 scorer to score min 510+ on the MCAT. Your study habits and discipline are just trash at this moment. You just don’t know it. I’m 100% certain that 95% of my classmates could destroy the MCAT if they had the discipline and habits that they have developed throughout the first two years of med school, prior to taking the MCAT.

Best ways to obliterate the MCAT are to learn ANKI and do Uworld for MCAT.

 

[Magus5454]

I’m going to be generous with you guys and include fields like PMR, Neuro, and Anesthesiology.

I don’t care what the NRMP said about ratio of matches vs unmatches. But, if you have less than 220 on your USMLE Step 1 and less than 230 on USMLE Step 2, the number IIs will be very small and your chances of matching will be very uncomfortable vs a MD with 210s Step 1 and 220s Step 2 for the above mentioned fields. Meanwhile, MDs with those below average numbers will get getting double digits IIs with 99% chances of matching.

For all the general readers out there, if you decide to go to DO, you better be satisfied with being a FM doc bc 55-60% of your class will go into primary care, regardless of which DO you go into. For the people out there aiming for non primary fields, just know that you agree to eat a NBOME poo sandwich for the next four years all the way until the day of your ACGME match day.

If you make it to match day and match to a ACGME residency of your top 3 desired match field, congrats to you bc you’re part of the 50% of your class who manage to escape the DO dumpster hole. As for the other 50%, my condolence and tough luck to you bc you have been warned by others like me.

If you’re totally not ok with the idea of being a primary care doc, I suggest for you to bunker down, study hard, and retake that MCAT. Yes, it’s possible for a 495-502 scorer to score min 510+ on the MCAT. Your study habits and discipline are just trash at this moment. You just don’t know it. I’m 100% certain that 95% of my classmates could destroy the MCAT if they had the discipline and habits that they have developed throughout the first two years of med school, prior to taking the MCAT.

Best ways to obliterate the MCAT are to learn ANKI and do Uworld for MCAT.

Guess what, a bad MCAT is not why some people ended up at a DO school.

My state MD sent 61% to primary care last year. (FM, IM, peds). No one is arguing that DOs have it harder, but if @AnatomyGrey12 is arguing with you..well.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I’m going to be generous with you guys and include fields like PMR, Neuro, and Anesthesiology.

I don’t care what the NRMP said about ratio of matches vs unmatches. But, if you have less than 220 on your USMLE Step 1 and less than 230 on USMLE Step 2, the number IIs will be very small and your chances of matching will be very uncomfortable vs a MD with 210s Step 1 and 220s Step 2 for the above mentioned fields. Meanwhile, MDs with those below average numbers will get getting double digits IIs with 99% chances of matching.

It doesn’t matter if you don’t care because the published data says you are wrong. You aren’t “giving” us anything. Those fields are not primary care. Throw on top of that any peds or IM fellowship, EM, and even Rads as specialties available to someone with a below average (ie less than 230) Step 1.

No one is saying DOs don’t have it harder or different. Your comment was extremely stupid and now you are moving the goal posts.

but if @AnatomyGrey12 is arguing with you..well.

It’s not even an argument. He made a stupid comment that is factually incorrect.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

It doesn’t matter if you don’t care because the published data says you are wrong. You aren’t “giving” us anything. Those fields are not primary care. Throw on top of that any peds or IM fellowship, EM, and even Rads as specialties available to someone with a below average (ie less than 230) Step 1.

No one is saying DOs don’t have it harder or different. Your comment was extremely stupid and now you are moving the goal posts.



It’s not even an argument. He made a stupid comment that is factually incorrect.

LOL Name me EM, Rads, or solid IM programs with options to Cards/GI fellowships that are available to DOs with 210s Step 1. Average for Step 1 is around 228-229 in the past 3 years, not 230.

As a DO, you’re kissing good bye to all of these fields with 210s or less and pretty much stuck with primary care. About 40% of DO students who have taken the USMLE Step 1 score less than 220.

