Affects on pharmacy of Roe vs Wade being overturned -

[Dred Pirate]

Not wanting to discuss peoples opinions on this - that is for another time and place.
But for those of you living in states were there are now bans- how does that affect you as a pharmacist?
Methotrexate for ectopics? I was under the impression some states didn't have exceptions for health of the mother (I could be wrong on this and I can't find confirmation via google).
What sort of documentation is needed for "health of the mother"?
Any of you had official work discussions on the impacts?

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[owlegrad]

In all my time at CVS I do not recall anyone ever asking for more than one Plan B.

 

[steveysmith54]

In all my time at CVS I do not recall anyone ever asking for more than one Plan B.

I had maybe twice. One lady said she was going on vacation to Latin America and said she wanted 3 boxes…
The other was a prescription written for two boxes, the insurance only allowed me dispense one, the patient got quite upset.

 

[steveysmith54]

Because she has two daughters

Either way, I don’t miss the retail grind , those can be major issues lol… I would dread explaining any type of women health issues to patients. I remember how difficult it was just telling a woman that she was out of refill on her birth control on Sundays was bad enough. I can’t imagine how bad this could get in certain states for practicing retail pharmacists.

 

[vinapharm]

Because she has two daughters

So the 3D one for herself then…what the heck? All 3 of them gonna sleep around? Should report a cases of suspecting women trafficking…

 

[steveysmith54]

So the 3D one for herself then…what the heck? All 3 of them gonna sleep around? Should report a cases of suspecting women trafficking…

It was a long vacation to several countries, I was told. She was in her early 20’s and no kids. She is an adult, if she wishes to engage in unprotected consensual intercourse followed by plan-b, that's her own choice.

 

[VA77]

Well we got covid testing and imzs dumped on us so might as well handle the abortion issue as well. Pharmacist, the first and last line of healthcare.

 

[lord999]

In all my time at CVS I do not recall anyone ever asking for more than one Plan B.

Which selling more than one even before the recent ruling would be suspect anyway. I think you would have good grounds to refuse on lack of emergency grounds (the dispense is not prophylactic for non-prescription OTC use, it must be post-hoc).

As for AZ, there's confusion over whether the strict ban from the territorial days or the one passed in anticipation of this is precedent. Unfortunately, the stricter of the two technically would extend to dispensing contraception whatsoever due to how specific the territory law is. I highly, highly doubt that AZ would enforce it that way for standard contraception but Colorado City, AZ (FLDS stronghold) might enforce it on Plan B. I'd hate to be the Safeway pharmacist up there.

MN's policy is more liberal than Sweden's to the point that we just got a "come one, come all" executive order that is unambiguous in asserting the status quo.

For the Feds, business as usual. We aren't allowed to dispense emergency contraception without prescription anyway, though the interesting thing is that for abortions, the practice scope depends on license origin even if practicing in a federal facility. Everyone might need to get a CA license now! The only hardcore "life goes on" is what has been passed for the Bureau of Prisons where their laws and regulations trump any states and this has been tested extensively in court. Not for good reasons though, recall the Bureau of Prisons under the Commissioned Corps forced sterilize and forced abortions on unwilling inmates (IHS did similar involuntary with tubal ligation for FAS births), so the laws are quite detailed on what can and can't be done to an inmate.

 

[confettiflyer]

Everyone might need to get a CA license now!

You paged California? lol, just kidding, not really.

Serious question though, CA aside, what other states have, or are expressly planning, legislation refusing to both cooperate with out-of-state attempts to discipline licenses over abortion, and refusing to take reciprocal action on licensees being disciplined for out-of-state abortion actions? I've only seen the "west coast wall" in recent news (CA, OR, WA).

