Advice please

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rebeccajkoo

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GPA college: 2.7
Post bacc: 3.84

MCAT: 29 (old)

Volunteer - over 200 hours estimated
Medical Scribe - over 1000 hrs scribing for trauma unit, family practitioner, psychotherapist/nutritionist, ent, ortho trauma surgeon
Shadow - over 150 hrs all MD unfortunately but a handful of different specialties for almost 2 yrs
TA in chemistry for 1 yr

MSUCOM - got interview and rejection

Still waiting for:

LECOM
NYIT
OUHCOM
Western
PCOM
Rowan


I'm sure I'm missing things that I should list but I'm super stressed. It's almost March and it looks like I'm not going to get any more interviews - I'll be VERY surprised if I do but I'm a natural cynic.

I'm not sure what my next move should be. I really don't want to wait for another year especially given the new AACOMAS rule for GPA calculations which is freaking me out. Should I apply for a THIRD TIME that I may not even have any chance with? Or move onto Caribbean schools?

Thank you in advance! I appreciate anything and everything!
 
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rebeccajkoo said:
GPA college: 2.7
Post bacc: 3.84

MCAT: 29 (old)

Volunteer - over 200 hours estimated
Medical Scribe - over 1000 hrs scribing for trauma unit, family practitioner, psychotherapist/nutritionist, ent, ortho trauma surgeon
Shadow - over 150 hrs all MD unfortunately but a handful of different specialties for almost 2 yrs
TA in chemistry for 1 yr

MSUCOM - got interview and rejection

Still waiting for:

LECOM
NYIT
OUHCOM
Western
PCOM
Rowan


I'm sure I'm missing things that I should list but I'm super stressed. It's almost March and it looks like I'm not going to get any more interviews - I'll be VERY surprised if I do but I'm a natural cynic.

I'm not sure what my next move should be. I really don't want to wait for another year especially given the new AACOMAS rule for GPA calculations which are freaking me out. Should I apply for a THIRD TIME that I may not even have any chance with? Or move onto Caribbean schools?

Thank you in advance! I appreciate anything and everything!
Click to expand...
What's your GPA without grade replacement?
 
Are the six schools you mentioned the only ones you are waiting on?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
How many schools did you apply to and what is your complete list?
 
17 schools:

MSUCOM - interview, rejected
Midwestern - secondary, rejected
NYIT - secondary, waiting
Ohio U - secondary, waiting
PCOM - secondary, waiting
UNECOM - secondary, rejected
Western - both campuses - secondaries, rejected from Lebanon and waiting on Pomona
Rocky Vista - rejected
Touro - all 3 campuses - rejected
LECOM - secondary, waiting
Baylor - rejected
Pacific NW - secondary, rejected
Edward Va - rejected
 
So here is the pickle, you will most likely have to retake the MCAT because your score is most likely expired for most if not all schools. On the other hand I think if you do retake it and do well, i.e. Same score or higher so like 507+, you still have a chance. Your list does not have enough of the newer or more rural schools on it, and if you include those and apply as broadly as you can then I think your chances are decent. How many credits was your post bac?
 
I would be happy to retake the MCAT but what's freaking me out is the low GPA. And those new/rural schools won't get me great residencies though would they? and that's the same position I would be in if I went to Caribbean schools this August isn't it? That's why I'm banging my head against the wall. and I have no clue what specialty i want to go into.

Credits were 71 semester credits.
 
With that GPA, a post-bacc might be your best bet, especially a linked one.

Agree with @AnatomyGrey12-- your chances at DO are better than your chances in the Caribbean.

Edit: scrolled back up, saw you already did a post bacc. Never mind.
 
Grumbling about the 1 year staying here but ok. thank you! I appreciate everything!
 
Have you considered linkage programs? Or an SMP type program?
 
aren't those the same things as the post-bacc program i recently finished? i considered them a few years ago but my gpa wasn't high enough for the linkage/master's programs so i had to go with the one that did accept me.
 
MaximusD said:
Says who?
Click to expand...
Says statistics. Although I would say that the carribean schools lower stats are attributed to poor students. A 3.8+ postbac at 71 credits and a 29 MCAT show that OP can handle the curriculum and COMLEX/USMLE. OP, If DO schools cant seem to look past your undergrad gpa, I think you would be the exception and should apply to the Caribbean as a last resort. The low (50%ish) graduation rates at those schools are mostly because they accept students that they know will fail. You're not going to fail as your MCAT and stellar 2-year postbac proves it.
 
bears1992 said:
Says statistics. Although I would say that the carribean schools lower stats are attributed to poor students. A 3.8+ postbac at 71 credits and a 29 MCAT show that OP can handle the curriculum and COMLEX/USMLE. OP, If DO schools cant seem to look past your undergrad gpa, I think you would be the exception and should apply to the Caribbean as a last resort. The low (50%ish) graduation rates at those schools are mostly because they accept students that they know will fail. You're not going to fail as your MCAT and stellar 2-year postbac proves it.
Click to expand...