Which part about my post that 50-60% of a DO class going into primary care is wrong? I guarantee you that not all of those 50-60% want primary care as a first choice. Meanwhile, a 210s for a USMD can still land solid IMs, EM, Gas, PMR, and Neuro. Similarly, the average for MD schools for Step 1 is around 226-230. Yet, only 10-15% of graduated MDs go into primary care.

You’re pretty opinionated about your perspective, which I appreciate and admire. But, let’s calm the bs about a DO having options with Step 1 210s or less. In a game of matching where every small difference translates to significant results, anyone reading this should be gunning for MDs for least 2 application sessions before settling for trash DO schools.

Yes, people can not get accepted into a MD for a variety of reasons. However, an above average MCAT of 510+ with some bs CV volunteer stuff will get 90% of applicants into a MD somewhere.

TDLR: try for MD schools for at least 2 application cycles. If you have to settle for a DO school on your third cycle, you better be fine with primary care. If not, try other fields.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

LOL Name me EM, Rads, or solid IM programs with options to Cards/GI fellowships that are available to DOs with 210s Step 1. Average for Step 1 is around 228-229 in the past 3 years, not 230.

As a DO, you’re kissing good bye to all of these fields with 210s or less and pretty much stuck with primary care. About 40% of DO students who have taken the USMLE Step 1 score less than 220.

Which part about my post that 50-60% of a DO class going into primary care is wrong? I guarantee you that not all of those 50-60% want primary care as a first choice. Meanwhile, a 210s for a USMD can still land solid IMs, EM, Gas, PMR, and Neuro. Similarly, the average for MD schools for Step 1 is around 226-230. Yet, only 10-15% of graduated MDs go into primary care.

You’re pretty opinionated about your perspective, which I appreciate and admire. But, let’s calm the bs about a DO having options with Step 1 210s or less. In a game of matching where every small difference translates to significant results, anyone reading this should be gunning for MDs for least 2 application sessions before settling for trash DO schools.

Yes, people can not get accepted into a MD for a variety of reasons. However, an above average MCAT of 510+ with some bs CV volunteer stuff will get 90% of applicants into a MD somewhere.

TDLR: try for MD schools for at least 2 application cycles. If you have to settle for a DO school on your third cycle, you better be fine with primary care. If not, try other fields.

I don't know very much about these stuff, I'm just a first year, but I looked at the Charting outcome for osteopathic seniors, and it shows more people match than not match with a Step 1 score between 201 and 210 in EM (17 to 6) and Gas (19 to 2).

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[Black Coffee 24/7]

I don't know very much about these stuff, I'm just a first year, but I looked at the Charting outcome for osteopathic seniors, and it shows more people match than not match with a Step 1 score between 201 and 210 in EM (17 to 6) and Gas (19 to 2).

Sent from my SM-G950U using SDN mobile

And I am telling you that you don’t want to be in those programs. Those are the lowest of the lows.

For residencies, you want a supportive program with compassionated PDs and colleagues who will have your back in trouble times. These garbage programs probably have low board passing rates for the specialty of interest or straight up IMG sweatshops. You will know more about this when you hit 3rd year.

But, I’m telling you right now that to match to a decent ACGME program outside of FM that will adequately train you to be a competent physician with good job prospects, you need to hit at least 220s Step 1 and 230s Step 2 for a DO for fields like PMR, Neuro, EM, and Anesthesiology. Derm isn’t likely for a DO. My core program used to have AOA Derm spots taken by DO applicants. All of them have been taken by MD applicants.

Even for the FM program, it is mandated by ACGME to have a certain amount of slots just for MDs regardless if that person is less competitive than DO counterparts. The opposite doesn’t seem to be in effect for MD ACGME programs. In fact, some bs IM fellowship in the NE is requiring Step 3 and Step 2 PE to apply to their Cards and GI programs despite the applicants being competive and trained from ACGME IM programs. You don’t hear about bs like this until you talk to current residents and PDs. However, I’m telling you that the merger is screwing DOs up the rear end hard.

Our DO leadership doesn’t gaf and is just looking to make a quick buck.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Reading comprehension is hard for you apparently.

