Afraid of not finding a job

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I'm sort of in the same spot. Had an internship at a grocery chain for 2 years but they didnt hire me as a pharmacists. Then had an internship with an MTM company for the past year know the president and many people there, but they haven't guaranteed a spot for me just said "we have you in the pipeline and are keeping your timeline in mind". Anyways that scared the **** out of me and now I'm scrambling applied to Walgreens online. Let my friends working at CVS and RiteAid know to let their DM's know.

What state?

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Geez, is it really coming to this? People are actually comparing BFE town vs. BFE town to see which one is the least miserable to start a new life in?

To be fair though, those that got good jobs in the city probably dont spend all their time on sdn +pity+
 
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Are IHS jobs easy to get? I feel like they would be competitive for the govt benefits...

I'm not sure what your definition of easy is, but it is definitely possible to get a job if you're willing to go where they have hard to fill spots. Even with the govt benefits, folks aren't running over each other to go work in Pine Ridge, SD.
 
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To be fair though, those that got good jobs in the city probably dont spend all their time on sdn +pity+

And what about those who didn't spend all their time on SDN and yet still didn't manage to get jobs in the city (or possibly any job at all), which happens to be the demographic group that the majority of pharmacy school graduates are now falling under?
 
I'm not sure what your definition of easy is, but it is definitely possible to get a job if you're willing to go where they have hard to fill spots. Even with the govt benefits, folks aren't running over each other to go work in Pine Ridge, SD.

Those IHS jobs always sounded so fun, but like you said.. they are just in places where you'd never want to live.
 
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Those IHS jobs always sounded so fun, but like you said.. they are just in places where you'd never want to live.

I really enjoyed my IHS rotation in Whitetiver, AZ. Beautiful area of AZ, imo. Going through pharmacy school, I strongly considered IHS as an option and almost applied but my wife could never find a job in the areas where IHS facilities are located.

I was lucky and graduated in 2011 and through networking, landed great positions since graduating. But if I was in the OP's shoes or current graduates shoes with no partner/kids, and had been looking and looking to no avail, I would definitely consider the IHS.
Try to get loan reimbursement site and hopefully a site that is not too desolate but even if it is, you are still getting valuable experience, paycheck, any state license works, loan reimbursement and doing some clinical work too. After a couple years you can look at job market again as a pharmacist applying with 2 years experience.
 
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I really enjoyed my IHS rotation in Whitetiver, AZ. Beautiful area of AZ, imo. Going through pharmacy school, I strongly considered IHS as an option and almost applied but my wife could never find a job in the areas where IHS facilities are located.

I was lucky and graduated in 2011 and through networking, landed great positions since graduating. But if I was in the OP's shoes or current graduates shoes with no partner/kids, and had been looking and looking to no avail, I would definitely consider the IHS.
Try to get loan reimbursement site and hopefully a site that is not too desolate but even if it is, you are still getting valuable experience, paycheck, any state license works, loan reimbursement and doing some clinical work too. After a couple years you can look at job market again as a pharmacist applying with 2 years experience.

Even IHS is very competitive. Maybe some of the more really really remote areas are still up for grabs.
 
Tri-State. Grocery store chain was in PA, and the MTM company is in NJ

Yea the Tri-state area is super saturated....good luck to you...god speed to these new grads.
 
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But if I was in the OP's shoes or current graduates shoes with no partner/kids, and had been looking and looking to no avail, I would definitely consider the IHS.

Honestly I should have done this instead of taking a job in BFE...if location is gonna suck anyways at least working for the IHS would set your future up better (+ fed benefits!)
 
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Tri-State. Grocery store chain was in PA, and the MTM company is in NJ
Oh hey my home is in that area too. I'm still in pharmacy school tho which is bad based on this topic
 
I'd be okay with living in BFE...as long as there's good internet
 
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I got an offer from Rite Aid, Safeway, and CVS. I don't want to choose CVS. Do you guys know which is better between Rite Aid and Safeway?
 
I'm not above saying that I made a mistake and I regret it. I had a dream last night that I was in dental school; waking up sucked. I wonder how long it will take for other pharmacy students to start withdrawing from their programs to pursue other ventures.

Incoming first year dental student here - dental is having its own troubles; exponentially rising student debt, new schools opening, corporate expanding.

I was chatting with a student tonight who is looking at $600,000 minimum for dental school (after accounting for interest & tuition increases).
 
Incoming first year dental student here - dental is having its own troubles; exponentially rising student debt, new schools opening, corporate expanding.

I was chatting with a student tonight who is looking at $600,000 minimum for dental school (after accounting for interest & tuition increases).