Thank you! I'm just bummed that I went to an interview and I was rejected!! Not even waitlisted!! ARGH!! And that's costing me another year of standing in the same place even though I feel I put my best foot forward while paying all the fees with my other foot.
 
You might want to consider contacting the places you got rejections from to see if they would be willing to give you any insights to where they felt your application was weakest. Hearing directly from them would provide the most accurate information. Additionally, realize each school focuses on different aspects of the application, so you will be getting different answers from different schools.


Thanks.


Wook





rebeccajkoo said:
GPA college: 2.7
Post bacc: 3.84

MCAT: 29 (old)

Volunteer - over 200 hours estimated
Medical Scribe - over 1000 hrs scribing for trauma unit, family practitioner, psychotherapist/nutritionist, ent, ortho trauma surgeon
Shadow - over 150 hrs all MD unfortunately but a handful of different specialties for almost 2 yrs
TA in chemistry for 1 yr

MSUCOM - got interview and rejection

Still waiting for:

LECOM
NYIT
OUHCOM
Western
PCOM
Rowan


I'm sure I'm missing things that I should list but I'm super stressed. It's almost March and it looks like I'm not going to get any more interviews - I'll be VERY surprised if I do but I'm a natural cynic.

I'm not sure what my next move should be. I really don't want to wait for another year especially given the new AACOMAS rule for GPA calculations which is freaking me out. Should I apply for a THIRD TIME that I may not even have any chance with? Or move onto Caribbean schools?

Thank you in advance! I appreciate anything and everything!
Click to expand...
 
I've already set up an appointment with MSUCOM. A few of the other schools point to my GPA which I can't fix no matter how many years I go to school. I mentioned in my primary the reason why and how I learned from my mistakes but I guess they didn't look at that. Thanks!
 
Hey OP

Have you considered podiatry programs? You MCAT is really great and ur GPA in not prohibitive at some programs
 
I wouldn't go to the Carib. It's not worth the financial risk anymore. Waiting another year might suck, but it'll be worth it in the long run if you get accepted to a solid school as opposed to being in a dog eat dog world in the Carib where it's less of a guarantee that you'll get accepted into a residency program.

* Shadow a DO. Try to get a DO LOR.
* Retake the new MCAT; 505+ will make you competitive for the established schools.
* At least apply to all the schools that are older than 10 years if you're worried they're not established.
* Get more volunteering hours, or if you take an extra year, see if you can work/volunteer at a research lab (this will be tougher to do however).
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Natural Killer Cell said:
I wouldn't go to the Carib. It's not worth the financial risk anymore. Waiting another year might suck, but it'll be worth it in the long run if you get accepted to a solid school as opposed to being in a dog eat dog world in the Carib where it's less of a guarantee that you'll get accepted into a residency program.

* Shadow a DO. Try to get a DO LOR.
* Retake the new MCAT; 505+ will make you competitive for the established schools.
* At least apply to all the schools that are older than 10 years if you're worried they're not established.
* Get more volunteering hours, or if you take an extra year, see if you can work/volunteer at a research lab (this will be tougher to do however).
Click to expand...

I would have to get a job unfortunately. Bills/student loans are around the corner so it's not even a question what I would do with another year - workworkwork and pay the bills.

I will certainly retake the MCAT. I'm just trying to figure out which schools are worth applying to because without the grade replacement, my GPA is below 3.0 and I know that at some schools they will just say no automatically.

Thank you for the advicE!
 
Sorry another thing - which schools do you suggest I apply to? Or how can I start looking? Just go to every school's website and check the requirements? Without the AACOMAS grade replacement, my gpa is far below 3.0 and even if I retake the MCAT, I'm afraid some won't give me a chance.

California resident.
 
Unfortunately you're most likely DOA at all schools if your gpa isn't at least 3.0
 
Ok so now i'm confused. people are telling to retake the MCAT and try again but if there's no point with my gpa not at least 3.0 then shouldn't i just go to the caribbean this year?
 
DO2015CA said:
Unfortunately you're most likely DOA at all schools if your gpa isn't at least 3.0
Click to expand...

Eh it most likely depends on how many credits her post bac is. If it was only like 15 credits then yeah she is screwed, but if it is a lot, like 30+ or even better around 45, then I think she has a chance.