Therefore, for you not to enter primary care, you need average to above averages on both USMLE Step 1 and Step 2.

This is your dumb*** quote that I said was false. It's 100% false and you know it, hence why you moved the goalposts. It's ok to admit you made a stupid comment.

Average for Step 1 is around 228-229 in the past 3 years, not 230.

I know, I rounded up one point to a nice round number.

LOL Name me EM, Rads, or solid IM programs with options to Cards/GI fellowships that are available to DOs with 210s Step 1

First, you either love moving the goal posts, or just suck at reasoning. I can't figure out which at this point.
We aren't talking about 210, you said average so anything below a 229. Furthermore, there are more IM fellowships outside of GI/Cards, and many of them can be had from the community programs matched by 210 toting DOs. This is ignoring all Peds fellowships too. The ACGME match rate in EM is really good even into the 210s, and Rads is about 70%, which isn't horrendous. I'm not going to hunt down the programs that all the people in those ranges on charting outcomes matched at.

Which part about my post that 50-60% of a DO class going into primary care is wrong?

The part where that statistic has literally nothing to do with what we are talking about. It's a strawman.

Yet, only 10-15% of graduated MDs go into primary care.

The most matched specialties by MDs are IM, FM, and peds.

But, let’s calm the bs about a DO having options with Step 1 210s or less.

Moving the goal posts. You said below average.

But, I’m telling you right now that to match to a decent ACGME program outside of FM that will adequately train you to be a competent physician with good job prospects, you need to hit at least 220s Step 1 and 230s Step 2 for a DO for fields like PMR, Neuro, EM, and Anesthesiology.

Again you are 100% wrong. You really need to stop posting.

it is mandated by ACGME to have a certain amount of slots just for MDs

Gonna need source homeboy. I'll wait patiently.

In fact, some bs IM fellowship in the NE is requiring Step 3 and Step 2 PE to apply to their Cards and GI programs despite the applicants being competive and trained from ACGME IM programs.

Good thing there are lots of fellowships out there. One program is one program. There were 47 cards fellowship matches last year, and 23 GI. Those two are easily the most competitive IM fellowships.

However, I’m telling you that the merger is screwing DOs up the rear end hard.

What you have talked about has nothing to do with the merger. The merger will largely have little impact on most DO applicants. It will hurt the bottom and top students. The people in the middle will pretty much go on the way they always have. The huge increase in DO students is what will bone all DO students, and the AOA is fully to blame for that. The merger is a good thing in the long run.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

Reading comprehension is hard for you apparently.



This is your dumb*** quote that I said was false. It's 100% false and you know it, hence why you moved the goalposts. It's ok to admit you made a stupid comment.



I know, I rounded up one point to a nice round number.



First, you either love moving the goal posts, or just suck at reasoning. I can't figure out which at this point.
We aren't talking about 210, you said average so anything below a 229. Furthermore, there are more IM fellowships outside of GI/Cards, and many of them can be had from the community programs matched by 210 toting DOs. This is ignoring all Peds fellowships too. The ACGME match rate in EM is really good even into the 210s, and Rads is about 70%, which isn't horrendous. I'm not going to hunt down the programs that all the people in those ranges on charting outcomes matched at.



The part where that statistic has literally nothing to do with what we are talking about. It's a strawman.



The most matched specialties by MDs are IM, FM, and peds.


Moving the goal posts. You said below average.


Again you are 100% wrong. You really need to stop posting.



Gonna need source homeboy. I'll wait patiently.



Good thing there are lots of fellowships out there. One program is one program. There were 47 cards fellowship matches last year, and 23 GI. Those two are easily the most competitive IM fellowships.



What you have talked about has nothing to do with the merger. The merger will largely have little impact on most DO applicants. It will hurt the bottom and top students. The people in the middle will pretty much go on the way they always have. The huge increase in DO students is what will bone all DO students, and the AOA is fully to blame for that. The merger is a good thing in the long run.

I’m done with you bc you just can’t have a normal convo like an adult.

I’ll just patiently await for your change of tune during your third and fourth year, just like you had before from premed status to now.