Civil liability is nullified and severed as of Friday. Here are the remaining pending laws that will likely be passed within the next 30-60 days:

• AB 1918 creates the California Reproductive Health Service Corps in the Department of Health Care Access and Information. It creates more reproductive health providers by recruiting, training and retaining teams assigned to work in underserved areas. It has passed the Assembly 65-16 and is now in a Senate committee.​

​

• AB 2091 enhances privacy protections for abortion-related medical records and ensures that they cannot be subpoenaed by law enforcement or out-of-state-claims. It has passed the Assembly 54-16 and is pending in the Senate Health Committee.​

​

• AB 2626 protects doctors, midwives, nurse practitioners and physician assistants by preventing professional boards from revoking or suspending a license for providing lawful abortion care in California or in other states. After clearing the Assembly 76-0, it is awaiting action in the Senate Appropriations Committee.​

​

• AB 2134 establishes the California Reproductive Health Equity Program to provide state-paid abortion and contraception coverage for those who seek care in California and whose household income is at or below 400% of federal poverty level. It passed the Assembly 53-19 and is pending in the Senate Judiciary Committee.​

​

• SB 1142 creates a “one-stop shop” internet webpage under California’s Department of Health and Human Services that features links for abortion care, post-operation resources, abortion financial support services and health care service resources. After passing the Senate 29-9, the bill awaits action in an Assembly committee.​

​

• AB 2223 would ensure that no one in the state will be investigated, prosecuted or incarcerated for ending a pregnancy or experiencing pregnancy loss. The bill passed the Assembly 48-21 and is pending in the Senate Health Committee.​

​

• SB 1375 would allow nurse practitioners to more easily work independently of a doctor and perform abortions. Passing the Senate 30-9, it now waits in the Assembly Appropriations Committee.​

​

​

I'm looking for similar protections discussed in AB 2626 above applied to pharmacists specifically, but did not find any yet.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

In all my time at CVS I do not recall anyone ever asking for more than one Plan B.

Happened this weekend. Girl came in and bought 3. No idea what the story is. Just sold it and went back into the frying pan.

 

[Chrish]

Going back 100 years in time would affect everyone I would assume..

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

Serious question though, CA aside, what other states have, or are expressly planning, legislation refusing to both cooperate with out-of-state attempts to discipline licenses over abortion, and refusing to take reciprocal action on licensees being disciplined for out-of-state abortion actions? I've only seen the "west coast wall" in recent news (CA, OR, WA).

New York and Connecticut at least. I'd imagine at least a few more too

 

[WVUPharm2007]

New York and Connecticut at least. I'd imagine at least a few more too

Pretty soon we will have the choice of living in the Woke States or the Christo-Fascist states.

Yay, America.

 

[alpha12]

 

[mentos]

Pretty soon we will have the choice of living in the Woke States or the Christo-Fascist states.

Yay, America.

Most people can't even name or label 50% of those states correctly.

 

[alpha12]

Most people can't even name or label 50% of those states correctly.

Scary if that’s true.

 

[alpha12]

Pretty soon we will have the choice of living in the Woke States or the Christo-Fascist states.

Yay, America.

Think of how far a poor woman in south Florida will need to travel.

 

[owlegrad]

Most people can't even name or label 50% of those states correctly.

I doubt I could label 25 states correctly.

We haven’t had any communications at work about it, surprisingly. We certainly get enough updates about every other issue.

 

[alpha12]

New York and Connecticut at least. I'd imagine at least a few more too

Illinois as well

 

[mentos]

Why did alpha get banned?

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Think of how far a poor woman in south Florida will need to travel.

Looking at the map, it looks like Cairo, Illinois is destined to become the travel abortion capitol of the country.

 

[Dred Pirate]

Why did alpha get banned?

conservative moderator didn't like their liberal views?

 

[Dred Pirate]

I doubt I could label 25 states correctly.

We haven’t had any communications at work about it, surprisingly. We certainly get enough updates about every other issue.

I am a geography nerd so I would have no issue (we had to do it in 9th grade social studies) - but one of my co-workers had his daughters homework - which was a webiste where they had to match the states with the names - he only got 24 right - I was shocked - maybe I am the nerd outlier.

 

[Dred Pirate]

Looking at the map, it looks like Cairo, Illinois is destined to become the travel abortion capitol of the country.

should move this post to the investment thread. $$

 

[Chrish]

Pharmacy forum is a joke.. As soon as someone voices opinion on something remotely controversial, either thread gets locked or someone gets banned.

I couldn’t care less about that poster but it was silly for him to get banned for this.