OP if you do reapply and retake the MCAT then you need to apply to every single school you can afford to, and focus on the newer ones. You will need to scour school websites to determine which schools cut off where and apply to any school that won't have a computer screen you out. It will help if you could demolish the MCAT on the retake.

Another good option is podiatry, like was mentioned above.
 
I'm forming my school list to apply to for next year and it mostly consists of MD schools who have no gpa cutoff....which is backwards from what I expected. oh well....
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Eh it most likely depends on how many credits her post bac is. If it was only like 15 credits then yeah she is screwed, but if it is a lot, like 30+ or even better around 45, then I think she has a chance.

OP if you do reapply and retake the MCAT then you need to apply to every single school you can afford to, and focus on the newer ones. You will need to scour school websites to determine which schools cut off where and apply to any school that won't have a computer screen you out. It will help if you could demolish the MCAT on the retake.

Another good option is podiatry, like was mentioned above.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately most schools won't look at sub-3.0 applicants. Most people it's because they believe they can't handle it but even a 50 unit post-bac with all A's. Because no matter what they tell you, they still care about their stats. There are so many qualified applicants that don't get accepted every year, many of them make the minimum cut offs for what they're looking for. I hope it works out for you but unless you can get it to 3.0 I wouldn't risk apply.. especially if you're from California. No regional breaks for you
 
bears1992 said:
Says statistics. Although I would say that the carribean schools lower stats are attributed to poor students. A 3.8+ postbac at 71 credits and a 29 MCAT show that OP can handle the curriculum and COMLEX/USMLE. OP, If DO schools cant seem to look past your undergrad gpa, I think you would be the exception and should apply to the Caribbean as a last resort. The low (50%ish) graduation rates at those schools are mostly because they accept students that they know will fail. You're not going to fail as your MCAT and stellar 2-year postbac proves it.
Click to expand...

Show me them. These stats. And they had better be statistics for the schools you listed, not DO schools, generally speaking.
 
Just curious, what did your post-bac consist of?
 
DO2015CA said:
Unfortunately most schools won't look at sub-3.0 applicants. Most people it's because they believe they can't handle it but even a 50 unit post-bac with all A's. Because no matter what they tell you, they still care about their stats. There are so many qualified applicants that don't get accepted every year, many of them make the minimum cut offs for what they're looking for. I hope it works out for you but unless you can get it to 3.0 I wouldn't risk apply.. especially if you're from California. No regional breaks for you
Click to expand...

it's very confusing because my cgpa was calculated on aacomas as below 3.0 this year too (i made a bad mistake and they refused to change it) but i got an interview....so i was almost there. if my gpa was an issue, i was told that i wouldn't be invited for an interview in the first place. i'm going to call them next week to talk about the rejection they ultimately gave me but my advisor and numerous other advisors and people said to look for schools who look at the app "holistically". and if that doesn't work just go to the caribbean.
 
kamakazi5 said:
Just curious, what did your post-bac consist of?
Click to expand...

retook ochem and physics. genetics, biochem, developmental bio, path, endocrinology, microbio, etc. you get the idea. upper div science classes that i got mostly A's on.
 
rebeccajkoo said:
retook ochem and physics. genetics, biochem, developmental bio, path, endocrinology, microbio, etc. you get the idea. upper div science classes that i got mostly A's on.
Click to expand...

Sounds good. I'm just about finishing up my own DIY post-bac and was curious. I took a very similar route.
 
Just look at the nmrp match list now that osteo has its own category. Compare match numbers and then even specialties
 
Your MCAT score is definitely competitive for DO schools. Your college GPA is too low, but your postbac GPA should make up for it. You have considerable amount of clinical experience (being a medical scribe is a plus for med schools). No DO shadowing experience or LOR is fine as long as you're not in a DO-rich area. You submitted secondaries and got rejected without interviewing by multiple programs could mean that your PS or LORs raised a red flag. Are you confident that both are great? How well do you know the people who wrote your LORs?
 
i have edited my ps with my advisor at school - multiple times so i'm sure it's good. it may be the LORs.....although I hate to admit it. One professor has a fantastic LOR for me (he sent it to me so I know). the other one was a desperate one because I honestly couldn't find another professor but she should be good. the doctor one.....yea....I will think about them. Thank you so much!!!
 
MaximusD said:
Show me them. These stats. And they had better be statistics for the schools you listed, not DO schools, generally speaking.
Click to expand...

