Advice Please! 29Q(10-9-10) / 3.53 / 4 interviews -- 0 Acceptances =[

[FireTop]

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[NervousandScare]

Your EC's are just superb; they show passion, commitment and dedication. There is a noticeable lack of research (or I should say commitment to research) but that is not at all a game killer. I hate to bring up numbers, but looking at the average matriculant GPA and MCAT, (esp. MCAT) you're in the danger zone, especially for California. I would retake the MCAT and try to score above 31; this would more or less improve your odds of acceptance by atleast 30%. Also consider a post-bacc where you would take around 18 or so credits, and improve your GPA considerably. If you can improve your GPA and MCAT into the 3.6> and 30> range, you should be all set for at least one acceptance (not necessarily in Cali, however)

 

[MiniMoo]

It might help if we know what schools you applied to?

GPA is slightly below average, but I have the same and did fine. What would help you would be a higher MCAT, IMO.

 

[BowserMD]

You seem pretty awesome.

I'm rooting for you! Have you sent in update letters to all your waitlist schools? That helped me out a lot this year. I have a low GPA and was still able to get into a dream school with 2 update letters after I'd been waitlisted.

At one point in my life, dance was the biggest thing to me. It's been a while so I didn't include it in my PS and it only got a small description in the activities section but ended up talking about it in interviews quite a bit. I think that talking about it will take you far.

Good luck

 

[Catalystik]

-Break-Dancer - Competitive Break Dancer (Bboy) --9 years. I compete to this day at jams and we "battle" all over (Seattle, LA, Las Vegas). I was told to not include this in my AMCAS last cycle because it sounds "immature" so I left it out. I think that was a mistake? Because this is a big part of my life.

I disagree with the advice you were given. I think it should have been included, along with a You Tube link with a demonstration. I'd consider it an Artistic Endeavor.

Not to say that it's absence led to your needing to reapply. You have other talents in The Arts as well. You should be giving the most emphasis to the humanistic element of your application.

I think your updated activities have a chance of trumping your low numbers, but to ensure an acceptance, include some DO schools on your application list if you are reluctant to retake the MCAT.

 

[FireTop]

hey guys, thank you SO much for the advice. its comforting haha

@mini moo - here are the schools i applied to in 2009-10

Albany
Einstein
Drexel
EVMS
GW
USC
Loma Linda
Marshall
NYMC
Rosalind Franklin
UCR/UCLA
UCSF
UCD
UCI
UCSD
University of Illinois - Chicago
Virginia Commonwealth
Temple
Penn State
Jefferson
Tufts
MC Wisconsin
TCMC
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@catalysik - i have some youtube vids of the dance team i founded at my undergrad. id LOVE to include that in my amcas. is that acceptable is what im worried about? and i know its hard to tell now, but do you really think my updated activities for this cycle have a decent chance of beating my lower numbers and making it past the interview stage?

One question i wanted to ask all of you! - if my numbers are so low, why did they grant me interviews? im below 2-3 points MCAT averages and .2 below GPA averages at all the schools i interviewed at. i think this is why im hesitant to retake...because they thought my numbers were decent enough the first time? i really dont know...




I am willing to re-take the MCAT, but only if you all think its COMPLETELY necessary.

thanks everyone! seriously. thanks!

 

[MiniMoo]

One question i wanted to ask all of you! - if my numbers are so low, why did they grant me interviews? im below 2-3 points MCAT averages and .2 below GPA averages at all the schools i interviewed at. i think this is why im hesitant to retake...because they thought my numbers were decent enough the first time? i really dont know...

Perhaps, numbers aside, something else about your application caught the eye of the adcoms and they decided to bring you in for an interview. But after interviewing and comparing your application to the rest of the interview pool, your numbers ultimately couldn't match up and they decided to reject you. It's also quite possible that you did not interview that well? It's really hard to say with any kind of certainty because I'm sure things vary between schools.

It's not absolutely imperative that you retake the MCAT, but your chances would increase dramatically if you can break the 30 barrier. Some data collected by AAMC: http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table24-mcatgpagridall2007-09.pdf

So with your GPA, if you go from a 29 MCAT (38.6% chance of acceptance) to a 30-32 MCAT (56.9% chance), you'd be increasing the likelihood of acceptance by almost 20%. I think that's definitely worth the time/energy of a retake.

 

[Catalystik]

What she said /\.