Must be frustrating to hear that a bad choice during premed could literally screw over career options but that’s a reality for all DOs will have to face at some point during 3rd and 4th year. The only way to rectify that screwup as a DO is to score at least 220s on Step 1 and 230s on Step 2.

For the sake of anonymity, I’m not going to be giving out my home program that has multiple residency specialties. Just telling you and others here what I know. If you don’t want to hear the truth, feel free to hit the ignore button.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I’m done with you bc you just can’t have a normal convo like an adult.

I’ll just patiently await for your change of tune during your third and fourth year, just like you had before from premed status to now.

Must be frustrating to hear that a bad choice during premed could literally screw over career options but that’s a reality for all DOs will have to face at some point during 3rd and 4th year. The only way to rectify that screwup as a DO is to score at least 220s on Step 1 and 230s on Step 2.

For the sake of anonymity, I’m not going to be giving out my home program that has multiple residency specialties. Just telling you and others here what I know. If you don’t want to hear the truth, feel free to hit the ignore button.

Ah so instead of admitting you made a stupid comment you are doubling down with more dumb comments. Nice. Having an adult conversation means that you refute what I have said with facts instead of throwing out hyperbole. I'm not the one shying away from the conversation.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

Ah so instead of admitting you made a stupid comment you are doubling down with more dumb comments. Nice. Having an adult conversation means that you refute what I have said with facts instead of throwing out hyperbole. I'm not the one shying away from the conversation.

Reach out to your residents and PDs for specialties like ortho. I can assure that some converted former AOA ortho program is being forced to have a # of slots for MDs. The wildest thing is that some converted former AOA FM is also being forced to have a # of slots for MDs.

We are being rear screwed hard by the merger. The first ones to feel the repercussion will be classes from 2020-2022.

 

[gyngyn]

Civil discourse, please.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Reach out to your residents and PDs for specialties like ortho. I can assure that some converted former AOA ortho program is being forced to have a # of slots for MDs. The wildest thing is that some converted former AOA FM is also being forced to have a # of slots for MDs.

I have. Our programs (all of them, especially the competitive ones) will not be accepting MDs. For them to even apply they have to take a 60 hour OMM course from our OMM department and then have to do an audition. I had friends at the AOAO meeting this weekend, many programs have stated they will not be taking MDs. Some will, but many won't. A direct quote, "until MD programs stop throwing DO apps out then I won't touch an MD applicant."

Yes some programs are feeling that from hospital administration, doesn't mean they have to do it, and it isn't coming from the AOA. It's coming from the hospital admins of those programs.

All of this has nothing to do with your original statement.

 

[CyrusHabs7695]

Reading comprehension is hard for you apparently.



This is your dumb*** quote that I said was false. It's 100% false and you know it, hence why you moved the goalposts. It's ok to admit you made a stupid comment.



I know, I rounded up one point to a nice round number.



First, you either love moving the goal posts, or just suck at reasoning. I can't figure out which at this point.
We aren't talking about 210, you said average so anything below a 229. Furthermore, there are more IM fellowships outside of GI/Cards, and many of them can be had from the community programs matched by 210 toting DOs. This is ignoring all Peds fellowships too. The ACGME match rate in EM is really good even into the 210s, and Rads is about 70%, which isn't horrendous. I'm not going to hunt down the programs that all the people in those ranges on charting outcomes matched at.



The part where that statistic has literally nothing to do with what we are talking about. It's a strawman.



The most matched specialties by MDs are IM, FM, and peds.


Moving the goal posts. You said below average.


Again you are 100% wrong. You really need to stop posting.



Gonna need source homeboy. I'll wait patiently.



Good thing there are lots of fellowships out there. One program is one program. There were 47 cards fellowship matches last year, and 23 GI. Those two are easily the most competitive IM fellowships.



What you have talked about has nothing to do with the merger. The merger will largely have little impact on most DO applicants. It will hurt the bottom and top students. The people in the middle will pretty much go on the way they always have. The huge increase in DO students is what will bone all DO students, and the AOA is fully to blame for that. The merger is a good thing in the long run.