The above is why you will have a better chance as new school DO than the Carib. For starters, your chances of actually getting a degree are a lot higher.
 
gonnif said:
as I've said often, before considering any offshore school applicant must go through at least two application cycles for both MD and DO with at least a year break in between (ie skip a cycle) for application repair and/or enhancement. the break is necessary to analyze and understand the weaknesses in an application. Repair may be as simple as reorganizing rewriting application or it may require postbacc, SMP, MCAT, or additional extracurricular such as clinical volunteering and other items. I strongly advise that no student should consider off shore schools until the above has been done.

A decade or more ago, the Caribbean was a reasonable path to medicine It isnt the quality of the education in the Caribbean , which is questionable, that is the issue here at all. It is solely the reported (or discernible) match rate of the graduates and the underlying (and mostly unreported) attrition rate for matriculants which leads to what I call the success rate. That is, if you start medical school, what are the chances you will get a residency slot. I have discussed this at length is several other threads (links below). Essentially, in US MD schools, 94% of students graduate in 5 years going to 97% in 8 years (accounts for dual degree students). Graduating US MD seniors match into residency at 94% with likely 2%-4% getting SOAP slots. Lets say 97% total get positions. So if you start a US MD school, you have an overall 94% chance of earning your degree and getting a residency slot, thus allowing you to eventually practice medicine and pay your loans back. It should also be noted that about 75% of graduating seniors get into one of their top three ranked choices.

Bloomberg has cited from DeVry Medical International (Ross/AUC corporate parent) see link below) that Ross, for example, has about 52% of their students who complete the program and earn a degree. Of these about 85% receive a residency slot. SGU has previously reported about 30% of it graduates go to non-match slots via SOAP, off-cycle, or other mechanisms which essentially means what is ever left open at the end of the match. So if you start Ross, for example, you have an under 45% chance of earning a degree and getting any residency slot. Big risk for several hundred thousands of dollars in loans and less than a 45% chance of practicing medicine.


https://forums.studentdoctor.net/th...ty-of-antigua-thoughts.1200362/#post-17764662
https://forums.studentdoctor.net/th...rade-replacement.1236525/page-2#post-18479914
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...an-medical-schools-use-federal-funds-loophole
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...pre-med-matriculate-in-the-caribbean.1183556/
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/us-md-for-320k-or-img-for-100k.1130221/
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/good-chance-at-getting-into-st-georges-should-i-do-it-3-4-overall-gpa-3-55-science-gpa.1133776/#post-16443492
https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/the-future-of-residency-in-the-usa.1243768/#post-18660540
https://forums.studentdoctor.net/th...ecent-match-list.1211845/page-2#post-18267691
https://forums.studentdoctor.net/th...ibbean-medical-schools.1240061/#post-18563577
Click to expand...

Again, my post is in regards to NEW osteopathic medical schools that are untested. My assertion would be that it is wise to apply to schools which have already graduated a few classes, at minimum. It may not be fair to extrapolate the success of past DO schools to the newbies which may or may not be a/w ample residency opportunities. In effect, this would make them on par with Carib schools in my mind until PROVEN otherwise with proven success.
 
rebeccajkoo said:
it's very confusing because my cgpa was calculated on aacomas as below 3.0 this year too (i made a bad mistake and they refused to change it) but i got an interview....so i was almost there. if my gpa was an issue, i was told that i wouldn't be invited for an interview in the first place. i'm going to call them next week to talk about the rejection they ultimately gave me but my advisor and numerous other advisors and people said to look for schools who look at the app "holistically". and if that doesn't work just go to the caribbean.
Click to expand...
For an average Joe like m, your success in your extensive postbac program and good MCAT score make it obvious that you would do well in medical school. The problem is, adcoms are not average Joes and they are most influenced by your overall GPA, plus a sub 3.0 gpa limits you to what schools will even see your application. If you can get your GPA above a 3.0 with 3 full time semesters, I would go that route. If it would take more than 60 additional credits on top of your postbac I would consider applying to one of the top four Caribbean schools.

The reason the Caribbean graduation rates are so low is because they accept students who have not proven that they can handle med school. Their typical student is one with a sub 500 MCAT and/or a 3.0 GPA with no/little upward trend. Most students who get rejected at DO/MD US schools get rejected because they are high risk. You are a special case. You are getting medical school rejections simply because you aren't meeting the cutoffs and/or you'd be bringing down a schools matriculate stats. I would not consider you a high risk student. Students who are high risk are going to have a 50% chance of failing out of a Caribbean school whereas they would have a 10%ish chance of failing out of a US schools. US schools actually want their students to graduate, Caribbean schools make more money when you fail after two years.
 