 

[Niceguy90]

I remember an old pharmacist refusing to fill Cytotec Rx, the Sig was to "take in the morning before the procedure" he called OBGYN to get DX(it was for the abortion), He said it's a high risk to the mother because of the possibility of heavy bleeding and it may cause harm to the mother even death also it's not approved by FDA for this particular purpose and he is not comfortable dispensing.

 

[DagS132]

Pharmacy forum is a joke.. As soon as someone voices opinion on something remotely controversial, either thread gets locked or someone gets banned.

I couldn’t care less about that poster but it was silly for him to get banned for this.

Pretty funny considering you wanted me banned just cause I wasnt a pharmacist

 

[Chrish]

Pretty funny considering you wanted me banned just cause I wasnt a pharmacist

No idea what you are talking about..

 

[Chrish]

I remember an old pharmacist refusing to fill Cytotec Rx, the Sig was to "take in the morning before the procedure" he called OBGYN to get DX(it was for the abortion), He said it's a high risk to the mother because of the possibility of heavy bleeding and it may cause harm to the mother even death also it's not approved by FDA for this particular purpose and he is not comfortable dispensing.

Technically speaking he can refuse it this way due to clinical judgment. But deep inside we all know the real reason.

That’s why hyper-religious folks are dangerous. They can make anything sound convincing without revealing actual motive.

 

[Dred Pirate]

I remember an old pharmacist refusing to fill Cytotec Rx, the Sig was to "take in the morning before the procedure" he called OBGYN to get DX(it was for the abortion), He said it's a high risk to the mother because of the possibility of heavy bleeding and it may cause harm to the mother even death also it's not approved by FDA for this particular purpose and he is not comfortable dispensing.

that guy is a sanctimonious asshat - reminds me of the ED doc I worked with that refused plan b to a sexual assault pt because "she can buy it over the counter" - I actually told him his religious beliefs had no place here and went and got another doc to order it.

 

[RxPreceptor]

Pretty soon we will have the choice of living in the Woke States or the Christo-Fascist states.

Yay, America.

Alright, let’s get this over with…Civil War 2

 

[Sparda29]

I'm definitely going to be mailing abortion pills to states where it's gonna be illegal. Already ordered thousands of Misoprostol.

 

[mentos]

Alright, let’s get this over with…Civil War 2

Inside vs outside? Inside can have the 4 blue ones LoL

 

[mentos]

Pharmacy forum is a joke.. As soon as someone voices opinion on something remotely controversial, either thread gets locked or someone gets banned.

I couldn’t care less about that poster but it was silly for him to get banned for this.

Yup another 10 year member bites the dust for no reason.

 

[Dred Pirate]

Yup another 10 year member bites the dust for no reason.

I wish one of the moderators would explain the rationale - where there other posts we didn't see? I mean, come on - we have to have thicker skin (who is the snowflake?), anyone who has worked in retail sees crap worse than that on a daily basis.

 

[DagS132]

If it was truly offensive, would you guys really want those kinds of posts to stay up on these forums? Do you guys really need a reason for everyone's ban?

 

[Dred Pirate]

If it was truly offensive, would you guys really want those kinds of posts to stay up on these forums? Do you guys really need a reason for everyone's ban?

I think an explanation from somebody is in order when a long time member is banned. Was this due to the posts we can see or due to posts that were removed? I hate over moderation, but agree spam, or excessive back and forth needs moderation simply to keep things relatively civil.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Another day, another ban from our joke maudes.

 

[Chrish]

What’s next? Ban vasectomy?

“You can’t modify something which is natural”.

 

[owlegrad]

I think an explanation from somebody is in order when a long time member is banned. Was this due to the posts we can see or due to posts that were removed? I hate over moderation, but agree spam, or excessive back and forth needs moderation simply to keep things relatively civil.

My experience with discussions of members being banned is that it is difficult to participate in them in good faith. But I will try in this case since you asked.

The member had several warnings over multiple years about their posts. In this case it was the repeated use of the phrase “Christian Taliban”, which regardless of how you want to frame it, is meant to be inflammatory/insulting. We removed one of the posts but not the other (I don’t know why, probably human error).

It’s funny because my politics closely aligns with the views being expressed so this certainly was not politically motivated. It was a long history of the user pushing the bounds and stepping way over them. This isn’t the forum for that.