"Hey what time is it?"

"3:30"

"No its not its 3:29"

 

[DrStephenStrange]

I have. Our programs (all of them, especially the competitive ones) will not be accepting MDs. For them to even apply they have to take a 60 hour OMM course from our OMM department and then have to do an audition. I had friends at the AOAO meeting this weekend, many programs have stated they will not be taking MDs. Some will, but many won't. A direct quote, "until MD programs stop throwing DO apps out then I won't touch an MD applicant."

Yes some programs are feeling that from hospital administration, doesn't mean they have to do it, and it isn't coming from the AOA. It's coming from the hospital admins of those programs.

All of this has nothing to do with your original statement.

Also, just to add to that, some programs are setting their minimum Step 1 score insanely high while keeping their minimum comlex level 1 score just a little bit above passing. I have to say, I'm very impressed by those old AOA programs' bold moves lol.

Sent from my SM-G950U using SDN mobile

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

I have. Our programs (all of them, especially the competitive ones) will not be accepting MDs. For them to even apply they have to take a 60 hour OMM course from our OMM department and then have to do an audition. I had friends at the AOAO meeting this weekend, many programs have stated they will not be taking MDs. Some will, but many won't. A direct quote, "until MD programs stop throwing DO apps out then I won't touch an MD applicant."

Yes some programs are feeling that from hospital administration, doesn't mean they have to do it, and it isn't coming from the AOA. It's coming from the hospital admins of those programs.

All of this has nothing to do with your original statement.

Good for the PDs for your home site. I can’t say the same for Derm, Ortho, GS, IM, and FM from my home site.

No bs OMM requirement for Ortho, GS, and Derm here for MD applicants.

 

[Dhooy7]

I’m going to be generous with you guys and include fields like PMR, Neuro, and Anesthesiology.

I don’t care what the NRMP said about ratio of matches vs unmatches. But, if you have less than 220 on your USMLE Step 1 and less than 230 on USMLE Step 2, the number IIs will be very small and your chances of matching will be very uncomfortable vs a MD with 210s Step 1 and 220s Step 2 for the above mentioned fields. Meanwhile, MDs with those below average numbers will get getting double digits IIs with 99% chances of matching.

For all the general readers out there, if you decide to go to DO, you better be satisfied with being a FM doc bc 55-60% of your class will go into primary care, regardless of which DO you go into. For the people out there aiming for non primary fields, just know that you agree to eat a NBOME poo sandwich for the next four years all the way until the day of your ACGME match day.

If you make it to match day and match to a ACGME residency of your top 3 desired match field, congrats to you bc you’re part of the 50% of your class who manage to escape the DO dumpster hole. As for the other 50%, my condolence and tough luck to you bc you have been warned by others like me.

If you’re totally not ok with the idea of being a primary care doc, I suggest for you to bunker down, study hard, and retake that MCAT. Yes, it’s possible for a 495-502 scorer to score min 510+ on the MCAT. Your study habits and discipline are just trash at this moment. You just don’t know it. I’m 100% certain that 95% of my classmates could destroy the MCAT if they had the discipline and habits that they have developed throughout the first two years of med school, prior to taking the MCAT.

Best ways to obliterate the MCAT are to learn ANKI and do Uworld for MCAT.

I never really focused on ANki. If I retake again I'm doing TBR and Anki. Cars kills me though

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Cars kills me though

For CARS you need simply need to know 2 things for every passage: 1. The main idea of the passage and 2. The tone of the author with regards to the main idea. You can answer almost every CARS question if you know those two things. Practice, practice, and practice some more reading stuff and pulling out those two things.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

I never really focused on ANki. If I retake again I'm doing TBR and Anki. Cars kills me though

Keep chugging it away

The amount of pain and extra effort that you need to get an acceptable MCAT for a MD acceptance is nothing in comparison to the level of pain and bs that will be inflicted on you in the next four years as a DO.