What school costs 600k to attend? That is absurd.
 
I would hope working as a dentist one would be capable of paying off 200-300k in 3-4 years (regardless of whether one should)
 
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What school costs 600k to attend? That is absurd.

Check out NYU College of Dentistry's cost of attendance.

First year: $121,240
Second year: $126,208
Third year: $127,870
Fourth year: $122,866

Total: $498,184.

This is BEFORE annual tuition increases and interest. So it'll easily exceed $600K when all is said and done.

I would hope working as a dentist one would be capable of paying off 200-300k in 3-4 years (regardless of whether one should)

$200K in 4 years is doable if you hustle, especially if you can get some NHSC loan repayment funding.

$300K is harder - some dentists can make it happen, but for others it's too much of a stretch.
 
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Check out NYU College of Dentistry's cost of attendance.

First year: $121,240
Second year: $126,208
Third year: $127,870
Fourth year: $122,866

Total: $498,184.

This is BEFORE annual tuition increases and interest. So it'll easily exceed $600K when all is said and done.



$200K in 4 years is doable if you hustle, especially if you can get some NHSC loan repayment funding.

$300K is harder - some dentists can make it happen, but for others it's too much of a stretch.

The tuition prices are definitely insane, but what about specializing? If someone completes a residency and has a median annual income potential of $400k+, that makes it a lot easier to pay off the loans.
 
Thanks Captain obvious.

No problem. You know what isn't so obvious to most people? The fact that pharmacy is the only field in healthcare in which completing a residency leads to a job that usually pays a LOWER salary as compared to the jobs pharmacists (those who aren't facing unemployment, at least) get who don't complete a residency. More training = less money... who would find that to be obvious?
 
I guess that proximity to the beach is an upside, but on a day-to-day basis, it still means having virtually nothing to do. Even if it turns out that I just love pharmacy work, I can't imagine having that lifestyle (or lack thereof). I don't need trendy downtown nightclubs to enjoy myself, but having absolutely nothing going on is not something I can handle.

It strikes me as odd that OP is painting a very grim picture about his/her uncertain future while simultaneously turning his/her nose up at the prospect of having to relocate to a less densely populated community (that is within 30 mins of the most beautiful beaches in the US) for a few years in order to become more financially independent & gain experience that could lead to a better job in the near future.

Sounds like someone is experiencing reality for the first time.
 
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It strikes me as odd that OP is painting a very grim picture about his/her uncertain future while simultaneously turning his/her nose up at the prospect of having to relocate to a less densely populated community (that is within 30 mins of the most beautiful beaches in the US) for a few years in order to become more financially independent & gain experience that could lead to a better job in the near future.

Sounds like someone is experiencing reality for the first time.

Uh, first of all, I'm not the OP. Believe it or not, I'm not the only person who thinks the job market sucks and is going to get worse. How does not wanting to relocate to the middle of nowhere mean I am "experiencing reality for the first time?" So having to relocate to BFE in order to find a job because the job market is being saturated is a normal aspect of any profession? In other words, that's normal? What about the doctors, dentists, PAs/NPs, and other professionals who don't have to relocate to BFE to find a job? Are they just lucky?
 
The sky isn't falling because you interned somewhere and didn't get a job offer. I feel like some of you guys in this thread are hitting the panic button because you assumed you'd get an offer, probably got complacent, stopped grinding, and now have been rudely awakened. It's only April take a deep breath and maybe take a break from the doom and gloom of sdn. I'm not going to blow smoke up your ass and tell you the job market is great, but you can't do anything about it so there's no reason to dwell. You're going to have to compete for a job, that's life. There's a quote I love "I may not be #1 but every day when i get up i wanna chase the dude who is" (Eric Thomas give him a listen) maybe I'm just young and naive but its difficult to be unsuccessful if you wake up every day with that attitude. /endrant
 
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Uh, first of all, I'm not the OP. Believe it or not, I'm not the only person who thinks the job market sucks and is going to get worse. How does not wanting to relocate to the middle of nowhere mean I am "experiencing reality for the first time?" So having to relocate to BFE in order to find a job because the job market is being saturated is a normal aspect of any profession? In other words, that's normal? What about the doctors, dentists, PAs/NPs, and other professionals who don't have to relocate to BFE to find a job? Are they just lucky?

I meant that you're getting a dose of reality because in the real world, just because you are qualified for a job does not mean you will get the exact job you want in the exact type of area you may want. Doctors (and even then really only primary care docs) are the only profession I am aware of where a new grad with zero experience can still go and get a job anywhere in the US. Go check out the pathology or anesthesiology forums if you believe the grass is greener over there.

