Afraid of applying DO bc of residency

[FreeRadicals]

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I'm afraid to apply DO because I really do not want to be stuck with primary care. (Aiming for anesthesiology, radiology, general surgery.) I am looking at faculty list of hospitals near me (New York) and out of 63 radiologist at a hospital only 4 are DO's. Is it really that hard to match at "higher" tier residencies? Even with a high step 1 score?

 

[Butters Stotch]

Anything is possible if you want it bad enough; DO or MD no one is just going to hand you a residency

 

[Ho0v-man]

I'm afraid to apply DO because I really do not want to be stuck with primary care. (Aiming for anesthesiology, radiology, general surgery.) I am looking at faculty list of hospitals near me (New York) and out of 63 radiologist at a hospital only 4 are DO's. Is it really that hard to match at "higher" tier residencies? Even with a high step 1 score?

Yes it is harder. Don’t apply DO if you’re not okay with primary care. It can be done, but if you want a “higher” tier residency in a competitive specialty you should go to a “higher” tier med school. However, if you’re considering DO, you’re likely not a “higher” tier applicant so what choice do you have?

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Then don't apply to DO. It's not that hard.

It's always fun seeing premeds whose stats don't get them into MD schools be so concerned with not getting into a high tier residency as if they were the type that could even get step score high enough to be competiive

 

[Butters Stotch]

Then don't apply to DO. It's not that hard.

It's always fun seeing premeds whose stats don't get them into MD schools be so concerned with not getting into a high tier residency as if they were the type that could even get step score high enough to be competiive

A lot of us millennials want everything given to us; however this pre med process is a good tool to realize that we aren’t just special little snowflakes and nobody is just going to roll over and beg you to take their spot

 

[dial1010usa]

Beggars can't be choosers. It all depends on your c/sGPA and MCAT to get into MD/DO. That's the first step then how you score on your step1/2. Its like a ladder and you haven't even reached at first step yet.
All the best!

 

[Rogue42]

Then don't apply to DO. It's not that hard.

It's always fun seeing premeds whose stats don't get them into MD schools be so concerned with not getting into a high tier residency as if they were the type that could even get step score high enough to be competiive

You really don't know what the situation is with 99% of people who enroll DO. This post does not even account for major life events or change in career. Cause does not equal correlation.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Pretty sure he is in DO school and knows about people who enroll in DO schools.

You really don't know what the situation is with 99% of people who enroll DO. This post does not even account for major life events or change in career. Cause does not equal correlation.

 

[SpartanWolverine]

I'm afraid to apply DO because I really do not want to be stuck with primary care. (Aiming for anesthesiology, radiology, general surgery.) I am looking at faculty list of hospitals near me (New York) and out of 63 radiologist at a hospital only 4 are DO's. Is it really that hard to match at "higher" tier residencies? Even with a high step 1 score?

1) Agree with above advice (gist: take it one step at a time).
2) Being a DO does not inherently relegate you to primary care. Being an applicant with subpar qualifications does (or, shockingly, having an interest in primary care which many DO students do).
3) Anesthesia and radiology are readily available if you're modestly competitive within the pool of applicants. Top tier programs are an uphill battle.
4) Gen surg is, however, unusually hard as a DO.

 

[Goro]

I'm afraid to apply DO because I really do not want to be stuck with primary care. (Aiming for anesthesiology, radiology, general surgery.) I am looking at faculty list of hospitals near me (New York) and out of 63 radiologist at a hospital only 4 are DO's. Is it really that hard to match at "higher" tier residencies? Even with a high step 1 score?

About 50% of my grads go into Primary Care. The % is even higher at the older DO schools, like CCOM and PCOM. BUT, gas, rads, IM, PM&R, Path, Neurology, and Psych and EM are very DO-friendly. Gen Surg? You're going to have to work for it.

If you're boning for the MD, aceing a SMP or post-bac and MCAT are in order.

 

[Ho0v-man]

You really don't know what the situation is with 99% of people who enroll DO.

But somehow you are familiar with them? Not trying to argue, but it’s common sense that if you want to train at the tippity top it’s foolish to start at the bottom. A lot of DO students were fed lies about how DO discrimination isn’t real so we’re just trying to be honest.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

You really don't know what the situation is with 99% of people who enroll DO. This post does not even account for major life events or change in career. Cause does not equal correlation.

Considering I actually got in and finished DO school, I know a lot more than you.

This is the pre-DO forum. It's not the nontraditional forum. It's laughable if you think 99% of DO students are products of major life events or career changes.

 

[el_duderino]

I mean, would you rather just not be a physician at all? That’s kind of th scenario.