I think it’s pretty well known that we have a returned banned member posting right now. I don’t go out of my way to ban people. I like having an active forum and I like hearing different opinions. But when people are posting things like “Christian Taliban” that is going too far. And I have never banned a long term member for a single post. And I have never banned a returned member if they follow the TOS and contribute positively following their return.

 

[RxPreceptor]

Inside vs outside? Inside can have the 4 blue ones LoL

Or maybe we can go 3 separate countries…NE, West coast, and Central.
NE is already more similar to a European country anyways (size, population density)

Perhaps Canada and Mexico can pick up the geographically relevant blue states that don’t fit in with central “Mare-Cuh”?

 

[mentos]

SDN likes to taliBAN long time members.

 

[owlegrad]

As a dad joke, that’s actually pretty great.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

My experience with discussions of members being banned is that it is difficult to participate in them in good faith. But I will try in this case since you asked.

The member had several warnings over multiple years about their posts. In this case it was the repeated use of the phrase “Christian Taliban”, which regardless of how you want to frame it, is meant to be inflammatory/insulting. We removed one of the posts but not the other (I don’t know why, probably human error).

It’s funny because my politics closely aligns with the views being expressed so this certainly was not politically motivated. It was a long history of the user pushing the bounds and stepping way over them. This isn’t the forum for that.

I think it’s pretty well known that we have a returned banned member posting right now. I don’t go out of my way to ban people. I like having an active forum and I like hearing different opinions. But when people are posting things like “Christian Taliban” that is going to far. And I have never banned a long term member for a single post. And I have never banned a returned member if they follow the TOS and contribute positively following their return.

Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffft.

I hate how this board is moderated so much.

 

[lord999]

You paged California? lol, just kidding, not really.

Serious question though, CA aside, what other states have, or are expressly planning, legislation refusing to both cooperate with out-of-state attempts to discipline licenses over abortion, and refusing to take reciprocal action on licensees being disciplined for out-of-state abortion actions? I've only seen the "west coast wall" in recent news (CA, OR, WA).

Civil liability is nullified and severed as of Friday. Here are the remaining pending laws that will likely be passed within the next 30-60 days:

• AB 1918 creates the California Reproductive Health Service Corps in the Department of Health Care Access and Information. It creates more reproductive health providers by recruiting, training and retaining teams assigned to work in underserved areas. It has passed the Assembly 65-16 and is now in a Senate committee.​

​

• AB 2091 enhances privacy protections for abortion-related medical records and ensures that they cannot be subpoenaed by law enforcement or out-of-state-claims. It has passed the Assembly 54-16 and is pending in the Senate Health Committee.​

​

• AB 2626 protects doctors, midwives, nurse practitioners and physician assistants by preventing professional boards from revoking or suspending a license for providing lawful abortion care in California or in other states. After clearing the Assembly 76-0, it is awaiting action in the Senate Appropriations Committee.​

​

• AB 2134 establishes the California Reproductive Health Equity Program to provide state-paid abortion and contraception coverage for those who seek care in California and whose household income is at or below 400% of federal poverty level. It passed the Assembly 53-19 and is pending in the Senate Judiciary Committee.​

​

• SB 1142 creates a “one-stop shop” internet webpage under California’s Department of Health and Human Services that features links for abortion care, post-operation resources, abortion financial support services and health care service resources. After passing the Senate 29-9, the bill awaits action in an Assembly committee.​

​

• AB 2223 would ensure that no one in the state will be investigated, prosecuted or incarcerated for ending a pregnancy or experiencing pregnancy loss. The bill passed the Assembly 48-21 and is pending in the Senate Health Committee.​

​

• SB 1375 would allow nurse practitioners to more easily work independently of a doctor and perform abortions. Passing the Senate 30-9, it now waits in the Assembly Appropriations Committee.​

​

​

I'm looking for similar protections discussed in AB 2626 above applied to pharmacists specifically, but did not find any yet.

The People's Republic of Minnesota never fails to deliver.