All other professionals have to network and potentially relocate or work an undesirable position for a few years to pay their debts off and build an experience base. I've watched my engineering friends move around multiple times during their first 2-3 years postgrad before landing a job they liked in an area they could tolerate. Tightening job prospects are not exclusive to pharmacy.

If you wanted to be handed a job in a desirable city, you should have went to medical school to be a family medicine doctor. But then again, I will be told by a computer program where I will be doing my residency for three years and there's a good chance it will be in BFE so idk if you could tolerate the thought of that.
 
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The tuition prices are definitely insane, but what about specializing? If someone completes a residency and has a median annual income potential of $400k+, that makes it a lot easier to pay off the loans.

Specialty programs cost more $$ - with the exception of perhaps Pediatric Dentistry. Most aren't GME-funded. Imagine having $600K in loans and taking out $200K+ more for an Endodontics (root canal specialist) residency.

Furthermore, more general dentists are keeping cases "in-house" as reimbursements decline...i.e. they are referring less to specialists.
 
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Does PAtoPharm think people want his advice?
 
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I actually think there was an article out there that PGY2 graduates make more over their career than non residency or PGY2 residency graduates. I'm too lazy to look it up but I believe it was posted on this forum.

Yeah, and at that point, it makes far more sense to spend one additional year in a primary care residency (as a medical school graduate) and come out of the residency program making $180k-$210k with more vacation, better benefits, and 100x better job prospects. It just makes zero sense to spend that much time in school and residency to go into a profession like pharmacy, especially since many residency graduates are going to end up working as standard hospital staff pharmacists for $90k-$100k anyways. If you're going to spend that many years in school/residency, go to medical school. It is literally a much better use of time, money, and effort.
 
Talking in circles. Yawn.

So it is talking in circles to say that spending ONE MORE YEAR IN RESIDENCY as a primary care MD/DO resident is a better use of someone's time than spending 2/3 of that amount of time completing a pharmacy residency, even though the pharmacy residency will lead to 1/2 the earning potential and much worse job prospects? If that's what you think, then you're like wagrxm2000 -- you're simply so eager to defend the field that you're incapable of acknowledging that there are legitimate, objective issues in the pharmacy field. It's laughable; many of the hospitals that bring in 12-15 residents per year don't even hire their residents. Do you think there are hospitals out there that don't hire surgeons, FP docs, pediatricians, etc. because they can save money by only hiring residents? Pharmacy is in its own world of hurt and shame and you just don't want to admit it.
 
I am impressed actually. How many ways are there to say the same thing?

Ok, prove me wrong. So all pharmacists who are graduating from residency programs are finding jobs in their "specialties" and aren't dealing with the issues I've discussed?

At the very least, the issues that are making pharmacy a pathetic, laughable career choice will provide fodder for an effective PA school admissions application (and that's without even mentioning the job market issues).
 
Ok, prove me wrong. So all pharmacists who are graduating from residency programs are finding jobs in their "specialties" and aren't dealing with the issues I've discussed?

Can you find me one post anywhere in this forum that disagrees with you about the pharmacists job market? Literally even just one? You are preaching to the choir. When you wanted career advice how many posters on here warned you to stay away from pharmacy? Sorry you have come to regret your choice and I wish you nothing but happiness for your future, wether that be pharmacy or elsewhere.

It is adorable that a pharmacy student, first year at that, thinks real pharmacists need to be told about the job market though. Perhaps you should restrict yourself to pre-pharmacy and warning people before they get into pharmacy school?
 
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I meant that you're getting a dose of reality because in the real world, just because you are qualified for a job does not mean you will get the exact job you want in the exact type of area you may want. Doctors (and even then really only primary care docs) are the only profession I am aware of where a new grad with zero experience can still go and get a job anywhere in the US. Go check out the pathology or anesthesiology forums if you believe the grass is greener over there.

All other professionals have to network and potentially relocate or work an undesirable position for a few years to pay their debts off and build an experience base. I've watched my engineering friends move around multiple times during their first 2-3 years postgrad before landing a job they liked in an area they could tolerate. Tightening job prospects are not exclusive to pharmacy.

If you wanted to be handed a job in a desirable city, you should have went to medical school to be a family medicine doctor. But then again, I will be told by a computer program where I will be doing my residency for three years and there's a good chance it will be in BFE so idk if you could tolerate the thought of that.