@catalysik - 1) i have some youtube vids of the dance team i founded at my undergrad. id LOVE to include that in my amcas. is that acceptable is what im worried about?

2) and i know its hard to tell now, but do you really think my updated activities for this cycle have a decent chance of beating my lower numbers and making it past the interview stage?

1) Yes, it's acceptable to include a You Tube link, but best if you are in it, and better yet, if you are a solo performer.

2) At issue is: What constitutes a "decent chance?" Are you now a shoo-in? I'd say, no. I'd go so far as to say that your chances are 20% higher than they were, with the high quality shadowing and the improvements/additions in community service activities. With another 20% from a higher MCAT score, and more besides with some added DO schools, then you're getting closer to a solid likelihood. But no one is a shoo-in, even the 4.0/40s, if you look closely at the grid MiniMoo linked to. And you still have some negatives of sparse research and intermittent, high-intensity (rather than weekly) clinical experience, which I don't know what to make of, but at least you have plenty of hours.

 

[tabascosauce]

you arent alone i applied in 2009-2010 cycle, am a CA resident, got 4 interviews, 3 waitlisted and 1 reject as well haha

we shall get in this year!!!

 

[FireTop]

hey guys

so i emailed the school that flat out rejected me post-interview and asked for some pointers on my application and why i was rejected. the dean emailed me back and said this...

"I have reviewed your application and feel that you are a strong candidate. I think your application and interviews pointed to a few areas where you could enhance your skills and background. Some of your medically related exposure and volunteer work seemed a bit shallow and the committee questioned your understanding and insight into medicine as a profession. I think that experiences are looked at by our committee from the perspective of "what have you learned rather than what did you do". I encourage students to engage in self exploration regarding the true motivation for a career in medicine.



Your grades and MCATs are reasonably competitive. Other aspects of your application are fine."


according to the dean, it seems that my clinical experiences weren't representative enough of what i actually knew about medicine (and to be honest i knew i didnt have enough exposure on my application)

well, with all of that said, thats why in the past 6 months i have done my best to get more exposure. as i posted above, ive shadowed 2 more doctors (100+ hours), 2 medical mission trips to Mexico, plus the all those other ECs i did not have last cycle.

i know its a hard question for you to answer, but based on what I have added and what the dean said, would you guys say i am in a much better position than i was a year ago? also, based on this new info from the dean...what more could i do to possibly help me out??

thanks again seriously!!!

 

[Catalystik]

I can't say you're in a 'much better' position. It looks to me like this particular school would also like to see you engaged in regular weekly clinical experience rather than having intermittent experience in actively engaging patients. The passive observership of shadowing should be helpful. The two mission trips (duration and your actual involvement unknown to us) will help too, but I'd expect, is not exactly what that school would want to see.

Can you get started in some regular weekly clinical volunteering and continue with it through the cycle?

 

[FireTop]

@Catalystik

i am actually shadowing 2 doctors right now (the cardiologist and the internal medicine) at least 1-2 times a week...so about 4-6 hours a week.

is this considered clinical exposure? i heard that shadowing can not necessarily be the best thing seen on an application? i have no idea what other kind of clinical exposure i should be getting involved in?

 

[mspeedwagon]

I would argue that you have good clinical experience that you are continuing to build on; however, I think the problem is your ability to communicate what you are learning from the experience.

I've seen a lot of pre-meds focus on the number of hrs/ and how much they do, but it's a matter of quality over quantity (quality being much more important). Make sure you learn to articulate what you got out of each experience and how it has furthered your path toward becoming a doctor.

I'd argue that interview prep, along with making sure you explain what you got out of each experience would further your application more than anything.

Volunteer at a hospital in addition to shadowing would be good to build your clinical exposure.

I'll let catalystik comment further based on her experience/opinion.

@Catalystik

i am actually shadowing 2 doctors right now (the cardiologist and the internal medicine) at least 1-2 times a week...so about 4-6 hours a week.

is this considered clinical exposure? i heard that shadowing can not necessarily be the best thing seen on an application? i have no idea what other kind of clinical exposure i should be getting involved in?

 

[foofish]

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[Catalystik]

@Catalystik

i am actually shadowing 2 doctors right now (the cardiologist and the internal medicine) at least 1-2 times a week...so about 4-6 hours a week.

is this considered clinical exposure? i heard that shadowing can not necessarily be the best thing seen on an application? i have no idea what other kind of clinical exposure i should be getting involved in?