 

[Moose A Moose]

OP. Stop being a chump. Any of those specialties you listed are viable as a successful, motivated DO student.

As an aside, those three specialties are night and day from one another. You may want to start doing your homework, and I don’t want to hear about how you shadowed one for a couple hours on a Thursday afternoon.

 

[Rogue42]

But somehow you are familiar with them? Not trying to argue, but it’s common sense that if you want to train at the tippity top it’s foolish to start at the bottom. A lot of DO students were fed lies about how DO discrimination isn’t real so we’re just trying to be honest.

No, I agree with this. But saying that having lower stats in undergrad automatically means that an applicant will not be able to score well on the COMPLEX or USMLE is simply not true. That's my point.

 

[Rogue42]

Considering I actually got in and finished DO school, I know a lot more than you.

This is the pre-DO forum. It's not the nontraditional forum. It's laughable if you think 99% of DO students are products of major life events or career changes.

No, absolutely agree with you. I did not state that 99% are products of that - simply saying that you simply cannot know the background and reasoning behind why 99% of people who attended DO school took that route. My point is that just because a DO student may have lower stats than acceptable for MD school does not mean that an applicant cannot overcome that and score well on the USMLE or COMPLEX. It's equivalent to saying that a high schooler with a low gpa and low ACT/SAT simply could not do well in college and excel on the MCAT.

 

[SpartanWolverine]

No, I agree with this. But saying that having lower stats in undergrad automatically means that an applicant will not be able to score well on the COMPLEX or USMLE is simply not true. That's my point.

Sure, there are reasons why one might have lower stats in undergrad and still do well on standardized testing like the MCAT (high MCAT scores are typically reflective of the resources an individual has to put towards preparation). Some schools will take a chance on those people with well-explained discrepancies but demonstrated improvement. And yes, it's possible to go from being below average in several domains (e.g., low college GPA and mediocre MCAT) to excelling in medical school and on board exams. Just not statistically likely, and it's a gamble many schools are not willing to take with how large the applicant pool is.

P.S. - no "P" in "COMLEX".

 

[Rogue42]

Sure, there are reasons why one might have lower stats in undergrad and still do well on standardized testing like the MCAT (high MCAT scores are typically reflective of the resources an individual has to put towards preparation). Some schools will take a chance on those people with well-explained discrepancies but demonstrated improvement. And yes, it's possible to go from being below average in several domains (e.g., low college GPA and mediocre MCAT) to excelling in medical school and on board exams. Just not statistically likely, and it's a gamble many schools are not willing to take with how large the applicant pool is.

P.S. - no "P" in "COMLEX".

Wow my reading comprehension must be garbage because i have always read it as "COMPLEX"

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

No, absolutely agree with you. I did not state that 99% are products of that - simply saying that you simply cannot know the background and reasoning behind why 99% of people who attended DO school took that route. My point is that just because a DO student may have lower stats than acceptable for MD school does not mean that an applicant cannot overcome that and score well on the USMLE or COMPLEX. It's equivalent to saying that a high schooler with a low gpa and low ACT/SAT simply could not do well in college and excel on the MCAT.

COMLEX

There are times when people do overcome the odds, but if you look at the data of students taking the USMLE at DO schools, they tend to average lower than most MD schools out there. Mind you that a good percentage don't even take the USMLE due to fear of failing. My experience is that the majority of people that scored in the 80th percentile that enters them into the "high tier" category are generally people that turned down MD seats or that the verbal section killed their scores.

If your argument is that exceptions exist, that's a very shallow argument. I don't know of anyone that doesn't believe exceptions exist. I do know of hundreds of premeds that think as soon as they walk into DO school they'll get a 290 and then have reality face them. When people discuss things, they speak of generalities, and if you get into medical school, you better be comfortable with generalities or you'll think every case coming through your door is a rare zebra.

 

[fantasticman221]

COMLEX

There are times when people do overcome the odds, but if you look at the data of students taking the USMLE at DO schools, they tend to average lower than most MD schools out there. Mind you that a good percentage don't even take the USMLE due to fear of failing. My experience is that the majority of people that scored in the 80th percentile that enters them into the "high tier" category are generally people that turned down MD seats or that the verbal section killed their scores.

If your argument is that exceptions exist, that's a very shallow argument. I don't know of anyone that doesn't believe exceptions exist. I do know of hundreds of premeds that think as soon as they walk into DO school they'll get a 290 and then have reality face them. When people discuss things, they speak of generalities, and if you get into medical school, you better be comfortable with generalities or you'll think every case coming through your door is a rare zebra.

What MCAT score and GPA do you think indicate that someone has the chance of doing well on USMLE?