With just 8 abortion clinics, Minnesota may struggle to meet out-of-state demand

With the Supreme Court overturning Roe v. Wade, Minnesota will be one of the states where abortion remains legally protected. But legal doesn't necessarily mean accessible, advocates warn.

www.npr.org

We're going to be a medical destination for our neighboring states (not that I disagree, I'd rather get care at UMN or Mayo than anywhere else in the Midwest).

But in practice, the regions of the state that are anti-abortion will get their wish, the providers are mostly in city areas.

And the perjorative naming of Minnesota isn't because I oppose this at all, it's frustration that MN has to be the responsible party every single time when our neighboring states (WI in particular) disavow their governing responsibilities to their people knowing that MN and IL will cover for them.

And the number for the CA, 1666? Unfortunate one for the devil. How inconvenient!

I'm happy to live in a state where we're responsible for all of its citizens than a place that is good for me but not for thee. I came from an area in Phoenix where girls had long Mexican vacations for health reasons if you get the drift.

 

[Dred Pirate]

The People's Republic of Minnesota never fails to deliver.

With just 8 abortion clinics, Minnesota may struggle to meet out-of-state demand

With the Supreme Court overturning Roe v. Wade, Minnesota will be one of the states where abortion remains legally protected. But legal doesn't necessarily mean accessible, advocates warn.

www.npr.org

We're going to be a medical destination for our neighboring states (not that I disagree, I'd rather get care at UMN or Mayo than anywhere else in the Midwest).

But in practice, the regions of the state that are anti-abortion will get their wish, the providers are mostly in city areas.

And the perjorative naming of Minnesota isn't because I oppose this at all, it's frustration that MN has to be the responsible party every single time when our neighboring states (WI in particular) disavow their governing responsibilities to their people knowing that MN and IL will cover for them.

And the number for the CA, 1666? Unfortunate one for the devil. How inconvenient!

I'm happy to live in a state where we're responsible for all of its citizens than a place that is good for me but not for thee. I came from an area in Phoenix where girls had long Mexican vacations for health reasons if you get the drift.

ya - my home state of iowa used to be a true purple state-full of reasonable people with a highly rated school system, but due to brain drain it is becoming the alabama of the midwest

 

[confettiflyer]

Yeah, and it’s not hard to circumvent a ban, either. I’ve been banned on other, random forums before. I think it’s more symbolic, but it does make me wonder if my previous warnings (very remote and long ago, mostly profanity) mean I’m just one post away from having to register “confettiflyer_06272022” and change the date as a username on a daily basis, hahaha.

 

[steveysmith54]

anyone know why BMBiology was banned? I thought he was new school warrior, like a lot of us…

 

[Sparda29]

My experience with discussions of members being banned is that it is difficult to participate in them in good faith. But I will try in this case since you asked.

The member had several warnings over multiple years about their posts. In this case it was the repeated use of the phrase “Christian Taliban”, which regardless of how you want to frame it, is meant to be inflammatory/insulting. We removed one of the posts but not the other (I don’t know why, probably human error).

It’s funny because my politics closely aligns with the views being expressed so this certainly was not politically motivated. It was a long history of the user pushing the bounds and stepping way over them. This isn’t the forum for that.

I think it’s pretty well known that we have a returned banned member posting right now. I don’t go out of my way to ban people. I like having an active forum and I like hearing different opinions. But when people are posting things like “Christian Taliban” that is going too far. And I have never banned a long term member for a single post. And I have never banned a returned member if they follow the TOS and contribute positively following their return.

How is American or Christian Taliban offensive? The point is that there isn't a difference between extremist Muslims or extremist Christians other than the religion.

The first time I ever heard that term used was on an HBO show called "The Newsroom" when the main character was highlighting the difference between Republicans and the Tea Party.

 

[owlegrad]

How is American or Christian Taliban offensive? The point is that there isn't a difference between extremist Muslims or extremist Christians other than the religion.

The first time I ever heard that term used was on an HBO show called "The Newsroom" when the main character was highlighting the difference between Republicans and the Tea Party.

Out of curiosity, what would you consider offensive?

As for me, I am an atheist and a leftist. I doubt there is anyone on staff more sympathetic to your position than me. And even I see “Christian Taliban” as offensive. I don’t even know how to engage in a discussion on if that should be considered offensive. The entire point of repeatedly using the term has to be to offend, as far as I am able to tell.