I think you're missing the point here. You seem to be characterizing the issue of having to move to BFE to find a job in pharmacy to be an indication that pharmacy has the usual job market "contingencies" as most other professions (I.e., the examples of engineering that you mentioned). However, the job market in pharmacy isn't just a little tight in the sense that most professions' job markets will vacillate every few years -- the profession is literally on track to graduating anywhere from 60,000 to 80,000 more pharmacists than there will be jobs, depending on which source you're looking at (I.e., HRSA vs. BLS). Wanting to be "handed a job in a desirable city" is not the issue here; it's more like a question of, does someone really want to do pharmacy badly enough to work in the few BFE towns that will actually have jobs in the next few years?

Even the job market data calculated by the ACPE's propaganda wing, which is often referred to as "skewed" simply because it is in their best interests to portray the job market in a favorable light, shows that it is not individual cities here and there that are becoming saturated, but entire states. As of their most recently published data, the entire states of GA, SC, NC, TN, and FL are saturated, and every 6-8 months, more states become saturated. If the job market issue was as benign as not being able to work in insert-big-city-name-here immediately after graduation, then it would be a different story. But in the case of pharmacy, what it comes down to is a matter of whether someone is willing to work in the BFE wastelands that might still have jobs as more and more classes graduate over the next few years. I understand that there are some people out there who are passionate enough about pharmacy that they're willing to stoop to these lows, but I'm not one of them.
 
many residency graduates are going to end up working as standard hospital staff pharmacists for $90k-$100k anyways. If you're going to spend that many years in school/residency, go to medical school. It is literally a much better use of time, money, and effort.

Honestly though, a $90-100K/yr gig out of residency is not bad at all!
 
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Can you find me one post anywhere in this forum that disagrees with you about the pharmacists job market? Literally even just one? You are preaching to the choir. When you wanted career advice how many posters on here warned you to stay away from pharmacy? Sorry you have come to regret your choice and I wish you nothing but happiness for your future, wether that be pharmacy or elsewhere.

It is adorable that a pharmacy student, first year at that, thinks real pharmacists need to be told about the job market though. Perhaps you should restrict yourself to pre-pharmacy and warning people before they get into pharmacy school?

I'm only arguing with people because they argue with me first. For example, wagrxm2000 tells me that "I'm worried about the job market because I don't have a plan" when I remind him that every example of published statistical data shows that there will be an oversupply of at least 60,000 pharmacists soon, even by the most conservative estimates. And to that, I get some off-handed response like, "Did you actually expect me to read that?" What I think is adorable is the fact that there are actually real-life practicing pharmacists out there who let their passion and enjoyment for the profession cloud their ability to objectively assess obvious job market trends.
 
Honestly though, a $90-100K/yr gig out of residency is not bad at all!

I think that what makes a lot of med students frown on being a PCP (from an income perspective, at least) is the fact that there are so-called "mid-level" practitioners out there who earn 2.5-year master's degrees who make that much or close to it. For example, I know for a fact that new CRNA/AA graduates in my area start out at $135k with 6-8 weeks of PTO, and that's for a 40-hour workweek. Taking call pays more. I have been told that surgical PAs also start out at $120k-$130k. So when you compare what a CRNA/AA working 40 hours/week for $135k makes per hour to a PCP who works 60+ hours/week (including call), the CRNA/AA/PA actually earns a higher hourly wage in a lot of scenarios, aside from the fact that most PCP docs don't start at 6 weeks of PTO/year. I know 2 medical students who are gunning for orthopedic surgery and radiology, and when I asked them if they'd consider primary care as a back-up residency choice, they actually said, "if you're going to do a field that pays what they make, you might as well do nursing and then CRNA school." So apparently the mentality is pretty common. I think this is also what is driving a lot of the top pre-med students to apply to dental schools these days (e.g., higher median/average income than PCP docs for only a 40 hour workweek).
 
I'm only arguing with people because they argue with me first. For example, wagrxm2000 tells me that "I'm worried about the job market because I don't have a plan" when I remind him that every example of published statistical data shows that there will be an oversupply of at least 60,000 pharmacists soon, even by the most conservative estimates. And to that, I get some off-handed response like, "Did you actually expect me to read that?" What I think is adorable is the fact that there are actually real-life practicing pharmacists out there who let their passion and enjoyment for the profession cloud their ability to objectively assess obvious job market trends.

I wish my passion and enjoyment would cloud my ability to be objective, that sounds amazing!
 