Yes, shadowing is clinical exposure, but it is not clinical experience.

You need a weekly gig where you interact with sick people. Volunteering at a hospital for 3-4 hours per week is one way to do this. You could volunteer in any other medical milieu and achieve the same goal: nursing home, hospice, rehab center, VA/low-income/family-planning/or private clinic. You could also get a job in one of theser places. Don't work in a gift shop or some3where where you're dealing with relatives of patients. You need to serve the patients themselves.

The shadowing experience focuses on what the doctor is doing. It is a passive observership that doesn't require you to be engaged with the patient. Clinical experience focuses on the patient. You need both to demonstrate to adcomms that you've thoughtfully tested medicine as a career over a period of time.

What was the "clinical internship" you did? What did you do with patients in that clinic in Mexico?

 

[FireTop]

ohh ok thank you so much! i thought clinical exposure and clinical experience were the same things and thats why i started to shadow doctors. but now i will definitely work in a nursing home or something that works with direct patient interaction.

in my clinical care internship, i actually dealt directly with patients. I was able to help the nurses and doctors with some procedures (i.e. physically helped OB/GYN deliver a baby) but this was over 3 years ago and this was my only legit hands on patient experience.

in mexico, other than shadow, the doctors allowed me to take part in small procedures such as take blood pressure/vitals, and I actually injected water in a kids ear who had a ridiculous build up of ear wax.

do you think there is a specific type of clinical experience that would work best for me? or is a nursing home sound cool?

(thanks again for everyone thats responding!)

Yes, shadowing is clinical exposure, but it is not clinical experience.

You need a weekly gig where you interact with sick people. Volunteering at a hospital for 3-4 hours per week is one way to do this. You could volunteer in any other medical milieu and achieve the same goal: nursing home, hospice, rehab center, VA/low-income/family-planning/or private clinic. You could also get a job in one of theser places. Don't work in a gift shop or some3where where you're dealing with relatives of patients. You need to serve the patients themselves.

The shadowing experience focuses on what the doctor is doing. It is a passive observership that doesn't require you to be engaged with the patient. Clinical experience focuses on the patient. You need both to demonstrate to adcomms that you've thoughtfully tested medicine as a career over a period of time.

What was the "clinical internship" you did? What did you do with patients in that clinic in Mexico?

 

[Catalystik]

A nursing home will be fine for providing clinical experience, provided you don't work in the gift shop. You would want to ask for a position that provided lots of interaction with clients, like transportation to various parts of the facility, assisting with meal selection that suits their required diet, helping with exercize that promotes balance and strength, with crafts or games to enhance fine motor control, or providing conversation that stimulates memory or assesses cognitive ability. I'm sure there are other possibilities that are medically relevant that I haven't thought of.

 

[FireTop]

Hey everyone

I am submitting my AMCAS in less than a week. I have my LORs all lined up, but I don't know which ones to choose and I need some help deciding which ones are necessary and/or would help me the most considering my situation?


Here are my LOR options:


1) Biochemistry Professor -- should be a strong letter.
2) Biochemistry Hormone Professor -- should be a strong letter also
3) Biochemistry Professor from Grad School -- my masters program. is this necessary? i didnt develop a strong relationship...but i did get an A- in the class.
4) Music Professor - I need this one because its my only Non-Science letter right?
5) Executive Director from Schools on Wheels -- definitely strong. making a huge difference in a homeless kids life
6) Family Practitioner - MD I went on medical mission trips to Mexico with
7) Internist - MD . shadowed over 8 months and i know its strong. i tutor her daughter in ochem so she can vouch for my teaching aptitude
8) Cardiologist - MD shadowed for 3 months and i know it will also be strong because i tutor his daughter in ochem/physio as well.

i know shadowing letters arent the best since they are passive, but these doctors can vouch for my aptitude to teach and they have seen results with their own kids. would this be a good idea to add it in the letter?

im almost 100% im going to use numbers 1, 2 and 5.


--how many should i submit and which ones...??? please help!

--the executive director from schools on wheels is asking me what should she ultimately focus on in the letter? she really wants to help but is a little lost on what would be in my best interest

--same goes for the doctors. the internist wants a general idea of what should she could say other than shadowing? she asked if she should include my involvement in some procedures. ( i have cleaned ears, hold patients arms for examinations, roll over larger patients on beds)


--->> im just worried because of what the dean at the first school said earlier...about me not having enough clinical experiences and not really knowing what medicine is. i want my letters of rec to actually reflect that i do know




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one more thing i think you all should know. i emailed the dean this week at a school im currently waitlisted at and asked about EDP...here is the deans response.