As a DO who has a respectable USMLE to go nonprimary, I can’t recommend any DO acceptance unless you have tried at least two cycles for a MD and are perfectly happy with being a FM doc. The landscape for non-competitive fields like Neuro, PMR, EM, and Anesthesiology outside of GS and other surgical sub specialties are getting harder for a DO without at least 220s Step 1 and 230s Step 2.

Somebody here mentioned a bs 70% acceptance for Rads for some DO as some sort of quality metric that should be elevated. That’s pitiful. I don’t know about anyone here but anything less than 88-90% match rate isn’t a zone that I feel comfortable at considering the amount of pain and bs that I have to deal with for four years relative to my MD colleagues.

Disclosure: I go to a so called top DO school here on sdn. My opinion is that they are all trash and will severely limit your career options.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Somebody here mentioned a bs 70% acceptance for Rads for some DO as some sort of quality metric that should be elevated. That’s pitiful.

No. The interventional radiology (18%) match rate is pitiful. 70% isn't great but it's decent for those who really want to shoot for that field.

It's funny to me you are posting the way you are because you are literally in the group that you are bashing on here. Don't act like you have a 260, when you and I know that isn't true.

You kept bringing up 210s as an example of a "PC only" Step score. Radiology:6/8 (75%) matched; Anesthesia: 19/21 (90%) matched; EM: 64/75 (85%) matched; Neurology 12/14 (86%) matched; PMR 14/19 (74%) matched.

This isn't even getting into the number of people that go into any IM or Peds fellowships, which automatically makes them a specialist and no longer primary care.

I have stats on my side, you have.... what exactly?

 

[Lawpy]

For CARS you need simply need to know 2 things for every passage: 1. The main idea of the passage and 2. The tone of the author with regards to the main idea. You can answer almost every CARS question if you know those two things. Practice, practice, and practice some more reading stuff and pulling out those two things.

Agreed here but I'd also add to try to read a bit more slowly to really understand the author's main idea. It's better to spend more time reading the passage to nail down the main idea really well so that answering the questions using the main idea would be a lot more straightforward.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Agreed here but I'd also add to try to read a bit more slowly to really understand the author's main idea. It's better to spend more time reading the passage to nail down the main idea really well so that answering the questions using the main idea would be a lot more straightforward.

My timing was 4 minutes per passage and 1 minute per question. I wouldn't spend more time on the passage than that or it could throw off the whole section and then you're screwed.

 

[Lawpy]

My timing was 4 minutes per passage and 1 minute per question. I wouldn't spend more time on the passage than that or it could throw off the whole section and then you're screwed.

Agreed 4 minutes per passage is the best.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

No. The interventional radiology (18%) match rate is pitiful. 70% isn't great but it's decent for those who really want to shoot for that field.

It's funny to me you are posting the way you are because you are literally in the group that you are bashing on here. Don't act like you have a 260, when you and I know that isn't true.

You kept bringing up 210s as an example of a "PC only" Step score. Radiology:6/8 (75%) matched; Anesthesia: 19/21 (90%) matched; EM: 64/75 (85%) matched; Neurology 12/14 (86%) matched; PMR 14/19 (74%) matched.

This isn't even getting into the number of people that go into any IM or Peds fellowships, which automatically makes them a specialist and no longer primary care.

I have stats on my side, you have.... what exactly?

LOL Sorry dude if I piss on your cheerios. Shouldn’t you be studying for your Step 1 right now so that you don’t end up like someone with 200s or 210s Step 1 and then think of quitting med school and going into podiatry.

I got nothing to hide here. 220s Step 1 here, which is under my baseline. Did the best that I can do and put every minute of my living soul into it. So far, I had a rough start to third year and seemed to be turning the corner right now. Will I hit at least 230s on Step 2? Who knows? Hopefully I do but I would feel very uncomfortable trying to match to either Neuro or Anesthesiology, two fields that I’m considering, without at least 220s Step 1 and 230s Step 2.

Stats on the NRMP are a little misleading without field reports from people who have just matched or are currently going through the match right now. My sources from either 4th yr students or first year residents tell me what I’m trying to tell you guys.

Feel free to disagree. I gain nothing from your bickering except pure entertainment.