MaximusD said:
Again, my post is in regards to NEW osteopathic medical schools that are untested. My assertion would be that it is wise to apply to schools which have already graduated a few classes, at minimum. It may not be fair to extrapolate the success of past DO schools to the newbies which may or may not be a/w ample residency opportunities. In effect, this would make them on par with Carib schools in my mind until PROVEN otherwise with proven success.
Click to expand...
There has never been a new DO or MD school that had a graduating class as low as 50%. LUCOMs first class had a 85% graduation rate which was mocked by other schools as being a failed DO school. Caribbean schools have sub 50% graduation rates consistently. A conservative low end estimate for a new DO school's graduation rate would be 85%. That's still miles ahead of the best Caribbean school's graduating classes of the past 15 years.
 
bears1992 said:
There has never been a new DO or MD school that had a graduating class as low as 50%. LUCOMs first class had a 85% graduation rate which was mocked by other schools as being a failed DO school. Caribbean schools have sub 50% graduation rates consistently. A conservative low end estimate for a new DO school's graduation rate would be 85%. That's still miles ahead of the best Caribbean school's graduating classes of the past 15 years.
Click to expand...

That is a good argument. Appreciate the input.

Obviously this suggests match rates are going to be superior as well although I would want to review that.
 
bears1992 said:
For an average Joe like m, your success in your extensive postbac program and good MCAT score make it obvious that you would do well in medical school. The problem is, adcoms are not average Joes and they are most influenced by your overall GPA, plus a sub 3.0 gpa limits you to what schools will even see your application. If you can get your GPA above a 3.0 with 3 full time semesters, I would go that route. If it would take more than 60 additional credits on top of your postbac I would consider applying to one of the top four Caribbean schools.

The reason the Caribbean graduation rates are so low is because they accept students who have not proven that they can handle med school. Their typical student is one with a sub 500 MCAT and/or a 3.0 GPA with no/little upward trend. Most students who get rejected at DO/MD US schools get rejected because they are high risk. You are a special case. You are getting medical school rejections simply because you aren't meeting the cutoffs and/or you'd be bringing down a schools matriculate stats. I would not consider you a high risk student. Students who are high risk are going to have a 50% chance of failing out of a Caribbean school whereas they would have a 10%ish chance of failing out of a US schools. US schools actually want their students to graduate, Caribbean schools make more money when you fail after two years.
Click to expand...


I would've stayed in my post-back program longer but first it's not financially viable for me and also, it would take way more than 60 credits. My advisor said that basically even if I was in school for 10 yrs my GPA would barely budge. and that's just the math. but I've been told by almost everyone (see above 😛) that Caribbeans are a bad idea so......I'm just chasing my tail here.
 
rebeccajkoo said:
I would be happy to retake the MCAT but what's freaking me out is the low GPA. And those new/rural schools won't get me great residencies though would they? and that's the same position I would be in if I went to Caribbean schools this August isn't it? That's why I'm banging my head against the wall. and I have no clue what specialty i want to go into.

Credits were 71 semester credits.
Click to expand...

1) you need to get into medical school first to get a residency. Focus on getting in before thinking about residency.
2) even a newer/rural school will give you a shot at better residencies than will a carrib school. In fact these schools will give you a shot AT a residency.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Alienman52 said:
1) you need to get into medical school first to get a residency. Focus on getting in before thinking about residency.
2) even a newer/rural school will give you a shot at better residencies than will a carrib school. In fact these schools will give you a shot AT a residency.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
Click to expand...

Thank you! I'm forming my list of schools to apply to next year. They mostly consist of MD schools which surprised me because I thought they would cut me off but their websites confirmed that they look at the applications more "holistically". DO schools are a different story and I would be applying to some of them for a third time so I'm thinking it's a waste of money to apply to the same schools next year. As a CA
 
rebeccajkoo said:
I would've stayed in my post-back program longer but first it's not financially viable for me and also, it would take way more than 60 credits. My advisor said that basically even if I was in school for 10 yrs my GPA would barely budge. and that's just the math. but I've been told by almost everyone (see above 😛) that Caribbeans are a bad idea so......I'm just chasing my tail here.
Click to expand...

My dear sweet lovely OP, people have said basically three options. I'll list them for you as a recap in order of most attractive.

Check out podiatry school. Seriously.

Do a SMP.

Do something else. Never go to carribean.
 
GypsyHummus said:
My dear sweet lovely OP, people have said basically three options. I'll list them for you as a recap in order of most attractive.

Check out podiatry school. Seriously.

Do a SMP.

Do something else. Never go to carribean.
Click to expand...

I won't go to Caribbean haha. I promise.

Post-back is pretty much the same as SMP so I don't think my parents would support that decision at all.

and again no to podiatry.
 
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