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

I'm afraid to apply DO because I really do not want to be stuck with primary care. (Aiming for anesthesiology, radiology, general surgery.) I am looking at faculty list of hospitals near me (New York) and out of 63 radiologist at a hospital only 4 are DO's. Is it really that hard to match at "higher" tier residencies? Even with a high step 1 score?

Higher tiers at those three specialties are impossible unless you score at least 250s on your USMLE.

Around the USMLE at 228-229 + or minus 5 pts can certainly get you in somewhere assuming that you apply broadly and impress on your away rotations. Of the listed specialties, the one with the most DO bias is probably General Surgery.

However, let me warn you that if you’re a US MD and score 195-208 on your USMLEs, you better be comfortable with checking urine dipsticks, managing HTN, and doing wellness checkups for life.

It’s up to you. I’m at a more established DO, where the curriculum isn’t friendly toward high board scores. Of our entire class, about 60-80% students take the USMLE. Of the ones that take the USMLE, about 10-20% of them fail the USMLE, w/ the USMLE class average around 214-218.

 

[FreeRadicals]

Then don't apply to DO. It's not that hard.

It's always fun seeing premeds whose stats don't get them into MD schools be so concerned with not getting into a high tier residency as if they were the type that could even get step score high enough to be competiive

Just because a pre-meds UG scores aren't high, doesn't mean he or she can't achieve a high step score. UG is not smooth sailing for everyone, which is why we call it life.

 

[FreeRadicals]

Then don't apply to DO. It's not that hard.

It's always fun seeing premeds whose stats don't get them into MD schools be so concerned with not getting into a high tier residency as if they were the type that could even get step score high enough to be competiive

Ahh I realize why you said this now. You are a DO and simply butt-hurt. Sad to see this.

 

[FreeRadicals]

OP. Stop being a chump. Any of those specialties you listed are viable as a successful, motivated DO student.

As an aside, those three specialties are night and day from one another. You may want to start doing your homework, and I don’t want to hear about how you shadowed one for a couple hours on a Thursday afternoon.

I know these specialties are all different - I was just giving examples. Also, yes I agree each of them are VIABLE, but way more difficult to ATTAIN for a DO, compared to a MD.

 

[Oso]

Do you have the stats for MD? If so, apply MD.

If you're on the fence, then you can apply to both and see what happens.

If you don't have the stats for MD but want to apply now, then what choice do you have but to apply DO?

 

[FreeRadicals]

No, I agree with this. But saying that having lower stats in undergrad automatically means that an applicant will not be able to score well on the COMPLEX or USMLE is simply not true. That's my point.

I agree, the past does not predict the future.

 

[FreeRadicals]

Do you have the stats for MD? If so, apply MD.

If you're on the fence, then you can apply to both and see what happens.

If you don't have the stats for MD but want to apply now, then what choice do you have but to apply DO?

Trying to figure out if its worth it to take a gap year. I don't want to end up getting DO acceptance and turn them down solely because of the bias on residencies.

 

[FreeRadicals]

This thread is making me realize that applying DO is like cutting your chances (in terms of residencies). Likewise with doing 7 year BS/DO programs (limiting yourself to one DO school).

 

[Oso]

Trying to figure out if its worth it to take a gap year. I don't want to end up getting DO acceptance and turn them down solely because of the bias on residencies.

Uh... if you're not sure you would actually take a DO acceptance then don't waste your time applying.

If you're really that worried about residency, then take the extra time to become competitive for MD schools. 1 year is nothing. Especially if it means not spending the rest of your life wondering "what if".

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

Trying to figure out if its worth it to take a gap year. I don't want to end up getting DO acceptance and turn them down solely because of the bias on residencies.

I'm a DO.

But, I'm going to be honest with you. Take a gap year to improve your deficiencies, whether it's a low MCAT, gpa, research, ECs, or whatever.

If you don't get any IIs from MDs by Dec, you can start applying to DOs after Dec.

Good luck.

There's a lot of bs in the DO education. It's not worth it.

 

[ciestar]

Trying to figure out if its worth it to take a gap year. I don't want to end up getting DO acceptance and turn them down solely because of the bias on residencies.

Highly recommend against turning down an acceptance. If you don’t wanna do DO, don’t apply DO.

 

[FreeRadicals]

I'm a DO.

But, I'm going to be honest with you. Take a gap year to improve your deficiencies, whether it's a low MCAT, gpa, research, ECs, or whatever.

If you don't get any IIs from MDs by Dec, you can start applying to DOs after Dec.

Good luck.

There's a lot of bs in the DO education. It's not worth it.

Thanks for your honesty!

 

[FreeRadicals]

Highly recommend against turning down an acceptance. If you don’t wanna do DO, don’t apply DO.

Thanks for the advice.