 

[DNC127]

LOL Sorry dude if I piss on your cheerios. Shouldn’t you be studying for your Step 1 right now so that you don’t end up like someone with 200s or 210s Step 1 and then think of quitting med school and going into podiatry.

I got nothing to hide here. 220s Step 1 here, which is under my baseline. Did the best that I can do and put every minute of my living soul into it. So far, I had a rough start to third year and seemed to be turning the corner right now. Will I hit at least 230s on Step 2? Who knows? Hopefully I do but I would feel very uncomfortable trying to match to either Neuro or Anesthesiology, two fields that I’m considering, without at least 220s Step 1 and 230s Step 2.

Stats on the NRMP are a little misleading without field reports from people who have just matched or are currently going through the match right now. My sources from either 4th yr students or first year residents tell me what I’m trying to tell you guys.

Feel free to disagree. I gain nothing from your bickering except pure entertainment.

1. You are wrong and nothing you say is based on facts.

2. You are annoying.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

LOL Sorry dude if I piss on your cheerios. Shouldn’t you be studying for your Step 1 right now so that you don’t end up like someone with 200s or 210s Step 1 and then think of quitting med school and going into podiatry.

I got nothing to hide here. 220s Step 1 here, which is under my baseline. Did the best that I can do and put every minute of my living soul into it. So far, I had a rough start to third year and seemed to be turning the corner right now. Will I hit at least 230s on Step 2? Who knows? Hopefully I do but I would feel very uncomfortable trying to match to either Neuro or Anesthesiology, two fields that I’m considering, without at least 220s Step 1 and 230s Step 2.

Stats on the NRMP are a little misleading without field reports from people who have just matched or are currently going through the match right now. My sources from either 4th yr students or first year residents tell me what I’m trying to tell you guys.

Feel free to disagree. I gain nothing from your bickering except pure entertainment.

So you still have absolutely nothing to refute my statements with. Noted.

My cheerios are great actually. I'm not the one who farted and is now trying to tell everyone it's a scented candle.

Edit: oh and my Step score is tracking very well based on my Q-bank trend but thanks for the concern.

 

[gyngyn]

Civil disagreement please, or at least get back to OP's query.

 

[ChiDr]

And the MD/DO peeing contest continues.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

And the MD/DO peeing contest continues.

This has nothing to do with that.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

1. You are wrong and nothing you say is based on facts.

2. You are annoying.

You're not that important dude. Nobody cares about your opinion, except maybe your significant other bc she has to deal with you.

 

[TheRealCookieMonster]

Lol sdn, can’t wait to watch you guys practice medicine.

 

[Dhooy7]

Got a 500. Not great but improved. Everything improved but CP went down by 1 point

 

[Osminog]

There's no denying that you have more doors open as a US MD student than as a DO student; there's no denying that many PDs are instantly turned off when they see "DO" on an application; and there's no denying that DO students, on average, have inferior academic credentials prior to entering medical school. These are incontrovertible facts.

However, I take serious issue with using terms like "DO dumpster hole," sharing made-up statistics about how 50% of DO students fail to match into their top three desired specialties, and assuming that a majority of DO students go into primary care because they are forced by their circumstances. Also, implicit in @Black Coffee 24/7's statements is a disdain for primary care specialties, which can be very professionally, financially, and personally rewarding for a lot of physicians. I find all of this to be very objectionable.

There certainly are grains of truth in what @Black Coffee 24/7 is saying, but his posts are heavily laced with misinformation and hyperbole—and this makes it difficult to take him seriously.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

You're not that important dude. Nobody cares about your opinion, except maybe your significant other bc she has to deal with you.

So, once again, you present no actual information that refutes how you are wrong. Noted.

 

[Isoval]

Try to match surgical subspecialty with below scores and let me know how it goes.

We had someone match ACGME Dermatology last year with like a 566 COMLEX and no USMLE. Thanks for playing.

 

[malongo]

uiwsom is a good choice as well!!

 

[Dhooy7]

It's just an expensive school. Texas schools are usually cheaper. I'll look into UIWSOM more tho.