I always appreciate all of the updates you send and the interest you have. I would recommend you submit your 2011 AMCAS application as soon as possible and let me know when your submit your application to us. Your application is a strong one and your enthusiam for X is obvious

i have developed a pretty strong relationship with this dean so far. the dean also said my numbers are a little too low for edp. i know this might be a dumb question, but do you think i have a better chance reapplying to that school now with my established relationship? should i do anything in particular to even better my chances?


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thanks again. sorry so long... thanks again to everyone that replies =]

 

[FireTop]

bump!

@catalsyk or minimoo ...especially you both. could i have some advice on my situation? thank you=]

 

[Catalystik]

The content and choices of LORs is not a WAMC topic. I suggest you repost that portion of your post in the PreMed Allo Forum to get the best attention. A physician letter is rarely asked for by allopathic med schools. Each school may request different letters and have different limits on # of letters allowed, so you'll designate them accordingly. It's a good idea to have them all on tap.

one more thing i think you all should know. i emailed the dean this week at a school im currently waitlisted at and asked about EDP...here is the deans response.

I always appreciate all of the updates you send and the interest you have. I would recommend you submit your 2011 AMCAS application as soon as possible and let me know when your submit your application to us. Your application is a strong one and your enthusiam for X is obvious

i have developed a pretty strong relationship with this dean so far. the dean also said my numbers are a little too low for edp. i know this might be a dumb question, but do you think i have a better chance reapplying to that school now with my established relationship? should i do anything in particular to even better my chances?

I think you have a better chance because you improved your application. The dean is not going to judge you differently because he likes you. He is obliged to stick to the standards the school has set.

I've already suggested some regular weekly clinical volunteering to improve your application. Did you find something yet?

 

[FireTop]

yes i did. i found a very welcoming free health clinic. i start in about a week after i get my TB test done. they said i can get involved with breast cancer screenings, and diabetes and hypertension chart review. problem is...i will already have submitted my primary. should i just mention that weekly clinical exp in my secondaries?

thanks again for the advice! MUCH appreciated ! ill keep you all updated

The content and choices of LORs is not a WAMC topic. I suggest you repost that portion of your post in the PreMed Allo Forum to get the best attention. A physician letter is rarely asked for by allopathic med schools. Each school may request different letters and have different limits on # of letters allowed, so you'll designate them accordingly. It's a good idea to have them all on tap.

I think you have a better chance because you improved your application. The dean is not going to judge you differently because he likes you. He is obliged to stick to the standards the school has set.

I've already suggested some regular weekly clinical volunteering to improve your application. Did you find something yet?

 

[Catalystik]

yes i did. i found a very welcoming free health clinic. i start in about a week after i get my TB test done.

problem is...i will already have submitted my primary. should i just mention that weekly clinical exp in my secondaries?

If the Secondary essay gives you any opportunity to mention it, of course, mention it. For schools that don't ask, I'd send an update letter about two months into the experience detailing hours, etc, then again two months after that or the about end of fall term. Then again in mid spring.

 

[FireTop]

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[Catalystik]

Congrats, and thanks for letting us know your good news. Best of luck!

 

[DDX2k]

I disagree with the advice you were given. I think it should have been included, along with a You Tube link with a demonstration. I'd consider it an Artistic Endeavor.

Not to say that it's absence led to your needing to reapply. You have other talents in The Arts as well. You should be giving the most emphasis to the humanistic element of your application.

I think your updated activities have a chance of trumping your low numbers, but to ensure an acceptance, include some DO schools on your application list if you are reluctant to retake the MCAT.

On a similar note: I have been playing, teaching, and competing in capoeira for several years. Should I include a Youtube video on that as well? Does it qualify as an artistic endeavor? I'm low on clinical experience as well...do you think I should beef that up, Cat? Apologies for the hijack...

BTW, congrats to the OP and thanks for the update!

 

[Catalystik]

DDX2k, I'll see you on your old WAMC thread where I'll quote your question for discussion.

 

[DDX2k]

DDX2k, I'll see you on your old WAMC thread where I'll quote your question for discussion.

Thanks! You're the best.