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I think that what makes a lot of med students frown on being a PCP (from an income perspective, at least) is the fact that there are so-called "mid-level" practitioners out there who earn 2.5-year master's degrees who make that much or close to it. For example, I know for a fact that new CRNA/AA graduates in my area start out at $135k with 6-8 weeks of PTO, and that's for a 40-hour workweek. Taking call pays more. I have been told that surgical PAs also start out at $120k-$130k. So when you compare what a CRNA/AA working 40 hours/week for $135k makes per hour to a PCP who works 60+ hours/week (including call), the CRNA/AA/PA actually earns a higher hourly wage in a lot of scenarios, aside from the fact that most PCP docs don't start at 6 weeks of PTO/year. I know 2 medical students who are gunning for orthopedic surgery and radiology, and when I asked them if they'd consider primary care as a back-up residency choice, they actually said, "if you're going to do a field that pays what they make, you might as well do nursing and then CRNA school." So apparently the mentality is pretty common. I think this is also what is driving a lot of the top pre-med students to apply to dental schools these days (e.g., higher median/average income than PCP docs for only a 40 hour workweek).

Interesting analysis.

Good luck to them with getting 8 weeks PTO as a dentist though. If you're employed for someone else, not likely. Best I've seen is 30 days paid vacation for the military. If you own your own practice....well, do you really want to turn away patients and shut down the office for 8 weeks? What about paying the team members for those 8 weeks so they can afford to keep working for you?
 
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I wish my passion and enjoyment would cloud my ability to be objective, that sounds amazing!

Just ask some of the other members for advice on how they manage to make it happen
 
Interesting analysis.

Good luck to them with getting 8 weeks PTO as a dentist though. If you're employed for someone else, not likely. Best I've seen is 30 days paid vacation for the military. If you own your own practice....well, do you really want to turn away patients and shut down the office for 8 weeks? What about paying the team members for those 8 weeks so they can afford to keep working for you?

Yeah, I think the anesthesia mid-levels (AA/CRNA) are in a pretty unique position when it comes to PTO. Even in more saturated areas, they still get 5-6 weeks off. I guess dentistry still seems like a better deal to a lot of would-be medical students who are apprehensive about the prospect of completing a required residency and pursuing a career that will probably require them to take call every week.
 
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Yeah, I think the anesthesia mid-levels (AA/CRNA) are in a pretty unique position when it comes to PTO. Even in more saturated areas, they still get 5-6 weeks off. I guess dentistry still seems like a better deal to a lot of would-be medical students who are apprehensive about the prospect of completing a required residency and pursuing a career that will probably require them to take call every week.

Oh the profession is awesome. One just needs to figure out a solution to the financials - especially student debt. Figure that out and you'll be golden!
 
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Just ask some of the other members for advice on how they manage to make it happen

The only advice I like to hear on SDN if how bad pharmacy is and what a poor decision it is. Any advice for me there?
 
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The only advice I like to hear on SDN if how bad pharmacy is and what a poor decision it is. Any advice for me there?

Ran into someone going into Pharmacy. She's apparently in a combined undergrad-pharmD program and is just now beginning the Pharm component of her studies. She kept talking about how she's going to make $100K++ in a few years when she finishes school.

I asked her if the saturation worried her at all.

She replied that Pharmacy was an in-demand field and that she'd be fine.
 
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The only advice I like to hear on SDN if how bad pharmacy is and what a poor decision it is. Any advice for me there?

Yes, keep listening to people like myself
 
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Ran into someone going into Pharmacy. She's apparently in a combined undergrad-pharmD program and is just now beginning the Pharm component of her studies. She kept talking about how she's going to make $100K++ in a few years when she finishes school.

I asked her if the saturation worried her at all.

She replied that Pharmacy was an in-demand field and that she'd be fine.

A lot of people are either burying their heads in the sand and refusing to acknowledge the current state and future trajectory of the job market, or they have fallen victim to what many have termed the "Special Snowflake" mentality, where they have convinced themselves that since they are going to work as an intern, get involved in student clubs, and do other things to enhance their resume, they won't be one of the ~30% future unemployed pharmacists, simply because they are going to be one a member of the top echelon of pharmacy graduates, and of course the top graduates in any field will never have any trouble finding a job. Maybe your friend has this mentality, or maybe she's truly oblivious to the current state of affairs, or maybe it's Maybelline.
 
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........ I understand that there are some people out there who are passionate enough about pharmacy that they're willing to stoop to these lows, but I'm not one of them.

Option 1: Getting Into Medical School
Option 2: Supplemental Security Income

I understand the frustrations you are facing, my SO is in pharmacy school currently so we are aware of the numbers being tossed around on this forum. Rather than marinating on here in self loathing either get aggressive about building up your CV or aggressive about changing careers. If you actually enjoy being a pharmacist you will find a way to make it workout if not, see option #2.

//thread
 
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